Trump

[Kitteredge]

It's not a particularly new idea -- used to be called "horse and the sparrows": If you give the horse enough oats, eventually enough will get spurted onto the ground for the sparrows.

It's literally horseshit. But it became sacrosanct during the Reagan era and has screwed us ever since.

[Kitteredge]

Anyway, to the point, the GOP managed to use these ideas to slough massive parts of the coronavirus aid package -- to the tune of billions -- into the hands of people that absolutely do not need it.

[TheVillain]

[Beguile's Mistress]

"It's hard to escape the interpretation that they're frightened that President Trump will tweet them into political oblivion if they don't do exactly what he says," Gore said during an interview on CNN's State of the Union.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/al-gore-urges-republicans-to-overcome-fear-that-trump-will-tweet-them-into-political-oblivion/ar-BB1bTsmr?ocid=msedgntp

[Callie Del Noire]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/al-gore-urges-republicans-to-overcome-fear-that-trump-will-tweet-them-into-political-oblivion/ar-BB1bTsmr?ocid=msedgntp

Going to be hard when your social media doesn’t have presidential protection anymore.  Good money would be has banned from Twitter with a month

[Haibane]

Going to be hard when your social media doesn’t have presidential protection anymore.  Good money would be has banned from Twitter with a month

I am expecting that, yes. On the subject of social media I really hope 2020 has been a loud wake up for the Likes of YT, FB and Twitter, etc and they'll pour more money and effort into dealing with dangerous misinformation and bigotry of various kinds.

[Beguile's Mistress]

I am expecting that, yes. On the subject of social media I really hope 2020 has been a loud wake up for the Likes of YT, FB and Twitter, etc and they'll pour more money and effort into dealing with dangerous misinformation and bigotry of various kinds.

Those are two of 45's favorite topics.  How would he exist without them? 

[TheGlyphstone]

I am expecting that, yes. On the subject of social media I really hope 2020 has been a loud wake up for the Likes of YT, FB and Twitter, etc and they'll pour more money and effort into dealing with dangerous misinformation and bigotry of various kinds.

It's unlikely that they will unless forced to by regulatory agencies, because while it would be socially responsible, it's harmful to their financial interest. Youtube and Facebook in particular generate massive amounts of revenue through ads, which depend on views to pay out. Posts/videos that are controversial or provocative draw more views and attention, which means more money, whether or not they are factual.

[Missy]

I don't know what you're talking about, but there's definitely no irony in the news these days

[Haibane]

These organisations need to be declared illegal.

[Haibane]

The End is Nigh!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-55308526

[TheHangedOne]

The End is Nigh!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-55308526

Prepare for violence. Not that I approve of it, but I know my country and its people, and there will be more violence.

[Andol]

I am expecting that, yes. On the subject of social media I really hope 2020 has been a loud wake up for the Likes of YT, FB and Twitter, etc and they'll pour more money and effort into dealing with dangerous misinformation and bigotry of various kinds.

Dealing with bigotry yes... 'dangerous misinformation'... that is a big no. I say this because the idea of the social media and other big tech mega-corps becoming the arbiters of what is misinformation and what is not sounds like a dangerous direction to go. The last people I want to have dictating that kind of stuff is a small group of CEO's in Silicon Valley.  

[Deamonbane]

That is what the US's version of capitalism encourages, though, right? The government has absolutely no say on what is shared and spoken on a social media megaphone, but the individual companies have the right to regulate what is said and heard on their platform.

[Andol]

You're going too far with this lazy "both sides" rhetoric. It's understandable not to be a fan of political parties or politicians. There's a difference between saying politicians are all the same and Democrats will incite Civil War to install their dictator too. One is jaded. The other is a wild accusation that would not even be in the realm of consideration by reasonable people if Republicans were not actively attempting it.

I would like to know how I am going to far with it?... It sounds more like people are just looking at the GOP under the Trump Administration and going with an 'one side is always bad and the other always good mentality.

If you need me to clear up what I meant, then I will put it this way. The state is bad, especially the politicians who run it and don't give a damn about the people who elected them until they need those votes again. I am sorry I am not the best at stating my opinions, I get nervous enough doing so.

That is what the US's version of capitalism encourages, though, right? The government has absolutely no say on what is shared and spoken on a social media megaphone, but the individual companies have the right to regulate what is said and heard on their platform.

Yeah, but a large number of them seem to hold the same political leaning. Wither or not that is just an outward business face and something done during fair weather moments to help out a party that they can use to their advantage on the bottom line, I am not sure. Though I guess that is why we have to be thankful for alternate tech social media these days.

[TheHangedOne]

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2020/12/13/michigan-house-senate-close-offices-monday-due-safety-concerns/6533488002/

"Michigan House, Senate close offices due to threats ahead of electors' meeting"

Anybody that does show up to try and intimidate them should get shot in the face with tear gas canisters, much like what happened to peaceful, unarmed protesters.

[Deamonbane]

Yeah, but a large number of them seem to hold the same political leaning. Wither or not that is just an outward business face and something done during fair weather moments to help out a party that they can use to their advantage on the bottom line, I am not sure. Though I guess that is why we have to be thankful for alternate tech social media these days.

Yes, the same political leaning: Money, and the making of it. There is literally no other point to any shenanigans put forth by them. If you want a social media platform that actually is overtly political, look no further than Parler.

[Skynet]

I would like to know how I am going to far with it?... It sounds more like people are just looking at the GOP under the Trump Administration and going with an 'one side is always bad and the other always good mentality.

If there's one thing liberals and leftists are good at, it's infighting. One only needs to see the internal battle between progressive and centrist Dems to see that the anti-GOP side can't really agree on much.

I think a better analogy than "both sides" would be the Weimar Republic vs Nazi Germany. One was an inefficient failed state which failed to attend to the basic needs of the people and shirked away from more long-term solutions due to fears of "radicalism." The other actively embraced death and destruction, even towards their own, as long as it hurted the people they want to hurt.

If you need me to clear up what I meant, then I will put it this way. The state is bad, especially the politicians who run it and don't give a damn about the people who elected them until they need those votes again. I am sorry I am not the best at stating my opinions, I get nervous enough doing so.


Yeah, but a large number of them seem to hold the same political leaning. Wither or not that is just an outward business face and something done during fair weather moments to help out a party that they can use to their advantage on the bottom line, I am not sure. Though I guess that is why we have to be thankful for alternate tech social media these days.

This is inevitable with most big corporations; a lot of them are single-issue voters who are going to vote for whoever promises the rich lower taxes, and as that tends to be the Republicans whatever other political beliefs they have (pro-LGBT, anti-War on Terror, etc) only really amounts to saying one thing and doing the opposite. The Koch Brothers are a stellar example: they're self-defined small-government Libertarians yet not only voted for Mr. PATRIOT Act twice, they funded his Presidential campaigns with tons of cash. Or Ike Permutter of Marvel Comics, who in spite of said comics having some big pro-social justice slants donated a million dollars to the Trump campaign.

[Dhi]

I would like to know how I am going to far with it?... It sounds more like people are just looking at the GOP under the Trump Administration and going with an 'one side is always bad and the other always good mentality.

If you need me to clear up what I meant, then I will put it this way. The state is bad, especially the politicians who run it and don't give a damn about the people who elected them until they need those votes again. I am sorry I am not the best at stating my opinions, I get nervous enough doing so.

"One side is always bad and the other always good" is also lazy, reductionist, flippant. I would take similar issue to anyone seeing Republicans damage faith in our democracy and encourage Civil War and saying "Typical, Republicans always do this." Neither is accurate. Both are going too far. But I find saying that Democrats would do the same given the chance especially egregious, because given hundreds of opportunities Democrats have never done anything close to this.

Both sides are not the same. It's a common strategy for the Republican party to project its own sins and exaggerate the failings of the Democratic party in order to blur the line of what is acceptable, and then willfully step over that line. The reason they do this is so that observers who don't pay especially keen attention to politics, including much of the Republican base, will be left feeling that either party is equally guilty.

Networks like Fox News are bloodthirsty to beat on the dead horse of whataboutism until there's nothing left but dust, and love to wax philosophical about what could happen, what might happen, rather than what is factually happening. Only one party is guilty of attempting a coup against a lawfully elected president. Just one.

[Andol]

"One side is always bad and the other always good" is also lazy, reductionist, flippant. I would take similar issue to anyone seeing Republicans damage faith in our democracy and encourage Civil War and saying "Typical, Republicans always do this." Neither is accurate. Both are going too far. But I find saying that Democrats would do the same given the chance especially egregious, because given hundreds of opportunities Democrats have never done anything close to this.

Both sides are not the same. It's a common strategy for the Republican party to project its own sins and exaggerate the failings of the Democratic party in order to blur the line of what is acceptable, and then willfully step over that line. The reason they do this is so that observers who don't pay especially keen attention to politics, including much of the Republican base, will be left feeling that either party is equally guilty.

Networks like Fox News are bloodthirsty to beat on the dead horse of whataboutism until there's nothing left but dust, and love to wax philosophical about what could happen, what might happen, rather than what is factually happening. Only one party is guilty of attempting a coup against a lawfully elected president. Just one.

I think that where you were mistaken about what I said, was I never made any claims about Democrats doing that specific thing. Your twisting my words when it comes to that point. Also I don't find that to be lazy in this case, because that is just the impression I have always gotten so in this case I was only stating what I seen because I had no other way to describe it.

Oh and the Democrats don't do the same thing when it comes to talking about the failings of the Republican party? If they where not playing with the same play book of manipulation then they would be at a disadvantage so I don't see were you are going with that.

Also I find the idea of calling what is going on 'a coup' to be the perfect example of something that is being blown out of the water. It sounds more like the type of over exaggeration that you were talking about. I personally find the fact that at least parts of the election process that need to be fixed are being brought to like, especially in my state were I live to be refreshing.

Oh and just to point this out... Biden isn't exactly considered lawfully elected until the Electoral College process is finished(even if it is kinda obvious he is going to win). The media calling him 'President-elect'... yeah... there is no such title.   

[Regina Minx]

Oh and the Democrats don't do the same thing when it comes to talking about the failings of the Republican party? If they where not playing with the same play book of manipulation then they would be at a disadvantage so I don't see were you are going with that.

I said earlier:

2) Please point out the last time that 17 Democratic Attornies General and more than 100 elected Democratic legislators signed off on a lawsuit to the Supreme Court which advocated overturning a free and fair election because their preferred candidate lost.

You did not reply at the time.

[Skynet]

Oh and just to point this out... Biden isn't exactly considered lawfully elected until the Electoral College process is finished(even if it is kinda obvious he is going to win). The media calling him 'President-elect'... yeah... there is no such title.   

The phrase exists in the 20th Amendment.

20th Amendment
Section 1
The terms of the President and the Vice President shall end at noon on the 20th day of January, and the terms of Senators and Representatives at noon on the 3d day of January, of the years in which such terms would have ended if this article had not been ratified; and the terms of their successors shall then begin.

Section 2
The Congress shall assemble at least once in every year, and such meeting shall begin at noon on the 3d day of January, unless they shall by law appoint a different day.

Section 3
If, at the time fixed for the beginning of the term of the President, the President elect shall have died, the Vice President elect shall become President. If a President shall not have been chosen before the time fixed for the beginning of his term, or if the President elect shall have failed to qualify, then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified; and the Congress may by law provide for the case wherein neither a President elect nor a Vice President shall have qualified, declaring who shall then act as President, or the manner in which one who is to act shall be selected, and such person shall act accordingly until a President or Vice President shall have qualified.

[Dhi]

Andol, if you're feeling heightened anxiety about our discussion so far, I think it's best to retire this line of argument, because I've been as polite as I care to be regarding false balance.

[Haibane]

Dealing with bigotry yes... 'dangerous misinformation'... that is a big no. I say this because the idea of the social media and other big tech mega-corps becoming the arbiters of what is misinformation and what is not sounds like a dangerous direction to go. The last people I want to have dictating that kind of stuff is a small group of CEO's in Silicon Valley.

Tough. They are already doing it. They are private companies and free speech does not apply on their platforms.

They are already doing their best to suppress electoral fraud stories and anti-vaccine crap and I think both are very worthy targets.

[Andol]

The phrase exists in the 20th Amendment.

I said earlier:

You did not reply at the time.

To be quiet honest that is posing a overly specific value that you want me to show. Can I show an exact time that they did that exact thing... no... but can I find other cases of Democratic party misconduct on a large scale... yeah. I will have to do a little digging into political history to come back with an answer for you. Though the only thing I can think of off the top of my head is how much they seemed to obsessed with the Russia thing, and now show their true colors by turning around and calling the current election the most secure we have had... when all that crap kept going on in my home state (Wither it changed things or not... electoral mistake that need to be corrected for future elections still happened.)

The phrase exists in the 20th Amendment.

Well that is a thing... strange that the media waited till this election to plaster that all over the news. Plus it could be argued that what is stated in Section 3 is not meant to be used as a 'title' like it has in the media, but is simply how it is being worded as a reference to who was elected based on the results of the Electoral College.

Andol, if you're feeling heightened anxiety about our discussion so far, I think it's best to retire this line of argument, because I've been as polite as I care to be regarding false balance.

Eh that is probably a good idea... I do get worried that people will dislike me because my position seems to be different than most. I hope I didn't bother anyone. Though I have never really heard of the concept of false balance... and if that is something I was doing I wasn't supposed to. I didn't mean to :S Just doing my best at trying to get my thoughts out there

Tough. They are already doing it. They are private companies and free speech does not apply on their platforms.

They are already doing their best to suppress electoral fraud stories and anti-vaccine crap and I think both are very worthy targets.

Well you got me there, they are private companies and free speech does not apply on their platforms. Sure they are suppressing 'worthy targets' at the moment, but what happens when they just decide to suppress more and more ideas that they don't like. They do have a heavy left-leaning basis in what they suppress, which is sad considering what good they could do if they didn't do that kind of crap, but hey... that is the purpose of alt tech. You suppress peoples free speech and opinions and they will take them else were.