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Author Topic: Brexit  (Read 3113 times)

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Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #75 on: September 30, 2018, 05:22:45 PM »
Theresa May comes up with the goofy idea of a "National Brexit Festival" in 2022 (when the transition period is supposed to end) to celebrate the once-in-a-lifetime moment when Britain truly "broke free" and reaffirmed its identity. Oh yeah??!

The lady even has the dull wit to invoke the 1851 World Exhibition as a comparison - the massive expo for industry, technology and the arts that was launched when Britain was the leading country in the world, both in trade, tech and industry, and when  the Victorian empire was gathering steam. Hah!

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/09/30/europe/brexit-festival-intl/index.html

One guy on twitter suggests some ideas for the entertainment in 2022: https://twitter.com/davidschneider/status/1046321028199317504/photo/1 :D

Offline Mechelle

Re: Brexit
« Reply #76 on: October 01, 2018, 05:06:04 PM »
At the Conservative party conference, Foreign Secretary Jeremy Hunt, in his bid to court popularity with right-wing Conservative activists, has caused some offence by likening the European Union to the Soviet Union because it is difficult to leave. Hunt apparently voted to remain but has since changed his mind. Whether that's related to his ambition to lead the party, I can't say.

It's particularly offensive bearing in mind the unqualified support given by the EU following the death of a British citizen indirectly at the hands of Russian operatives in Salisbury, and the fact that European Council President Donald Tusk was imprisoned by the Polish Communist government.

Offline Mechelle

Re: Brexit
« Reply #77 on: October 02, 2018, 02:38:36 PM »
Nice observation, they do like to speak in that kind of flashy and fluffy hyperbole, emotionally charged but usually low on actuial content - or hinting downright falsehoods.

And apparently Johnson hasn't even thought about the other most famous year of British history, 1603 - when Queen Bess died without any children and was succeeded on the throne by a younger relative of the Scottish queen she'd had beheaded sixteen years earlier. Nice reversal. :)

Or by the way, when Henry VII became the first Tudor king, it was with heavy support of French troops and defeating a crowned English king, Richard III - whose soldiers and knights were then declared traitors to the country for having done their duty. :( Foreign interference, anyone?

We had a very good example of this at the Conservative Party Conference today, when, in his speech, Boris Johnson warned that he believed Theresa May could be prosecuted under the Statute of Praemunire if her Chequers agreement went through. This 14th century law was aimed at preventing the Pope in particular, but also any other foreign ruler, from exerting undue influence on English soil, such as appointing bishops without the king's permission.

All very erudite and even a Latin term too, which he and his fans would enjoy, but with his usual attention to detail, Johnson failed to notice that this law was repealed in 1967.

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #78 on: October 02, 2018, 03:05:55 PM »
We had a very good example of this at the Conservative Party Conference today, when, in his speech, Boris Johnson warned that he believed Theresa May could be prosecuted under the Statute of Praemunire if her Chequers agreement went through. This 14th century law was aimed at preventing the Pope in particular, but also any other foreign ruler, from exerting undue influence on English soil, such as appointing bishops without the king's permission.

All very erudite and even a Latin term too, which he and his fans would enjoy, but with his usual attention to detail, Johnson failed to notice that this law was repealed in 1967.

There are still some local Viking age legal systems at work in the UK and on the Isle of Man (which is not part of the UK proper, but of Britain). British law indeed is an amazing patchwork! :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Udal_law

Offline Mechelle

Re: Brexit
« Reply #79 on: October 02, 2018, 03:30:31 PM »
Yes, when Scotland and England (which included Wales) joined in 1707 to form the United Kingdom, the Scottish lawyers, out of self-preservation, ensured that Scotland retained its own separate legal system.

I didn't know about the Udal law, but Manx law was very controversial as it maintained corporal punishment and a ban on homosexuality long after they were removed in the UK.

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #80 on: October 02, 2018, 03:34:38 PM »
Yes, when Scotland and England (which included Wales) joined in 1707 to form the United Kingdom, the Scottish lawyers, out of self-preservation, ensured that Scotland retained its own separate legal system.

I didn't know about the Udal law, but Manx law was very controversial as it maintained corporal punishment and a ban on homosexuality long after they were removed in the UK.

On the Isle of Man - talk about a funny coincidence... :)

Offline Oniya

Re: Brexit
« Reply #81 on: October 02, 2018, 04:36:07 PM »
On the Isle of Man - talk about a funny coincidence... :)

For some reason, I'm now reminded of the old word-play from Piers Anthony:  Isle of View.

Offline Mechelle

Re: Brexit
« Reply #82 on: October 02, 2018, 05:04:55 PM »
On the Isle of Man - talk about a funny coincidence... :)

Yes, I suppose it is, although having visited the island for the first time this summer, I know it gets its name from the god Manannan. :)

Well worth a visit, especially the town of Peel, and I would go there again.



Offline Mechelle

Re: Brexit
« Reply #83 on: October 16, 2018, 05:09:11 PM »
A number of brexiters appear to be evoking the spirit of Boudicca, the first century queen of the Iceni, as a symbol of their opposition to Europe.

Apart from the fact that I always felt these right-wing public school types were always more sympathetic to the Roman conquerors, their fellow imperialists, rather than any British resistance, Boudicca may not be a great omen, as, after burning Londinium/London to the ground, she was eventually defeated by the Romans and (probably) committed suicide.

I thought a classicist like Boris Johnson may have known that, but maybe, just maybe, they want to be defeated to propagate a tale of betrayal and heroic failure, like Boudicca, and justify their continued existence, rather than expose their lack of a plan.

Meanwhile, although we haven't actually left Europe, of course, the economy seems to be doing pretty well.

Offline Eye of HorusTopic starter

Re: Brexit
« Reply #84 on: October 17, 2018, 04:29:07 AM »
I wouldn’t be surprised. It’s possible that this was Johnson’s plan in the original 2016 referendum, too: lose narrowly but be held up as a hero by angry, thwarted Eurosceptics, thus bouying him towards a leadership bid. It all started going to shit when they actually won, which led to Cameron’s resignation, a frenzy of backstabbing, people ducking out to avoid the poisoned chalice of delivering impossible Brexit promises, and the stubborn but ineffectual May becoming prime minister purely by virtue of being the last woman standing.
 
Johnson is a confident, habitual and conscience-less liar. It says something that someone has pointed out that one of May’s weaknesses in the Brexit arena is that she can’t lie as well as Johnson, Gove and Rees Mogg when she gets called out on her failings.
 
It does, however, bring me a certain amount of relief to see that Johnson’s approval rating is tanking, alongside Rees Mogg’s and that of the Tory party in general.
 
Meanwhile, in the crazy world of Brexit Britain...
 
EC president Donald Tusk says he is “not optimistic” about a deal being reached in time, despite giving the UK an extra day’s grace to hammer out a decision at home. We are in the same place we have been for two years, with the EU asking the same questions and the UK dithering over the answers.
 
The crackpot DUP propping up May’s government happen to agree with Tusk. This is not surprising given that they are one of the premier wreckers of the Brexit talks, with their mutually exclusive demands for an exit from the EU, no hard border with Ireland, and no difference in rules between the UK and Northern Ireland.
 
Pressure grows on the police to press ahead[/ul] with criminal investigations into Vote Leave, as recommended by the Electoral Commission earlier this year.
 
It is the opinion of the EU budget chief that even if Brexit were to be halted, there would be lasting impacts - namely, that the UK would [url=https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-budget-rebate-gunther-oetinger-second-referendum-remain-a8580616.html]lose its existing rebate
from contributions to the Common Agricultural Policy. Yay!

Regarding the economy, I was baffled to see that the government’s latest advice to companies in the event of a no-deal Brexit is literally to divest from Britain and move to the EU.

Offline Eye of HorusTopic starter

Re: Brexit
« Reply #85 on: October 17, 2018, 04:32:10 AM »
Shit, I fucked up the links there. Last three paragraphs should read:
 
Pressure grows on the police to press ahead with criminal investigations into Vote Leave, as recommended by the Electoral Commission earlier this year.
 
It is the opinion of the EU budget chief that even if Brexit were to be halted, there would be lasting impacts - namely, that the UK would lose its existing rebate from contributions to the Common Agricultural Policy. Yay!

Regarding the economy, I was baffled to see that the government’s latest advice to companies in the event of a no-deal Brexit is literally to divest from Britain and move to the EU.

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #86 on: October 17, 2018, 03:32:36 PM »
Yes, I suppose it is, although having visited the island for the first time this summer, I know it gets its name from the god Manannan. :)

Well worth a visit, especially the town of Peel, and I would go there again.


Theresa May and the "hard Brexit" camp have insisted all the time that London can't accept a settlement where Northern Ireland remains in the customs union or the common market, because "we are not going to begin carving up the country". But come on, places like the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands have long had a special status, the other way around - they're part of Great Britain but not part of UK territory, and not really part of the EU. Why is it so impossible for them to even consider a special arrangement for Northern Ireland, when the political stakes of not doing it are so high, and when most people in NI (and in Eire) actually want to keep the border open and soft.  ::)

Offline HairyHeretic

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #87 on: October 17, 2018, 04:12:10 PM »
Because the DUP are the only thing keeping the Tories in power, so they have to give them what they want.

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #88 on: October 17, 2018, 04:17:38 PM »
Because the DUP are the only thing keeping the Tories in power, so they have to give them what they want.

And the DUP actually want a hard border at all costs?  :-(

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #89 on: October 17, 2018, 04:39:19 PM »
Googled a little. Apparently the DUP claim not to want a hard border on Ireland, it's just that they are dead set against any kind of "special conditions package" for Northern Ireland (even though this kind of idea is not at all new to Britain).

On the other hand, this very shrewd observation from a guy at Quora:

Quote
It’s very interesting that the DUP, as a ‘point of principle’, refuse to be treated differently from the rest of the UK…. except when it comes to gay marriage or abortion. Then they insist on it….

Indeed.  :P

https://www.quora.com/Does-the-DUP-want-a-hard-border-with-Ireland-considering-they-want-to-be-out-of-the-custom-union


Offline HairyHeretic

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #90 on: October 17, 2018, 04:40:59 PM »
The DUP want nothing that could in any way make Northern Ireland separate from the rest of the UK, in any way, shape or form.

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #91 on: October 17, 2018, 04:52:59 PM »
The DUP want nothing that could in any way make Northern Ireland separate from the rest of the UK, in any way, shape or form.

They must have lost all memory of what their region was like before the mid-90s: terrorism, bombings, tribal hatred, poverty. Stuff that really set them apart from - the rest of the UK. :)

Offline Mechelle

Re: Brexit
« Reply #92 on: October 17, 2018, 05:43:53 PM »
The DUP's thought processes are very odd to any outsider.

Meanwhile, it looks like, with no real progress being made, the transitional arrangements will continue for a further year to allow more time to arrange a deal, although we have no influence while we remain. This might split the Brexiters between the pragmatic ones who would accept this, and the extremists who want out at all costs.

I doubt Theresa May has a "plan" but just wants to delay everything until something may turn up.

Offline Mechelle

Re: Brexit
« Reply #93 on: November 01, 2018, 07:22:30 PM »
Aaron Banks, the funder of the unofficial Leave EU campaign (there was a separate official one) is now subject to an investigation by the National Crime Agency over his Brexit spending.

There have been calls for Brexit to be postponed while this is investigated. The source of Banks's money is unclear but fingers are often pointed in Russia's direction, but we will see - perhaps.

Offline Eye of HorusTopic starter

Re: Brexit
« Reply #94 on: November 05, 2018, 10:33:26 AM »
I would not be surprised - many Tory doners, like the party they represent, have deep links to Russian oligarchs. It’s an international rich-boys’ club. The fact that London is perhaps the money-laundering capital of the world probably doesn’t hurt either.

This investigation won’t halt Brexit, and likely won’t result in any serious consequences for the accused either, but it will deepen existing resentments.

Offline Mechelle

Re: Brexit
« Reply #95 on: November 05, 2018, 03:46:47 PM »
I saw Arron Banks interviewed on both BBC and Sky News yesterday. No telling blows were landed, but he also seemed very evasive, changing, or has he put it, "expanding upon", his story, while firing off smears at political opponents who weren't present. Surprisingly enough, he has been quoted that he would have voted for Remain now, considering the demons which Brexit has unleashed, and confirmed that in the interview. That may be a move towards blaming Theresa May for failing to achieve a true Brexit, which would be a bit ungrateful as she apparently chose not to investigate him before the referendum, in case a court case influenced the result.

Here is a clip of what happened when Channel 4 tried an unplanned interview with him.


https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2323806657864791&id=6622931938&_rdr

Offline Missy

Re: Brexit
« Reply #96 on: November 05, 2018, 07:33:24 PM »
We already know Nigel Farage has connections to Putin, it's prettymuch a known fact that a large part of the division in modern western society is spurred on by the Kremlin. The only reason many people don't accept the facts is the strength of the kayfabe now.

Offline Eye of HorusTopic starter

Re: Brexit
« Reply #97 on: November 06, 2018, 12:48:53 PM »
Here is a clip of what happened when Channel 4 tried an unplanned interview with him.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2323806657864791&id=6622931938&_rdr

The smarmy, passive-aggressive arrogance of the man is just rage inducing. And as a leading Brexiteer he has some chutzpah to call Channel 4 “leading purveyors of fake news”. I believe Channel 4 is one of the better rated news outlets (granted, this poll is of a limited number of people, and is based on perception, but at least Channel 4 have a fact checking section).

Offline Mechelle

Re: Brexit
« Reply #98 on: November 08, 2018, 06:01:03 PM »
Dominic Raab, the recently appointed Brexit secretary,has said that he hadn't quite understood how reliant the UK was on the Dover-Calais crossing for trade.

At least he knows it now, but I would have thought it was obvious to anyone from a map. I am not sure if I am more surprised by his not knowing, or for him being so open about admitting it.

Offline Mechelle

Re: Brexit
« Reply #99 on: Yesterday at 05:09:58 PM »
It is a strange time tonight as Mrs May is presenting details of the Brexit agreement to her cabinet ministers privately, one by one. Nobody knows exactly what it entails but this hasn't stopped remainers, the Democratic Unionist Party nor the extremist brexiteers from decrying it. Boris Johnson has said it would mean the loss of our ancient sovereignty after all these years, which is odd as I thought he had said that Brexit was a chance to regain our sovereignty after it had been lost to the EU. Of course, he is a pseudo-intellectual charlatan.

Incidentally, the last Prime Minister to speak to her cabinet members one by one was Margaret Thatcher in 1990, just before she lost power...