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Author Topic: PewDiePie and the bad word dramaz  (Read 5583 times)

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Offline Cognitive BrainfartTopic starter

PewDiePie and the bad word dramaz
« on: September 14, 2017, 06:27:51 PM »
So most of you probably heard about the most recent PewDiePie dramaz.

If you don't know, the TL;DR version is that PewDiePie was playing some sort game on a live stream and, upon getting annoyed, he blurted out: "What a fucking nigger." at his opponent or whoever he was shooting at. He apologized right after and, later, he even made a video where he apologized again.

Of course, as these things go, it caused a massive drama where some people are condemning him to hell because he dared say "the n word", other people are defending him by saying it was a heat-of-the-moment reaction and he apologized, and some don't give a rat's arse.

I don't really care about PewDiePie, don't watch him and such, but I'm interested in your opinions on this. Do you think it's something to get worked up about? Do you think the reaction of the media/public is justified? Do you think it doesn't matter that he said the word in the heat of the moment? Is it ok because he apologized? I'm curious to hear your thoughts. Of course, I have my own thoughts but I want to hear yours :)

You can find the video here:
Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

You can find the apology video here:
Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

Offline Lustful Bride

Re: PewDiePie and the bad word dramaz
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2017, 07:21:46 PM »
Considering how he has gotten in trouble before with the whole 'kill all jews' thing, he should know better by now.

But when all you get is a slap on the wrist and many fans defending you, how can he be expected to learn? I'm pretty sure a few months from now he will do something else and itl be all back to square one again.

Its like a child who thinks that just saying 'Sorry' will make everything better. Especially when they repeat the behavior over and over again. I don't think hes a racist, but hes an idiot who loves to court controversy, despite how bad of an effect it had on many youtubers getting flagged and their channels damaged by the kneejerk system the YT staff put in place to filter out bad content. But all the system does is fail as hard as YT's copyright system.

Offline Blythe

Re: PewDiePie and the bad word dramaz
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2017, 07:27:51 PM »
My opinion is that he knows better.

Apologies ring hollow when it's someone who's been involved in racial controversy before, who knows what is and is not appropriate behavior, and then just sort of keeps at the same inappropriate behavior.

I'm pretty sure a few months from now he will do something else and itl be all back to square one again.

Completely agreed.

Offline WindFish

Re: PewDiePie and the bad word dramaz
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2017, 07:35:13 PM »
If this was just an one time thing, then I might be inclined to accept his apology, but the guy has a pattern of racist behavior. Remember all the Nazi jokes (I recall him even giving the Hitler salute at one point) and the "kill all Jews" thing? This is a recurring thing for him that he can't seem to escape. I suspect that he is a racist. Whether he knows it or not is up for debate, but when he keeps doing these things, it does establish a clear pattern.

I don't watch him, but I do watch other Let's Players who do more than simply scream at the game and make racist jokes. He's giving the Let's Play community, and by extension gamers, YouTube, and the game developers a bad name. I honestly can't blame people for wanting to distance themselves from him. Sure, he may have helped to put Let's Plays on the map, but there are others who have been doing it longer and better than him. He's more of a liability at this point to the community.

It seems that no matter how many times he does something like this, his fans and the apologists will be right there to defend him. He has no reason to change his behavior., especially since he thinks that being "edgy" will help shed his "kiddie" image. Sadly, I don't see him getting better and I'm sure he'll get involved in another controversy in another week.

Offline DelightfullyMAD

Re: PewDiePie and the bad word dramaz
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2017, 07:39:17 PM »
I both agree and disagree on this point.  I'm not really a fan of Pewdiepie, and some of his shenanigans have definitely toed the line of what is good taste.  That being said, what does that say about the rest of us when we (in general) get so bent out of shape over this sort of thing?  Has he said tasteless things in the past?  Oh, definitely, and I don't defend them in the slightest.  But I do think that, given the social climate that has been steadily building over the last decade or so, these sorts of things are given way more attention than they actually deserve.  The general idea is that we are supposed to be moving beyond all this nonsense, yet if we just keep falling back whenever someone says something in poor taste, we'll never get anywhere.  There has to come a time when we, as a society, just stop giving stuff like this the sort of attention it gets, and instead learn to just shrug our shoulders and realize this sort of stuff for what it is; harmless.

Yes, Pewdiepie courts controversy, especially lately, and I do think that there is a certain sense of untouchability (not a word, I know) in his actions.  But honestly, the main reason people like him even do this sort of thing is because the rest of society is going to loose their collective minds over it.  If most people just shrugged their shoulders and paid it little mind, then a lot of this would loose it's power.  Hell, Morgan Freeman himself basically said that the best way to solve this problem in our society is to stop talking about it, to stop giving it the sort of attention that it's getting.  And I personally think he's right.

Simply put, I think people are addicted to drama, and like any addiction, it's not healthy.


Offline Cognitive BrainfartTopic starter

Re: PewDiePie and the bad word dramaz
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2017, 10:41:53 PM »
Uh, I didn't realize it would be considered a controversy, so sorry for posting in the wrong topic.

If this was just an one time thing, then I might be inclined to accept his apology, but the guy has a pattern of racist behavior. Remember all the Nazi jokes (I recall him even giving the Hitler salute at one point) and the "kill all Jews" thing? This is a recurring thing for him that he can't seem to escape. I suspect that he is a racist. Whether he knows it or not is up for debate, but when he keeps doing these things, it does establish a clear pattern.

I can definitely see where you're coming from when you say that. Personally, it just seems to me that he does it for the drama. I don't think he's truly a racist. Even someone who isn't a racist in real life can say something controversial on the internet to get a reaction. Especially if they're in the spotlight for it. You know, saying something just because people know damn well that race issues will always make someone pissed, not because they actually believe it.

Edit:
I completely agree with DelightfullyMAD. Some of the stuff he did was very much in poor taste, though it's generally thought that on the internet, nothing is sacred and so these kinds of jokes are more... allowable I suppose. Even if some stuff was in poor taste, like I said, I think people going crazy about it (especially big media) is a bit of an overreaction. If people give too much attention to something, it will never go away. It's like they say, "don't feed the troll" or in this case, don't feed the topic. To me, words have only as much power as people give them.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 10:49:06 PM by Cognitive Brainfart »

Offline Exaelitus

Re: PewDiePie and the bad word dramaz
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2017, 10:44:35 PM »
I prefer to lurk, and before you read this, realize I type as fast as I can talk, so this may turn in to a novel without my knowledge, where it only takes two minutes for me to say, but I did want to say this:

Quote
I'm not really a fan of Pewdiepie, and some of his shenanigans have definitely toed the line of what is good taste.

Apologies are reserved for spilling a glass of water or stepping on someone's foot when boarding in a packed train. It does not matter if he knew what is acceptable or not. Ignorance or intention is not an excuse to do something wrong: There are some places in the world where women are murdered by their fathers for listening to rock music. "Sorry I know better now" does not cut it. Actions convey you are sorry: looking out on the train for people's toes from this day forward or taking the spilled water moment and maybe holding the glass with two hands says you are sorry. Words are nothing. So he said something about nazis and jews before and apologized for it? Well then maybe he should have used his status to provoke donations to victims of hate crimes instead of using people's pain to remain relevant. That's how you say you are sorry.

Next,

Quote
just stop giving stuff like this the sort of attention it gets, and instead learn to just shrug our shoulders and realize this sort of stuff for what it is; harmless

I totally disagree. Prejudice happens because of the lack of exposure. Most often it is not personalized moment between a singular person and an entire group of people. Even accidental prejudice is based on ignorance. If someone says "This cop was being such a fag for giving me a parking ticket." Sure, to some labels like fag or gay on every day events that displease them mean just that, and to some, they can decide it is not offensive--just like I can, too. But I choose not to, because I have personal experience keeping a friend from killing himself when he was disowned by his family for coming out, or a roommate of mine moved in after previous living conditions entailed a straight man he lived with came home one night, climbed in to the shower (while he was already in it), and told him to get on his knees or else. Police involvement happened, and he found himself homeless in a minute, because his name was not on the lease. So when you say someone is 'acting like a fag', or someone is 'gay', I get that you are not directly tying it with the notion of homosexuals. But what happens to the people who went through personal trauma when they hear it? Now, they must stay quiet or be forced to re-live it when they try to explain why something is not funny. So they have to laugh, or go through the motions of pain again. Turning the blind eye to racism, does not make it 'lose' power. It does not magically erase the knowledge that the word was used when hanging a man on a neighborhood tree when he walked on the wrong side of the street, or an entirely black majority town of Rosewood, Florida literally erased over night because some woman was beat up by her husband and did not want to stain her family name so she blamed a resident of that town and pretty much everyone from the town was mutilated, tortured, and murdered (not to mention people would not even pick up any dark skinned travelers fleeing because they were so scared for their own well being), it also does not ignore the fact that the US Government deliberately infected blacks in Alabama with brain damaging Syphilis and claimed it was a vaccine over the course of 40 years quite literally just to see what happened, because "No one cares about those N's". (and is probably where that business came from about how vaccinations cause autism but that's a different topic) There are people alive today who's lives were directly ruined because of these events.

So when some moron who thinks the internet cushions him around accountability when he decides to use the N word, you suggest ignoring him and it will all just 'go away'? That was done already, and negative results happened. People started calling it out, and people who escaped Rosewood or unwitting participants in the Tuskegee experiment now get free college scholarships and restitution from the government. That's why you judge harshly and call it out. It's not that you are hearing more of it, or that people are becoming softer, it's just that it always was a massive problem but people are learning that speaking up is more prone to keep you alive and well instead of shutting up. Sure, there are some out there who like drama, as you suggested, but I would prefer to listen to dramatic people than to hear about a town where every was brutally murdered and how many people don't actually know about it.

But I do think we should stop making stupid people famous and let the trash settle on the trash. I don't think much of pewdiepie but I know that because it was blown in to a big deal, he is going to get exactly what he deserves of equal proportion. His cute ten seconds of fame are probably going to mean he never gets the chance to lock down a job he might actually want in the future, because all the places where video gaming skills are relevant require six figure salaries to live well and no company willing to invest that much money in to their employees will not see his potential sincerity as anything other than a liability. He will never be able to support a family, no one is going to want the alienation of a relationship with him, his family will be ashamed and harassed because of him, and he is probably accumulating a nightmare whirlwind of email and phone threats from bored losers just like him.

I think it was a good thing that people made a huge stir of it, drama and all.
His loving fans and supporters can see his washed up mtv true life drama apology episode in fifteen years, and I'm pretty content with knowing one day he could wind up being that miserable 80 year old gas station attendant pumping my gas on Thanksgiving because he has absolutely no where to go and can't afford to retire.

I am neither nice or friendly in real life, but I don't stand for ism's out there, whatever they may be, and I think people should be judged very harshly.

Also, EDIT:
The game he said not very nice stuff on is suffering and the developer is likely to go out of business because they were review bombed so the game may not sell. Since money is involved, there will probably be an attempt to sue him if they can for whatever possible. Would be the next logical occurrence. Not to say they will be successful, but when someone loses money things tend to happen.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 11:01:00 PM by Exaelitus »

Offline Skynet

Re: PewDiePie and the bad word dramaz
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2017, 11:29:22 AM »
I both agree and disagree on this point.  I'm not really a fan of Pewdiepie, and some of his shenanigans have definitely toed the line of what is good taste.  That being said, what does that say about the rest of us when we (in general) get so bent out of shape over this sort of thing?  Has he said tasteless things in the past?  Oh, definitely, and I don't defend them in the slightest.  But I do think that, given the social climate that has been steadily building over the last decade or so, these sorts of things are given way more attention than they actually deserve.  The general idea is that we are supposed to be moving beyond all this nonsense, yet if we just keep falling back whenever someone says something in poor taste, we'll never get anywhere.  There has to come a time when we, as a society, just stop giving stuff like this the sort of attention it gets, and instead learn to just shrug our shoulders and realize this sort of stuff for what it is; harmless.

Yes, Pewdiepie courts controversy, especially lately, and I do think that there is a certain sense of untouchability (not a word, I know) in his actions.  But honestly, the main reason people like him even do this sort of thing is because the rest of society is going to loose their collective minds over it.  If most people just shrugged their shoulders and paid it little mind, then a lot of this would loose it's power.  Hell, Morgan Freeman himself basically said that the best way to solve this problem in our society is to stop talking about it, to stop giving it the sort of attention that it's getting.  And I personally think he's right.

Simply put, I think people are addicted to drama, and like any addiction, it's not healthy.

Morgan Freeman long disavowed those words he said.

To the bold: ignoring the problem doesn't mean it will go away. On the contrary, the prejudice which is hardest to root out are the ones which can't be detected by the general public. Dog-whistle politics is like this in Washington, where folks running for office use code-words to appeal to racist voters:

Quote from: Lee Atwater on the Southern Strategy to gain the segregationist vote
You start out in 1954 by saying, “Ni**er, ni**er, ni**er.” By 1968 you can’t say “ni**er”—that hurts you, backfires. So you say stuff like, uh, forced busing, states’ rights, and all that stuff, and you’re getting so abstract. Now, you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is, blacks get hurt worse than whites.… “We want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing, uh, and a hell of a lot more abstract than “Ni**er, ni**er.”

But in recent times, racial slurs (not just the n-word) have been picked up by ironic "I'm just joking/trolling" types as a way to mask their views behind plausible deniability, in part on the account of its taboo nature and the relative safety of the Internet allowing you to say such things on a public forum without getting punched or driven out of the room. Regardless of PewDiePie's intentions, it's part of a broader pattern of behavior of a very real concern of such propaganda being 'legitimized' via a broader cultural acceptance.

Most people don't know that former Trump aide Steve Bannon's a big fan of white supremacist literature, but that doesn't mean it has a negligible worldview on the administration's policies. But it's just a book, he's not really going out and advocating slaughtering dark-skinned immigrants, right?

One might say what this has to do with PewDiePie now, but that's my point. "It's just a word, it's just a book, it's just X," where the burden is on the people reacting to racism and not racist behavior. Like it or not, PewDiePie's tasteless jokes in the past have made him popular among the /pol/style "jokey racist" factions, and his behavior and anti-SJW style of videos have made him a piece of propaganda in the culture wars.

So it's not so much folks are angry at him using a slur in anger, more of the broader cultural implications it will have down the road and has had in the past.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 11:49:50 AM by Skynet »

Offline Regina Minx

Re: PewDiePie and the bad word dramaz
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2017, 07:43:22 PM »
My take:

PewDiePie did something racist. I'm not surprised.

What I am surprised about is that there are people defending him, because apparently PewDiePie should be allowed to do the sort of thing that would get you, me, or anyone else fired if we worked for McDonald's. I guarantee you that if you burned your hand in the deep frier and called the deep frier the N-word, you would be out of there before the fries came out. PewDiePie doesn't work for McDonald's; he's self-employed, which means that it's a lot like the CEO of McDonald's calling someone the N-word. Would anyone here be surprised if that lead to a...shall we say decline in McDonald's business and brand value afterward?

The argument goes that it was said in the heat of the moment. Which makes it OK, I guess? Here's my objection to that, even if it was true. You do not say something in the heat of the moment that you don't already have in your vocabulary. There are hundreds of thousands of words besides that one, and he chose to do that one in a fit of anger. I've said things when I've been angry before. I've had a girlfriend cheat on me, I had a cinderblock fall on my toe. Did I cuss? You're goddamned right I did. DId I say words that were meant to be insulting and cutting? Yep.

Did I use the N-word? Nope. Because the N-word is not part of my working vocabulary.

PewDiePie chose to use that word instead of the hundreds of thousands of others he had to choose from. He could have called the guy in the video game a cockfucker or a shit ass guzzler, but he didn't. He said the N-word at his job where the vast majority of his audience is children and teenagers.

The moral of the story is: don't say the N-word at work. And I am amazed that this is a lesson that needs to be learned.

Offline Marri

Re: PewDiePie and the bad word dramaz
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2017, 08:07:49 AM »
Deciding some words are okay to say and some aren't just gives them way more power than they deserve, y'know? The first time I said fuck, or cunt, I felt horrible. But as you say and hear something progressively, it begins to lose a lot of its power. You see this even today, where words which were once viewed as pejoratives are used by people -- and I'm not just talking, "the n-- word". I don't think you're a racist for rattling off one derogatory term; I think assuming such really waters down the meaning of the word racist and how vile and ugly true racism can be. He said something he shouldn't have, but was anyone's feelings really hurt by some random idiot on Youtube blurting out the "n" word when he got mad in a game? You're bound to hear some naughty words on the Internet, so what? It's not like someone using a racial slur that isn't directed at anyone but a nameless enemy in a game (who couldn't hear him) isn't going to set social progress back anything. Outrage for the sake of outrage, over a single word, no less, is silly.

Bringing up examples of social injustice, as though its supposed to prove how problematic a word can be, makes zero sense. Those suffering based on their gender or their race aren't going to suddenly suffer more because a Youtube entertainer said a naughty word. It also doesn't diminish the fact that aforementioned entertainer, to be quite specific, is far from the abhorrent human being the online virtue signalers love to make him out as. Have we forgotten how he raised over 1 million dollars for RED already? Or does being a generally decent human being go out the window with one insensitive gesture?
« Last Edit: September 16, 2017, 08:09:39 AM by Marri »

Offline Regina Minx

Re: PewDiePie and the bad word dramaz
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2017, 08:22:33 AM »
Deciding some words are okay to say and some aren't just gives them way more power than they deserve, y'know?....

We do decide that some words are OK to say and that some aren't. Even someone who would describe themselves as a free-speech absolutist is probably going to say that libelous or slanderous speech is OK, or that you can't threaten or incite. So even the people that worship this like it was a religious tenet are going to say "Well, sometimes it's not OK to say certain things and if you do you get hit with a criminal or civil liability stick."

He said something he shouldn't have, but was anyone's feelings really hurt by some random idiot on Youtube blurting out the "n" word when he got mad in a game? You're bound to hear some naughty words on the Internet, so what? It's not like someone using a racial slur that isn't directed at anyone but a nameless enemy in a game (who couldn't hear him) isn't going to set social progress back anything. Outrage for the sake of outrage, over a single word, no less, is silly.

Again, I want to re-iterate that PewDiePie's job is to make videos for the Internet. Would you take this same line of defense if he worked at McDonald's, got mad at the deep frier, called it the N-word, and was fired for that? Would you be saying that McDonald's was being silly and over-reacting for firing him because he called an inanimate piece of machinery a racial slur? That you hear some naughty words in the kitchen of McDonald's, so what? It's not like one fry-cook using racial slurs at McDonald's is going to set back social progress.

Offline Marri

Re: PewDiePie and the bad word dramaz
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2017, 09:23:54 AM »
Threats of violence, which are in fact criminal, and racial slurs are not the same thing. I noted words -- not phrases. You can string together any number of perfectly acceptable words to form a statement that can get you in trouble. If Pewdiepie had said, for example, to "lynch all [black people]," then yes, I'd be right along with you in condemning him. It's a call to action that is downright vile; but that's not what he did. What he did was idiotic and insensitive, but not much more than that.

You can't really equate his position as a performer with a retail job, either -- though to provide an answer, yes, I would one hundred percent consider McDonalds silly. We know the definition of that particular racial slur, and it in no way relates to the hypothetical situation in which it is being used. It is silly, nay, comical, for exactly how little sense it makes. That said, being essentially self-employed and functioning off partnerships and ad revenue is a good deal different than being a team member within a franchise. Certain expectations are made, y'know, concerning ethic and how one carries themselves, that are typically spelled out clearly for the potential employee; so yes, you might get in trouble for doing things that are acceptable otherwise because you're breaking an agreement with your employer. Like, in the video where PewdiePie uses a racial slur, he corrects himself by saying something like, "Fucking asshole," and nobody bats an eye. That wouldn't really fly in a retail environment (though again, since we hold racial slurs on some undeserved pedestal of naughtiness, your punishment might be different). Look to any incident where an entertainer has used the "n" word and you'll see a trend typical as to what we're seeing now. Their popularity plummeted as people and sponsorships turned away. You can choose not to watch Pewdiepie because what he said offended you and you're free to feel that he was racially insensitive -- but holding the rest of the world to that standard just waters down what true racism is -- and that's not the kind of word you want losing its punch.

We're at the point where people are getting offended by the skin tone of emojiis. Can you really blame people for rolling their eyes at the "Pewdiepie is a racist," bandwagon? Reporting in regards to PewdiePie already carries a negative connotation with the Youtube community considering how it led to the awful restructuring of its ad system.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2017, 09:28:03 AM by Marri »

Offline Aiden

Re: PewDiePie and the bad word dramaz
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2017, 09:41:17 AM »
Attention whore in need of attention, and got it. If you don't support him, then don't click his videos, every view is more ad revenue in his pocket.

Offline Regina Minx

Re: PewDiePie and the bad word dramaz
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2017, 09:42:01 AM »
Threats of violence, which are in fact criminal, and racial slurs are not the same thing. I noted words -- not phrases. You can string together any number of perfectly acceptable words to form a statement that can get you in trouble. If Pewdiepie had said, for example, to "lynch all [black people]," then yes, I'd be right along with you in condemning him. It's a call to action that is downright vile; but that's not what he did. What he did was idiotic and insensitive, but not much more than that.

Shouting "FIRE" in a crowded movie theater is both the perennial example of the limits of free speech and something free speech advocates almost universally agree is and should be criminalized. I find your distinction between certain phrases being unacceptable, but individual words being somehow sacrosanct a bizarrely arbitrary distinction. And even drawing that distinction doesn't work, due to the theater example above.

You can't really equate his position as a performer with a retail job, either

Bullshit you can't. Remember 10 years ago when Michael Richards, the actor who played Kramer in Seinfeld, went on a racist rant against black hecklers at a comedy club? Yeah, his career got fucked for that one. This is directly analogous to a person being fired from their job for using racial slurs on the job, and directly analogous to PewDiePie too.

-- though to provide an answer, yes, I would one hundred percent consider McDonalds silly.

And that's the difference between you and me. McDonald's has a vested interest in firing such an employee for two reasons. One, failure to do so could constitute evidence that they had acted in such a way as to foster an environment in which racial discrimination was permitted or practiced. Failing to fire that employee could expose them to liability. But even the liability argument is undercut by the second reason they McDonald's would fire him. McDonald's is a brand, and the public perception of that brand is directly tied to their marketability and profit margins. No company, even one where every single person in a position of corporate management is a closet racist wants to endure the damage to brand image that NOT firing such an employee would cultivate.

Shielding themselves from liability and protecting the value of the brand are non-silly reasons to fire an employee that directed the N-word at a deep frier. McDonald's exists to make money. Failing to fire such an employee would run directly contrary to that corporate goal. That's kind of the exact opposite of 'silly.'

Like, in the video where PewdiePie uses a racial slur, he corrects himself by saying something like, "Fucking asshole," and nobody bats an eye.

Obviously, people are batting eyes, given that game developers are proceeding with DCRM claims against him, and the fact that we're even talking about this.

Look to any incident where an entertainer has used the "n" word and you'll see a trend typical as to what we're seeing now. Their popularity plummeted as people and sponsorships turned away. You can choose not to watch Pewdiepie because what he said offended you and you're free to feel that he was racially insensitive -- but holding the rest of the world to that standard just waters down what true racism is -- and that's not the kind of word you want losing its punch.

Except that ISN'T the trend we're seeing now. Michael Richards and Mel Gibson effectively didn't work for a decade or more after their racist tirades. I'm not seeing any sign that PewDiePie is losing vast numbers of subscribers over this incident. Either because he's being held to a different standard than Mel Gibson and Michael Richards, or because the environment has changed since those men were excoriated for their words.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2017, 10:26:48 AM by Regina Minx »

Offline Deamonbane

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Re: PewDiePie and the bad word dramaz
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2017, 10:26:05 AM »
Attention whore in need of attention, and got it. If you don't support him, then don't click his videos, every view is more ad revenue in his pocket.
This.

Offline Regina Minx

Re: PewDiePie and the bad word dramaz
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2017, 10:32:26 AM »
Attention whore in need of attention, and got it. If you don't support him, then don't click his videos, every view is more ad revenue in his pocket.

You're kind of assuming that the only meaningful interaction I could have ABOUT PewDiePie is to not watch his videos. That is obviously not the case, since he's not getting paid by E for every time we mention him on this site. A discussion about appropriate conduct at business, whether or not 'it was a silly thing to say in a fit of anger' is or should be any kind of defense or excuse, or even if we can infer racist intent by what he said is a perfectly valid thing to have.

Although I had watched individual PewDiePie videos in the past, I am not a regular watcher and will not become so now. So I'm already taking your (rather dismissive, if I may say so) advice, yet the conversation is clearly not about whether or not we should click his videos. In fact, I think you might have been the one to bring it up.

Offline Deamonbane

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Re: PewDiePie and the bad word dramaz
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2017, 10:42:35 AM »
Under that context we should be adding every comedian who has ever been desperate enough to use shock tactics to get attention, which is what this is, to this discussion.

Offline Regina Minx

Re: PewDiePie and the bad word dramaz
« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2017, 10:47:07 AM »
Under that context we should be adding every comedian who has ever been desperate enough to use shock tactics to get attention, which is what this is, to this discussion.

That's one way of looking at it. Then again, you could also argue that he let slip something he uses as part of his workaday vocabulary in a 'hot mic' incident. See my post above about using invectives in a fit of anger or pain. Which has the higher prior probability of being correct? And given the evidence (the quick retraction, the apology video) which has the higher consequent probability of being correct?

I'm going to argue that it's at least 2-1 more likely that this wasn't a planned shock tactic event, but a slip of the tongue reflecting a word he has quick to hand, and not some 3-dimensional chess 'LOOK AT ME' attention-getting move.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2017, 10:48:22 AM by Regina Minx »

Offline Deamonbane

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Re: PewDiePie and the bad word dramaz
« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2017, 10:57:54 AM »
I was referencing his previous calls for attention which had people gasping at his supposed Nazism, not his casual use of a word that is used in most toxic gaming communities alongside the wild antics of gamers with other gamers' mothers. In short, it's much ado about yet another toxic gamer.

Offline WindFish

Re: PewDiePie and the bad word dramaz
« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2017, 11:02:29 AM »
If this had been an one time thing, I might have been inclined to believe his apology. The fact is that he's been caught saying and doing racist shit long before this incident. There's only so many times the "it's just a joke" defense can be used before people distance themselves from him and call him out on the racism. It's no wonder he's become a poster boy for the alt-right and Nazi sympathizers.

During my twenty-six years as a gamer, I have not once uttered a racial, sexist, or homophobic slur in a moment of frustration. If that kind of language is the first thing you say when you're frustrated, then it does hint at some racist mindset on his part. I've dropped plenty of f-bombs, but I never use slurs.

Making this worse is that many children watch him and will think his behavior is acceptable to emulate, and that it'll be harder for more talented Let's Players to do their jobs due to threats of DMCA takedowns.

Offline Regina Minx

Re: PewDiePie and the bad word dramaz
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2017, 11:04:01 AM »
I was referencing his previous calls for attention which had people gasping at his supposed Nazism, not his casual use of a word that is used in most toxic gaming communities alongside the wild antics of gamers with other gamers' mothers. In short, it's much ado about yet another toxic gamer.

Whether or not I watch a YouTube content creator, it's not an invalid use of time to talk about a particular toxic gamer, toxic gamers in general, and the larger trend of similar hot mic incidents that picked up racial slurs coming from the mouths of people who have a brand and a name to defend.

Offline Oniya

Re: PewDiePie and the bad word dramaz
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2017, 11:34:34 AM »
Threats of violence, which are in fact criminal, and racial slurs are not the same thing. I noted words -- not phrases. You can string together any number of perfectly acceptable words to form a statement that can get you in trouble. If Pewdiepie had said, for example, to "lynch all [black people]," then yes, I'd be right along with you in condemning him. It's a call to action that is downright vile; but that's not what he did. What he did was idiotic and insensitive, but not much more than that.

You mean, like this incident?  That was earlier this very year.

Also - I'm a gamer.  I understand cussing in the heat of the moment.  But the words you cuss with in-game really tend to be the words you cuss with in real life - or at least think about cussing with in real life.  There's a reason they call it the 'heat of the moment' defense:  You aren't thinking.  You are using what comes as an instinctive reaction.

Think about it - his instinctive reaction is to call a person a racial slur when they upset him.  Back when I was growing up, that was a mark of someone who was 'not a nice person.'

« Last Edit: September 16, 2017, 11:37:42 AM by Oniya »

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Re: PewDiePie and the bad word dramaz
« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2017, 11:38:57 AM »
Whether or not I watch a YouTube content creator, it's not an invalid use of time to talk about a particular toxic gamer, toxic gamers in general, and the larger trend of similar hot mic incidents that picked up racial slurs coming from the mouths of people who have a brand and a name to defend.
That's fair.

Offline Vergil Tanner

Re: PewDiePie and the bad word dramaz
« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2017, 09:21:42 PM »
You mean, like this incident?  That was earlier this very year.

You mean a joke? You can think it's distasteful, yes, but the fact remains that he wasn't serious. It was a joke. Holocaust and Nazi jokes aren't funny because the Nazi's were right, it's funny because it's not funny. The joke isn't that the Holocaust was a good thing, the joke is that it was a bad thing and the person telling the joke is a bad person. The joke is about the person telling the joke. But again, you can find it distasteful, that's fine, but shocking, distasteful and dark jokes are all part and parcel of being an entertainer...and that's what Felix is. He's an entertainer. Are we going to start dragging every Comedian who has ever made a distasteful joke over the coals now? Because doing it to Pewdiepie and not doing it to comedians who make those jokes is massively hypocritical.

And honestly, in your post where you're quoting somebody, you're equating that to an outright threat of violence, which I don't think is true or fair. He's making a joke, and the video makes that absolutely clear. He is in no way saying "Yeah, guys, you heard them...go do it!" THAT is a threat of violence. Or if he'd said "Too fucking right, they all deserve it," then you'd have a case. But he didn't. So you suggesting that his joke was actually a threat of violence? That's misleading and drawing a very tenuous false equivalence.

And once you say that there are subjects that people should never make jokes about, you're setting apart those things in a special protected class, which is missing the point of humour. Either everything is ok to joke about, or nothing is. I mean, I might have a different perspective on it given the British style of humour, but I don't see the big deal over him making racist jokes. Are you saying that he's racist BECAUSE he made a racist joke? By that same logic, anybody who makes a dead baby joke is infanticidal, anybody who makes rape jokes is a rapist, and anybody who makes Knock Knock jokes is a serial knock and runner.

In any case, regardless of what he did, that doesn't justify the Wall Street Journals slanderous Hit-Piece on him that took pretty much everything he said out of context and tried to paint it like he genuinely believed that shit. And it isn't the first time that the "Mainstream Media" has tried to attack big youtubers, either. And actually, that's what makes me believe his apology (ironically enough). See, when the WSJ posted that lawsuit-worthy article, Pewdiepie came out swinging in his own defence, mocking the WSJ and vehemently denying their accusations that he's secretly a Nazi. He stood up for himself, and refused to apologise for his off colour jokes...which I agree with, because honestly we need off colour jokes to push the boundaries of what's acceptable. Now, Nazi jokes are a little lazy at this point in time, but that doesn't mean he should be accused of BEING a Nazi for making them. Hell, if he WAS a Nazi, I don't think he WOULD be making Nazi Jokes because they wouldn't be jokes to him. But I digress; he stood up for himself when the WSJ wrote that article...and yet, the day after he made that comment, he came out with a contrite video apologising without reservation. I've known about PDP for a while, and whilst I grew out of his videos six or seven years ago, my experience of him is that if he makes a mistake and apologises, he does genuinely mean it, and his actions reflect that. Yeah, he said a racial slur in the heat of the moment...and then he apologised immediately afterwards AND released a full apology video. So...what's the big deal? Amusingly, I've seen a number of black youtubers hearing about it going "...so?" But that's besides the point, since that creeps into argument ad populam, so eh.


Also - I'm a gamer.  I understand cussing in the heat of the moment.  But the words you cuss with in-game really tend to be the words you cuss with in real life - or at least think about cussing with in real life.  There's a reason they call it the 'heat of the moment' defense:  You aren't thinking.  You are using what comes as an instinctive reaction.

Think about it - his instinctive reaction is to call a person a racial slur when they upset him.  Back when I was growing up, that was a mark of someone who was 'not a nice person.'

I disagree entirely. Sorry, Oniya, but that isn't really true. I can't give statistics due to the personal nature of it, but I can give you an anecdote from my own experience; I was playing a game a couple of weeks ago, and I hit a wall of difficulty that I just couldn't get through. I rammed my head against this level three, four, five times, and I always died at the same spot, right? On my sixth death, I got frustrated and said "Oh, you fucking cunt." Before that moment, the last time I'd said the word "Cunt" was about six months previously. I was frustrated, and I blurted out the worst word I could think of to vent. And that's exactly what PDP said that he did. Now as I understand it, he does Livestreams a LOT, and to the best of my knowledge he's never said "Nigga" on-stream before this. If he'd said it three or four or five times beforehand, and this was just another time he said it and apologised? I'd be with you. But for a first time offence that he apologised for immediately afterwards? I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. This time.

I mean, it's a word that he apologised for straight away. I just don't see why it's such a big deal, personally.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2017, 09:23:36 PM by Vergil Tanner »

Offline Vergil Tanner

Re: PewDiePie and the bad word dramaz
« Reply #24 on: September 16, 2017, 09:42:16 PM »
Also: Additional on the DMCA:

The company is abusing it, plain and simple. The DMCA isn't there for companies to use when somebody using their game says something that they don't like. Personally speaking, I think that Let's Plays with commentary over the top - like Pewdiepie does - should be considered Fair Use, and a company using a DMCA because the person they were previously ok with playing the game said a naughty word that they didn't like sets a very dangerous precedent for future abuse.