Bookburning 2019

[Beorning]

So, this just happened in Poland:

https://www.irishpost.com/news/catholic-priests-publicly-burn-harry-potter-books-hindu-symbols-sacrilegious-items-poland-165662

Basically: a group of Catholic priests publicly burned a pile of items (collected from their followers) they deemed as connected to occultism and magic. The items included everything from a Hello Kitty umbrella (because, you know, Hello Kitty is satanic) to Harry Potter and Twilight books, to Hindu figurines.

This is just... heart-breaking. What kind of mentality do priests in my country promote?

BTW. Defacing religious items is actually punishable by law. I wonder if these priests get prosecuted... although, no, I'm sure they won't be. In Poland, you can be prosecuted only for offending Christian / Catholic religious beliefs, not any others :(

[Blythe]

...man, it's creepy when something in the modern era reminds me of the Bonfire of the Vanities.

Poland's far-right government and extremist religious behavior continues to scare the shit out of me the more I read about it. :/

[gaggedLouise]

The burning of books is an act thick with the symbolism of thought control, cultural repression or blanking out - and fear of any kind of free speech. I hate it, whether it's in Berlin in 1933, the 1992 targeted bombing of the Bosnian National Library at Sarajevo - or the fire at the National Museum of Brazil last year, one that destroyed loads of unique books, research manuscripts and heritage relating to the history of Brazil and its cultures, and essentially caused by neglect and lack of upkeep. Or burning and looting in captured cities, schools and monasteries.

"Where they begin burning books, in the end they will go on to burning people" - German-Jewish poet Heinrich Heine

[karkas132]

I've noticed a lot of rather frightening trends coming out of Ireland recently, like the recent court case in which a womans rapists were let free because she had been wearing lace panties when they assaulted her and now book burnings? This is a huge concern for me, both of these issues just send up red flags all over, I disagree with any and all book burning and the burning of holy symbols I think that Ireland needs a good ol' fashioned peaceful revolution. It is unfortunate that in heavily Catholic countries things like this are still considered acceptable...

[HairyHeretic]

The book burning was Poland, not Ireland. I recall the other story you're talking about though, and most everyone I know who heard it thought it was equally ludicrous. Trust me, Ireland is way less catholic than it used to be.

[karkas132]

My mistake, either way book burning is a reprehensible act and I will oppose it in all its forms, whether its burning fiction novels, to burning novels that might actually deserve to be burned (like mein kampf) i'll still oppose it information is valuable even if its bad information we cant learn from our mistakes if we erase them.

[Lilias]

In the era of mass printing and digitisation, book burning has next to zero actual restrictive power. It is entirely a performative gesture of intent, sending a message, and the message comes across loud and clear.

The RCC has a long history of bedding down with fascists, and it doesn't look like a purge is coming any time soon.

[Scribbles]

The one and only Catholic rule; if it feels good, stop!

Jokes aside, I've never understood how some people can so easily resort to destruction as a solution...

[Beorning]

The only good thing about this situation is that there was a lot of comments under the FB post by the priest who organized this event (and, actually, posted the pictures of the burning books and other objects) - and the vast majority of them, even those written by the Catholics, were words of absolute shock. Also, the act was condemned by at least some other priests, as well as by some Catholic journalists of the more moderate variety. One of them has written a long, long FB rant about the idiocy and un-Christian nature of what happened.

On the other hand, the officials from the diocese where this book burning took place made a statement in the vein of "good message, bad form". As in, book burning is wrong, but "spiritual threats" are out there etc. Hm.

[gaggedLouise]

The one and only Catholic rule; if it feels good, stop!

Jokes aside, I've never understood how some people can so easily resort to destruction as a solution...

"I wanted to be the first person to have computer software burned in the Bible Belt, which is a rite of passage I feel any new medium has to pass through"

-Douglas Adams on his mid-1980s projected computer game "God" (which would include multiple different competing gods and their adherents). The game never emerged as a finished product, so no burnings happened.

[stormwyrm]

The funny thing is that the official Vatican newspaper L'Osservatore Romano actually gave the Half-Blood Prince movie a positive review, after being rather ambivalent about the series in the past.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-vatican-harrypotter-sb/vatican-finally-gives-harry-potter-its-blessing-idUSTRE56D5DI20090715

The Vatican newspaper gave a favorable review to the latest film, “Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince” after giving the lead character a decisive thumbs down in the past.

The review said the new film “reaches the right balance,” thanks to a “a clear line of demarcation between those who work for good and those who carry out evil.”

And they had even louder praise for the final film of the series:

https://catholicherald.co.uk/news/2011/07/13/vatican-newspaper-praises-new-harry-potter-film/

In the second review, Antonio Carriero reaffirmed one point Vatican reviewers have made since the Harry Potter books first appeared in Italian: the story captured the imagination of millions of children around the world and got them reading books.

And, he said, the saga championed values that Christians and non-Christians share and provided opportunities for Christian parents to talk to their children about how those values are presented in a special way in the Bible.

[Cognitive Brainfart]

The only good thing about this situation is that there was a lot of comments under the FB post by the priest who organized this event (and, actually, posted the pictures of the burning books and other objects) - and the vast majority of them, even those written by the Catholics, were words of absolute shock. Also, the act was condemned by at least some other priests, as well as by some Catholic journalists of the more moderate variety. One of them has written a long, long FB rant about the idiocy and un-Christian nature of what happened.

On the other hand, the officials from the diocese where this book burning took place made a statement in the vein of "good message, bad form". As in, book burning is wrong, but "spiritual threats" are out there etc. Hm.

Was mentioned here as well (Slovakia), but the news was very neutral about it - they informed and didn't give an opinion. It also appeared on Facebook but man, that was a proper shit show. A lot of extremely religious people here think it's cool that church in Poland is standing up against religious oppression 'from the extreme liberals' (yes, people truly believe that).

Fucking insane if you ask me. Religion needs to fuck off out of any state affairs, full stop. I really hope this situation will change in Poland :/

[Beorning]

Religious oppression from extreme liberals? In Poland??? Seriously...

[TheGlyphstone]

Now I'm wondering what an 'extreme liberal' in Poland looks like. Someone who only goes to mass once a week instead of twice or more?

[Skynet]

China, the Soviet Bloc, and many Communist organizations define liberalism as someone in favor of laissez-faire capitalism, which in US terms can include everyone from Ronald Reagan to Jimmy Carter.

Granted, Poland was always the "trouble child" of the Soviet Union, so they could also have adopted more Western terminology too.

[stormwyrm]

In Catholic terms, "liberal" tends to connote Liberation Theology, a movement within the Church that strongly emphasises the social teachings of Christianity. They tend to care more about helping the poor and the oppressed than strict adherence to dogma, and this has gotten them labelled Marxist and persecuted, especially by the right-wing dictatorships of South and Central America where the movement originated. It's been rather controversial within the Church to say the least.

[Tolvo]

China, the Soviet Bloc, and many Communist organizations define liberalism as someone in favor of laissez-faire capitalism, which in US terms can include everyone from Ronald Reagan to Jimmy Carter.

Granted, Poland was always the "trouble child" of the Soviet Union, so they could also have adopted more Western terminology too.

It's more of a leftist way of looking at it in general. Liberals often being seen as very center, the not left not right. Usually keeping up an image of being progressive while still supporting and keeping all of the institutions that are conservative. Since leftists can't really be capitalists anyone who believes in and supports capitalism would be seen as at the least a liberal in this sense if the person claims to be left wing. And usually liberal is used derisively and connected to Imperialism and supporting regressive and conservative politics. It's a part of why there is some animosity over Bernie Sanders since a lot of pop-leftism likes him even though he's very much a liberal and is not a socialist or a leftist.

[TheGlyphstone]

It's more of a leftist way of looking at it in general. Liberals often being seen as very center, the not left not right. Usually keeping up an image of being progressive while still supporting and keeping all of the institutions that are conservative. Since leftists can't really be capitalists anyone who believes in and supports capitalism would be seen as at the least a liberal in this sense if the person claims to be left wing. And usually liberal is used derisively and connected to Imperialism and supporting regressive and conservative politics. It's a part of why there is some animosity over Bernie Sanders since a lot of pop-leftism likes him even though he's very much a liberal and is not a socialist or a leftist.

Isn't the "center" a highly subjective point by default, though? Outright socialists are going to consider, as you said, anyone who doesn't insist on the abolishment of capitalism to not be 'left' like they are. Conservatives think anyone who doesn't want to ban abortion is more 'left' than they are. So who gets the privilege of officially defining where the 'center' from which left and right are determined?

[Tolvo]

There are sort of like two centers. There probably could be another term that is used or will develop. But there are people who are in between left and right, and there are people who are comprised of left and right. These can have crossover, but can also be their own separate views. And sparks discussion on who is really left and who is really right. For instance things like "No True Scotsman." "You can't be left wing if you're homophobic." Except you can, that dichotomy is rooted in economics. You can be a homophobic socialist, it just tends to be that the left is progressive and the right is conservative, because the general philosophies enforce it more. If you are about the rights of everyone you're probably going to consider the rights of people who are marginalized for reasons other than economic ones. If you care more about capital and the ability for people to be as rich as possible you probably aren't going to care about what those people do to marginalized communities and how people are exploited. And having mixtures of both often mean neither will like you and that you'll be forced to deal with believing in contradictory things. "I believe in the rights of gay people and mentally ill and disabled people, but also I'm fine with homelessness which predominantly targets queer people, mentally ill people, and disabled people."

[Beorning]

From my experience, the "extreme liberal", when used by religious people (at least over here), means someone who's against tradition, the Church and strict morality - and if favour of free sex, LGBT rights, abortion. atheism and general lack of morality...

[Skynet]

From my experience, the "extreme liberal", when used by religious people (at least over here), means someone who's against tradition, the Church and strict morality - and if favour of free sex, LGBT rights, abortion. atheism and general lack of morality...

So they're in favor of paid sex?

[Lustful Bride]

So they're in favor of paid sex?

Of course, they used to call it indulgences