Psychopathy advocacy

[Blythe]

If you'd allow me to be pendantic, the only thing I disagree with is the "example". That doesn't fit my experience, like at all...but it's also a very minor thing!

Yeah, the example is one of those "will fit some, not all" sorts of things. With personality disorders in particular, examples are rather unlikely to fit a large swath of people. Personal history factors in heavily in these disorders, which makes things more subjective.

Although really, any example where altruism would be a punishable trait in one's youth would work, though, because that's the sort of early life that leads to the maladaptive behaviors in APD.

When your own mother tells you she doesn't love you because she can't, and she refuses to get any help, it's frustrating and extremely hurtful.   

I think it's very reasonable (and not only reasonable, but emotionally healthy) for you to not express compassion for an individual who treats you this way. Anyone who is aware they have a problem that is hurting others but will not seek help? It's okay to decide to let go of that person for your own wellbeing.

[Azy]

I think it's very reasonable (and not only reasonable, but emotionally healthy) for you to not express compassion for an individual who treats you this way. Anyone who is aware they have a problem that is hurting others but will not seek help? It's okay to decide to let go of that person for your own wellbeing.

Pretty much what my therapist has been telling me.  I can't control her, but I can control me, and I have to set firm boundaries.  And this is why I have opinions on this topic, but I admit they are rather biased. 

[Beorning]

First of all: Blythe, thank you for your detailed response. That was really helpful :)

Two things I'm wondering about, if you don't mind:

1. What do you mean by people with ASPD not understanding society's rules? How does it work from their point of view?

2. What do you think is the difference between a person with ASPD and a person who is your everyday d*ck?

As to whether or not people with ASPD deserve empathy - I get what you, Azy and BlueOrange are saying... My sister's partner is a man who certainly has some sort of personality disorder. I can perfectly see that this is a who suffers a lot of internal turmoil... but it's hard for me to empathize with him, as my sister is at the receiving end of the emotional (and, occassionally, physical) abuse he throws around...

[Blythe]

First of all: Blythe, thank you for your detailed response. That was really helpful :)

Two things I'm wondering about, if you don't mind:

1. What do you mean by people with ASPD not understanding society's rules? How does it work from their point of view?

2. What do you think is the difference between a person with ASPD and a person who is your everyday d*ck?

As to whether or not people with ASPD deserve empathy - I get what you, Azy and BlueOrange are saying... My sister's partner is a man who certainly has some sort of personality disorder. I can perfectly see that this is a who suffers a lot of internal turmoil... but it's hard for me to empathize with him, as my sister is at the receiving end of the emotional (and, occassionally, physical) abuse he throws around...

1. Altruism can be a learned trait (and it's part of society's social contract, albeit the unspoken part), though admittedly there is still study/debate on the innateness (or lack thereof) of it. Stanford had something interesting on this a few years ago. Most of us learn this so young we don't even remember why we understand empathy as a core concept. But when you live the sort of young life where you are not taught the basics of altruism (being hurt in situations wherein you show kindness, being hurt in situations in which you did not place yourself first, or simply failing to have a parent who could ingrain needed lessons on altruism), it is possible for a person to develop a worldview where altruism is perceived to be harmful and is not especially innate.

As to your question about how it works from their point of view? I'm the wrong person to ask. I don't have their worldview. You would have to actually ask someone with APD how it feels--or doesn't--for them.

2. Established patterns of behavior, length of time of the behavior, and severity of behavior, to be honest.

In one-off incidents,  there's almost no way of knowing if someone had APD or was just being a dick. Being able to identify APD in someone is contingent on knowing a lot of information to get to that diagnosis, and that's just plain not going to be information a person is likely to have about someone treating them poorly in most one-off incidents.

[BlueOrange]

Pretty much what my therapist has been telling me.  I can't control her, but I can control me, and I have to set firm boundaries.  And this is why I have opinions on this topic, but I admit they are rather biased.

I’m going to join the chorus here.

My father was treated quite brutally by his father, and has PTSD as a result. He has tried to be good to me, but growing up in a house dominated by someone with PTSD was difficult for me. I have PTSD from that.

And my kids (who are now adults) did not have an easy time with me, especially because one of the symptoms of PTSD is denial, and I was in denial about having PTSD (this is actually quite common).

So I fully appreciate the desire to have sympathy towards people with a diagnosis (I like sympathy, and I need it at times), and I can understand the need to be protected from a person with a diagnosis, too.

I love my father. I’ve worked hard to understand him, and I think I understand him pretty well. Most of the good things about me can be traced back to his influence. A month or so ago, I went to the police and the court, and I applied for a restraining order against him. The improvement in my health since then has been dramatic. You might not need a restraining order, but you do have a right to defend yourself from someone that you love.

(I’m mildly embarrassed to be replying to this thread when I owe story replies to two of the participants. I can have conversations about mental health under wet concrete. Creativity requires my brain to be a bit more settled than it is right now.)

[Azy]

I like denial.  It doesn't fix anything...  And yeah, things tend to be passed on from generation to generation.  I got the double prize.  My much older half sisters disowned our father, and I can only guess why based on my experiences. 

[BlueOrange]

Ouch :(

No wonder you’re so kind. You have reasons to need to be kind :/

[Azy]

Part of my journey was finding my spirituality.  I do not consider myself Christian, because I see no use for most of the doctrine, but I do follow the teachings of Jesus.  Treat others as you would wish to be treated.