Kickboxing experience

[Dez]

I'm currently looking for someone that has Kickboxing experience. At the moment this is research. I have questions that, when answered, will enable me to provide more depth to a story that I'm "kicking" around -- please pardon the pun!

Please PM or answer here if you can help. Anything will be appreciated!

Thanks!!!!!

[Fenrisulfr]

I have done some kickboxing, but never competed (and have done a few other martial arts). I have a coworker that are currently training (that might be literal, as I think he's there at the moment) and have gone a couple of matches at local level. So I can pass through a few questions to him if I can't answer them myself.

So, ask away if you like. :)

[consortium11]

"Kickboxing" is quite a wide term that can (or at least has) been used to cover pretty much everything from point-stop traditional martial arts to Muay Thai so a few more specifics may be helpful when asking for advice.

That said, I've trained kickboxing (in the "dutch" style) and Muay Thai for a number of years both specifically and as part of wider MMA training as well as MMA, boxing and a couple of traditional martial arts so I may well be able to answer any questions you have.

[Dez]

Thank you for responding, Fenrisulfr and consortium11. I've been in touch with another via PM who has also provided me with information. I will ask you both, the same questions:

I suppose I could have done some online research, but I'm looking for specifics on the following:

Intensity of training;
Mind over matter -- ie the pain threshold, if any
Extremism -- how often, if at all, do people push themselves to the extreme
What does the training entail?
Is the diet different?
How would one elevate themselves from merely 'training' to participating in fights (as seen on TV -- I've never watched one)
How would a woman's training differ from that of a man, if at all?
How many styles are there? I have been informed that there are MANY styles!
How would you choose one from another? Are they all similar? If not, how different are they?
As a beginning, where and how would one start?
Do women receive the same training, or is it different?
I'm not looking for anything easy, gentle or "nice". As I'm sure there are also a plethora of websites out there offering this, do you have suggestions? Perhaps something on Youtube, as well?
Do you still do this? If so, what is the most rewarding for you as far as "work-out" goes?
Additionally.... do you believe that a story about this could be written to be believable?

What I have is this, so far: A slightly overweight woman has a life-altering experience. She would "transform" herself. Which brings me to inquire further --- say this woman is about 75 pounds overweight (I realize that this would be dependent on her regiment or schedule), how long would it take for her, or anyone else for that matter, to notice a difference? Let's say that her ultimate goal is to reach 115-120 pounds, and go from there.

Thanks in advance, as any and all help is greatly appreciated!

[consortium11]

Intensity of training;

Pretty much entirely dependent on what style and what sort of teacher you have. At the weaker end you get things like cardio kickboxing at the most intense you get things like Muay Thai camps in Thailand.

In general if someone is doing training at a kickboxing gym dedicated to getting people into fighting shape it's going to be pretty intense.

Mind over matter -- ie the pain threshold, if any

Quite a lot, especially to begin with. You've got intense training, your knuckles and shins generally aren't conditioned to taking punches and if/when you start sparring getting punched in the nose or taking a knee to the ribs can really hurt, even if only thrown at half-power.

Extremism -- how often, if at all, do people push themselves to the extreme

Actually not quite as often as you may think, especially in serious gyms where they're training people to compete in fights. If you push yourself to the extreme you heighten the risk of injury, if you're injured you can't compete. There's also the danger of over training; putting so much into your training that come fight night you've got nothing left.

A professional kickboxer normally has two or possibly three two hour long fairly intense training sessions a day with the rest of the time spent recovering and relaxing.

What does the training entail?

Very much depends on the sort of training you're doing but on the whole it will involve a cardio-based warmup, technique training, pad work and then possibly sparring at the end. If someone is looking to actually have a fight they'd likely also train their strength (i.e. weight lifting) and cardio (i.e running) outside of the gym.

Is the diet different?

There's not really a specific "kickboxer" diet so most stick to the sort of diet other professional fighters (and many athletes) do; these days that's normally (relatively) low carb, (relatively) high protein with a lot of fish and vegetables. Supplements are commonly used, normally protein powder or recovery drinks.

How would one elevate themselves from merely 'training' to participating in fights (as seen on TV -- I've never watched one)

Getting on TV would be a real challenge; there's simply not much of a market for kickboxing outside of Thailand (and somewhat Australia) right now. In general getting a fight (be it amateur or professional) is mainly a case of going to a gym with a history of fighters, letting the coach know you want a bout and waiting to see what they can arrange. It's not as popular in kickboxing as it is in boxing but there are the odd "white collar" events where amateurs who have days jobs face off and "smokers"; unofficial fights held at a gym.

How would a woman's training differ from that of a man, if at all?

At serious gyms, not at all.

How many styles are there? I have been informed that there are MANY styles!

God... so many. To list the main ones you've got karate (which itself has a whole bunch of different styles but generally disallows punches to the face), savate (French kickboxing), sanshou (Chinese kickboxing with takedowns), "American" kickboxing (much like karate but with punches to the face and without kicks below the waist), "Dutch" kickboxing (which allows kicks below the waist) and Muay Thai (Thai kickboxing which allows some takedowns, elbows, knees and clinchwork).

How would you choose one from another? Are they all similar? If not, how different are they?

Choosing is frequently a matter of what is available to you; serious kickboxing gyms aren't that popular in most of the world so you take what you can get. Arguing about what style is best is a bit of a mess and can get awkward but a rough "hierarchy" generally puts Muay Thai at the top, Dutch kickboxing below that, American Kickboxing below that and the karate based styles near the bottom... although that's very rough and at the top level the fighter matters much more than the style.

Are they similar? Not really. To give a quick example, Kyokushin karate (the main full-contact karate style) tends to look like this with a lot of emphasis on punches to the body and kicks to the head. Muay Thai looks like this with far more emphasis on clinchwork (where they grab each other), elbows, knees and kicks to the body/legs with bouts tending to begin slowly and come from there. "Dutch" kickboxing is probably the most well known in the world at the moment; bouts are at a frenetic pace with punches to the head, high kicks and lowkicks being more widely used. "American" kickboxing isn't really around anymore but when it was it looked like this.

As a beginning, where and how would one start?

Go to gym, say you want to train, train.

Do women receive the same training, or is it different?

At serious gyms it's the same.

I'm not looking for anything easy, gentle or "nice". As I'm sure there are also a plethora of websites out there offering this, do you have suggestions? Perhaps something on Youtube, as well?

For a look at the top level of kickboxing in the world try searching on Youtube for either "K-1" or "Glory"; until the late 2000's K-1 was the biggest kickboxing organisation in the world and now it's Glory.

For a look at the training and lifestyle Kickfighters is a good documentary going behind the scenes at a K-1 tournament, looking at the fighters during the buildup. Rememeber though that these were the best in the world fighting for a lucrative amount of a money.

Do you still do this? If so, what is the most rewarding for you as far as "work-out" goes?

Occasionally. I largely go for a good workout and because I enjoy sparring; sparring is the highlight for me.

Additionally.... do you believe that a story about this could be written to be believable?

No reason it couldn't be.

What I have is this, so far: A slightly overweight woman has a life-altering experience. She would "transform" herself. Which brings me to inquire further --- say this woman is about 75 pounds overweight (I realize that this would be dependent on her regiment or schedule), how long would it take for her, or anyone else for that matter, to notice a difference? Let's say that her ultimate goal is to reach 115-120 pounds, and go from there.

Assuming she cleans her diet up and trains hard most days of the week it would probably only take a month for people to really notice a difference. To lose the full 75lbs? Probably six to nine months of hard work and keeping a good diet.

[Dez]

Thank you, consortium11. You've provided a wealth of information for me and I appreciate it immensely.

[Fenrisulfr]

consortium11 have already made a good post, but here is some more :)

Intensity of training;

The intensity can differ quite a lot between different clubs and individual ambitions. There are people showing up at a gym about once a week, talk more than train while there, and think they are training a martial art. Some clubs allows it, some don't. Competition focused clubs tend to not allow it, either you are focused on the training, or you step out.

Even if it is a competition focused club, it can still be a friendly place and people who are just into it for exercise are more than welcome (and often are the bulk of the members). There are those that shows up once of twice a week, and those who trains several times a week. Some focus on their technique, some pushes themselves.

Mind over matter -- ie the pain threshold, if any

Things like the pain threshold increases, often without one noticing. It might not be until training with newcomers one realize the difference. But then there is also things like learning just to keep ones eyes open. To be able to keep looking at the opponent, while punches are coming once way tend to require some training.

Extremism -- how often, if at all, do people push themselves to the extreme

Rarely to the extreme. Training to hard breaks down more than it builds up (one of the reasons so many catches a cold a few weeks after they start training something, as they start out to hard). But there is a point to push hard at times in martial arts, as another Mind over matter point, we might have to learn not to give up too soon and pushing oneself is a way to realize one can push oneself quite a bit further.

What does the training entail?

The meat of the training tend to be a lot of pad works. Throwing punches and kicks against another student holding pads, usually in a combination given by the teacher. It might also mean hitting a bag, but to not let it bounce around to much it might still be a two-and-two exercise while another student hold the bag. Those just into it for the exercise tend to only do this part.

Then there is sparring. Sparring is still training and tend to be held at perhaps 50% of ones capacity (perhaps because, how do you actually measure?).

Is the diet different?

To get the most out of ones exercise, one need to eat varied and healthy food. But there is no specific diet for martial arts.

How would one elevate themselves from merely 'training' to participating in fights (as seen on TV -- I've never watched one)

Deciding one wants to do it, then train with that focus (knowing one soon will enter a ring with someone intended to beat you apparently can be quite a motivator). To fight at a professional level, one needs to practice a lot.

How would a woman's training differ from that of a man, if at all?

At the two clubs I'm familiar with (both very competition focused), there is close to the same amount of female students as male students. The only difference is that women and men uses separate changing rooms.

How many styles are there? I have been informed that there are MANY styles!

Here in Sweden, we usually just tend to call the Dutch style for kickboxing; but we call it "low kick" when specifying it (and no, that is not a translation, it is English we are using for that part). Most such clubs are doing both kickboxing and Thai boxing (which they see as kickboxing with knees and perhaps elbows, depending on local rules). A Muay Thai club tend to add a bit of the traditional bits as well. There seems to be a bit of difference in how kickboxing clubs and a Muay Thai clubs teaches the boxing parts.

Full contact karate styles, Savate (French kickboxing), Chinese full contact styles, etc is usually refered to their own names and not as kickboxing here, at least not to my knowledge.

Then there it kickboxing inspired boxercise... Those I have seen not only not removes bad habbits, but actually adds a few more. I hope I have just been unlucky, and they're not representative.

How would you choose one from another? Are they all similar? If not, how different are they?

Availability, attitude at the club, what one enjoys. If one is lucky enough to live in a city with a lot of options, it is clearly worth it to shop around. It depends on what one counts as part under the kickboxing umbrella. So if it is as limited as here, then most clubs are fairly similar style wise. If one means "full contact standing style with kicks", then it can be very different.

As a beginning, where and how would one start?

Generally, just find a club and show up at and ask. At least here, people are welcome to sit down and watch a lesson, and usually can practice for free once before start paying. But as mentioned above, the attitude at the club can differ quite a bit. From chest thumping testosterone poisoned, to friendly and relaxed or friendly but dedicated.

Do women receive the same training, or is it different?

As mentioned above, not at all. Depending on if it is a male or female teacher, it might differ at the availability of receiving extra hints from any casual talking in the locker room.

I'm not looking for anything easy, gentle or "nice". As I'm sure there are also a plethora of websites out there offering this, do you have suggestions? Perhaps something on Youtube, as well?

I can't think of any right of the bat. But I can keep my eyes out. I interpret your "I'm not looking for anything easy, gentle or 'nice'" as it should be something that actually teaches how to "fight", pushes oneself both skill wise, physically and pain resistance. Some instructors can be quite humble or even goofy, but still delivers on making sure the students learn.

While doing a quick search I stumbled over this one. I have only watched the first 3 minutes, and it is boxing. But he goes through some good things, and if the rest is in the same style as those first 3 minutes it is worth to look through.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1I_nmhujs2k

Do you still do this? If so, what is the most rewarding for you as far as "work-out" goes?

Rarely. My current focus is on learning how to dance (mainly Salsa, but starting to branch out) and Yoga. But if/when my schedule allows it, I will get back into trining either Bujinkan or Kickboxing.

Additionally.... do you believe that a story about this could be written to be believable?

What I have is this, so far: A slightly overweight woman has a life-altering experience. She would "transform" herself. Which brings me to inquire further --- say this woman is about 75 pounds overweight (I realize that this would be dependent on her regiment or schedule), how long would it take for her, or anyone else for that matter, to notice a difference? Let's say that her ultimate goal is to reach 115-120 pounds, and go from there.

Thanks in advance, as any and all help is greatly appreciated!

With losing 75 pounds overweight, if 120 pounds is a healthy goal, it might mean risk of getting loose skin. Younger people have more elastic skin than older, and quite a bit of other factors are at work. Having a slower weight loss gives the skin more time to adapt. I have heard numbers mentioned that having a weight loss of not greater than 2 pounds a week is preferable.

Second, training will lead to muscle growth. Muscles have a higher density than fat, so training might lead to a disconcerting feeling of wasting time as the scale isn't going down, while percentage of body fat would show a different story. A well trained woman can look quite skinny, until she uses her muscles, and unless having an extreme high testosterone count there is no risk of "bulking up."

For people to notice a difference, she and the people she hangs out with normally, would need more time to notice than someone she seldom meet. It might actually be more of noticing a piece of clothing being to large. Mental self image tend to change slow, and we humans tend to be quite worthless of noticing slow changes.

So say she is changing her life style (not just temporary changing diet) and pushes herself by going to kickboxing 2-3 times a week and start walking/jogging/running say twice a week, she is probably at least 20-30 pounds lighter in 6 month, and moves quite differently. As a book based on the US Marine Corps exercise mentioned, if it is comfortable it isn't exercise. Best effect is outside of the comfortable zone, but not to hard to so it doesn't lead to injuries, and enough rest for the body to build up.

[Dez]

Thank you, Fenrisulfr, as you, too, have provided a wealth of information for me.

[Fenrisulfr]

Thank you, Fenrisulfr, as you, too, have provided a wealth of information for me.

You're welcome :)

Just a few other thoughts that can be useful. Here is some common things beginners tend to do and have to work away:
* Signaling the punch by pulling the shoulder back (it's fine when doing it as part of another move, like punching with the other hand or ducking under a punch).
* Letting the elbow going out to the side while doing a straigth punch.
* Being tense.
* Straightening the arm completely while punching (will damage the elbow).
* Not using the whole body while punching (a good punch starts from the toes).
* Looking at where they are trying to punch (i.e. the mits).
* Closing their eyes when punching or having a punch coming their way.
* Not moving (as if having their feet nailed to the floor).
* Not punching through (the punch should be to a few inches behind the target area).
* Going for speed before learning technique (do it right first, then do it faster and faster, tend to be a better way).