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Author Topic: Are divorce laws in the Anglosphere about to change?  (Read 845 times)

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Offline SovelissTopic starter

Are divorce laws in the Anglosphere about to change?
« on: June 06, 2016, 04:22:01 PM »
So a very reasonable man I've been following recently posted a video covering a story.

It's the typical divorce horror story I keep reading about everywhere, where a woman who didn't contributed much leaves with a big settlement without any wrongdoing from the man... Except the genders are reversed.

On one hand, I feel sad from the woman. Assuming she didn't get her assets from her first divorce, she didn't deserve that. I can't see many people who deserve to be gutted out like a fish in family courts.

On the other hand, my first thought was "Good. Now that women are starting to get gutted in divorce courts, maybe the broken laws will get changed. Most things that are broken in society only get fixed when women start getting hit after all". She may not deserve it, but maybe she's the canary in the coal mine that will get attention toward the fact that the laws in the Anglosphere are broken as shit. Maybe some good for lots of people will come out of this. It's a damn shame, but people society cares about have to get hurt before society is willing to change things that hurt the ones it doesn't care about.

Here's the story if you're interested. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3513160/The-wife-s-paying-price-equality-Jane-s-s-not-just-men-hit-huge-divorce-payouts-half-walks-says-s-unjust.html

So what do you think about that?

Offline TaintedAndDelish

Re: Are divorce laws in the Anglosphere about to change?
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2016, 08:27:38 PM »
In the US, I think the way it works is if you are married to and live with someone for a long enough time ( I think 10 or 15 years ), then they are entitled to half of what is mutually owned. So if you bought a house together, the spouse gets half - even if they never worked a day in their life and the house is technically in your name. Yeah, in this particular case, that was a pretty crappy thing to do.

Offline Renegade Vile

Re: Are divorce laws in the Anglosphere about to change?
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2016, 02:50:10 AM »
While the laws are certainly broken, and in dire need of change, I don't know if this will set a meaningful precedent. I'm sure things like this will have to happen a lot more times before things swing one way or the other.

Offline Lilias

Re: Are divorce laws in the Anglosphere about to change?
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2016, 04:26:21 AM »
This is a cautionary tale not to take promises concerning money any more seriously than the hot air they are. If you want a financial settlement, get it down in writing in advance. Also, anyone who hasn't been living under a rock knows that starting a new business carries a sizeable chance of it failing and taking the risk means being prepared to lose.

It wasn't that long ago that the world was full of dowry hunters who would legally appropriate the assets their wives brought in and could abandon them with absolutely nothing. (Why do you think the cultural emphasis in women not marrying beneath them is still holding?) If people are worried about financial settlements in case of divorce, they should sign a prenup and be done with it.


Offline Renegade Vile

Re: Are divorce laws in the Anglosphere about to change?
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2016, 04:36:29 AM »
If people are worried about financial settlements in case of divorce, they should sign a prenup and be done with it.

Agreed, though apparently prenups don't hold up all that well in most cases, should one or the other want to contest it. No idea if that's true, though.

Offline Pumpkin Seeds

Re: Are divorce laws in the Anglosphere about to change?
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2016, 07:59:01 AM »
Rarely can someone say that a partner in a marriage does absolutely nothing and makes no contribution to the household.  So what part of divorce laws are people wanting to change? 

Offline Renegade Vile

Re: Are divorce laws in the Anglosphere about to change?
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2016, 08:15:08 AM »
Rarely can someone say that a partner in a marriage does absolutely nothing and makes no contribution to the household.  So what part of divorce laws are people wanting to change?

I believe the issue is that, in certain countries, divorce laws favor women in the court affair, much in the same vein as custody issues. Not sure to what degree this is true in the US, but in Belgium the divorce process is pretty much split down the middle where things like property, belongings, alimony, etc, are concerned and I've only heard of people getting essentially robbed in court during very messy divorces if they either had a bad lawyer, or extremely underhanded tactics were used by the other side to make sure the former leaves the table with a destroyed livelihood. The people who leave the table like that here, as as I know, can be either gender if you're unlucky. But I've heard it often that in other countries (US, UK, I think Germany too) it happens far more often to men.

Offline Pumpkin Seeds

Re: Are divorce laws in the Anglosphere about to change?
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2016, 03:51:24 PM »
That can pretty much happen in any court dispute.  This would be the value of bringing in a good lawyer.  A divorce is essentially splitting a unified household into two.  There are going to be some hurt feelings no matter the outcome.  Also, despite the seeming stereotype that women come out ahead in divorce most reports that I see are that men economically benefit from divorce.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2016, 03:54:28 PM by Pumpkin Seeds »

Offline Kythia

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Re: Are divorce laws in the Anglosphere about to change?
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2016, 04:17:08 PM »
That can pretty much happen in any court dispute.  This would be the value of bringing in a good lawyer.  A divorce is essentially splitting a unified household into two.  There are going to be some hurt feelings no matter the outcome.  Also, despite the seeming stereotype that women come out ahead in divorce most reports that I see are that men economically benefit from divorce.

Certainly in the UK (stats) no idea about other countries.  Statistically rare horror stories aside, men overwhelmingly get richer after divorce and women poorer.

Offline TaintedAndDelish

Re: Are divorce laws in the Anglosphere about to change?
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2016, 10:22:27 PM »
Statistically rare horror stories aside, men overwhelmingly get richer after divorce and women poorer.

Out of curiosity, why is that? ( generally speaking)

Offline Lilias

Re: Are divorce laws in the Anglosphere about to change?
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2016, 01:52:44 AM »
Out of curiosity, why is that? ( generally speaking)

Mostly, because men have fewer mouths to feed, while maintenance payment, even when duly paid, generally doesn't come to the pre-split living standard.

Offline HannibalBarca

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Re: Are divorce laws in the Anglosphere about to change?
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2016, 06:20:57 PM »
Quote
Mostly, because men have fewer mouths to feed, while maintenance payment, even when duly paid, generally doesn't come to the pre-split living standard.

That's exactly it.  The custody of the children tend to go to the woman, or even in a fair split, tend to spend most of their time with the mother.  That means the majority of the expenses lie with the woman.  Even paying alimony or child support, a man tends to do better in a divorce.  Tends to; there are always outliers.

I don't have a problem paying my ex for our son.  I'd much prefer him to spend more time with me, but we live in separate towns, and the schools in her town are light years ahead of the schools in mine.

Still...we had two houses to deal with when we divorced.  I took the older one that was worth less, she took the newer one worth more.  But it was when she wanted it stipulated that if I sold the house, she'd get half of the profit, but not the same for her house should she sell it, that I had to draw the line.  Every case is different.

Offline Renegade Vile

Re: Are divorce laws in the Anglosphere about to change?
« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2016, 01:48:45 AM »
I do wonder how many cases exist where men have been entirely skinned by their former spouses, and whether or not this happens more often for men than it does for women. I don't necessarily mean being left with less by the end of it, because lady Lilias already pointed out that that occurs more to women. I mean maliciously being targeted and skinned of as much as possible. It is kind of a horror story that floats around and is one of the big boogeymen for adult males.

Offline Lilias

Re: Are divorce laws in the Anglosphere about to change?
« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2016, 04:26:50 AM »
I do wonder how many cases exist where men have been entirely skinned by their former spouses, and whether or not this happens more often for men than it does for women. I don't necessarily mean being left with less by the end of it, because lady Lilias already pointed out that that occurs more to women. I mean maliciously being targeted and skinned of as much as possible. It is kind of a horror story that floats around and is one of the big boogeymen for adult males.

The only way I can see such a thing happening is if the wife empties out the joint accounts before everything is split up. Simply high maintenance payments won't generally ruin men. It may look like it at first, because some of the bigger assets, like houses, might need to be liquidated in order to be split fairly (that's where any cases of declaring bankruptcy come in). However, the particular stage needn't last very long. The biggest asset of most men is their career, which gets consistently undervalued in the settlement, despite generally flourishing afterwards.

Generally, this 'bloody gold-digger will fleece you when she leaves' looks like an urban legend perpetuated by MGOTOWs.

Offline Pumpkin Seeds

Re: Are divorce laws in the Anglosphere about to change?
« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2016, 05:28:34 AM »
I will have to try and find the article I was reading over in regard to this topic.  The summation though is that the loss of assets is quite small and does little damage to the overall lifestyle and income factors.   

Offline Renegade Vile

Re: Are divorce laws in the Anglosphere about to change?
« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2016, 05:31:09 AM »
The only way I can see such a thing happening is if the wife empties out the joint accounts before everything is split up. Simply high maintenance payments won't generally ruin men. It may look like it at first, because some of the bigger assets, like houses, might need to be liquidated in order to be split fairly (that's where any cases of declaring bankruptcy come in). However, the particular stage needn't last very long. The biggest asset of most men is their career, which gets consistently undervalued in the settlement, despite generally flourishing afterwards.

Hm, that makes sense. At least when things are done legally. I know my uncle got robbed out of a lot of his things, but that's because he literally got robbed by his ex-wife *winces*.
I will say that while the career is definitely important, I still can't imagine it being very enjoyable to see a lot of what you worked for up to that point get taken away. It's just material things, after all, but humans have this odd tendency to get attached even to trivial looking things like a tv.

Generally, this 'bloody gold-digger will fleece you when she leaves' looks like an urban legend perpetuated by MGOTOWs.

It's older than MGTOWs though, but I'm sure bringing this up is usually high on the bullet point lists of many of them.

I will have to try and find the article I was reading over in regard to this topic.  The summation though is that the loss of assets is quite small and does little damage to the overall lifestyle and income factors.   

What you lost, you can buy again *nods*. Of course, if a divorce ends up such a mess, I think it'll sting more than just one's wallet.

Offline Aethereal

Re: Are divorce laws in the Anglosphere about to change?
« Reply #16 on: June 15, 2016, 05:57:01 AM »
           I can see material assets being split/liquidated being an issue where we're dealing with an actual house, especially one which one of the counterparts owned before the marriage. If almost all of your extra of fifteen years went into that, then no, that's not something you can easily re-buy. (Which is why it might be safer to make premarital arrangements in regards to such things, as unromantic as it might be.)

Offline Renegade Vile

Re: Are divorce laws in the Anglosphere about to change?
« Reply #17 on: June 15, 2016, 05:58:19 AM »
(Which is why it might be safer to make premarital arrangements in regards to such things, as unromantic as it might be.)

I think that's one of the biggest hang-ups some people have with prenups and the like. It can so easily be misconstrued as "you think this marriage will fail" instead of just being a precaution. No one can see the future, after all.

Offline Lilias

Re: Are divorce laws in the Anglosphere about to change?
« Reply #18 on: June 15, 2016, 06:14:01 AM »
It's older than MGTOWs though, but I'm sure bringing this up is usually high on the bullet point lists of many of them.

I didn't say they invented it, only that they're perpetuating it (with rather disturbing glee, I'll add).

Offline Renegade Vile

Re: Are divorce laws in the Anglosphere about to change?
« Reply #19 on: June 15, 2016, 01:10:33 PM »
I didn't say they invented it, only that they're perpetuating it (with rather disturbing glee, I'll add).

Some do anyway, I've seen some MGTOW people that don't really bother anyone and only do what their name says they should be doing. But, of course, every single one of these ideologies attracts a healthy helping of fruitcakes.