Topic: [NCES] A fiendish employer with a job of Epic proportions

[Darkforged Dove]

Greater Magic Fang + Permanency

That's a good idea Chloe.

Too bad you didn't join in this game, maybe some other game, or later?

Also, Scrolls of Greater Magic Fang at 20th caster level are also available, and are a trivial cost (seeing as 9th level spells, at 20th caster level are a trivial cost (i.e. under 15k gp); every other spell is also trivial; barring expensive spell components).

It should be noted that Permanency isn't necessarily "permanent"; it's more "spell doesn't have a duration" not "spell lasts forever". Dispel magic can get rid of a Permanency'd effect. So, having a scroll as a back-up is a good idea. If anything, the scrolls can act as a "buffer" against all of your gear being rendered unmagical.

+1 weapons with a minor ability are decent; you can have as many Bane weapons as you can carry (pretty much); and as many +3 armours as you want (yes, barding, some light fort, or ghost touch might be handy for a big target like a dragon; Crepusculous' AC is 44, and her HP is under 300; so she's still hurtable). Remember, the 15k gp limit on trivial stuff means that lots of cheap, but useful things are possible.

Like summoning a squad of giant scorpions; or pulling a wand out of your boot (seriously; nearly any wand, you don't even have to plan it out, just have your lvl 20 spell caster pull out a wand, it's not a big deal and helps with the narrative for your character to not worry about every single minor item they carry).

Rings of feather fall you keep strapped to a bracelet because "you never know" when you might have to fight on a cloud, or the back of a soarwhale, or over a pit of lava; and Ioun Stones become a fashion statement, not an expression of your power (well... unless it's the Orange Spindel, and they're a wizard; then it's an extension of power).

...then we can begin.

Muahahahaha!

Ahem. I mean. Yes, excellent.

[Mindhazingsquid]

So I could have a bunch of deathward wands?  Now you guys don't need to worry about  my breath weapon!
Or would I have to carry around a bajilion scrolls?
Also, would Hoard Gullet (from Dragon Magic) break a bag of holding?  It gives you a magical second stomach that can hold 100 lb and/or 10 cubic feet per level of items.  Up to a maximum or 1000lb and 100 cubic feet.
Also, for the Necklace of Natural Weapons do I need to multiply it by 4 or 6 for the cost?
The enhancement bonuses on this necklace are applied to attack and damage rolls involving one or more of the wearer’s natural weapons.  In addition, any weapon special quality may be applied to this necklace, and the quality then applies to those natural weapons as well. For instance, a +1 throwing returning necklace of natural weapons would apply its enhancement bonus and the throwing and returning special abilities to one or more of the wearer’s natural weapons.
Magic Arms and Armor; Market Price: 600 gp, plus the cost of the enhancement bonuses, multiplied by the number of natural weapons affected. A +1 necklace of natural weapons that affects one natural weapon costs 2,600 gp; if the same necklace affects six natural weapons, it costs 15,600 gp.

[Darkforged Dove]

I'm pretty sure that my character is immune to anything you can throw at him dragon-wise. Breath weapons, AC, attacks, spells, dungeon lairs, minions, draconic presense (fear).

I think that if you were a force dragon, you might give him some trouble; but raw damage is usually is pretty easy to just slide off of.

For your weapons.... I'd just say to simplify it, b/c it's too nitpicky to spend this much time to only give you a +5 to hit/damage on your 5-7 natural attacks.

"You have a bunch* of scrolls of Greater Magic Fang; you can make the caster level checks to cast them on yourself; if you're in a group that has someone you think can cast your scrolls faster, you can give them a scroll and have them buff you up."

*: That is to say, enough, that you don't have to worry about wasting a bunch of scrolls.

Because we can just do that. We're 20th level, a buff like Greater Magic Fang isn't a "massive deal", it's merely a commodity at this point. It can be safely assumed that everyone who wants it, has it.

The wands of Deathward should be trivial as well. ... you give me an idea for a spell to use though, something that just gives undead properties..... it's giving me a bit of a really bastard idea, since I know something that can make "you are an undead" really handy.

Yeah... I wanna get a pair of Life Drinkers in knifey-stabby form. Becuzz, ya' know, I gotta get mah drank on.

They're +1 magic great axes that are 40k normally. I'm sure that smaller Aurorum life-drinker daggers are fine. I've got 3 more 50k gp slots to fill though..

[kongming]

Yeah, you could totally just have X scrolls of Greater Magic Fang (CL 20) and a wand of Deathward to grant your allies immunity to your breath weapon. That's a lot cheaper than a necklace with a multiplying cost.

And yeah, I think there's also a spell that makes the target count as an undead, so if you could cast that on your allies (or they cast it themselves) then you can breath weapon everyone and enemies gain negative levels, allies get healed.

[Mindhazingsquid]

I'm feeling a little overwhelmed.  We have too much money.  Hah  I honestly can't figure out what items to get past what I already have.

I thought there was a cloak that granted energy resistance all?

Since Greater Magic Fang is per hour can we just presume that it's going unless we camp for a night then?  To get +5 I need to cast it on each limb?  Or, I guess claws and wings work as a 'set' and so only need one casting total?

These are my items so far.

Ring of Chameleon Power:+10 hide as free action, standard action use disguise self (12K)
Ring of Spell Battle:If a spell is cast within 60' wearer is informed and can make a dc15+spell level spellcraft check to ID the spell even if it can't be seen.  If spell is IDed wearer can (1/day) choose to have the ring cast dispell magic as a counterspell to that spell or change the target within 60' of the wearer (even if wearer has no counterspell ready).  If target is illegal (ie out of the spells range) it works normally and the redirect is wasted. (67.6k)
Heavy Gemstone of Fortification:100% crit/sneak attack immunity (35k)
Impervious Vestment: +5 armour bonus, 1/day 20 feet high, 90 feet diameter, centered on caster 18 minute or until dismissed blade barrier  (34k)
(3) Rod of Metabreath (Highten Breath) (25k)
Silver Claws +1 Spellstoring
Iron Claws +1 Spellstoring
Adamantine Fangs +1 spellstoring
Gorget of Tempest Breath:When you use your breath weapon, in addition to its normal effects, creatures in the area are affected as through struck by wind effects. The force of the wind depends on your size, as indicated below. For the effects of high winds, see Table 3–24 on page 95 of the Dungeon Master’s Guide.(10k)
Belt of Hidden Pouches:Hidden inside this belt are ten small pockets, each of which seems big enough to hold only a few coins. Each pocket actually functions as a small bag of hold­ing and can hold up to 1/2 cubic foot or 5 pounds of nonliving matter. No object with any dimension exceeding 6 inches can be placed in a pocket. Anything placed inside a pocket effectively has one-tenth its normal weight, so a full pocket weighs only 1/2 pound at most.  In addition, two secret pockets lie
behind each visible one, for a total of thirty pockets in all. The hidden pockets can be accessed only through a command word.  A true seeing spell reveals the presence of the hidden pockets but not the command word needed to open them. (9k)

[Darkforged Dove]

I wouldn't say we have "too much" money. It's not like you can go choose minor artifacts and add them to your character sheet; and it's not like you can get more than one +10 weapon on any character.

What we have in terms of magic items is:

-A "selection" of real magic items (200k [x1], 100k [x2]; 50k [x5]; 20k [x10]); worth at most 850 gp; and only 1/2 of that is able to be worth over 100k.

-As many "wooden nickels" as you want. At around level 11, any item worth 15k gp is actually what the "noobs" use. Seriously. The stuff worth more than 15k cannot be ever obtained easily.

The good stuff, and why you can't buy it with gold

You can't wish for the good stuff, and no one will make it for love or gold alone. Wizards only really make one item per level that is equal to their caster level, which means that they will be very picky about what it is that they make.

The upshoot of this is that "good stuff" you need to adventure for, and then either trade what you find for stuff that you want, or trade it for currency like trapped souls and the like.

Also, at 20th level you need to get lots of use out of your "big ticket" items, if not they're actually a waste of resources. That's why I went "luls, +6 to all stats belt plz". It saves me not 1, but 5 slots; and costs less than 6, +6 stat items (in terms of both 20k item slots; and in terms of how it allows me to wear a lot more variety of magical items).

Don't sweat the small stuff; grab it all

I'd say to pick up every single "low level" magic item that you see and think of a situation where you might want to use it. You might have made a very sound tactical decision.

Myself, I grabbed some stuff to let me fly in "combat-time" (wands really, several); and in "normal time" (carpet of flying). Stuff to carry supplies and equipment (bags of holding; heward's handy haversack; vest [aka belt] of many pockets); some more random travel things (folding boat; a dozen sets of magical oars; and a bunch of Permantly Shrink Item'd stone destriders with horseshoes of the zephyr. Plus about a dozen or so other random items.

I expect to never use either thing, but given this character's backstory.... well, it never hurts to be prepared. Who knows, maybe I get to stuff a monster with tiny flying stone warhorses, and then jump into the monster's mouth as well, and have all the horses suddenly expand, dealing silly damage... err, I mean exploding the monster from the inside.... that's an idea that I came up with just now actually. I think that I figured out an other way to kill the Tarrasque... maybe).

Remember, we're in the 20th level game here; it's not just about "bigger numbers"; it's seriously also about "playing a game that you never thought of at level 1". You should not only plan for the unexpected, but the impossible.


What level 20 Play "could" look like:

On the topic of high level play, I found something semi-relevant.

Could look like this (skip to 0:45) this. However, this fight looks more like level 10 D&D gameplay. Seriously, melee attacking only adjacent opponents while moving, and slipper of spider climbing (4,800 gp) aren't quite 20th level play.

If the character flew, and was fighting things that were able to kill him by touching him (like, actual Shadows with Strength damage), then the danger/power level is closer to 20th level encounters.

Seriously, high level D&D combat makes anime look mundane and simple. We're talking The Paladins of Charlemagne, Stories of Amber, Cu Cullain, Rostram, Beowulf and Volsung saga levels of badass and danger.

A single fighter against 100 shadows, that's about a 20th level fight (really, a CR 16 fight :S ). A touch AC of 23+, or immunity to ability damage would be two things that would allow a fighter to deal with that sort of fight.

On coated natural weapons:

Just a thought; but if you ever meet any creautre that is weak to any specific one of your attacks; then all of your other attacks will be for naught.

Unless there are some really hot spells that you want to load into your weapons; metalline is a weapon property that you might want to think about. It's a +1 property that makes any weapon count as any other metal.

We probably won't be facing demodands or vampires, so the lack of wood weapons probably isn't a big deal. We can probably just say "lalalala! we steal a tree and carry it with us, then cast GMW to make it a +5 Tree; the dragon can now fuck up some demodands"... having wooden teeth is probably a bad idea.

Crit Immunity:

The fact that everyone here seems to be grabbing crit/precision damage immunity at 35k is probably a good thing. I'm probably going to do something similar.

Other gear/feat choices.

I've also got the feeling that just wearing a plain old "ring of invisibility" might be a good idea for what to wear most of the time. The +40 to hide is handy, and I think that I've got a feat slot empty to put in the one feat that all monsters hate when rogues (or other creatures with 30+ hide modifiers) have. Darkstalker. Yes, the bane of minotaurs, beholders and dragons alike, Darkstalker (or it's equivalent).

.... I just wrote an article for this game. D:

Kong is gonna have my head for this.

[Chloe Milev]

Well, Metalline is +2, but yes, it can be steel, silver, cold iron, or admantine.

If you go to http://www.crystalkeep.com/, then into D&D, there are many lists of races, spells, items, feats, etc.  Not only from the books, but Dragon Magazine.  One weapon ability I saw:  Truebane, where it is bane to your own race until you hit something, then it is bane to that for 1 round.  And that's just one of many interesting things not even in Magic Item Compendium.

I had thought about joining, but probably don't have the time to keep up.  I was thinking of this Abjurant Champion thing, then realized it was probably better to have a Rod of Wands loaded with 3 wands of Scorching Ray (or any wand below 15,000), Metamagic Spell Trigger, and Twin Spell and just make 18 rays a round, or something, than to ever use something so passe as a sword.

Poison is also cheap.  In the Book of Vile Darkness, you can get Colossal scorpion poison, Injury DC 54, 2d8 Str damage, for 9000 gp (i.e. free).  Now, one could get their saves above that, but there's a max save ceiling, so it could work, as long as they're not straight immune to poison (I usually just make myself untouchable and saves through the roof and don't worry about it).

Ah, the crazy things you can do at level 20 and nearly infinite "cheap" items.  I suppose PC's don't retire as kings forever much earlier becaue they have to save the world, or easy retirement is too boring.  "King of the nation?  Pfff.  Maybe world, but I have my sights set on the plane.  For now..."

[Darkforged Dove]

The only concern with poisons is that at high level play you meet a lot of undead/constructs.

My bad on Metalline being a +2.

[Mindhazingsquid]

How much does Metaline cost?  Would it be 8k each?

[Darkforged Dove]

16k, b/c it's a +3 weapon. Which means it's not cheap as free. So it chews up a 20k slot. Bleh.

You're better off getting +1 [Whatever] Bane Weapons of a bunch of properties. They're free. Heck, just make sure that you have a Najj's Cloak of Weaponry, and you can assume that you've got something in there as long as you can Identify the monster you're attacking.

Weapons for Elementals are a mite bit harder; since Ignan, Auran, Terran and Aquan costs a +2 enchancement; and chew up an 20k slot at the least. ):

Normally though, you can use other things to just kill an elemental; they're pretty weak to a lot of status effects, like ability damage or level drain. With their massive amounts of HD at higher levels, Con damage is really handy.

[Mindhazingsquid]

Also is there a cloak that gives energy resistance to all energy types, or at least acid/fire/cold/lightning/sonic?  I can't find it.

[Darkforged Dove]

It's in Crystal Keep; let me dig you up a link, i just googled it: http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/index.php

Look in the "by location" pdf .... searching with "energy" I found it; .... 18k for 10 versus 1 type.

Screw that. I'm going to use scrolls myself. Seriously at caster level 20, Resist Energy lasts 200 minutes, and grants ER [acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic] 30. Yes ER 30; that's a big deal. The scrolls are a trivial cost.

Awesome, eh? My character might even dump his armour, now that I think about it. I'd lose about 5-7 AC and 11 DR; but also lose the large armour check penalties.

[Mindhazingsquid]

That link helped me a lot, thanks!  Just need a couple more items.

[Chloe Milev]

In the Magic Item Compendium, there are rings of universal energy resistance.  In the Epic Level Handbook, there is a ring of universal energy immunity, which is probably too expensive, but it also has an example of a non-epic ring of universal energy resistance.

[Bayushi]

In the Magic Item Compendium, there are rings of universal energy resistance.  In the Epic Level Handbook, there is a ring of universal energy immunity, which is probably too expensive, but it also has an example of a non-epic ring of universal energy resistance.

Rings of Universal Elemental Immunity run for 2,160,000 gold pieces each. So yeah, it's definitely too expensive. In fact, the cheapest Ring on the Epic Magical Items - Rings chart is 216,000 gold pieces, which is 16,000 too much.

[Darkforged Dove]

Well....

Most of the time, a high reflex save; evasion, or improved evasion will lower the damage from elemental attacks.

If you have Energy Resist 30 on top of that, you'll be scratched at most.

A 20d6 elemental attack is about 70 damage. If you make the save, that's 35; with ER 30, that's 5. If you don't make the save, it's 40 out of 70 that you actually take.

Really, a Ring of Evasion, and scrolls of Energy Resistance will do more to defend against Reflex save spells than you would think. I think that both are free as well.

[Bayushi]

So... when is the game getting started?

[TheVillain]

Soon as one of them is done with their sheet I think.

Speaking of which, still here- just waiting on slowpokes.

[Bayushi]

I remember character creation marathons at 0200 for actual tabletop games, IRL.

AD&D 2ed characters could take so damned long to create. >.<

Third Edition isn't nearly as difficult, I've found, given that many of the things that made Second Ed a pain have been normalized between classes.

It really shouldn't take long, outside of custom magic item creation, to get these characters together. Hell, I built two and was prepared to build yet a THIRD while we still have people unfinished. >.<

[Darkforged Dove]

Yeah, I've been done for a while. Everything left is just coming up with different tactics in order to give myself more options by coming up with different spell and 'free' equipment combos.

Funny enough, most of my 'real' gear are things to store my 'free' gear. Two Portable Holes, and then bags of holding, a HHH (heward's handy... you know the rest). A stat boosting belt; and then some +10 to skill check items.

[Mindhazingsquid]

Finally I'm done, I just need to add up all my bonuses and stuff.

[Mindhazingsquid]

I think I did this right.
Crepusculous
Shadow Adult Dragoness level 20
CE  Large Size
Worships Falazur, dragon night god

STR   28+4   DEX   23   CON   26+4   INT   28   WIS   26   CHA   28
FORT    30   REF   25   WILL   30

HP   265 (305)   AC   44 (10 base, 25 natural, 6 dex, 5 armour bonus, -2 size)  14 (38) touch  40 flat footed
BAB   19   SPD   80 (land), 150 (poor) fly    INIT   0   SPACE/REACH      10'/5' (10' bite)

SKILLS       Ranks   Stat   Misc   TOTAL
Hide            23     6     21          50
Move Silent         23     6     2
Sense Motive         23     8     2
Listen            23     8     2
Spot            23     8     2
Search            23     9     2
Concentration         23     10     2
UMD            23     9     2
Jump            23     11     2
Knowledge (Arcana)      23     9     2
Knowledge (Planes)      23     9     2
Knowledge (Religion)      23     9     2
Escape Artist         23     6     2
Climb            11.5     11     2
Spellcraft         11.5     9     2

Languages: Draconic, Common, Under Common, Elven, Goblin, Infernal


FEATS
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1) Clinging Breath
3) Multi-attack
6) Recover Breath
9) Rapid Strike (Wings)
12) Fast Healing (3)
15) Rapid Strike (claws)
18) Ability Focus Breath

ABILITIES
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
SR 30
Level drain breath -3lvl/28+x(Highten Breath)dc/once 1d4-1(recover breath)+1 (Clinging Breath) rounds) (40 cone)
Energy drain immune
Shadow Blend (Su): In any condition of illumination
other than full daylight, a very young or older shadow dragon
can disappear into the shadows, giving it total concealment.
Artificial illumination, even a light or continual flame spell,
does not negate this ability. A daylight spell, however, does.
Mirror image 3/day
Blindsense
Keen Senses 60
Darkvision 120
DR 5/magic
Dimension Door 2/day
Frightful Presence: DC 29, 30Xage category range
Immune Sleep, Paralysis

EQUIPMENT
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ring of Chameleon Power:+10  Competence Bonus to hide as free action, standard action use disguise self (12K)
Ring of Spell Battle:If a spell is cast within 60' wearer is informed and can make a dc15+spell level spellcraft check to ID the spell even if it can't be seen.  If spell is IDed wearer can (1/day) choose to have the ring cast dispell magic as a counterspell to that spell or change the target within 60' of the wearer (even if wearer has no counterspell ready).  If target is illegal (ie out of the spells range) it works normally and the redirect is wasted. (67.6k)
Heavy Gemstone of Fortification:100% crit/sneak attack immunity (35k)
Impervious Vestment: +5 armour bonus, 1/day 20 feet high, 90 feet diameter, centered on caster 18 minute or until dismissed blade barrier  (34k)
(3) Rod of Metabreath (Highten Breath) (25k)
(2) Metalline +2(16k)
Metalline Fangs +2(16k)
Gorget of Tempest Breath:When you use your breath weapon, in addition to its normal effects, creatures in the area are affected as through struck by wind effects. The force of the wind depends on your size, as indicated below. For the effects of high winds, see Table 3–24 on page 95 of the Dungeon Master’s Guide.(10k)
Belt of Hidden Pouches:Hidden inside this belt are ten small pockets, each of which seems big enough to hold only a few coins. Each pocket actually functions as a small bag of hold­ing and can hold up to 1/2 cubic foot or 5 pounds of nonliving matter. No object with any dimension exceeding 6 inches can be placed in a pocket. Anything placed inside a pocket effectively has one-tenth its normal weight, so a full pocket weighs only 1/2 pound at most.  In addition, two secret pockets lie
behind each visible one, for a total of thirty pockets in all. The hidden pockets can be accessed only through a command word.  A true seeing spell reveals the presence of the hidden pockets but not the command word needed to open them. (9k)
Enslavement Rings:Matched set of 1 Master Ring and 5 Servant Rings
Master Ring – Detect Thoughts, at will on anyone wearing a matched Servant Ring.
Servant Ring – Cannot be removed without a Remove Curse, the wearer is not allowed a save vs. its Master Ring’s Detect Thoughts ability, –10 penalty vs. Divination spells, and when the ring is first put on (and each 10 days after), the wearer is affected by Dominate Person with the controller being the Master Ring wearer. (120k)
Ioun Stone – Pale Green Prism: Gem that floats around the owner’s head +1 Competence bonus to attack rolls, saves, skill checks, & ability checks.(20k)
Stone of Good Luck:Small piece of polished agate. +1 Luck bonus on saving throws, ability checks, & skill checks. (20k)
Belt of Giant Strength +4 (16k)
Piwafwi of Resistance +4:+4 Resistance bonus to all saves.  +10 Circumstance Bonus to Hide. (20k)
Pearl of the Siren:Breath, move around, & even cast spells underwater without hindrance.  Swim 60’. (15.3k)
Amulet of Health +4: +4 con (16k)
Chimes of Interuption:When struck, all spells with verbal components cast within 30’ for the next 3
minutes require a Concentration check vs.  15 + the spell’s level.  Usable once every 10 minutes.(16.8k)
Dragonskin bag of grendel:Large sack made from Black Dragon and Swamp Serpent skin.  Up to 1,500 lbs. feels like 8 lbs. Items placed in the bag are shrunk (as opposed to being stored in an extra-dimensional space), so the bag is safe to put in a Portable Hole, etc. (18k)
Gauntlet of Utterdeath:Spiked Gauntlet of Jet-Black Steel As a touch attack, opponent is reduced to smoldering cinders. On a successful Fortitude save vs. DC 20, opponent takes 10d6 damage. Usable 3/day. (96k)

SPELLS
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
0: 6+3   1: 6+2   2: 4+2   3:

0:( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
1:( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
2:( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
3:

Spells Known:
0: Silent Portal, Open/Close, Guidance, Sonic Snap, Cure Minor Wound, Detect Magic
1: Buzzing Bee (dc 18), Blood wind, Shield, Magic Missile
2: Infernal Wounds, Scintilating Scales
3:

COMBAT
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bite 2D6+11
Claw 1d8+5
Wings 1d6+5
Tail Slap 1D8+11
19+9-1+1

Full attack: Bite +28 (2d6+11), 3 Claws, +26/+26/+21 (1d8+5), 3 Wing Attacks +26/+26/+21 (1d6+5), Tail +26 (1d6+11)
Greater Magic Fang Full attack: Bite +35 (2d6+16), 3 Claws, +31/+31/+26 (1d8+10), 3 Wing Attacks +31/+31/+26 (1d6+10), Tail +31 (1d6+16)

[Darkforged Dove]

That should be fine; I also think that you get 3 more languages; you've got a +9 Int modifier.

Interesting how your 200k item is one that gives you a second character. That could be handy. You'll need to grapple a creature and put it onto them though. Your grapple mod of +34 isn't too shabby.

[Mindhazingsquid]

Languages: Draconic, Common, Under Common, Elven, Goblin, Infernal, Celestial, Abyssal, Auran

And technically I think it's 5 more characters.  Hah hah.  I figured it might be useful for fodder or for getting information.

[Darkforged Dove]

Oh damn.

That's not a bad deal; it's from the Mini HB, right?