Coronavirus: Discussion and Information

[RedRose]

I'm a migrainer and just read on a forum that some ended up with a week + migraines. Migraines aren't headaches just to be clear, it's like... a bulb / the sun. I'm terrified of the shot. Not yet my turn but...

[Haibane]

It seems like there's a wide range of reactions. The elderly lady I'm friendly with has had 2x Pfizer shots now and both times nothing more than an aching arm for about a day.

[Oreo]

I'm a migrainer and just read on a forum that some ended up with a week + migraines. Migraines aren't headaches just to be clear, it's like... a bulb / the sun. I'm terrified of the shot. Not yet my turn but...

Yes, mine lasted 3 days, but didn't start until day 2 after the second shot. Flip it, I got the shot and thought everything was okay 24 hours later with no symptoms. About 12 hours later I got tired, the headache and fever started, followed by 24 hours of laying in bed. Then the symptoms were over except for the headache. it lasted two more days.
I am used to migraines due to my Meniere's. My room is total dark because the light ...it hurts us. <_< This one was worse than those headaches.
Even so, I would do it again just to have the relief of not worrying about getting covid every hour of every day. That stress being gone cannot be matched.

[Haibane]

There's some sick people in the human race.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56874018

[Haibane]

A truly awful, awful situation in India now. The medical services are running out of oxygen and collapsing. Patients being turned away from hospitals and dying before they can get a bed or be treated. Terrible, makes me so upset.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/56876695

[Beorning]

It's been brought to my attention that my post wasn't especially clear.  Not all religious folks consider the Pope to be the be-all-end-all the way Roman Catholics are supposed to.

A point of interest: not all Catholics consider the Pope (specifically, Pope Francis), to be the final authority on religious matters. At least here in Poland. Some consider him... ideologically suspect. And heck, even some bishops quietly ignored some aspects of his teachings they didn't like...

There's some sick people in the human race.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56874018

I've read about today. Ugh.

On somewhat related note - I've also read that back here, some antivaxers are engaged in disrupting the vaccination process. I.e. they register for vaccination (blocking that slot for someone else), then don't show up - and happily claim how they managed to waste a dose of a vaccine that way. If it's true, then...     

[Haibane]

Yeah, that's a sick mind at work. I have not too much issue with people who personally don't want the vaccine but actively stopping others from exercising their free choice to be vaccinated ought to be a criminal act. The reverse of that thinking is to force people to have it and look how much uproar that would cause.

I don't think it would waste a dose, however. Presumably the doses are kept refrigerated until needed? Each would be administered to the next person in line, whoever they were and any not used at the end of the day saved for the next session? Also one assumes names and addresses are given and a person could only do that once. If they were to do it multiple times they might find themselves on a "cry wolf" listing.

I feel that the British NHS has chosen a very sound system in that they contact patients and offer them a choice of appointment slots which are booked online via a code, so they know who you are and when and where you will show up. If you are offered an appointment and choose not to book or you do book and not show, then I would assume your name goes on a list of people who've chosen not to be vaccinated. I personally have no issues at all with such a database in the case of a pandemic. The system it seems is to offer vaccines to everyone in each age or risk group by reducing risk so we are now offering jabs to 40+ year olds and 30+ year olds with underlying health issues or exposed risk jobs. I think the offer is only made once and I would hope that after the full cycle is complete, those who didn't respond or who didn't show up would be offered a second appointment. This top-down system aimed at the most vulnerable first seems inherently less wasteful than a bottom-up system of people pro-actively asking for appointments.

[Oreo]

...

On somewhat related note - I've also read that back here, some antivaxers are engaged in disrupting the vaccination process. I.e. they register for vaccination (blocking that slot for someone else), then don't show up - and happily claim how they managed to waste a dose of a vaccine that way. If it's true, then...     

I know in my county if they have extra doses they make calls at the end of the day. I was offered to be a call back, but I am an hour away and you have to be there in 15 minutes.

Still that is a horrible thing to do. I cannot imagine what it must be like living with that kind of pettiness held within.

[Oreo]

Sorry for the double post. Members have been discussing their vaccines and worries here. We have opened a thread in SAS for lifting the spirits and easing fears through sharing. Feel free to take emotional and family concerns there if you like.

[Mechelle]

There was a large anti-lockdown protest in London yesterday (although the lockdown here is easing), at which a number of police officers were hurt, and some of the protesters wore a yellow star. I am not Jewish, but I was offended enough by this and can only start to imagine how upset any Jewish people would be by these self-entitled so and so's who liken their own "suffering" to that experienced by Jews in Nazi Germany,

As is apparent from my other posts, I am no admirer of Boris Johnson, but he is not Adolf Hitler!


https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/anti-lockdown-protesters-wear-nazi-23979308

[Oniya]

I don't think it would waste a dose, however. Presumably the doses are kept refrigerated until needed? Each would be administered to the next person in line, whoever they were and any not used at the end of the day saved for the next session? Also one assumes names and addresses are given and a person could only do that once. If they were to do it multiple times they might find themselves on a "cry wolf" listing.

My sister's wife got her shot because she was at a hospital when they were about to end the day's vaccinations.  If they have a partially filled vial, they will basically ask if anyone wants one.  The partially-used vials can't be put back in refrigeration, and there's 5-6 doses per vial.

This is also a tactic I've seen passed around Twitter:  If you're having trouble getting an appointment, either a) show up at one of the public centers at the end of the day and ask if they have any partials, or b) check your area for the 'reddest' county in driving distance and make your appointment there.

[Chasing Dreams]

The number of covid cases and hospitalizations are climbing in my area again. The hospital I work at had to reopen the second covid unit again and we are at max capacity in both units. We were also informed that all four strains of covid are in my area now and the two newer strains are making younger people really sick.

[TheGlyphstone]

We're up to 4 variants now? I only heard of the one mutation...

[Chasing Dreams]

We're up to 4 variants now? I only heard of the one mutation...

There are four strains of it.  The newer strains of it came from Brazil and England. The hospital told all of us because they want us to be prepared for the craziness that comes with the hospital being at full capacity again and for us to take extra precautions again so we don't end up being short-staffed.

I only know what's going on in my area though.

**I mis-typed. The other strain here is from South Africa.

[Beorning]

My sister's wife got her shot because she was at a hospital when they were about to end the day's vaccinations.  If they have a partially filled vial, they will basically ask if anyone wants one.  The partially-used vials can't be put back in refrigeration, and there's 5-6 doses per vial.
[/quotes]

True. And considering that our government allowed giving out unused vaccines to anyone who wanted them only last week, these antivaxers who registered falsely for vaccination might've well caused some vaccines to be wasted 

One another insane thing Covid deniers did a few times recently: walking into hospitals with no protection, entering wards with cameras and trying to find proof that the pandemic wasn't real... 

[stormwyrm]

And if that results in them getting sick, they will literally deny that COVID-19 is real to their dying breath. Those fools would literally die rather than admit they were wrong, even as the evidence of their error kills them.

[Oniya]

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes:

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/airline-bans-alaska-state-senator-violating-mask-rules-77300719

It wasn't immediately known how Reinbold, who was in southcentral Alaska this weekend, would be able to get to Juneau where the legislative session resumes Monday. No other airline has scheduled flights between Anchorage and Juneau, and a ferry trip could take several days.

[Haibane]

We're up to 4 variants now? I only heard of the one mutation...

The ones I've seen reported in the media are the English, Brazil, South African, Californian and Indian variants. I understand the naming convention corresponds to the places where the mutation was first identified/isolated and not necessarily where it happened. The CDC website has some good information:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/transmission/variant.html

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/scientific-brief-emerging-variants.html?CDC_AA_refVal=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cdc.gov%2Fcoronavirus%2F2019-ncov%2Fmore%2Fscience-and-research%2Fscientific-brief-emerging-variants.html

[RedRose]

There's a strand named for my town... urgh

[Azuresun]

I just discovered this site, which is a handy gathering of debunks for anti-vaxxer lies and disinformation, as well as knocking the halos off the heads of the saints they just love to quote. Highly recommended as a cure for superficially convincing wibble.

[Annaamarth]

I just discovered this site, which is a handy gathering of debunks for anti-vaxxer lies and disinformation, as well as knocking the halos off the heads of the saints they just love to quote. Highly recommended as a cure for superficially convincing wibble.

That is beautiful and you are beautiful.

[Haibane]

Thank you for the link Azuresun, that's very helpful.

[Haibane]

Moving the face-covering exemption discussion over to here from the "What's in the News" thread. My apologies to anyone that this move inconveniences or causes confusion to.

Not in Canada.

The reason this solution has become pretty standard is because anti-mask idiots have tried this ploy many, many times across Canada...

This discussion isn't about anti-mask idiots. They form a clear demographic group separate from those with medical needs. Much of the time they are easily identifiable.

There is no medical reason one cannot be worn per the doctor of the facility. My mother has COPD - she wears a mask. My aunt is severe asthmatic - she wears a mask. If it is a psychological issue then the person needs to stay out of public places or figure out how to wear a mask.

You are using the argument of personal bias here which isn't a valid argument. Just because you happen to know sufferers who can wear face coverings, it does not follow that all sufferers can wear face coverings.

There are many and varied medical reasons why people cannot wear face coverings and should not be made to wear them. To force a severe asthmatic sufferer or a person with acute claustrophobia to cover their face is grotesque. To argue against this is simply gross insensitivity. If a medical doctor told you this then they are either wrong or they were not a properly accredited medical doctor. Either way, I'd be inclined to be highly circumspect about their ethics.

I have no pity for these folks throwing tantrums that their little medical exemption ploy doesn't work.

We are in agreement here, but it seems I do need to make it clear (because a number of posters are going down this line of argument) that the anti-maskers and rule-benders are not under discussion here. I am discussing people who have a real medical need to not have their face covered, so can we please move on from the cheats, liars, scammers and whatever other labels used to describe persons who I am not talking about. Thanks.

We'll fight for those who genuinely cannot wear masks, because they too fall under the same group as us.

Yes. Thank you. We agree.

I can't say that it's impossible that someone might need to keep their face uncovered for medical reasons, but the reasonable accommodation is curbside pickup or (free) personalized shopping assistance.

It does *not* mean "you can keep you face uncovered in the store even if it endangers others."  Nor should it, I think, for the public good.

Their are different rules in different countries, obviously. The UK allows exemptions for certain medical conditions and for children under the age of 11. The rules are clear and practical. They do not just cover medical issues, but security and other matters:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own#exemptions

There are discriminatory grounds and ethics to be considered as well. The UK now has (or possibly "suffers under") a very strict PC-correct culture. Some say it's gone too far, some say not far enough but that's beside the point. We have it and we live with it. In some areas of public life the rights of the individual are upheld in perhaps even wider ways here than in Canada and the USA. Its one reason we allow exemptions. The UK govt. is stalling on taking up the idea of C-19 vaccine passports for these reasons, even though I agree with them and think they are an excellent idea.

In the UK we seem to have a much lower incidence of people arguing in public places - such as shops - about mask-wearing. It happens but generally speaking the UK culture is largely a compliant one. There have been some initiatives to wear an exemption card promoted by the government on the green and yellow sunflower lanyard:

https://hiddendisabilitiesstore.com/hidden-disabilities-face-covering.html

However as others have highlighted in other countries, its also true in the UK that a shop employee has no right to challenge any person and require to see evidence of their medical condition or disability. Not even the police have that right (blue badge parking space infractions excepted). The shop employee does however have the right to refuse entry to the place of retail for any reasonable cause. The law that underlies this rule allows them to deal with drunks and similar troublemakers. The law therefore does empower our shop workers, security, etc to refuse entry, however as I said our culture is a very much more compliant one and the incidences of arguments over mask wearing seem to be, over here, extremely few.

I do not think it takes much training for security staff to be able to differentiate between genuine and non-genuine needs. I go grocery shopping for about two hours each week and visit one of three large supermarkets near me and sometimes two or three small convenience stores in walking distance if I need to grab something quickly. The number of uncovered faces I've encountered inside these shops in the last month or so I can count on the fingers of one hand. So that is eight hours inside major supermarkets among hundreds of shoppers with less than six uncovered faces in that time. Two of these definitely wore the sunflower lanyard and were behaving in a manner that made me comfortable in drawing the conclusion that their needs were genuine. Two others (one youth and one middle-aged man) I felt suspicious about, but in this tiny number of instances it is a very simple thing to stand still and let them pass or move away from them and maintain a good dozen or more feet spacing.

The issue overall is not a crisis nor even adding significantly to the pandemic risk.

Remember I am not advocating non-wearing of masks, and the people this impacts are a very tiny percentage of the population. I mean really tiny. Our retail areas are not full of unmasked people. This is why I support and agree with the UK govt. guidelines on this issue.

[Annaamarth]

Most - again, I cannot say all - medical issues that would make wearing a mask hazardous would seem likely to be comorbod with severe COVID.

Perhaps the UK guidance is more relaxed for very good reasons, but I prefer the safer "please, give us your shoppingnlist and we can shop for you, this is a complentary service we are happy to offer."

I may have strong feelings in part because I live around so many who flagrantly abuse such things.

I do not think it takes much training for security staff to be able to differentiate between genuine and non-genuine needs.

I disagree. A layperson should not be expected to be able to substitute as a doctor - I say this having been security.  At least in the US, making such a judgement must then accept liability for that judgement and there are too many invisible disabilities for a layperson to be able to consider at a glance.

Having had that job, I wouldn't want that burden. Please, just take a seat in your car or on a bench outside, and let us do the shopping for you. Or call ahead, or place an online order.

This is why I support and agree with the UK govt. guidelines on this issue.

You are right to! It may not be correct for me, or ideal in many ways, but it's good to support the measures that are in place.

I don't argue from a place of "you're wrong," but because I believe in the safer path as long as it is reasonably acheivable.

Again, I don't say that it's impossible that someone might not be able to wear a mask safely - I am not a doctor.  I simply don't believe their right to not wear a mask should trump everyone elses right to a safe(ish) environment.

[Lilias]

Meanwhile in Florida... Is this the education Americans go into debt for?

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/04/florida-private-school-threatens-jobs-teachers-who-seek-covid-19-vaccines