Interest Check - D&D 5e, Battle of the Band!

[Malara]

The Pitch:



In the beginning...there was the World.  And it was good...enough.  A vast world dotted with all sorts of different races of man, beast, and many things in-between.  And for centuries there was...well, not peace, per se, but at the very least, an acceptable level of conflict between nations, that kept anyone from growing too bored with life at large.  Of course, what no one--even the Gods in their nigh-infinite, if distracted wisdom--foresaw was the coming of the Rifts...

They appeared all across the World, in the skies, beneath the oceans.  In mountains and valleys.  In deserted plains and bustling cities.  They were holes in reality, spitting and sparking arcane power into the very air, making reality itself seem to shimmer and ripple.  And from the Rifts came...monsters.  Terrible, strange creatures like nothing the World had seen before.  They overran cities, and slaughtered indiscriminately.  Demons, dragons, creatures from beyond the veils of death, and all manner of horrors that no one had imagined before threatened to destroy the World as it stood.

When it seemed that all was lost, men, women, and other creatures emerged, determined to face the unearthly scourge, and stop the threat of the Rifts.  These were the first Bands of Noble Adventurers--Or Bands, as they became known, eventually.  They were the first groups of men and women to join together, regardless of race or nation, in an effort to fight against the evils unleashed on their world.  Their names and legacies have become the stuff of myth and legend.  Though their quests took years, even decades, the Rifts were eventually closed...but the World had changed.

Too many monsters had emerged for the World to ever truly be safe again.  Most nations devoted as much time to keeping the evils out as to actually helping their citizens.  in some cases, it was vastly more protection than anything else.  Now, centuries later, the leading form of entertainment, and by far the most lucrative (but dangerous) job in the World is to be a part of a Band.  Treated as heroes, gods, role models, celebrities, and traveling nobility all in one, they serve as both guardians against the dark forces in the World, and a source of continuing entertainment for the masses.

Of course, for better or worse, a life of constant travel and fighting for one's life can wear anyone down, even the most glory-crazed of heroes.  And so eventually most bands fade away, or go out in a blaze of glory.  Now, for the first time in over 3,000 years, a sight has been seen that everyone prayed would never come...the Rifts are beginning to reappear.  And all the auguries point to the need for one particular Band to reform, and recapture their fighting heart, or all will be lost.


The Game:

So, with all the vague, world-y fluff out of the way, I'm essentially seeing if anyone's interested in playing a higher-level (Tier 3 or 4) D&D 5e game?  Players would be a(n im)famous Band of adventurers who are reunited because Destiny said "fuck you!" 

Your characters are the ultimate celebrities, mobbed by fans and well-wishers, but also viewed as a weapon to be used against the Hordes of darkness, viewed more as ideals than as real people.  Which also means, Destiny aside, you're also disposable in the eyes of the masses, only beloved as long as you're out causing a ruckus. 

Will you stay the course, resisting the pull of fame and glory to do what's right for the world?  Will you give in to your baser urges, and fight just to keep the parties coming, while the Right Thing can go screw off?  When is it ever too much attention and adulation, making it so hard to ever live a normal life?  Or, are you now viewed as a has-been, desperately grasping at fate for a chance to matter again?

Is it all just sex, drugs, and dragon-slaying after all?!

Sooo...with all that said, is anyone interested?  Questions?  Comments?

[AndyZ]

Any plans for what all you want to allow?  I may go for Celestial Warlock…

[Malara]

I'm pretty open honestly, so pretty much anything canon's going to at least get serious consideration for making it in.  I tend to hesitate at homebrew or UA materials though.

[AribethAmkiir]

Sounds fun!

*plants flag of interest* 

[Isengrad]

This seems like a fun game, Planting a flag.

Here we go, Ars Metallica reunion tour!

[pdragon]

Also interested

[SilkenVenom]

High level DnD?

Why yes, I do believe I am interested in that. Always. Every time.

[Malara]

Woohoo!  Interest!  I don't need to sacrifice the goats!  I still might, but I don't need to.  For those of you who're interested, I'll either code up a sheet later, or blatantly steal someone else's format like a sneaking sneaky sneak.  In the meantime though, start thinking up some concepts!

[Isengrad]

Kicking around a few ideas. Heavy metal bard/warlock, larger than life fighter, Iron man...fun times.

[Levi]

*flourishes her signature over paper without reading*

[RedKnight]

It looks like the game is already over-subscribed, and I’m over my limit on games, but you had me at Tier 3 or 4.

I assume that being an Adventuring Superstar means lots of groupies. 

[Malara]

I'm not going on a first-come, first-served basis.  I'm all about fun characters who can work well together, and entertain me when i ruin their lives!  

ANd yes, when you're not risking life and limb, the groupies do flow like running water.

[Isengrad]

This does have an amazing x-crawl vibe BTWs

[Hatless]

I'm down. I've got my eye on a sorcerer that's been doing magic shows since hanging up the wand to capitalize on the fame. Huge ego, attention seeker, and a dash of stereotypical pyromancer traits like a general disregard for collateral damage and a tendency to solve every problem with excessive force. Maybe a fire genasi with the draconic bloodline because I find it's weirdly better at being a fire-based sorcerer than the actual pyromancer bloodline.

A couple of questions:

Can I re-flavor the bloodline to be based around elementals instead of dragons? Mechanically, it'd be identical to choosing gold dragon, except for maybe changing the bonus to interactions with dragons to a bonus when interacting with elementals.

Is the alternate fire genasi from Mordekainen's Monsters of the Multiverse ok to use? It allows stat bonuses to be assigned rather than locked into +2 Con and +1 Int, and changes how the granted spells work.

Can you clarify what it means for the bands to be entertainment for people? Is there something like people being able to somehow magically tune into their favorite bands? Or am I reading way too much into the word entertainment and it's just gossip and spreading stories about bands?

[Malara]

I'm down. I've got my eye on a sorcerer that's been doing magic shows since hanging up the wand to capitalize on the fame. Huge ego, attention seeker, and a dash of stereotypical pyromancer traits like a general disregard for collateral damage and a tendency to solve every problem with excessive force. Maybe a fire genasi with the draconic bloodline because I find it's weirdly better at being a fire-based sorcerer than the actual pyromancer bloodline.

A couple of questions:

Can I re-flavor the bloodline to be based around elementals instead of dragons? Mechanically, it'd be identical to choosing gold dragon, except for maybe changing the bonus to interactions with dragons to a bonus when interacting with elementals.

Is the alternate fire genasi from Mordekainen's Monsters of the Multiverse ok to use? It allows stat bonuses to be assigned rather than locked into +2 Con and +1 Int, and changes how the granted spells work.

Can you clarify what it means for the bands to be entertainment for people? Is there something like people being able to somehow magically tune into their favorite bands? Or am I reading way too much into the word entertainment and it's just gossip and spreading stories about bands?

I think a re-skin won't kill anyone.  I'll have to check my copy of MotM before answering on variants though.

And many Bands tend to use magic to broadcast their adventures (or have deals with other mages to let them scry for a share of the profits).  It's like your own camera crew!

[SilkenVenom]

Quick question: when you use the word bands, are you saying they are supposed to be some sort of musical group, or is it more generic use of the term meaning group?

[RedKnight]

Dr.  Time is a Chronomancy Wizard. These days he’s a Professor Emeritus at a prestigious local magical collegium, because it’s as he puts it ‘a target rich environment’. Dr. Time doesn’t actually teach, but he’ll tutor someone for the appropriate incentive.

These days he makes his money endorsing dubious magical devices - if they’re stupid enough to buy it, they deserve it - and being paid to make guest appearances at parties - getting paid to drink and fuck, what could be better.

[Malara]

Quick question: when you use the word bands, are you saying they are supposed to be some sort of musical group, or is it more generic use of the term meaning group?

It's technically a bit of both.  They're adventuring groups, but live the Rockstar lifestyle when they're not actually slaying things.  No actual musical talent needed (unless there's a Bard)

Dr.  Time is a Chronomancy Wizard. These days he’s a Professor Emeritus at a prestigious local magical collegium, because it’s as he puts it ‘a target rich environment’. Dr. Time doesn’t actually teach, but he’ll tutor someone for the appropriate incentive.

These days he makes his money endorsing dubious magical devices - if they’re stupid enough to buy it, they deserve it - and being paid to make guest appearances at parties - getting paid to drink and fuck, what could be better.

And Dr. Time sounds like such a washed-up arrogant douchebag wizard, which i mean in genuinely endearing terms...love it!

[AribethAmkiir]

Elbereth Lúthien is an Elf Cleric of Selûne.  An adventurer for the better part of the last century.  She's been given credit for numerous achievements, and the accolades have piled up.  Originally nothing more than a part time caravan guard.  Elbereth first garnished attention when she helped a Band rescue a small village from marauders.  Her Band continued to meet with success; defeating bandit groups, charting unexplored dungeons and caves, recovering lost artifacts - the normal stuff.  They first earned major renown when they rescued a Duke's three daughters.

For her part Elbereth became somewhat of an idol inadvertently bringing attention to the temples of Selûne.  The arch-priests and other leaders of the Faith decided to capitalize on her growing popularity and invested to publicize her exploits and grow her fame.  Between adventures she'd officiate wedding ceremonies, fertility rituals, blessings for travelers and ship christenings.  The Church was happy with the results of its investment.  Whenever and wherever Elbereth appeared an increase in new Accolytes and followers of Selûne followed.  More pilgrims journeyed to the temples where she'd officiated a ceremony, and donations flooded in.

Ironically, early in her career, Elbereth felt confined by her fame.  The inability to move freely without drawing a crowd interfered with her desire to simply help out of a sense of compassion and empathy.  Over time, she felt the good she did outweighed the inconvenience and recognized the platform she'd been given.  She became an out spoken activist, and a champion for the weak and oppressed.  Often one of the first to organize a charity for one dragon-devastated village or another.  Eventually, the activism and charities became more important than the adventures.  Those who follow her career know she hasn't actually adventured in over a decade.  Few actually cared, though.   She semi-retired half a dozen years ago, to do "mission" work.  Her only major public appearance, in recent memory, was to officiate at some Royal's wedding and coronation.  Of course, her presence outshone the happy couple's, but that was to be expected.

[pdragon]

So I don't get to do high level DnD very often, so I ended up having a lot of ideas. I figured some input could help see which ones fit the tone you're looking for and help narrow them down a bit.

A

bladesinger/artificer

who sacrificed herself during the band's last big battle before they parted ways, only to be brought back to life unbeknownst to everyone, becoming a Reborn. The band getting back together would be the first time she's appeared publicly and revealed she was still alive.


A

Paladin/Warlock

who was very much the "doing it for the art/adventure" type. Years of retirement and celebrity without actually getting to quest and save people has started to drive her insane, so she leaps at the chance to get the band back together.


A

warlock

who has spun her band's fame and popularity into a platform to spread the word of her patron, essentially becoming a celebrity preacher and creating one of the fastest growing religions in the land (perhaps to the point of making the more mainstream religions start to grow concerned). Of course helping to close the rifts and save the world would probably create a big enough boon of converts to establish herself as the new mega pope, so she agrees to help out her old associates.


An "alien" (mechanically a changeling)

druid

who was the mysterious enigma of the group. Due to her shape shifting she's able to control exactly how much time she spends in the public eye, preserving her mystique. Being the innocent and naïve one of the group, she's happy to get the band back together just to meet her old friends again.


A

wizard

who used the fame from the band to establish his own magic academy. He considers the adventuring business bothersome, but reluctantly joins the reunion due to how dire the situation is.

A

storm sorceress/cleric

Full Body (nsfw)

who has spent her retirement indulging in shameless hedonism, feasting and fucking her way through piece of coin they've ever earned. However for as much as she enjoys it, it's started to get a bit stale, and she hopes a quick reunion tour will help reinvigorate her desire to retire.

A

fairy sorceress

who went on to become a famous artist after the end of their adventures. She's especially known for her tattoo work, turning people into "walking murals". She joins back up with the band not just to save the world, but to turn it into an experimental performance art piece.

[Muse]

Name: Gawain Andor
Race/Class: Human/Wizard (Bladesinger)
Sex/Gender: Male, both anatomically and psychologically. 
Kinks: Elbe.  :p  Maidens--submissive is a bonus.  Manipulative villainesses.  Polyamorous.  Slutty monster girls.  No male-on-me, herm-on-me, dog-on-me or horse-on-me please. 
Brief Description: Waves of storm-tossed russet hair and a constant smell of ozone hint at this wizard's affinity for nature's fury.  Gawain is a strong young man who carries a heavy broadsword and tries to keep a variety of lightning effects ready.
  Growing up apprenticed to the printer, Gawain paid for his arcane education by publishing a weekly sheet called Biographies of Heroes.  By the time he was a wizard in his own right, he had gone through all the heroes residing in his hometown--often twice--and attached himself to a Band as their publicist.  He quickly found himself pulling his own weight in combat.  Slowey, Gawain has started to like the fact that he's one of the heroes.  In fact, he liked it quite a bit.  Battle was really exiciting.  Groupies were mega sexy.  Grateful maidens just as much so in their own way, and extra sweet.
Honestly, celebrity was awesome but he really liked just being a hero!  Helping people was it's own reward--the praise and adulation of his fans very much icing on the cake. 
  Also, Gawain still wanted to chronicle.  He loved to write and his favorite topic by far was maidens mighty and magnificent. 
  Gawain is always ready for adventure--doubly so if a damsel is in need. 
  After retirement, Gawain still got into trouble from time to time because he couldn't say no to a damsel in distress--or anyone else in genuine need, really.  He did however, reinvest some of his riches in a much larger publishing house.  Now Gawain publishes his biographies in novel length formats and also publishes plays, poetry and fiction from a variety of authors. 
  Gawain has a tendency to take promising maidens under his wing and--while wooing the sweet young things by night--spends the days getting the girl's new band incredible publicity.  Usually by the time there are no more virgins in the band they've gotten almost as powerful as everyone thinks they are and become wildly popular superstars. 

[Malara]

Elbereth Lúthien is an Elf Cleric of Selûne.  An adventurer for the better part of the last century.  She's been given credit for numerous achievements, and the accolades have piled up.  Originally nothing more than a part time caravan guard.  Elbereth first garnished attention when she helped a Band rescue a small village from marauders.  Her Band continued to meet with success; defeating bandit groups, charting unexplored dungeons and caves, recovering lost artifacts - the normal stuff.  They first earned major renown when they rescued a Duke's three daughters.

For her part Elbereth became somewhat of an idol inadvertently bringing attention to the temples of Selûne.  The arch-priests and other leaders of the Faith decided to capitalize on her growing popularity and invested to publicize her exploits and grow her fame.  Between adventures she'd officiate wedding ceremonies, fertility rituals, blessings for travelers and ship christenings.  The Church was happy with the results of its investment.  Whenever and wherever Elbereth appeared an increase in new Accolytes and followers of Selûne followed.  More pilgrims journeyed to the temples where she'd officiated a ceremony, and donations flooded in.

Ironically, early in her career, Elbereth felt confined by her fame.  The inability to move freely without drawing a crowd interfered with her desire to simply help out of a sense of compassion and empathy.  Over time, she felt the good she did outweighed the inconvenience and recognized the platform she'd been given.  She became an out spoken activist, and a champion for the weak and oppressed.  Often one of the first to organize a charity for one dragon-devastated village or another.  Eventually, the activism and charities became more important than the adventures.  Those who follow her career know she hasn't actually adventured in over a decade.  Few actually cared, though.   She semi-retired half a dozen years ago, to do "mission" work.  Her only major public appearance, in recent memory, was to officiate at some Royal's wedding and coronation.  Of course, her presence outshone the happy couple's, but that was to be expected.

Elbereth seems fun, in a "reluctant social influencer" sort of way!  I don't suppose her favorite high priest is named Beren? :)

Name: Gawain Andor
Race/Class: Human/Wizard (Bladesinger)
Sex/Gender: Male, both anatomically and psychologically. 
Kinks: Elbe.  :p  Maidens--submissive is a bonus.  Manipulative villainesses.  Polyamorous.  Slutty monster girls.  No male-on-me, herm-on-me, dog-on-me or horse-on-me please. 
Brief Description: Waves of storm-tossed russet hair and a constant smell of ozone hint at this wizard's affinity for nature's fury.  Gawain is a strong young man who carries a heavy broadsword and tries to keep a variety of lightning effects ready.
  Growing up apprenticed to the printer, Gawain paid for his arcane education by publishing a weekly sheet called Biographies of Heroes.  By the time he was a wizard in his own right, he had gone through all the heroes residing in his hometown--often twice--and attached himself to a Band as their publicist.  He quickly found himself pulling his own weight in combat.  Slowey, Gawain has started to like the fact that he's one of the heroes.  In fact, he liked it quite a bit.  Battle was really exiciting.  Groupies were mega sexy.  Grateful maidens just as much so in their own way, and extra sweet.
Honestly, celebrity was awesome but he really liked just being a hero!  Helping people was it's own reward--the praise and adulation of his fans very much icing on the cake. 
  Also, Gawain still wanted to chronicle.  He loved to write and his favorite topic by far was maidens mighty and magnificent. 
  Gawain is always ready for adventure--doubly so if a damsel is in need. 
  After retirement, Gawain still got into trouble from time to time because he couldn't say no to a damsel in distress--or anyone else in genuine need, really.  He did however, reinvest some of his riches in a much larger publishing house.  Now Gawain publishes his biographies in novel length formats and also publishes plays, poetry and fiction from a variety of authors. 
  Gawain has a tendency to take promising maidens under his wing and--while wooing the sweet young things by night--spends the days getting the girl's new band incredible publicity.  Usually by the time there are no more virgins in the band they've gotten almost as powerful as everyone thinks they are and become wildly popular superstars.

A PR specialist/bookworm/only-sort-of-scrupulous Band manager?  That's got some potential!

So I don't get to do high level DnD very often, so I ended up having a lot of ideas. I figured some input could help see which ones fit the tone you're looking for and help narrow them down a bit.

A

bladesinger/artificer

who sacrificed herself during the band's last big battle before they parted ways, only to be brought back to life unbeknownst to everyone, becoming a Reborn. The band getting back together would be the first time she's appeared publicly and revealed she was still alive.


A

Paladin/Warlock

who was very much the "doing it for the art/adventure" type. Years of retirement and celebrity without actually getting to quest and save people has started to drive her insane, so she leaps at the chance to get the band back together.


A

warlock

who has spun her band's fame and popularity into a platform to spread the word of her patron, essentially becoming a celebrity preacher and creating one of the fastest growing religions in the land (perhaps to the point of making the more mainstream religions start to grow concerned). Of course helping to close the rifts and save the world would probably create a big enough boon of converts to establish herself as the new mega pope, so she agrees to help out her old associates.


An "alien" (mechanically a changeling)

druid

who was the mysterious enigma of the group. Due to her shape shifting she's able to control exactly how much time she spends in the public eye, preserving her mystique. Being the innocent and naïve one of the group, she's happy to get the band back together just to meet her old friends again.


A

wizard

who used the fame from the band to establish his own magic academy. He considers the adventuring business bothersome, but reluctantly joins the reunion due to how dire the situation is.

A

storm sorceress/cleric

Full Body (nsfw)

who has spent her retirement indulging in shameless hedonism, feasting and fucking her way through piece of coin they've ever earned. However for as much as she enjoys it, it's started to get a bit stale, and she hopes a quick reunion tour will help reinvigorate her desire to retire.

A

fairy sorceress

who went on to become a famous artist after the end of their adventures. She's especially known for her tattoo work, turning people into "walking murals". She joins back up with the band not just to save the world, but to turn it into an experimental performance art piece.

Unfortunately, that does nothing to help me narrow them down since, quite frankly, most of them seem like they could be a lot of fun!  If there's one really calling out to you, develop it!

[Zaer Darkwail]

Here is my pitch, interested on this venture :)

Name: Dalmond Vaelker
Race/Class: Half-Elf Bard(College of Valor)/Warlock(Hexblade)
Sex/Gender: Male, both anatomically and psychologically.
Kinks: besides ons/offs more specific;
Yes: Orgies, Rough-Housing, Polyamorous, Slutty exotic races/monster girls. 
No: Male x me, Bestiality, Necrophilia, Mutilation/Torture, Scat/Vore.
Brief Description: Dalmon Vaelker wears a dark breastplate and long dark cape, but carries no weapons. He conjures any weapons he desires with green ghostly glowing energy which mimics the appearance of past legendary heroes armaments and he usually names each one as he calls them. Sometimes he bears a flaming green fire crown as a result of his magic. He is 6'2'ft tall, lean-built man with one eye missing and covered in an eye patch and the remaining eye is silvery blue. His hair is silvery white and his face bears wrinkles of the middle age for a half-elf but he is still strikingly handsome.

History

Dalmond Vaelker started his life simply as a soldier, who had a knack for performance and keeping spirits up in the military unit he served in. He had grown up on the farm but grown bored with the easygoing life and wanted excitement and did probably the dumbest but most life-defining decision in joining the military what any sane man would do. He had a strong body thanks to farm life but what he lacked was a harsh reality check and the gritty nature of soldier life which was very strict, order-driven, and disciplined he clashed a lot with his superiors, especially when they send him and his friends into very dangerous meat gritty situations.

Only what kept motivations for his unit going into harsh war, were the songs and tales of the Bands and heroes which he had learned in his childhood and learned from books. His inspirational words sparked bardic magic in him and he became quickly the lieutenant of the group who answered to the uncaring captain and commander. He then strived his life purpose to always keep the women and men alive despite what bullshit reasons they are sent to the front lines when he can clearly see better solutions.

His second life-defining moment was in the Battle of Omaskyr, it was a slaughterhouse between four noble factions with gathered followers and mercenaries. It was an out brawl over a sacred landmark in which ownership dictated who was going to be a king as you needed to do some religious ritual in there to be crowned as a king of the lands. He did not care any the nobles or who was going to be a king, but his captain and commander did, and thus uncaring they send him and his men into breaching enemy lines their suggestion was to play it by the rules of conflict; which was bash hard and try raw brute force it. But at that point seeing the opposition being the stronger and likely lead for his death, he instead told he changes sides and has valuable intel to share, betraying his faction.

But the plan was, once he got past the front line and as he was escorted to the opposite side of the conflict, he then knocked out his escort and make a run to the sacred landmark with his soldiers. Their sneaky gambit worked and they raised their side flag up to lay claim but it unleashed hell everyone focusing on him and the soldiers...and his own faction just did nothing. He knows he and his men are going to die so they rummaged the site for anything valuable. In the sacred site, he found a secret chamber, where only a horn remained. He had heard stories and legends of Horn of Heroes(Valhalla), which calls fierce heroes of old to answer the call of the horn. It was said to be the ultimate gambit that the king of the region had done in past and was considered a super weapon. He approached the horn, out of desperation but he was blocked, warded from reaching it. As he hammers his fist against the ward, he then hears a ghostly chorus speak to him. He cannot approach nor claim the horn, unless he devotes himself to heroism and become a hero, to become one future spirit bound to the horn for all eternity upon his death. In return, he is granted the powers of past heroes.

So thus cynical soldier Dalmond laughed bitterly and said; "I am ready to sell my soul to the devil, so if you want me to become a bloody hero to save my own ass so be it!" Despite the cynic remark, his oath was accepted and he got his hands on the horn and he used horns power against the noble factions! Turning battle around the field and the only faction surviving was the one he originally served. He was naturally offered noble titles, knighthood, lands, and wealth all for becoming the sworn subject of the king (the commander's superior, a nobleman's eye for the throne). He, however, refused, as he saw all those things prisons, and shackles and knew the king wanted him to use the horn in his service to conquer lands for him, more than he is capable of ruling or holding even. So he wisely put the horn back where it belonged, but the connection remained. He got 'exiled' for his insult but he did not care.

He then traveled and joined several bands over the centuries, his oath binding and albeit cynical he did respect the heroes of the old and their sacrifices but he acknowledges the foolishness of being a hero on a spiritual level. He can crack jokes and cynical remarks of heroism or deeds of old heroes lacking foresight, but he laughs it off telling he is doing exact same thing as he is self-aware of the stupidity of it all. But he is a man of his own heroic noble code and he keeps up his oath of what he swore in return keeping him alive and he knows what his ultimate fate will be when it all comes to end. Of all heroes, he is the most aggressive and albeit jaded and cynic at times, he continued an active career facing monsters and horrors and inspiring future heroes, adventurers, and bands forming chasing after his own legend and exploits. In an ironic twist; now he would trade it all returning back to his 'boring' childhood. But he can't escape this life even if he wants to, so instead he embraces it.

By the call for a specific band for rifts forming he had a break in form of being visiting instructor at one adventuring academy where he was educating a new generation of students on tactical leadership and tactics.

[AribethAmkiir]

Dunno who Beren is, but "sure?"

[Malara]

Dunno who Beren is, but "sure?"

Tolkien joke.  Luthien and Beren were the first and most famous elf-and-human lovers, and Elrond's either great or great-great-grandparents.  Let me be nerdy!