Topic: The Force Shall Free Me (Star Wars AU!)

[Guancyto]

Rise and be recognized, citizen! Today is a glorious day to be a member of the Galactic Empire, the greatest engine of prosperity that history has ever known! Together with our protectors, our guardians of peace and order, the Jedi Knights, and under the wise rule of our Emperor Palpatine, reach ever boldly into the future!

Rotting in the hole that is a CorSec-affiliated private prison, that peace and prosperity seems pretty far away. Maybe you've done terrible things and you really do belong here, or maybe the ever-tightening noose of the Empire's laws caught you. Maybe you were a rabble-rouser or a malcontent, which in the Empire's books is far worse than being a murderer or a thief. One thing is for certain, though, and that's that you will spend all your days here, working for the glory of the Empire.

If you're lucky (and you behave), you'll get something cushy like the kitchen, where your odds of getting horribly maimed and/or burned are vaguely tolerable. If not?

Welcome to being a replaceable, non-voluntary cog in the Imperial machine.

But in between the thousand-thousand useless escape plans, there is a whisper of a way out. It almost stinks like a Jedi trap - it's certainly of their religion. But nonetheless, whispered. Written in margins. Graffiti'd in your sight, though your whole block was punished for not giving up the perpetrator.

"The Force shall free me."

---

So! This is sort of a Star Wars alternate universe, based on an idea. A lot of this idea arises from seeing the prequels and thinking, "boy, it sure was convenient that the power-hungry emperor was also the Jedi's ancient religious enemy instead of just a guy, or there might have been a thorny moral dilemma there!" In short, they didn't kill each other this time around, and the Jedi Order are the right hand of the ordered, peaceful Empire. (Failure to be peaceful and orderly may result in Jedi intervention.) The peace and order they bring are of the "boot on neck" variety but hey, at least it's not war and chaos, right?

The PCs start a lot lower than that, as the neck the boot is on; as prisoners. Getting your life back is (probably?) your first priority. Good luck with that.

It'll probably be darker than the usual Star Wars fare; less ANH/RTJ, more ESB/RO

So, who's interested?

Also, I'm a little stuck on which Star Wars-related system to use. There's Fantasy Flight Games' Edge of the Empire (with its weird dice), Star Wars Saga Edition (out of print), and West End Games Space d6 (which is technically not Star Wars anymore but used to be). Or something like FATE or freeform! So I would welcome suggestions on that front.

[Cataclysmic Archangel]

I'd be up for this, absolutely.  I'm a fan of Saga edition myself, and I believe I have most of them in pdf form, so can provide those documents as needed.

Btw, I totally just saw your opening of us staring in a dungeon as 'Skyrim', but with the Star Wars word crawl.

I'd almost be tempted to ask about playing a Sith, because in this scenario, an 'anti-hero' Sith that believes in Passion and Emotion could very well make a good someone bring down the sterile, cold, unfeeling Jedi Order (ever see the movie Equilibrium?)

If not, I have another idea for a Soldier class, but it takes a lot of gear.

[Inerrant Lust]

An idea I have... maybe a Twi'lek female, because naturally. But also, for plot!

Slavery is outlawed in the Empire, but it remains very much a reality just in another name. Twi'lek girls are no longer slaves, but indentured servants, handmaidens, and comfort workers... My character would have been a sort of civil rights protester. Espousing the non-violent philosophy of the Jedi, she joined a movement for Twi'lek equality through peaceful protest. Sit-ins, boycotts, demonstrations, ect.

Of course, then the riot police came, cracked some Lekkus, and hauled off as many as they could grab to jail.

Rather inexplicably, she was transferred from the local cell to the private prison you mentioned in the OP.

[BlackStone]

Color me interested.  As for system if we use one, I toss my hat in for Saga.  I have near all the books on PDF and can share as well.  I would like to put out free form is an option.

[wigglebiscuit]

I'd be down for this, but I've been wanting to play a Twi'lek pilot since I started watching Rebels and I don't want to step on Inerrant's toes...

[Cataclysmic Archangel]

There is ALWAYS room for multiple female twi'leks *sage nod*

Though honestly, I do love long hair.

Ahem.

[Guancyto]

I mean, if everyone wants to be twi'leks, it's handy to have a theme going!

Being Sith is an interesting notion (I mean, if Palpatine isn't, who is?). You probably wouldn't start that way, but develop into it over time if that's the way you wanted to go.

The million dollar question is, how well would Saga Edition support that route? They do kiiiind of propose taking away your character sheet when you get enough darkside points...

(That seems like enough interest, so starting Saga Edition characters gogogo.)

[wigglebiscuit]

I'm trying to buy into this concept, but I can't see Yoda or Obi Wan or any of those guys going down that road. The concept itself is interesting, but I can't see the Jedi order playing along.

[Cataclysmic Archangel]

Sith stuff:  Depending on what level you chose to start at, he obviously would not be Sith, but there's plenty of ways to start that sort of character out.  Self-fulfilling prophecy is a good one: jailed because a Jedi saw him causing trouble, which makes him want to break out and cause trouble.  Etc. 

As for the points and stuff... well, you're the GM, so you can do anything you want there.  I suppose that as long as the character was working in the interest of the campaign, there'd be enough LS points thrown around for good deeds to balance out any mechanical use of DS (If I force lightning someone, they're getting points, end of story).    It does mention in the Core book that the GM can allow a darksider to keep playing as an anti-hero.

To both Wigglebiscuit and Guancyto:  It sounds like these Jedi would turn into more of a very large version of the Imperial Knights, which were big in the Legacy comics and some of the novels.  Think of them as like the Imperial Royal Guard, but force users. (rules are in the Legacy era campaign book).

Don't forget that at the end of Revenge of the Sith, the Jedi WERE working with Chancellor Palpatine.  If he had just been a little more subtle, and didn't tap a Skywalker for his machinations, this reality could have happened.  Sidious was behind the scenes, Dooku was evil incarnate, no one put two and two together, the Jedi could have been blind to it for who knows how long.

[Inerrant Lust]

I'm trying to buy into this concept, but I can't see Yoda or Obi Wan or any of those guys going down that road. The concept itself is interesting, but I can't see the Jedi order playing along.

As I imagine it, the 'point of divergence' must have occurred pretty early down the road, perhaps before the Phantom Menace. The Jedi were pretty clueless, unable to detect Sidious right up until he revealed himself to Anakin. If Palpatine's goal was to corrupt the Jedi instead of to destroy them, I think he'd have been able to do just as good a job. Politically remove the Yoda types, misdirect the Mace Windu types, and appeal to the Anakin types.

People can justify to themselves doing a lot of shady things if it's for the sake of security and peace...

Guan's free to correct me, but I figured the Jedi rule of law was sort of along the lines of thought control. "You're thinking subversive thoughts, citizen." And rather than just executions or anything blatantly dark-sidey like that, they prefer 'reeducation' and social control. Propaganda everywhere; "Don't even think it!" "Jedi, our peacekeepers!"

I mean, in KOTOR, they wiped away a Sith Lord's memories and turned them into an agent for the forces of good. Imagine that same mentality with regular dissidents... and imagine if your idea of 'good' was peace at any cost after a brutal war.

[VonDoom]

Meanwhile, consider that a Sith Lord who, rather than properly convert or destroy, would rather control such a corrupted Jedi Order -- could this, truly, be the Dark Lord of the Sith? It would be quite possible for someone as personally accomplished and headstrong as Dooku, if he had not been turned on unprepared, to pull away and continue the true Sith tradition. Perhaps even with his former apprentice, who even in canon was ever an unusual individual for the Jedi.

I'd be interested if a lightweight more narrative/creative system like Fate -- Core or Accelerated -- was used. I'm sure there's even fan-made Star Wars guides to take advantage of. D20-type systems just never really sat well with me, with their rigid structures, when it came to the Force. Works for a video game that need such structures, but takes away from the mysticism.

The Jedi also had a technique to cut someone off from the Force, at least in the old EU. That and a quest to regain their connection might also be an alternate way to introduce an actual Sith apprentice, depowered and eager for freedom, revenge and renewed power -- which I'd be very interested in playing.

[wigglebiscuit]

These are all intriguing ideas. I think, though, what I am trying to wrap my wee brain around is the question of whether this is a villain-centric game or a hero-centric one? Are we good guys or bad guys?

[VonDoom]

We ... aim to misbehave? 

Though I think the setup is pretty much perfect for a 'needs must' mixed group with their own agendas that happen to be compatible, whether more light or dark-inclined.

[Cataclysmic Archangel]

I was under the impression of 'needs must' also.  It's the beginning of a new Rebellion against something that's more all encompassing, and far less good-vs-evil than the old Empire.

My idea of making a Sith was just thrown out there, because I rather like them as an ideal in general, and it seemed like a good idea.  If people are against that, I could do something else entirely.  But it felt like the right fit in the storyline (although perhaps one where eventually, even he is doomed to fall).

[wigglebiscuit]

I was under the impression of 'needs must' also.  It's the beginning of a new Rebellion against something that's more all encompassing, and far less good-vs-evil than the old Empire.

My idea of making a Sith was just thrown out there, because I rather like them as an ideal in general, and it seemed like a good idea.  If people are against that, I could do something else entirely.  But it felt like the right fit in the storyline (although perhaps one where eventually, even he is doomed to fall).

You could get that mind turning paradox of a former sith driven to the light side to fight the Jedi-turned-dark side.

Would anyone be interested in taking on a twi-lek apprentice?

[Cataclysmic Archangel]

Would anyone be interested in taking on a twi-lek apprentice?

Darth Talon just popped up in my mind, and all I could think was 'fuck yes'   

[VonDoom]

If we go with FATE or another rules-lite system and I do get the opportunity to play a depowered Sith apprentice, definitely also up for it.

[Guancyto]

Some thoughts!

If you wanted to end up as Sith, I'd sooort of rather you not start off as one, but instead develop into it over time? I mean, they're extinct, after all, right? Likewise for a Jedi, because Jedi wouldn't entrust one of their own to the Empire when they can handle their prisoners internally.

If you wanted to be Sith, I would be interested in seeing what you would develop absent the force-user tradition that is exclusively derived from Fallen Jedi. The Rakata used the dark side to fuel their empire for aaages without ever running into problems, right?

A rules-light system would be best just to let you grow and develop in an organic way rather than following a build or anysuch (and if you want to be a twi'lek pilot/lightsaber-swinger, you don't have to make tradoffs toward one or the other), so FATE is an interesting idea to me.

We ... aim to misbehave? 

Though I think the setup is pretty much perfect for a 'needs must' mixed group with their own agendas that happen to be compatible, whether more light or dark-inclined.

Precisely so!

Re: are you the good guys or the bad guys, that's a more complicated question than it first appears. One of my goals for antagonists is called the Ideological Turing Test. What it boils down to is that, if the bad guys somehow broke out of the world and into ours and they were writing their own segments instead of me, would you be able to tell? The upshot of that is that the antagonists never really got the memo that they are the bad guys, and thus will try to act in ways that are consistent with their beliefs. They'll go and do terrible things, but they'll feel they have excellent reasons for them. Even when they don't. In fact, especially when they don't.

So, are you the good guys? The bad guys? Or just the guys with the guns?

The one thing I can say with complete certainty is that you will be rebels, which means that the reigning authority will definitely label you bad guys, and people who hate the reigning authority will probably label you good guys.

(obligatory "from my point of view the Jedi are evil!")

Hm, a potential point in favor of you being good guys is that the likes of Obi-Wan/Ahsoka Tano/et al probably wouldn't stand for the Jedi becoming the boot on neck in the name of galactic security and peace. Of course, see the above bit where Jedi handle their prisoners internally...

Anakin, on the other hand, was probably presented to the council, who heard "bring balance instead of us being in charge for thousands of years" and quietly had him smothered with a pillow. You know, like goddamn sensible people.

[VonDoom]

Hey, thanks for the feedback and glad that FATE is of particular interest! Just a quick question before I start drafting together some ideas: so you're saying you want to see a Sith group that wasn't at all derived from aaancient ancient way past expiration date Fallen Jedi, that you want to see an entirely different sect/group/approach, or was that just directed towards the modern Sith and no longer (almost exclusively, looking at all the canon converts) recruiting from a tainted Jedi source?

[Guancyto]

There's an 'if' in there. You don't have to be Sith, but if you do in fact want to be Sith, I would be much more interested in seeing you make your own Sith rather than deriving it from the "yeah we were Jedi a million years ago and now we fight them all the time and basically everything bad that's ever happened is sort of our fault" Sith.

And I mean, KotOR 2 establishes that there are places strong in the Dark Side that haven't gotten that way from force-users. 'Unbalanced' places where human emotion runs raw and it's hard for a Jedi to remain centered. I wonder how a particularly nasty prison stacks up in that reckoning...

[VonDoom]

Heh. Sounds good to me. I'll see what I can come up with. First thought is a philosophy of extremes that understands that things can't be reduced to a binary choice of light and dark, but for the Force to be strong and pure two poles must exist on each side, to center the Universe, a powerful passion to bring fury and life on one; serenity, calm and peace on the other. This could allow for a period where they literally became the canon Sith, but rather than adopt the rule of two when they suffered near extinction, they rediscovered their roots while the Jedi grew into tyrants, muddling their supposed light without truly becoming what the Sith perceived as dark.

Therefore, the Jedi must be destroyed so that someone else can rise in their place to counterbalance the Sith.

A more philosophical approach but still definitely dark and with an all too easy copout of conveniently forgetting the lofty philosophy and just indulging in the Dark Side.

First quick thoughts on the way to work, anyway. Wouldn't write something like this on my phone normally, but wanted to get the basic notion coursing through my head out there.

[Cataclysmic Archangel]

I should start by saying I've never heard of FATE, so most of this means little to me.  My experience on group games on E that involved Light to freeform games tended to go poorly, but that may have also been tied to the DMs.  I'll admit I was really hoping on the D20 system for the same reason I've been trying to find a 3.5 game; I enjoy the system.  So... we'll see what everyone else decides on, I suppose.

With that said, since VD seems to have his heart set on the idea of a Sith, I'll bow out of that concept and start thinking of other things instead.  I had an idea for a soldier'y type that might work really well, but like I said earlier it was heavily gear dependent.  Not the concept, but at least the combat style.  Like any good fighter/soldier type.  That guy from Rogue One wasn't nearly as much fun without his repeating blaster, for instance.

[VonDoom]

I'd say our ideas are definitely compatible, Arcannyx -- as I understood it, you wanted to play a Force Sensitive set to become a Sith as the adventure goes, whereas I want to go for a Sith who is already immersed in the teachings but lost his power and seeks to regain it. If Guancyto is amenable to the Sith becoming a fairly prominent presence in the game, these could mesh very well. Provided you're interested, of course.

[Cataclysmic Archangel]

Perhaps. However since this group is seemingly very small, it might be useful to have people that are actually spread out across the various (for lack of a better term) classes.  4 rebels out of millions or billions in this new regime, and two of those are Sith or something like it? 

It was simply a rough concept as soon as I heard the posting, that a renegade (which would mean Sith, embracing their code) would work perfectly.  But I also like seeing characters get to play their snowflakeness, so....

I'll keep it on the table, but I'd want a concept radical enough to actually seem like something else. 

[shmone else]

The setting for this sounds fascinating. I wish they'd gone in this kind of direction for settings like the Old Republic rather than 'it's always been Jedi vs. Sith, for real. Also there's an Empire that's basically but not exactly the Empire, for reasons'. I'm largely ambivalent on the system - I enjoy Saga and I have the books handy, but it definitely lends itself more to setting up a build a la 3.x rather than having the characters develop on their own. I've got some experience with Fate systems too so either one of those sound good to me.

Character-wise I'm thinking some kind of thief with a side of hacking, but what form that'll take is going to depend on the system we end up with.