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Author Topic: D&D for EVIL Characters/Party  (Read 12453 times)

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Offline GrinningHound

Re: D&D for EVIL Characters/Party
« Reply #50 on: November 18, 2008, 12:29:50 AM »
Haha, great.  Fighter/Rogue it just might be.  Hmmm....

He won't be as butch as a straight up fighter as quickly, but he will have more potential, and options...

Do Theives get the 2XP per GP thing?  I recall that from when I used to play 2nd edition for some reason.  I was young though.  :P


Offline GrinningHound

Re: D&D for EVIL Characters/Party
« Reply #51 on: November 18, 2008, 01:51:30 AM »
Eww, Exceptional Strength roll sucked.  :(  http://elliquiy.com/forums/dicebot.php?r=6486
.  It's a 30.

Is it possible to raise stats without the aid of magic over time?  In third edition you can give a +1 to a stat every 4 levels.  No matter, 18/30 and 18/100 both become the same 19 with just a +1 magic bonus.  :D

This is gonna be a really, really rough draft.

Gorin Murricane.  N Fighter/Thief.

Str 18/30 (22) +1 hit, +3 dmg, 135 weight, 280 max press, 12 open doors, 20% BBLG
Dex 9 (9)  Average, enough to be a Thief.
Con 16 (18)  Manly man.  +2 HP, 95% SShock, 96% ResRevive
Int 9 (9)  Average.  2 Languages.
Wis 8 (8 ) Average, just enough to not get penalized.
Cha 9 (9) Average, no penalties.

Aww...I really wanted some better mental stats, but that hit point bonus is just too juicy to give up.  I may change it.

Umm...I'll work out the rest when I have a nice background for you.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2011, 04:41:09 AM by Administrator »

Offline The Great Triangle

Re: D&D for EVIL Characters/Party
« Reply #52 on: November 18, 2008, 06:16:28 AM »
2nd edition doesn't provide +1 magic bonuses.  Instead, strength boosts set a character's strength to a certain level.  I believe strength 19 is gauntlets of Ogre Strength.

Offline GrinningHound

Re: D&D for EVIL Characters/Party
« Reply #53 on: November 18, 2008, 02:05:21 PM »
Hmm...professional opinion, Triangle.  Should I drop Con down to no HP bonus and put some points in mental stats?  Though, I would need quite a few points to get any kind of a bonus in them...

Offline The Great Triangle

Re: D&D for EVIL Characters/Party
« Reply #54 on: November 18, 2008, 03:55:10 PM »
Fighters shouldn't really bother with mental stats.  You can comfortably dump charisma to 8 or so, and intellegence you can drop down to 7 or even 6 without becoming a monosylabic moron.  Wisdom is the only score I might consider putting extra points in, and that's only so you can get the saving throw bonus to compensate for your poor fighter saves.


Offline OldSchoolGamerTopic starter

Re: D&D for EVIL Characters/Party
« Reply #55 on: November 18, 2008, 08:14:40 PM »
Fighters shouldn't really bother with mental stats.  You can comfortably dump charisma to 8 or so, and intellegence you can drop down to 7 or even 6 without becoming a monosylabic moron.  Wisdom is the only score I might consider putting extra points in, and that's only so you can get the saving throw bonus to compensate for your poor fighter saves.

I would urge some caution with using INT or CHA as a dump stat, especially if you envision your character becoming a leader.  My games tend to be well-rounded.  All the stats count, if some more than others...   ;)

Offline The Great Triangle

Re: D&D for EVIL Characters/Party
« Reply #56 on: November 18, 2008, 08:37:00 PM »
My character isn't as smart as some, but he makes up for it through sheer force of personality, and the fact that he has a very clear head.  He may not be able to come up with a very sophisticated plot of doom, but he'll at least get enough people on his side that everyone will assume he's operating plans within plans.

Offline GrinningHound

Re: D&D for EVIL Characters/Party
« Reply #57 on: November 19, 2008, 12:18:17 AM »
I want my character to be relatively cunning and perceptive, and I also want him to be likeable and forceful enough to become a leader.

For another 4 or so points in any of the mental stats, there is no actual TECHNICAL benefit that I can see...though I guess it would be helpful with some nonweapon prof rolls, right?  Besides, I find it sort of cheating to play a character as crafty if his intelligence is only a 6.

Hmmm....what's the point of putting 18 points into STR, if STR boosting items give a score, instead of a bonus?  Gauntlets of Giant Strength or whatever bring it to 19, whether the base stat is a 15 or an 18, right?  Seems like the premium on points for a stat above 14 could be better spent elsewhere, if that's the case.

Offline OldSchoolGamerTopic starter

Re: D&D for EVIL Characters/Party
« Reply #58 on: November 19, 2008, 12:24:08 AM »
Putting points in other stats is beneficial for nonweapon prof checks, as well as score checks.  For instance, your character may be confronted with a mathematical puzzle, and would need to make an INT check (roll below INT on a d20) to succeed.

Oh, another question I neglected to answer: do rogues get double xp for finding treasure?  The answer is no...with a qualifier.  In my games, there is no straight xp-per-gp award.  If your thief picks a pocket and winds up with a 100gp gem, yes, he or she probably will get some xp for successful use of an ability as well as profit.  A warrior could just kick the ass of the person with the pocket and take the gem away from him...in which case he would get xp for kicking an ass plus profiting from the gem.  A wizard might charm the victim and convince him that giving the gem to him would be a very smart thing to do...in which case the mage would get xp from casting a spell successfully as well as profiting.  And so on.

Offline The Great Triangle

Re: D&D for EVIL Characters/Party
« Reply #59 on: November 19, 2008, 12:25:00 AM »
It'll take you a long time to get those items, and they'll always be vulnurable to dispel magic and various traps.  There's also antimagic fields, and the fact that there's something to be said for "The epic warrior valiantly wrestled the dragon to the ground."  vs. "The Gauntlets of Ogre strength overcame the dragon.  Some guy happened to be attatched to them at the time too."

Offline OldSchoolGamerTopic starter

Re: D&D for EVIL Characters/Party
« Reply #60 on: November 19, 2008, 12:37:29 AM »
Magic items of that nature are uncommon in my worlds.  Generally an item gives a straight point bonus.  Some spells do likewise, and some specialty priests have the ability to raise a score temporarily.  Potions are more typically the way things are done, though in all but a handful of cases the effect is temporary.

Offline GrinningHound

Re: D&D for EVIL Characters/Party
« Reply #61 on: November 19, 2008, 12:39:48 AM »
Ahhh, very nice.  So a guy with an 18 STR and a STR booster is better than a chump with 12 STR and the same booster.  Yaaaay it's nice to be special.  :D

Now, to work on tweaking those other numbers around.  I don't want to play an oaf.

Offline OldSchoolGamerTopic starter

Re: D&D for EVIL Characters/Party
« Reply #62 on: November 19, 2008, 12:42:20 AM »
Also bear in mind that, with my point system, high scores are actually unusual.  Scores had a way of getting rather inflated...you had to have a 16 or 17 to be taken seriously.  In my world, 14 is above-average.  15 is notable.  16 is talked about.  17 is exceptional, usually occuring in maybe 1-2% of the population.  18 is truly rare.

Offline GrinningHound

Re: D&D for EVIL Characters/Party
« Reply #63 on: November 19, 2008, 12:53:21 AM »
So an 18 STR is pretty biblical stuff, huh?  I probably won't be going up against bandits and knights with equal might.  :D

Offline OldSchoolGamerTopic starter

Re: D&D for EVIL Characters/Party
« Reply #64 on: November 19, 2008, 10:15:36 PM »
Well, not exactly Biblical, but at least bordering on epic. 

Offline OldSchoolGamerTopic starter

Re: D&D for EVIL Characters/Party
« Reply #65 on: November 20, 2008, 09:03:55 PM »
Oh, my, lord!  Am i too late?  May i please play?  May i?  May i?  *bounce!* 

By the way, you're welcome to join up.

Offline OldSchoolGamerTopic starter

Re: D&D for EVIL Characters/Party
« Reply #66 on: November 20, 2008, 09:05:36 PM »
Okay ladies and germs, let's go ahead and flesh out those characters.  You get max for starting gp.  Plus go into the background of your character, at least some of it.  I'll be assigning quirks based on the backgrounds and your stated goals.

Offline The Great Triangle

Re: D&D for EVIL Characters/Party
« Reply #67 on: November 20, 2008, 09:38:49 PM »
Madragail was born in an alley to a whore who died in childbirth.  His father, a wealthy noble, took him in, and tried to give him the best of everything, but when he got a male heir four years later, he "discovered" Madragail's heritage, and cast him out.  The young boy was adopted by a group of Balseraphs, nomadic carnival folk.  The tribe of Balseraphs that took him into their traveling carnival, however, happened to be worshipers of Lunis.  As he grew up, he was instructed in the arts of fortune telling and hucksterism, and showed a particular affinity for socialization and memorizing local legends.  At age 16, the cult of Lunis decided to choose him to be trained in the worship and theology of the goddess, finding him quite worthy, but far too sickly and weak to become a true lycanthrope. 

For four grueling years, Madragail trained under the vicious Tsen Mara, an infamous bandit queen and worshiper of Lunis.  (F Half Orc Thief/Priest of Lunis 3)  While under Mara's training, Madragail had no rights, and was sometimes forced to engaged in painful ritual sex acts, as well as receiving several piercings in places he'd rather not mention.  After completing his training, he returned to the town of his birth, and began to serve in the orphanage of Lunis under Valgar Yang, mastermind of the indoctrination scheme.  (M. Human Priest of Lunis 3)

In the short term, Madragail wishes to ruin the life of his half brother, Adam Lois, as revenge for taking away his life of comfort.  After that, he wants to ruin his father, Baron Nathaniel Lois, and possibly reclaim his noble title.  Once he's become a noble or disposed of his past, he intends to spread crime and chaos throughout the land, to erode the foundations of civilization and create a better environment for the worship of the goddess to thrive. 

Madragail is not a strong man, and he is not a brave man.  What he does have, however, is a gift for making people cooperate with him.  The bastard priest would be far happier at the back rank of an army of thugs, letting them dispose of what ails him, rather then off smiting his enemies on the front lines.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2008, 07:35:14 AM by The Great Triangle »

Offline The Great Triangle

Re: D&D for EVIL Characters/Party
« Reply #68 on: November 21, 2008, 08:48:37 AM »
Some ideas about the Balseraphs, if the GM is interested:

The Balseraphs are a chaotic, nomadic civilization with a tendency towards evil.  Their civilization is divided into six castes, or tribes,

Kinkers: The Kinkers are a group of chaotic good acrobats with a flair for dance and ropework.  They construct beautiful and elaborate tents supported by massive amounts of rope and only a few support beams, and engage in impressive midair ballets that delight audiences.  Of course, those who stay after the show might very well be invited to learn some other interesting uses for knots...  Most Kinkers are either elves or half elves, although they have many races in their ranks.

Lunarians: The Lunarians are a chaotic evil embodiment of barely controlled libido.  Dangerously sexually open even by Balseraph standards, Lunarians routinely engage in and even celebrate incest and various forms of experimental bestiality, in honor of their goddess Lunis.  In spite of their horrid deviancy, people still come to their freak shows and consult their oracles, drawn by a morbid curiosity.  Nearly any conceivable race or combination of races can be found represented in the Lunarians, though more than half of them are still human.  At least on the outside.

Maniacs: To the maniacs, humour is the greatest thing in the world, greater than anything else.  At their core, the chaotic neutral maniacs believe that the gods of goodness have forsaken man, and given him the ability to laugh as his only tool to repel the darkness within and without.  Maniacs often wear strange face paint, brightly colored wigs, and large, silly hats.  Though local religious leaders do not welcome their philosophical views (which creep into their humour) their cultural practices greatly amuse people, who keep welcoming them.  Most maniacs are human, but there are a significant number of orcs and half orcs among them.

Meloncholio: The Maniacs claim that the Meloncholio arose from discontented maniacs, who found humor an inefficient way to distract themselves from the horror of existence.  Naturally, the Meloncholio claim just the opposite.  The Meloncholio are a quiet, somber people who lead lives of quiet religious contemplation, maintaining a vow of silence their entire lives.  The Meloncholio wear white face paint, occasionally with stylization to indicate their mood.  Like all Balseraphs, the Meloncholio hold carnivals, but their carnivals are quiet, somber affairs that local leaders often force their charges to visit, for their moral improvement.  The lawful neutral Meloncholio are almost all human.

Midwayers: The Midwayers are the pentultimate gamblers and game players of the world.  The Chaotic Evil Midwayers view everything in life as a game, in emulation of their goddess Kalestra.  Midwayers are often dressed in vainglorious finery, often getting buttons and clasps made of gold and silver.  Midwayer caravans are basically traveling casinos, and more than a few Midwayers have taken to traveling by boat, becoming a floating manifestation of vice.  People are drawn into Midwayer carnivals by greed and glamour, and quite often end up losing much more than just their money.  Most Midwayers are human, but there are a number of Gnomes and Trolls among them as well.

Punkushers: The Chaotic Neutral Punkushers are the driving force between Balseraph civilization, the reason why anyone even recognizes the term "Balseraph" anymore.  The Punkushers are the ring leaders of the Balseraph circus, and have notable skill in getting the disparate tribes to work together.  In their own caravans, Punkushers often capitalize on local holidays and festivals, rapidly constructing exhibits and shows to entertain revelers.  Even if the holidays they hijack aren't meant to be celebrated in such a fashion, the Punkushers find some way to distort the celebrations.  Punkushers have a highly unpredictable appearance, and an affinity for calendars.  The Punkusher tribe is a mix of dwarves and humans, with a small number of goblins mixed in as well.


The six tribes of the Balseraphs meet once a year for the Balseraph circus, in which they combine their talents to put on a truly astounding spectacle.  (which it is often difficult to escape without being tainted by chaos.)  The city hosting the circus is chosen seemingly randomly each year, and is just as likely to be devastated by the event as it is to thrive from it.  In the short term, at least, the damage will be catastrophic.  Several kings have tried to destroy the Belseraphs by sacking their circus, but such attempts are often dangerously foolish, as even the Meloncholio can fight quite admirably if forced to.  (One king even left his castle to greet his victorious army, only to realize he had been tricked by the Punkushers.)

Offline Servant Girl

Re: D&D for EVIL Characters/Party
« Reply #69 on: November 22, 2008, 03:40:39 PM »
Hi- are there any slots left?  I'd love to play a thief!

Offline The Great Triangle

Re: D&D for EVIL Characters/Party
« Reply #70 on: November 22, 2008, 03:55:51 PM »
I think there's enough slots in general, although that's up to the GM.  :)

We could always use a rogue to get those ever elusive world ending artifacts.  XD

Offline RubySlippers

Re: D&D for EVIL Characters/Party
« Reply #71 on: November 22, 2008, 04:27:11 PM »
Some ideas about the Balseraphs, if the GM is interested:

The Balseraphs are a chaotic, nomadic civilization with a tendency towards evil.  Their civilization is divided into six castes, or tribes,

Kinkers: The Kinkers are a group of chaotic good acrobats with a flair for dance and ropework.  They construct beautiful and elaborate tents supported by massive amounts of rope and only a few support beams, and engage in impressive midair ballets that delight audiences.  Of course, those who stay after the show might very well be invited to learn some other interesting uses for knots...  Most Kinkers are either elves or half elves, although they have many races in their ranks.

Lunarians: The Lunarians are a chaotic evil embodiment of barely controlled libido.  Dangerously sexually open even by Balseraph standards, Lunarians routinely engage in and even celebrate incest and various forms of experimental bestiality, in honor of their goddess Lunis.  In spite of their horrid deviancy, people still come to their freak shows and consult their oracles, drawn by a morbid curiosity.  Nearly any conceivable race or combination of races can be found represented in the Lunarians, though more than half of them are still human.  At least on the outside.

Maniacs: To the maniacs, humour is the greatest thing in the world, greater than anything else.  At their core, the chaotic neutral maniacs believe that the gods of goodness have forsaken man, and given him the ability to laugh as his only tool to repel the darkness within and without.  Maniacs often wear strange face paint, brightly colored wigs, and large, silly hats.  Though local religious leaders do not welcome their philosophical views (which creep into their humour) their cultural practices greatly amuse people, who keep welcoming them.  Most maniacs are human, but there are a significant number of orcs and half orcs among them.

Meloncholio: The Maniacs claim that the Meloncholio arose from discontented maniacs, who found humor an inefficient way to distract themselves from the horror of existence.  Naturally, the Meloncholio claim just the opposite.  The Meloncholio are a quiet, somber people who lead lives of quiet religious contemplation, maintaining a vow of silence their entire lives.  The Meloncholio wear white face paint, occasionally with stylization to indicate their mood.  Like all Balseraphs, the Meloncholio hold carnivals, but their carnivals are quiet, somber affairs that local leaders often force their charges to visit, for their moral improvement.  The lawful neutral Meloncholio are almost all human.

Midwayers: The Midwayers are the pentultimate gamblers and game players of the world.  The Chaotic Evil Midwayers view everything in life as a game, in emulation of their goddess Kalestra.  Midwayers are often dressed in vainglorious finery, often getting buttons and clasps made of gold and silver.  Midwayer caravans are basically traveling casinos, and more than a few Midwayers have taken to traveling by boat, becoming a floating manifestation of vice.  People are drawn into Midwayer carnivals by greed and glamour, and quite often end up losing much more than just their money.  Most Midwayers are human, but there are a number of Gnomes and Trolls among them as well.

Punkushers: The Chaotic Neutral Punkushers are the driving force between Balseraph civilization, the reason why anyone even recognizes the term "Balseraph" anymore.  The Punkushers are the ring leaders of the Balseraph circus, and have notable skill in getting the disparate tribes to work together.  In their own caravans, Punkushers often capitalize on local holidays and festivals, rapidly constructing exhibits and shows to entertain revelers.  Even if the holidays they hijack aren't meant to be celebrated in such a fashion, the Punkushers find some way to distort the celebrations.  Punkushers have a highly unpredictable appearance, and an affinity for calendars.  The Punkusher tribe is a mix of dwarves and humans, with a small number of goblins mixed in as well.


The six tribes of the Balseraphs meet once a year for the Balseraph circus, in which they combine their talents to put on a truly astounding spectacle.  (which it is often difficult to escape without being tainted by chaos.)  The city hosting the circus is chosen seemingly randomly each year, and is just as likely to be devastated by the event as it is to thrive from it.  In the short term, at least, the damage will be catastrophic.  Several kings have tried to destroy the Belseraphs by sacking their circus, but such attempts are often dangerously foolish, as even the Meloncholio can fight quite admirably if forced to.  (One king even left his castle to greet his victorious army, only to realize he had been tricked by the Punkushers.)

Oooooooooo nice, can I join up? 

I think we can add another though -

Sorellos: The Neutral Evil Sorellos are the more tempered band of the Balseraphs devoted to prostitution, crime and villiany and the worst excesses of the bands mostly to make money and use that money to gain power. Not well thought of they buy access to power and sport alliances to guilds across the known world. You can meet all kinds in the organization from orcs to refined elves depending on their specialty. Their circuses are often rather fun with whores and acts of sexual excesses, orgies and the others not inolved rob the location blind even going to nearby communities and even robbing their own after all if they were smart they would be more careful. But they will not kill another in their tribe accept in self-defense. Its their only one point of honor but that doesn't mean they won't use non-lethal options.

Offline The Great Triangle

Re: D&D for EVIL Characters/Party
« Reply #72 on: November 22, 2008, 05:34:13 PM »
That seems to fit in well enough, although they might not get formally invited to the circus by the Punkushers, given their neutral alignment.  (Sure, the Meloncholio might actually be lawful, but they make the maniacs so much more amusing, and make the local authority figures feel conflicted about the circus.)

The Sorellos may have once had a more formal role in the Balseraphs, but the alliances they formed with guilds caused them to be considered "sell outs," leading to them being pushed to the edge of the circus.  Of course, abandoning Balseraph traditions, they're actually thriving.even if they are gradually transforming from a nomadic carnival into an international thieves guild.

Offline RubySlippers

Re: D&D for EVIL Characters/Party
« Reply #73 on: November 22, 2008, 06:25:14 PM »
We can make them many alignments actually the CN and CE ones might be the fun factions of the group and the NE and LE ones the businessmen and connivers, with their hands in and out of different pots. This would keep the family factions guessing as to what they are up to and most would appear just another line of the business running whoring and sex romps, some thieving but overall not offensive. But some might be just wrong minded but no one can be sure and have more power outside the groups and feeding that to their faction a bit. That should make them extra fun to play.

Offline The Great Triangle

Re: D&D for EVIL Characters/Party
« Reply #74 on: November 22, 2008, 06:34:55 PM »
That is possible, although it might function better on the tribal level than on the civilization level.  NE and LE members of the various tribes (other than the Kinkers) are quite possible, and probobly required for them to survive.  The listed alignment of the tribe simply describes the typical individual from that tribe, and most tribes contain signifigant numbers of people either one step away on the good/evil axis or on any part of the law/chaos axis.

(since you won't likely see many CG Lunarians, although CG maniacs are quite possible.)