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Author Topic: [NCES] A fiendish employer with a job of Epic proportions  (Read 5267 times)

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Online Muse

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Re: [NCES] A fiendish employer with a job of Epic proportions
« Reply #50 on: July 26, 2009, 08:15:59 PM »
Kong-chan, kc is without E acess at his curent location, ad will be there for three months. 

Offline Bayushi

Re: [NCES] A fiendish employer with a job of Epic proportions
« Reply #51 on: July 27, 2009, 02:51:33 AM »
Okay, Kongming and I worked together on this proposal... so... gonna drop it in here. This is the finished job, and the character I'm going to be playing.

Let's try this.

Image by Drow Tales
Name: Alystin
Age: 98
Sex: Female
Race: Drow Paragon
Class: Fighter 5 (Effective Character Level 20)
Alignment: Neutral Good
Ethos: Follower of Eilistraee

AbilityScoreBonus
STR35+12
DEX41+15
CON33+11
INT30+10
WIS31+10
CHA37+13

HP: 265/265
Init: +16
Speed: 90'

Armor Class: 53 (10 + 12 Dex +12 Insight + 12 Luck + 7 Defence)
-Flat 34
-Touch 48

Saving Throws:
FORT+30
REF+31
WILL+26

BAB: +5
-Melee +45
-Range +45

Weapon:
WeaponBonusDamageCriticalRangeWeightSizeTypeSpecial
Jallil`s Tsoss +45 1d8+38 19-20 x2
-
4 lbs
Medium
Slashing
+5 Vorpal Longsword

FEATS & SPECIAL ABILITIES:
Color Darkvision[Drow]You can see color with your darkvision.
Prerequisite: Darkvision.
Benefit: You can distuinguish colors with your darkvision as though it were normal vision.
Normal: Darkvision is normally black and white only.

Blind FightBenefit: In melee, every time you miss because of concealment, you can reroll your miss chance percentile roll one time to see if you actually hit.
An invisible attacker gets no advantages related to hitting you in melee. That is, you don’t lose your Dexterity bonus to Armor Class, and the attacker doesn’t get the usual +2 bonus for being invisible. The invisible attacker’s bonuses do still apply for ranged attacks, however.
You take only half the usual penalty to speed for being unable to see. Darkness and poor visibility in general reduces your speed to three-quarters normal, instead of one-half.
Normal: Regular attack roll modifiers for invisible attackers trying to hit you apply, and you lose your Dexterity bonus to AC. The speed reduction for darkness and poor visibility also applies.
Special: The Blind-Fight feat is of no use against a character who is the subject of a blink spell.
A fighter may select Blind-Fight as one of his fighter bonus feats.

Fatal FireYour faerie fire spells deal damage.
Prerequisite: Ability to cast faerie fire.
Benefit: When you cast the faerie fire spell, creatures in its area take 1d4 points of fire damage plus 1 point per level (to a maximum of +5). Affected creatures receive a Reflex saving throw to take half damage, but they are still outlined by the normal effects of the spell. This applies both when you use your faerie fire spell-like ability and if you cast faerie fire as a spell.
Special: You can use this feat with the Wide Fire feat(see that entry) to deal damage to creatures in up to a 20-foot-radius area.

Darksight[Drow]You can see normally into and beyond darkness spells.
Prerequisites: Blind-Fight, darkvision, ability to cast darkness, SR 15+.
Benefit: You see normally with your darkvision into and beyond magical darkness spells and effects (even deeper darkness), but once inside the effect's area you are affected as normal. This does not allow you to see through spells rendered dark by the Dark Spell feat. This is a supernatural ability.

Combat Reflexes[General]Benefit: You may make a number of additional attacks of opportunity equal to your Dexterity bonus.
With this feat, you may also make attacks of opportunity while flat-footed.
Normal: A character without this feat can make only one attack of opportunity per round and can’t make attacks of opportunity while flat-footed.
Special: The Combat Reflexes feat does not allow a rogue to use her opportunist ability more than once per round.
A fighter may select Combat Reflexes as one of his fighter bonus feats.

Improved Combat ReflexesYou exploit all your foe's mistakes.
Prerequisites: Dex 13+, Combat Reflexes.
Benefit: You may make several attacks of opportunity gainst the same foe, each time that opponent provokes one during the round. You still have a maximum number of attacks of opportunity equal to 1 + your Dexterity bonus.
Normal: The Combat Reflexes feat allows you to make several attacks of opportunity, but you cannot make more than one attack of opportunity per foe during that round.

Lightsight [Drow]You are adapted to bright light.
Benefit: When abruptly exposed to bright light (such as a daylight spell), you are not blinded, nor do you suffer any penalty while operating in bright light. You are still affected normally by spell or environmental effects based on bright light that would blind or hamper a creature without light blindness. This spell does not eliminate damage due to light effects (such as searing light) -- only blindness and penalties on attacks, saves, and checks.
Normal: When abruptly exposed to bright light, drow are blinded for 1 round and suffer a -1 circumstance penalty on attack rolls, saves, and checks while operating in bright light.

Improved Initiative [General]Benefit: You get a +4 bonus on initiative checks.
Special: A fighter may select Improved Initiative as one of his fighter bonus feats.

Polyglot [General]Prerequisites Int 25, Speak Language (five languages).

Benefit
You can speak all languages. If you are literate, you can also read and write all languages (not including magical script).

Weapon Focus [General]Choose one type of weapon. You can also choose unarmed strike or grapple (or ray, if you are a spellcaster) as your weapon for purposes of this feat.

Prerequisites: Proficiency with selected weapon, base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus on all attack rolls you make using the selected weapon.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new type of weapon.
A fighter may select Weapon Focus as one of his fighter bonus feats. He must have Weapon Focus with a weapon to gain the Weapon Specialization feat for that weapon.
LONG SWORD

Perfect Strike [General]You are adept at finding the most effective place to strike an opponent in melee.
Prerequisites: Dex 13+, Weapon Proficiency (Selected Melee Weapon), Weapon Finesse (Selected Melee Weapon), Weapon Focus (Selected Melee Weapon), base attack bonus +3 or higher.
Benefit: When wielding the selected melee weapon, you may add your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to damage rolls. This feat does not help you when attacking creatures that are immune to critical hits --apply your Strength modifier to the damage roll as normal.

When you make off-hand attacks with the selected weapon, add one-half your Dexterity modifier to damage instead of one-half your Strength modifier. However, when you make two-handed attacks with the selected weapon, you add only your Dexterity modifier to damage, not 1 1/2 times your Dexterity modifier. This feat cannot be applied to thrown weapon attacks.

This feat may be chosen as a fighter bonus feat.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Each time you take this feat, it must apply to a new weapon.
LONG SWORD


SPECIAL ABILITIES:
Racial TraitsSpell Resistance: 30
Immune to Sleep spells and effects.
+2 racial bonus on Will saves against spells and spell-like abilities.
Elven Reverie
Spell-Like Abilities: 1/day - dancing lights, darkness, and fairie fire.

Paragon AbilitiesSpell-Like Abilities [Sp]: If the base creature has spell-like abilities, it gains +15 to its caster level to use those abilities. A paragon creature also gains the ability to use greater dispel magic, haste, and see invisibility three times per day, even if it did not have spell-like abilities before, at 15th caster level.

Special Qualities [Ex]: A paragon creature retains all the special qualities of the base creature and also gains the following.
  • Fire and cold resistance 10. If the creature already possesses such resistance, use whichever is better.
  • Damage reduction 10/epic. If the creature already possesses damage reduction, use whichever is better.
  • Spell resistance equal to the paragon creature’s CR +25. If the creature already possesses spell resistance, use whichever is higher.
  • Fast healing 20. If the creature already possesses fast healing, use whichever is better.
  • A paragon creature’s natural weapons are treated as epic for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.


SKILLS:
SkillSkill ModAbility ModRanksOther
Climb2912710
Craft(Weaponsmith)2610710
Handle Animal3013710
Intimidate31101110
Jump2912710
Listen22.0102.010
Ride2912710
Search21.5101.510
Spot22.0102.010
Swim2912710
Leftover Skill Points24

Equip:
1 item worth up to 200,000 GPVorpal Longsword +5, 200,000 gold pieces
2 items worth up to 100,000 GP eachInstant Fortress, 55,000 gold pieces
Carpet of Flying(10'x10'), 60,000 gold pieces
5 items worth up to 50,000 GP eachHoly Longsword of Disruption, 50,000 gold pieces
Thigh High Boots of Teleportation, 49,000 gold pieces
Ring Gates, 40,000 gold pieces
Bracers of Armor +7, 49,000 gold pieces
Gloves of Dexterity +6, 36,000 gold pieces
10 items worth up to 20,000 GP eachIridescent Spindle Ioun Stone, 18,000 gold pieces
Clear Spindle Ioun Stone, 4,000 gold pieces
Portable Hole, 20,000 gold pieces
Handy Haversack, 2,000 gold pieces
Dark Blue Rhomboid Ioun Stone, 10,000 gold pieces
Bracelet of Friends, 19,000 gold pieces
Potion of Remove Curse, 750 gold pieces
Potion of Remove Curse, 750 gold pieces
Potion of Remove Disease, 750 gold pieces
Potion of Remove Disease, 750 gold pieces

Languages
  • Drow
  • Undercommon
  • Drow Sign Language
  • Draconic
  • Abyssal
  • Aquan
  • Celestial
  • Infernal
  • Elven
  • Planar Common
  • Goblin
  • Gnoll
  • Orc

lol, FEAR the level 5 MONSTER!... err, fighter, yeah. :-p
« Last Edit: August 05, 2009, 02:10:02 AM by Akiko »

Online Muse

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Re: [NCES] A fiendish employer with a job of Epic proportions
« Reply #52 on: July 27, 2009, 05:12:22 AM »
*grins*  My winged nymph is in LUV! 

She's cool Akiko-chan! 

Offline kongmingTopic starter

Re: [NCES] A fiendish employer with a job of Epic proportions
« Reply #53 on: July 27, 2009, 05:15:22 AM »
Awesome.

So, we have three players/characters ready.
Muse should get his winged nymph ready to play.

Then I'll start things off - kckolbe can join when he gets back, but I don't want to delay the game for a period of months.

Offline Mindhazingsquid

Re: [NCES] A fiendish employer with a job of Epic proportions
« Reply #54 on: July 27, 2009, 05:58:21 AM »
If I made a dragon 'tank' (read damage sink) would that be okay?  Or would that be just too weird?

Offline kongmingTopic starter

Re: [NCES] A fiendish employer with a job of Epic proportions
« Reply #55 on: July 27, 2009, 07:21:43 AM »
Sure, go for it. The character level for a dragon should be around CR + 5, rather than trusting WotC to give a correct LA to anything. So if the Dragon has a CR of 15 or less, go for it (that's generally Adult/Mature Adult, though some might come in at Young Adult or Old). If it's less than 15, then add class levels on top of that.

Offline Darkforged Dove

Re: [NCES] A fiendish employer with a job of Epic proportions
« Reply #56 on: July 27, 2009, 10:26:51 AM »
Hmm, Akiko, that's an interesting character. I'm not sure if my character would see her as a rival or as a partner. Probably both. I'm not sure how that will turn out. Interesting most likely.

Offline Bayushi

Re: [NCES] A fiendish employer with a job of Epic proportions
« Reply #57 on: July 27, 2009, 11:39:08 AM »
If I made a dragon 'tank' (read damage sink) would that be okay?  Or would that be just too weird?

Only thing I see is that it might be easiest if you tried something other than 'tank', cause the nude Dark Elf seems to be doing a pretty good job of it(53 armor class and 263 hp unclothed/unarmored is absurd. I wasn't intending to build a 'twink', but holy hell, ouch).

Hmm, Akiko, that's an interesting character. I'm not sure if my character would see her as a rival or as a partner. Probably both. I'm not sure how that will turn out. Interesting most likely.

We'll see, I guess? I'm looking forward to this game, and cringing at the first time Alystin gets to make an attack of opportunity, as it'll be a long ways to go, there. 1 + Dex modifier number of Attacks of Opportunity per round? And with Improved Combat Reflexes, all of which can be applied to the same target at the same time? Are you SERIOUS?!

Can only imagine one's shoulder coming unsocketed swinging the sword that many times in such a short period of time.

 :o

Offline Mindhazingsquid

Re: [NCES] A fiendish employer with a job of Epic proportions
« Reply #58 on: July 28, 2009, 06:54:01 AM »
I might have a 'debuff' kind of build for a shadow dragon in that case.  I'm still working on equipment but I wouldn't mind help if you don't mind.  I'm mostly using the draconomicon.  Mostly I start with my 1-3 level drain breath then try to shake them with fear aura for a minimum of 4d6 rounds (not much but they're going to lose saves from level drain).
Here's what I have so far...


Name: Crepusculous
Shadow Juvenile Dragoness level 15
CE

STR   24   DEX   24   CON   25   INT   24   WIS   25   CHA   25
FORT   10+7   REF   8+7   WILL   12+7

HP   215   AC   38 (10 base, 16 natural, 7 dex, 5 armour bonus)  17 touch  31 flat footed
BAB   13   SPD   80 (land), 150 (poor) fly    INIT   0

SKILLS       Ranks   Stat   Misc   TOTAL
Hide         18     5     10 (ring)  33
Move Silent      18     5
Sense Motive      18     7
Listen         18     7
Spot         18     7
Search         18     7
Concentration      18     7
UMD         18     7
Jump         18     7
Knowledge (Arcana)18     7
Knowledge (Planes) 18     7
Knowledge (Religion)18     7
Escape Artist      18     5

Languages: Draconic, common, under common,


FEATS
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1) Clinging Breath
3) Highten Breath
6) Recover Breath
9) Awaken Frightful Aura (dc 24, 12' radius)
12) Fast Healing (3)
15) Ability Focus (Breath)


ABILITIES
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
SR17
Level drain breath -2lvl/20+2 (ability focus)+x(Highten Breath) ( dc (once 1d4-1(recover breath)+x (highten breath)+1 (Clinging Breath) rounds) (30 cone)
Energy drain immune
Shadow Blend (Su): In any condition of illumination
other than full daylight, a very young or older shadow dragon
can disappear into the shadows, giving it total concealment.
Artificial illumination, even a light or continual flame spell,
does not negate this ability. A daylight spell, however, does.
Mirror image 3/day
Blindsense
Keen Senses 60
Darkvision 120

EQUIPMENT
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ring of Chameleon Power
Heavy Gemstone of Fortification (100% crit/sneak attack immunity)
Impervious Vestment (+5 armour bonus, 1/day 20 feet high, 90 feet diameter, centered on caster    18 minute or until dismissed blade barrier)


SPELLS
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
0: 5+2   1: 3+2

0:( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
1:( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )

Spells Known:
0: Silent Portal, Stick, Guidance, Sonic Snap
1: Buzzing Bee (dc 18), Blood wind

COMBAT
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bite 1d8+7
Claw 1d6+3
Wings 1d4+3
13+7/8+7/3+7

Full attack: Claw 20 (1d6+3), Wing 15 (1d4+3), bite 10 (1d8+7)

Offline kongmingTopic starter

Re: [NCES] A fiendish employer with a job of Epic proportions
« Reply #59 on: July 28, 2009, 08:58:09 AM »
Looks good so far, but I'm wondering: you chose to be a Juvenile, those are CR 8 (which would make them "level 13", allowing another 7 class levels. Alternatively an Adult is CR 13, making them level 18 for +2 class levels, and Young Adult would be somewhere between the two).

I know that means you could have more hit dice than your level, but that's okay. That would also mean you wouldn't need to spend a feat on getting the Frightful Presence.

Offline kongmingTopic starter

Re: [NCES] A fiendish employer with a job of Epic proportions
« Reply #60 on: July 28, 2009, 09:02:36 AM »
As for equipment, I'd recommend:

*Stat boosters, if necessary, to get the basic numbers up
*Coating your claws, teeth and whatever in adamantine/silver/mithral/green steel then enhancing them as weapons (even just making them all +1 Spellstoring - which is cheap enough to be free - and then using the innate dragon sorcerer levels to put low level damage spells in them).
*Stocking up on various Sorcerer scrolls that you think might be useful - including the spells that alter breath weapons
*Rods of Meta Breath (25K each, each one has one Meta-Breath feat that can be used 3/day)

Offline Mindhazingsquid

Re: [NCES] A fiendish employer with a job of Epic proportions
« Reply #61 on: July 28, 2009, 03:14:22 PM »
Looks good so far, but I'm wondering: you chose to be a Juvenile, those are CR 8 (which would make them "level 13", allowing another 7 class levels. Alternatively an Adult is CR 13, making them level 18 for +2 class levels, and Young Adult would be somewhere between the two).

I know that means you could have more hit dice than your level, but that's okay. That would also mean you wouldn't need to spend a feat on getting the Frightful Presence.
It's due to Level adjustment and juvenile is 13 hd at the start plus a +4 level adjustment.  Juvenile has four 'steps' before young adult, ending with becoming 15 hd with +5 LA that's 20.
Of course, if you really want me to be a young adult, I'm up for that!  Hah hah

As for equipment, I'd recommend:

*Stat boosters, if necessary, to get the basic numbers up
*Coating your claws, teeth and whatever in adamantine/silver/mithral/green steel then enhancing them as weapons (even just making them all +1 Spellstoring - which is cheap enough to be free - and then using the innate dragon sorcerer levels to put low level damage spells in them).
*Stocking up on various Sorcerer scrolls that you think might be useful - including the spells that alter breath weapons
*Rods of Meta Breath (25K each, each one has one Meta-Breath feat that can be used 3/day)
In reguards to coating teeth and claws, I was thinking that and meant to ask if that would be acceptable. 
Since Shadow Dragons are allowed to cast Cleric spells as well as sorcerer spells am I allowed to use cleric scrolls?  Of course, I have Use Magic Device too.  Hah
I've also already taken the best Metabreath feats I can find.  If there were one that would let me simply put holes in my breath weapon so that I don't hurt allies that would be cool but I can't find one like that.  Well, I'd take lingering breath but I'm not sure about a line, "If a creature is affected by the same nondamaging breath weapon twice, the effects do not stack.".  Is my breath damaging? (damaging levels instead of hitpoints?)  It later compares a silver dragon's cold breath vs paralize breath.  If you're already paralized you can't be paralized MORE.  That's different from my breath.
Using Metabreath rods do you still have to pay the cost in rounds?
« Last Edit: July 28, 2009, 03:52:11 PM by Mindhazingsquid »

Offline Darkforged Dove

Re: [NCES] A fiendish employer with a job of Epic proportions
« Reply #62 on: July 28, 2009, 05:09:04 PM »
Only thing I see is that it might be easiest if you tried something other than 'tank', cause the nude Dark Elf seems to be doing a pretty good job of it(53 armor class and 263 hp unclothed/unarmored is absurd. I wasn't intending to build a 'twink', but holy hell, ouch).

We'll see, I guess? I'm looking forward to this game, and cringing at the first time Alystin gets to make an attack of opportunity, as it'll be a long ways to go, there. 1 + Dex modifier number of Attacks of Opportunity per round? And with Improved Combat Reflexes, all of which can be applied to the same target at the same time? Are you SERIOUS?!

Can only imagine one's shoulder coming unsocketed swinging the sword that many times in such a short period of time.

 :o

That's not bad. I'm guessing that you've got a reach out to 30-40' right?

Right now Merhault's only pulling in 10' (Kusari-Gama) + 5' Extending (DR Something, it's a Drow ability; works on flexible or polearm weapons; not swords) +5' (Fighter 11) + 5' (Mental Weaponry); then Size benefits, if I use a Giant Size scroll. However 25' reach with no doughnut "hole" is probably more than enough. Going Large pushes me to 35' of reach; and Giant Size goes to caster limit; or less if desired. Going Colossal is a cool idea, but probably not going to be needed ever.

I'll probably make two +2 (8,000 gp) Adamantine (+trivial gp) Hideaway (+7,00 gp; trivial), Sizing (+4,000 gp;trivial) Kusari-Gamas. Hideaway and Sizing being "add-ons" don't actually increase a weapons enhancement bonus; so if they're cheap, they're free.


My own "defense" sequence is something like:

-Enemy enters within 25' of my character
-Take an AoO.... no tripping though. ... The Stand Still feat might be good though.

-When enemy approaches within attacking range
--Get attacked in melee
--Get furious charged/pounced; enemy is forced to make one attack
-Counter attack with a full attack action (8 attacks)

-Repeat until all Attacks of Opportunity are expended

Right now I've got 13 AoOs with which to spread out, at this point, I'm almost hoping that people take a swing at me.

-If I'm toe to toe with two other people that have TWF and +16 BaB (8 attacks each; that's 16 attacks in one round); I can unleash 8*14 attacks in retaliation; 104 attacks back, for every 14 taken. Damn, Counterattack is pretty awesome.

Also, for level 20... 50-ish armour and 300-ish HP is about average. In one game I was aiming to get my charater's AC into the high 40's; and instead settled for miss chance.

For Magic items,

Belt of Magnificence is an awesome all around item. +6 to all stats, belt slot, and a flat 200k. Nearly anything else of that level can be covered with scrolls and spells.

A +1 luck blade with no wishes as one of the Dragon's natural weapons would be handy, as would a +1 Defending 'claw'; cast Greater Magic Weapon to bring both to +5. Most "high end" weapons should have +9 worth of special abilities; +1 in base enhancement bonus, and a +5 thanks to a basically free casting of GMW.


Also, Scrolls with 3 Level 9 Spells, with a Caster level of 20 are only 13,500 gp. I know that I'm going to stock up. since it means that pretty much every spell is available at maximum caster level. Thank goodness for my Portable hole.... I ... might buy a second, or a belt of many pouches.

I think I'm going to need some Merciful weapons..... a merciful bow; a golembane pickaxe, and a disruption mace/club. I don't think that I'd need anything else. That's sort of an interesting prospect, a character that doesn't need many weapons, in D&D of all games.


========


Mindhazingsquid,

Kongming will confrim, but for a "Dragon" (aka, creatures with the [Awesome] subtype); you can play them using the following forumla:

1. Take Creature CR
2. If an [Awesome] Creature (Beholders, Dragons, Mindflayers, Outsiders, and most things with high level wizard-grade powers; plus other things); add +4 to the CR
3. Add +1 CR For making your charcter a PC
4. Your current CR is your "level" in D&D, if you were a PC.

LA and HD are bad ways to gauge power, and both ignore the other, which makes Mindflayer and Dragon PCs something to cry about.

Meta-breath Rods
You'll probably pay the cost in rounds for your breath weapon. There are ways to get infinite breath attacks though. I'm sure that Kongming would adjust that to "1 breath per round" or "1 breath per iterative attack" depending on how much she deigns to crush us under her power-armoured jackboots.

Offline Mindhazingsquid

Re: [NCES] A fiendish employer with a job of Epic proportions
« Reply #63 on: July 28, 2009, 05:23:06 PM »
Alright.  I'll make changes then, thanks for your help.

Actually, I'm a little confused now.
This is the Shadow Dragon info.

Challenge Rating:Wyrmling 3; very young 4; young 6;
juvenile 8; young adult 11; adult 13; mature adult 16; old
18; very old 19; ancient 21; wyrm 22; great wyrm 24
Advancement:Wyrmling 5–6 HD; very young 8–9 HD;
young 11–12 HD; juvenile 14–15 HD; young adult
17–18 HD; adult 20–21 HD; mature adult 23–24 HD; old
26–27 HD; very old 29–30 HD; ancient 32–33 HD; wyrm
35–36 HD; great wyrm 38+ HD
Level Adjustment:Wyrmling +3;
very young +3;
young +3, juvenile
+4; others —

By your ruling I'd be 20 or 21 hd?
(adult 13+5=18, adult 20–21 HD)
And with 2 extra 'levels' or crs? so my next 'level' I'd become Mature Adult?

How do I figure out my extra feats and attribute points now?
« Last Edit: July 28, 2009, 05:34:31 PM by Mindhazingsquid »

Offline Darkforged Dove

Re: [NCES] A fiendish employer with a job of Epic proportions
« Reply #64 on: July 28, 2009, 09:32:49 PM »
I think a safe bet would be to do the following:

1. Use the CR 16 Dragon's stats, as they are.
2. Give yourself 20 or 21 HD
3. You count as CR 20 now.

The way that I'm calculating this is is like follows:

CR 16 = 23-24 HD

Every 2 HD added to a Dragon adds +1 CR; so we'll strip off some HD instead. It's not clean, but it works.

Oh, and use the stats as-is for the creature.

If you want to find out the Stat Mods for the creature, subtract 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8 from the Dragon's stats; with 15 being subtracted from the largest stat, and working your way down; Round ability stat mods down to nearest multiple of 2(negative mods up to multiple of 2), and CRs down to nearest whole number.

My source. Kong already knows it. Also.... I wonder what a game of only dragons would be like. Usually I can't stand the idea of them, and nearly never use them in my own games. However, the idea of being a dragon is kind of cool.

Quote
Converting Monsters Into Characters:
Method 1: The Easy Way
Assume that a monster is a character of its CR+1 (modified if it it's a monster with the [Awesome] tag), and that its stat modifiers are derived from the assumption that the base monster was built using the Elite Array (highest monster stat – highest elite stat, then repeat for next lowest, etc). For level-dependant effects like skill point maxes, feat prereqs, etc, use the monster’s CR+1. Round ability stat mods down to nearest multiple of 2(negative mods up to multiple of 2), and CRs down to nearest whole number.

The nice part of this method is that it is easy, fast, and you can get to playing a monster immediately without as lot of DM intervention or paperwork. The downside is that you might get an underpowered or overpowered monster character if you are not careful (like you forgot that Dragons are actually CRed two less than they should be, or that Sprites are unplayable).

Hmm, dragons are said to be CR'd 2 less than they should be. Eh, w/e, it's a sliding scale I find. At low levels, they are at most +1 CR; and at higher levels seem more like CR + 4 (before anything else).

I hope that this helps. Kong will either bust my ankles by tomorrow, or will say that I said something without making her brain cry.

Offline Mindhazingsquid

Re: [NCES] A fiendish employer with a job of Epic proportions
« Reply #65 on: July 28, 2009, 10:03:28 PM »
So, I'd be

                                                                                                                             Breath  Frightful
                                                                         Base Attack/             Fort Ref Will     Weapon Presence
Age           Size Hit Dice    (hp) Str Dex Con Int Wis Cha Grapple     Attack Save Save Save   (DC)      DC
Mature adult L  22d12+88 (231) 23   10  19   20  20  21  +22/+32     +27    +17  +13   +18    4(26)     26

but with 20 hd instead?  I'm not sure what you mean about the stat mods.  You mean the mods are +8, +2, +8, +6, +8, +6

Offline Darkforged Dove

Re: [NCES] A fiendish employer with a job of Epic proportions
« Reply #66 on: July 28, 2009, 11:35:42 PM »
23 - 15 = 8
10 - 8 = 2
19 -10 = 8
20 -12 = 8
20 -13 = 6
21 -14 = 6

Yep, that looks fine.

Change the HD to 20HD + Whatever; your attacks and saves will go down a few points. Look at the 20th level monk to see what your base saves are like.

I'm guessing you also get Wish economy access; so +5 inherent bonus to stats; all items 15k gold are free; and the budget that Kongming wrote down in the starting page.

Remember, dragons are potent casters. Also, make sure that you get some good feats. You don't have many, and you've got a lot of BaB. Kong could direct you to some nice feats.

Offline kongmingTopic starter

Re: [NCES] A fiendish employer with a job of Epic proportions
« Reply #67 on: July 28, 2009, 11:45:01 PM »
Okay, yeah. I think the LA/ECL system is super-bad.

So, an Adult would be "level 18" with... however many hit dice. Was it 20 or something? You can then either take additional dragon hit dice as levels (each giving the usual 1d12+Con HP, 6+Int skills, +1 BAB, all saves are Good, and +1 Natural Armour) - and then at level 21 "evolve" into the Mature Adult, or start taking class levels.

For ability scores, work them out like normal for a PC, then add (for an Adult): +8 Str, +6 Con, +10 Int, +10 Wis, +10 Cha

Now, despite the number of hit dice, for the purpose of the game you will count as though you have 20. So that means 5 ability score increases, 7 feats (unless of course you took levels in Fighter or something else that gave bonus feats), and maximum skill ranks of 23. Also your Spell Resistance is Level+10, always.

I know it's not really precise, any of this, but it puts you in the rough power level and means you're impressive-sized (no-one is scared of a dragon smaller than my dog, after all). And really, monsters are never an exact science.

Meta-Breath Rods: it was an idea, I forgot you had taken most of the good ones already (though I suppose there's still the Breath Wall and the one that grants your allies immunity?), but if you did take one, it would not affect the recharge time.

As for the stacking of Lingering, negative levels can count as damage, yeah.

Oh, and Cleric scrolls are fine, given they're on the "Shadow Dragon" class list.

Offline Bayushi

Re: [NCES] A fiendish employer with a job of Epic proportions
« Reply #68 on: July 28, 2009, 11:51:04 PM »
Also.... I wonder what a game of only dragons would be like. Usually I can't stand the idea of them, and nearly never use them in my own games. However, the idea of being a dragon is kind of cool.

There was a second-edition AD&D campaign setting called Council of Wyrms. Most, if not all, player characters were dragons in said campaign, or a dragon's servant.

I did not get to play it terribly much, but when I did, I enjoyed it. I am not aware if the setting was ever converted to 3.x, however.

Offline Darkforged Dove

Re: [NCES] A fiendish employer with a job of Epic proportions
« Reply #69 on: July 29, 2009, 12:29:49 AM »
Ah. I see.

It probably wouldn't be too hard. You'd just replaced every NPC with a new one. It would be pretty tedious though. While I'm fine playing a dragon (and that's a big change, since for years I've been rabidly anti-dragon in my own campaigns, never using them at all, nor having them as part of the setting); I'm not keen on converting a whole setting about dragons.

Perhaps just fluff, with 3.5 (and... some more) crunch would work.

Offline Mindhazingsquid

Re: [NCES] A fiendish employer with a job of Epic proportions
« Reply #70 on: July 29, 2009, 03:26:59 AM »
Here is remade, pre most items.  I couldn't find a metabreath feat to allow you to ignore allies.

Crepusculous
Shadow Adult Dragoness level 20
CE  Large Size
Worships Falazur, dragon night god

STR   28   DEX   23   CON   26   INT   28   WIS   26   CHA   28
FORT   17+8   REF   13+6   WILL   18+8

HP   265   AC   44 (10 base, 25 natural, 6 dex, 5 armour bonus, -2 size)  15 touch  40 flat footed
BAB   19   SPD   80 (land), 150 (poor) fly    INIT   0   SPACE/REACH      10'/5' (10' bite)

SKILLS       Ranks   Stat   Misc   TOTAL
Hide            23     6     10 (ring)  33
Move Silent         23     6
Sense Motive         23     8
Listen            23     8
Spot            23     8
Search            23     9
Concentration         23     8
UMD            23     9
Jump            23     9
Knowledge (Arcana)      23     9
Knowledge (Planes)      23     9
Knowledge (Religion)      23     9
Escape Artist         23     6
Climb            11.5     9
Spellcraft         11.5     9

Languages: Draconic, Common, Under Common,


FEATS
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1) Clinging Breath
3) Power Attack
6) Recover Breath
9) Rapid Strike (Wings)
12) Fast Healing (3)
15) Rapid Strike (claws)
18) Wingover


ABILITIES
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
SR 25
Level drain breath -3lvl/28+2 (ability focus)+x(Highten Breath) ( dc (once 1d4-1(recover breath)+x (highten breath)+1 (Clinging Breath) rounds) (40 cone)
Energy drain immune
Shadow Blend (Su): In any condition of illumination
other than full daylight, a very young or older shadow dragon
can disappear into the shadows, giving it total concealment.
Artificial illumination, even a light or continual flame spell,
does not negate this ability. A daylight spell, however, does.
Mirror image 3/day
Blindsense
Keen Senses 60
Darkvision 120
DR 5/magic
Dimension Door 2/day
Frightful Presence: DC 29, 30Xage category
Immune Sleep, Paralysis

EQUIPMENT
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ring of Chameleon Power
Heavy Gemstone of Fortification (100% crit/sneak attack immunity)
Impervious Vestment (+5 armour bonus, 1/day 20 feet high, 90 feet diameter, centered on caster    18 minute or until dismissed blade barrier)
(3) Rod of Metabreath (Highten Breath)

SPELLS
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
0: 6+3   1: 6+2   2: 4+2   3:

0:( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
1:( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
2:( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( )
3:

Spells Known:
0: Silent Portal, Open/Close, Guidance, Sonic Snap, Cure Minor Wound, Detect Magic
1: Buzzing Bee (dc 18), Blood wind, Shield, Magic Missile
2: Infernal Wounds, Scintilating Scales
3:

COMBAT
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bite 2D6+9
Claw 1d8+4
Wings 1d6+4
Tail Slap 1D8+9
19+9/14+9/9+9/4+9

Full attack: Bite 28 (2d6+9), Claw, 23 (1d8+4), Claw 18 (1d8+4), Wing 18 (1d6+4), Wing 13 (1d6+4), Tail 13 (1d6+9)

Offline kongmingTopic starter

Re: [NCES] A fiendish employer with a job of Epic proportions
« Reply #71 on: July 29, 2009, 05:29:14 AM »
Looks pretty good to me. Just a few things...

*Upgrade the SR to 30, "just because"
*Doesn't Rapid Strike give you another claw (and wing, as you took it once for each) attack as well?
*The attack bonus for some of your natural weapons seems pretty low. Do you have a clever way around that? Then again, the breath weapon is probably your primary attack form and that's just fine.
*You still can coat natural weapons in substances so as to enhance them (+1 or +2 is cheap enough to be free by the rules this game uses. So that could be +1 Spellstoring (for a free Magic Missile damage) or +2 (for the better chance to hit) or whatever.)

But it basically looks good. Now I'm really just waiting on Muse, then we can begin.

Offline Mindhazingsquid

Re: [NCES] A fiendish employer with a job of Epic proportions
« Reply #72 on: July 29, 2009, 07:51:09 AM »
If I didn't have rapidstrike I would only have one wing and one claw.
I plan on coating my claws and fangs (adamantium fronts?) and stuff.

My main style will be to skulk in the shadows or fly overhead and just before the part engages breath on the enemies to lower their resistance (swooping down on them from the air to get my fear as well if it's in the open) then just pester them with spells and claws and fangs and try not to die.  Hah hah
I got Scintilating scales to beef up my touch AC since it turns natural armour into deflection armour which works with touch attacks.

Err, and I just noticed I still had Power attack and that wasn't working for what I wanted so I'm going to replace that with something else.  I'll try to finish up tomorrow.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2009, 07:54:16 AM by Mindhazingsquid »

Offline kongmingTopic starter

Re: [NCES] A fiendish employer with a job of Epic proportions
« Reply #73 on: July 29, 2009, 08:29:32 AM »
Possibly Multi-Attack? That way your attacks would be:

Bite +27 (2d6+9), 3 Claws, +25/+25/+20 (1d8+4), 3 Wing Attacks +25/+25/+20 (1d6+4), Tail +25 (1d6+9)

It would also enable you to, at level 21, take Multi-weapon Rend (meaning if two claws hit, you'd deal another 1d8+13 automatically)

Offline Chloe Milev

Re: [NCES] A fiendish employer with a job of Epic proportions
« Reply #74 on: July 29, 2009, 10:11:34 AM »
Get a druid to cast Pemanancy, then Greater Magic Fang on each of your natural weapons.

*Skulks back into the shadows to watch epic game*