You are either not logged in or not registered with our community. Click here to register.
 
December 06, 2016, 04:27:15 AM

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length

Click here if you are having problems.
Default Wide Screen Beige Lilac Rainbow Black & Blue October Send us your theme!

Hark!  The Herald!
Holiday Issue 2016

Wiki Blogs Dicebot

Author Topic: Stalking and Threats  (Read 1299 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline persephone325Topic starter

  • E's Resident Bucky Barnes/Winter Soldier Addict | Howling's Dagger | Resident Wiccan | Proud Echelon | Winter Widow | Mab's Sister, separated at birth | Princess Persephone, if you prefer
  • Dame
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Location: Romania...Russia...Siberia
  • Gender: Female
  • Ready to comply...
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 1
Stalking and Threats
« on: February 27, 2014, 01:07:03 AM »
I've been watching a lot of the Investigation Discovery channel. Specifically "Stalked: Someone's Watching", and "Obsession: Dark Desires". Shows like those have really got me thinking about anti-stalking and threatening laws.

I feel like this clip from Family Guy sums it up pretty good:


I've never been stalked, but I have been threatened. But when I watch shows like this and the victims talk about how they tried to go to the police many times with piles upon piles of evidence, and the police do nothing, just really pisses me off.

More often, I've noticed that the shows are showing victims that didn't survive the obsessions of their stalkers. Those seem to be the cases when the law fails the victim time and time again.

The point that I'm beginning to see with these shows, is that the police really are useless when it comes to enforcing stalking and threatening laws. (No offense to anyone who works in law enforcement.) Even worse, when I've seen episodes about a man being stalked, they've said that the police have laughed at him when he asked for their help.

Personally, watching these shows makes me a bit angry. What good are the police if they can't do anything until it's basically too late?? I know laws are different in every state, but it just seems that overall the police don't really take stalking and threats seriously.

I don't mean to offend anyone who works in law enforcement, but it just seems like the police have such stupid laws with really stupid loopholes. >.<

Online kylie

  • Bratty Princess of Twisty, Creeping Secrets. Frilly | Fussy | Framed | Dreamy | Glam | Risky | Sporty | Rapt | Tease | Ironic | Shadowed | Struggling | Whispery | Bespelled
  • Liege
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Apr 2005
  • Location: Somewhere in the future.
  • Darkly sweet femme for rich & insidious scenarios.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 1
Re: Stalking and Threats
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2014, 03:34:17 AM »
         I don't know about your particular case, but...  I did a little civil case and charged this guy who kept threatening me with harassment once.  The problems I had were in one part, evidence:  He would approach me when no one was there, or others did not want to speak up and be involved.  But an equally nagging problem was the legal process is long when you're talking about threats of danger that could happen minute by minute, hour by hour. 

          So many systems (legal, financial etc.) order that life happens in 30 day cycles.  You have to file the thing, which takes time and a little money; notice has to be served; people get maybe 30 days (or at least around 14 in emergencies) to respond...  The police who came just recommended I find another place to live.  Eventually I did, though I wasn't going without making a point.  The cops on the beat at least were trying to be honest about it, in a way.  The system isn't worth the grief and trauma or possibly, the real physical danger in the meantime. 

          Proving guilt or even raising suspicion takes time.  And often in the case of bullying and threats, those who know are afraid to speak up.  They may blame the victims too (not "taking care of yourself," "not getting along with people well enough," not tough enough for life here, blah blah it's sick).  There are sometimes laws that allow short-term, emergency intervention to separate people and make things cool down.  But they don't last long enough to set up a solution, if you can even get one from the courts.  It's really freaking hard when you're in the middle of it.

            It's sad, but it's almost enough to make me understand why people are so hot on concealed gun carry laws in some states.  Sometimes having even some little thing to make you feel more secure helps.  (Pepper spray?  A nice heavy little umbrella?  Shrugs.)  But who wants to live thinking about this stuff all the time.  Bleh.  Neighbors and friends nearby who look out, are awesome too but not always simple to come by.

         

Offline Valthazar

  • Writer ͏͏● Educator ● Gamer ● Roleplayer ● Debater ● Tech Connoisseur ● Gym Rat ● Procrastinator ● As they say, "A simple PM may lead to lifelong friendship" ▬▬▬▬
  • Suspended
  • Seducer
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Location: United States
  • Gender: Male
  • Proceed and be bold. Embrace your insecurities.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Stalking and Threats
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2014, 06:51:00 AM »
My guess is that it has to do with the allocation of labor. 

While any threat can potentially be harmful, authorities are faced with the horrible task of attaching priorities to each report/lead.  In an ideal world, with no budget restrictions, every lead could be investigated.  I'd like to think law enforcement is doing the best job any human being can in making these determinations, but even the best make mistakes.

Offline Retribution

  • Lord
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2013
  • Location: First star to the right straight on till morning
  • Gender: Male
  • When I'm good I'm good when I'm bad I'm better
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Stalking and Threats
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2014, 12:03:13 PM »
The presumption of innocence which I am not suggesting we do away with, but it takes time. So the legal process is by it's very nature long. Working in the pseudo legal field [I am a civil enforcement authority] I have learned that enforcement is only effective for those who are inclined to believe the threat for the most part. By the time it has gone on long enough that that there are real ramifications the party in question has gone far beyond anything most people would consider reasonable. So, if one takes this to the case of stalking there are some real serious consequences by the time it has reached this point.

At the end of the day a restraining order, or some other legal document is only a piece of paper. Even if someone is put in jail for threats they can only legally be held so long. And again remember once hit has gotten to this point we are not dealing with a reasonable person. The law is only really effective against someone who respects the law to begin with. By definition a stalker does not.

Get a firearm and learn how to use it through a certified class. Learn self defense from an accredited person of your choice. Pick the type of knowledge that you feel most comfortable with when it comes to your own safety. For the most part the police ae at least ten minutes away and the law is only a piece of paper for those not inclined to obey it.

Offline alextaylor

Re: Stalking and Threats
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2014, 01:56:07 PM »
I've had an issue with stalking and threats before. Brought it to the police.

The police gave me the impression that they were overworked and didn't want to deal with something until it can be clearly proven. It makes sense because crime was so bad you could literally get away with shooting someone you don't like in my city. Heck, where I live, people splash red paint and dead animals at a politician's doorstep and the police still ignore it. The police talked me out of filing a report, but what they did do was bring it up to civil court so that I could settle it with the help of a lawyer. But nobody wants to actually settle something in court.. court fees are really fucking expensive, going up to tens of thousands where I live. I'm not going to fork over 20k for a piece of paper that tells someone not to get near me.

Stalkers are smart too. They're going to threaten you through a call, and avoid doing it via SMS or IMs. Police won't do a thing about call logs unless the call is recorded and proves intent. And apparently, the threat has to be clear. "Any other disgruntled ex would rape you but this is what I want" is not clear, even though it can be a threat. "You won't be safe with an attitude like that" isn't a clear threat. "I'll rape you and kill you" is a clear threat.

I eventually managed to scare off the stalker with the help of a lawyer. Hint: most stalker types are more afraid of lawyers than they are of police. A policeman can be an uneducated hick, a bar council lawyer is almost certainly highly educated. Stalker types tend to stay in the shadow and won't enlist the help of a lawyer or whatever that involves keeping records. Lawyers are smart too and will try to trick their clients into saying something through SMS to cover their asses in case they're caught defending a criminal.

In the end, you want to just scare the stalker away from you. Pepper spray is probably more effective than a gun IMO. With guns you probably hesitate. You don't actually want to kill someone for a threat and explain why you did. The hesitation itself might kill you. Learn some other tricks of intimidation of your own. Stand up against bullying, make it painful for them to pressure you. Surprise them. A police report saying that you brought it to court is worth just as much as a restraining order. Most stalkers are insecure and back off quickly if you fight back. A rare few get turned on if you fight back, but you should probably be able to figure out what kind of stalker you're dealing with.

Offline Oniya

  • StoreHouse of Useless Trivia
  • Oracle
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Location: Just bouncing through. Hi! City of Roses, Pennsylvania
  • Gender: Female
  • One bad Motokifuka. Also cute and FLUFFY!
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: Stalking and Threats
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2014, 10:09:15 PM »
I once escaped a stalker by sheer accident.  She latched onto me in college - had a history of restraining orders against her from other students - and once I graduated, she somehow tracked down my home phone number.  Thing is, I wasn't living there any more.  My mom (not knowing who this person was asking for me) gave her the number where 'I could be reached that evening', which happened to be the site of my weekly tabletop game.  One of the housemates not in the game answered the phone, and the best we can figure is that my stalker thought that she had reached my boyfriend's house.  (Although the future Mr. Oniya lived there, he wasn't the one who answered the phone, and we weren't even dating at the time - nor was I dating the guy who answered the phone.)

Never heard from her again.

Online kylie

  • Bratty Princess of Twisty, Creeping Secrets. Frilly | Fussy | Framed | Dreamy | Glam | Risky | Sporty | Rapt | Tease | Ironic | Shadowed | Struggling | Whispery | Bespelled
  • Liege
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Apr 2005
  • Location: Somewhere in the future.
  • Darkly sweet femme for rich & insidious scenarios.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 1
Re: Stalking and Threats
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2014, 10:50:57 PM »
           Well, it's all pertinent.  I mean I understand the presumption of innocence and yeah, when you're in there it can lead to the sort of situation where only real physical damage is going to prove guilt.  I didn't have great proof for a court, but the guy finally damaged some property in spite and a sympathetic judge gave me that restraining order.  A very symbolic gesture; it wouldn't have mattered much if he was vengeful or clueless enough to keep at it.  There wasn't that much intervening space to negotiate or limit anyone.  But it seemed to make people think a tiny bit, anyway. 

           A lot of talk about blanket responses but...  There are many different kinds of annoyances and threats.  Maybe they aren't always so clear, but some will take notice of the consequences of judicial process, some get enraged, and some hardly seem to care.  There are people who just want to feel like top dog if everyone else will cower away, and there are people who need to do something physically to feel they are top dog at all.  So if you can't just leave at the moment, partly you can get to wondering whatever do they want and which approaches to the problem will they react to, how.     

            Defenses are all nice to the extent they work.  You know, if you can get spray fast enough when stuff is happening, have a place to carry it without fear of it being obvious and getting swiped if you know the person is often nearby, think you can use it without it being used against you...  The list goes on with weapons.  Even having taken a basic class, I wouldn't say the odds are clearly in a woman's favor on all those counts without knowing a particular situation.

             It's a choice and it may suit, or it may feel like an unacceptable risk.  I picked up some spray later in life, when I was in a situation to hear about it calmly and among a friendly community.  Still...  Often in the middle of a case, people find all that to be too much trouble if not an added layer of risk and escalation.  If you have to appear threatening in hopes of deterrence and let them know you're talking about defenses or carrying stuff, then the sort who psyches up precisely to be the "baddest" in the scene may take that as precisely the game they "have" to beat.  Maybe they'll start looking to smash your windows or come along with a nasty-looking weapon of their own (possibly including some 'hardware' or 'household' thing with a deniability factor), or just try to be louder and faster and more annoying around you because of it.  And if so, just imagine people who are already cowed may start bugging you to get out even more, when you may not have a lot of money to be going anywhere fast.  Add to that bullying is likely to target whoever appears most vulnerable, which can mean someone who is new in a place and doesn't have people to look out or help them move on quickly.

              Not to be all hopeless.  Just saying it sure isn't easy.  Getting really solid friends or getting out can actually be quite nice, where it's possible.

Offline alextaylor

Re: Stalking and Threats
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2014, 01:17:46 PM »
Yeah, didn't really mean to give a blanket response, but giving out averages based on my experience. My kinks (especially switch) encourages the creepiest of people to stalk me and play it as a game.

Most creeps are insecure. They're your typical guys, with aggression tuned up a few notches. They come into a conversation armed with a bluff. They'll try to intimidate or pressure you into loving them. They will lie, taunt, trick, cry, then scream and break things to get their way. Very often it's all a bluff, and they're not willing to escalate the matter (but they pretend that they will). This is who restraining orders are designed against, but if you can't get one, you can often scare them away by laying your foot down.

Then there are the people who are outright insane. Something so wrong with them that they're bound to end up in prison. You want to get as far away as possible from them. Change your phone number and address and just stay the fuck away from them. Self-defense in weapons or unarmed is hopeless. For all you know, they could've grown up in high crime neighborhoods where actual violence is common. These people will often do something drastic to someone and end up in jail for years. Just make sure you're not that victim.

There's a guy I know who was beaten up by his father all the time. Brutal beatings, leaving the poor guy covered in blood. One day, he got a blade from somewhere. When his father came to beat him, he pulled out the blade and said that if his father insisted on beating him, one of them would die today. The father backed off and never beat him again.

There are many similar tales, including those in history from actual slaves with no rights. But basically, standing up to bullies works most of the time. The brain is wired to avoid danger and humiliation. Fighting back against a bully is a good way to get them to lay back. Yet fighting back against a gang member is a good way to get gangraped.

You'd have to pay very close attention and profile them. I think a lot of women lose out because they go all out defensive and expect protection. The best defense is a good offense. Stalk the guy back, know everything about your enemy, treat it like a proper war. You'll learn the right action to take - I'm just saying it's not always a restraining order.

Offline Iniquitous

Re: Stalking and Threats
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2014, 01:31:06 PM »
Self-defense in weapons or unarmed is hopeless.


*blinks* What?

I cannot believe you are saying self defense - weapons and unarmed is hopeless. It's one of the first things I always suggest to someone who is in an abusive relationship, someone who is frightened because of another person stalking/harassing them.

Why on earth would you say something that empowers the person is "hopeless"?

Offline alextaylor

Re: Stalking and Threats
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2014, 10:50:21 AM »
"Hopeless" was a bad translation from a word in my native language :P I mean more like "should not be relied upon".

I've learned self-defense from an experienced police officer. The first thing he taught me was that you should never rely on it. If someone asks for you for money, give the money.

If you're walking home late at night and come across a gang of creepy people hanging around there, don't stick your head up to be intimidating or don't keep your head low to look non-threatening. Turn around, walk to a brightly lit area, even sleep in a public area if you definitely have other choice than crossing that dangerous area.

If someone tries to attack you, kidnap you, or rape you, then use the self-defense techniques you've learned. Use it only to neutralize them, not to get revenge or intimidate them. And don't use fancy stuff like judo throws, roundhouse kicks, or groin kicks - gouge the eyes or punch them in the throat. Only use self-defense if you're that desperate. Assume your odds are around 30%, especially if you're a light female and facing against one or more opponents who has anticipated combat.

Most martial arts are scams. They are not applied to serious combat situations. Even MMA rewards things like groundfighting and wrestling, which don't work so well when you're facing someone armed with a knife, who's willing to bite your face off.

Most of us will learn self-defense for a few weekends a month at best. There are people, who out of raw insanity, can take a punch straight to the face and not feel it until hours later. There are criminals who spend years in prison learning how to fight. There are meatheads and bikers who have been fighting since their early teens. There are people who grew up in violent communities since birth and were forced to learn to survive. There's no way someone who's been learning a technique part-time can beat people who have actual experience.

If you're facing an abusive relationship, sorry, but fighting is not the answer. There are better solutions, political, social, or legal. Or just plain moving away even if it costs you a lot. If a guy throws boiling oil in your face, a karate black belt isn't going to save you. If you break a guy's arm in self-defense while he's trying to hit you, be prepared to face an annoying legal battle, even though you did it in self-defense. If you fight back against an experienced fighter, you'll piss them off and encourage very bad things.

There is the possibility that an abusive boyfriend/spouse might be less experienced in fighting. But I wouldn't rely on it. Everyone should fight back against an abuser, but physical defense is an absolute last resort.

Offline Valthazar

  • Writer ͏͏● Educator ● Gamer ● Roleplayer ● Debater ● Tech Connoisseur ● Gym Rat ● Procrastinator ● As they say, "A simple PM may lead to lifelong friendship" ▬▬▬▬
  • Suspended
  • Seducer
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Location: United States
  • Gender: Male
  • Proceed and be bold. Embrace your insecurities.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Stalking and Threats
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2014, 12:25:05 PM »
People need to realize that a firearm isn't simply a device which inflicts physical harm - it also plays into a power dynamic, if it is handled confidently and responsibly.  There's a reason why it is illegal to brandish a weapon, since it conveys a real threat to the other party.  An open-carried firearm is as much a preventive tool, as it is a self-defense tool.

Offline consortium11

Re: Stalking and Threats
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2014, 11:36:29 PM »
Stalking/Harassment is an awkward issue to deal with.

Theoretically you have the issues of making the punishment fit the crime. The nature of harassment/stalking is that it's normally small acts that may not be criminal at all or fall on the very minor side (legally speaking) when viewed individually and even when taken as a whole it's somewhat difficult to justify significant punishments/sanctions. After all, the only truly effective way to ensure someone doesn't communicate with someone else is to lock them up and limit their outside communication; theoretically can we justify locking someone up for a significant amount of time on the basis that they sent some letters, made some phonecalls and stood in some places? Civil or criminal, it's hard to look at sanctions that would actually prevent stalking/harassment and not see them as somewhat draconian.

But even if we can cross that divide then the issue of practicality comes up. It's hard to prove harassment/stalking; in essence the victim has to victimise themselves further by recording their entire life so they will always have evidence to point to if their stalker/harasser shows up. And even with that evidence, will the police take it seriously? And will their involvement actually make the situation worse in the short term, inflaming the stalker/harasser's passions? While a restraining order or call from a lawyer may scare some off, at the end of the day it's a slip of paper and/or a phone call... it offers no physical protection.

It's simply awkward to deal with and without many easy solutions.

On the slightly off-topic discussion about self-defence/martial arts, I've boxed since a child and spent about seven years training MMA, having amateur bouts for both sports (and I use that word deliberately) and doing fairly well for myself. I'm pretty much confident that if you put me in the ring/cage under either ruleset with anyone who hadn't trained, regardless of if they'd been in dozens of streetfights or prison brawls or anything of that type I'd beat them.

But when it comes to self-defence my primary style is simple. Run-the-hell-away-fu.

I think some martial arts and self-defence training, especially those which rely on either point sparring or compliant partners doing spectacular breakfalls after holding their wrist out for someone to grab can actually be dangerous to a practitioner as they give a false sense of confidence and tend to only work in highly proscribed situations. I'm confident that boxing and MMA don't fall into that... but they're still sports. Actual fights, be they street fights or domestic situations have so many outside factors that however much practitioners like to say "it's the closest thing to a real fight", it's not a real fight and it's actually not that close at all.

Run-the-hell-away-fu doesn't just mean physically running at the first sign of danger. It's about situational awareness, about not getting into dangerous situations, be they domestically or outside, to begin with and about quickly extracting yourself if possible. It's about letting your pride take a bit of a kicking from time to time, it's about not rising to every challenge, it's about preferring to lose face then lose teeth and it's about recognising that there are times when one should just walk away... physically and mentally. It also doesn't mean living life in a constant state of fear... it simply means that most simple yet complex of phrases "applying common sense". In essence it comes down to viewing how likely I think I am to be in danger and what I can do to get myself out of that situation without relying on throwing (or taking) punches.

Of course there are situations... thankfully rare and hopefully not that anyone here will ever have to experience... where one does have to fight and running away isn't an option. In that case, if one does genuinely fear for their safety and security and there are no practical options to remove that danger there is only one art I can recommend. Shifty-Judo... because ju-don't know I've got a knife/gun. Weapons, especially modern weapons, are and remain the great leveler in a fight. If I was genuinely having to fight for my life or the life of my loved ones I'd throw all the MMA and boxing training I've ever had out the window in favour of a good knife and the willingness to use it.

But, as I say, those are thankfully incredibly rare situations and not one I've ever found myself in. 

Online kylie

  • Bratty Princess of Twisty, Creeping Secrets. Frilly | Fussy | Framed | Dreamy | Glam | Risky | Sporty | Rapt | Tease | Ironic | Shadowed | Struggling | Whispery | Bespelled
  • Liege
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Apr 2005
  • Location: Somewhere in the future.
  • Darkly sweet femme for rich & insidious scenarios.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 1
Re: Stalking and Threats
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2014, 11:44:26 PM »
People need to realize that a firearm isn't simply a device which inflicts physical harm - it also plays into a power dynamic, if it is handled confidently and responsibly.  There's a reason why it is illegal to brandish a weapon, since it conveys a real threat to the other party.  An open-carried firearm is as much a preventive tool, as it is a self-defense tool.

        Very situational. 

         I wouldn't want to be worrying about whether someone was going to grab it off me in a narrow space, if they are bigger and our paths often cross in that space.

         I would also wonder a little whether someone who has the bully mentality, wouldn't be motivated to get their own carry license and start displaying their own gun around me, even if I had one.  Heck, some people might get their kicks about constantly taunting you to use it (or constantly saying how you wouldn't and they would).  Might become just another level of pissing contest for them.


Offline Iniquitous

Re: Stalking and Threats
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2014, 12:04:52 AM »
        Very situational. 

         I wouldn't want to be worrying about whether someone was going to grab it off me in a narrow space, if they are bigger and our paths often cross in that space.

         I would also wonder a little whether someone who has the bully mentality, wouldn't be motivated to get their own carry license and start displaying their own gun around me, even if I had one.  Heck, some people might get their kicks about constantly taunting you to use it (or constantly saying how you wouldn't and they would).  Might become just another level of pissing contest for them.

Addressing the part I put in bold.

1.  A gun is not to be used as intimidation. In other words, you do not flash a gun just to scare.
2.  If you pull a gun, you better be ready to use it. This goes back to #1 because, as you pointed out, if you are not ready to use it, the other person can take it from you and use it on you.
3.  If you aim a gun, you shoot to kill. There is no shooting to wound for several reasons - you do not wound as badly as you thought, now you have a severely pissed off and wounded attacker going for the gun in your hand. There is also the matter of possibly being sued for shooting and wounding your attacker. (Or shooting, missing your attacker all together and then being arrested for endangering the lives of others.)

Offline Oniya

  • StoreHouse of Useless Trivia
  • Oracle
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Location: Just bouncing through. Hi! City of Roses, Pennsylvania
  • Gender: Female
  • One bad Motokifuka. Also cute and FLUFFY!
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: Stalking and Threats
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2014, 12:12:49 AM »
You are assuming a responsible gun owner.  Abusers can and do flash weapons as intimidation and mental abuse (and unfortunately, some of them are willing to use it.)

Offline Iniquitous

Re: Stalking and Threats
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2014, 12:21:12 AM »
My post was directed towards a person having a gun and using it against a stalker/attacker. Not the stalker/attacker.

Offline Oniya

  • StoreHouse of Useless Trivia
  • Oracle
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Location: Just bouncing through. Hi! City of Roses, Pennsylvania
  • Gender: Female
  • One bad Motokifuka. Also cute and FLUFFY!
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: Stalking and Threats
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2014, 12:27:29 AM »
Ah.  Kylie's post appeared to be referring to the stalker/attacker being the one to get a carry license so that they could taunt and flash the gun.

Offline Iniquitous

Re: Stalking and Threats
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2014, 12:29:50 AM »
She did mention that though I was addressing what I thought was her saying an attacker/stalker taunting her to use a gun if she had one. I might have misunderstood what she was saying though.

Online kylie

  • Bratty Princess of Twisty, Creeping Secrets. Frilly | Fussy | Framed | Dreamy | Glam | Risky | Sporty | Rapt | Tease | Ironic | Shadowed | Struggling | Whispery | Bespelled
  • Liege
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Apr 2005
  • Location: Somewhere in the future.
  • Darkly sweet femme for rich & insidious scenarios.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 1
Re: Stalking and Threats
« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2014, 05:33:27 AM »
        All of the above, if I'm not confused by what people are saying.

        If you're being harassed and you get a gun, others may try to taunt you with things like "You won't use that."  Or, "You know how easily I could take that away from you and use it on you?"  Or they may say similar things to others in earshot about you. 

        I'm thinking more...  The problem is if you are openly carrying (or making it known that you carry) a weapon as a deterrent, then can it be secured so that it is visible but can't be taken away?  That is, in cases where the person you want to deter will have some casual reason to be physically nearby.

        Otherwise I'm not sure exactly what was being recommended...  Go out and shoot them because they have threatened you in the past?  I doubt that would even fly in most of the Southern US, or in those states where it's maybe okay to shoot a suspected burglar or say, present source of danger ("stand your ground" laws).

         I can see people seriously considering carrying guns as a deterrent (more openly) or perhaps as a last-ditch defense (more concealed).  But then these are some possible problems that can arise, particularly with the open deterrent situation.  Even in the draw under pressure situation and even if it were concealed, does one know how to get the gun out in a position where it will not easily be seized...  Or are the situations where one is most likely to draw and be able to prove a physical threat in court, also those where the weapon is likely to be grabbed away and perhaps turned on its owner?  Those are all things to think about, either way.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2014, 05:34:53 AM by kylie »

Offline Retribution

  • Lord
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2013
  • Location: First star to the right straight on till morning
  • Gender: Male
  • When I'm good I'm good when I'm bad I'm better
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Stalking and Threats
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2014, 07:12:00 AM »
Since I seem to have started a whole other debate with my comments.

Of course run away like Monty Python is and should always be the first line of defense. Unfortunately there are just certain times one has no place to run.

Most people due to stature, nature, what have you are not suited for self defense. I simply tossed out self defense as a means of having -something- for those being stalked and who are afraid of firearms. As for myself as a long time wrestler and coach who has actually instructed some grappling to MMA guys I am pretty confident of my abilities man to man and hand to hand. But I have also spent a lifetime studying the science a few weeks in a gym is not that, but it is something if you are being stalked and have nothing.

When it comes to firearms I am also a life long gun owner and advocate. A gun is indeed a deterrent to those who would do one harm. Stalkers have to factor in the possibility of dying for their actions when a gun is involved and that is motivational. As for flashing, one should never pull a firearm unless they plan on using it. If anyone ever pushes me far enough I feel the need to pull my gun then the first responders better bring body bags because there are going to be some DOAs when they get there. As for security of the weapon I use a small of the back holster with a strap that holds it in.  Hard to get the firearm if you do not know the strap or where the snap for it is. Also I can be wearing shorts and a tee and no one even knows it is there unless I tell them. Which is another pertinent point in a confrontation if you are armed let the other party know you are armed, but as they say do not pull Sam Colt unless you plan on using it.

Offline Valthazar

  • Writer ͏͏● Educator ● Gamer ● Roleplayer ● Debater ● Tech Connoisseur ● Gym Rat ● Procrastinator ● As they say, "A simple PM may lead to lifelong friendship" ▬▬▬▬
  • Suspended
  • Seducer
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Location: United States
  • Gender: Male
  • Proceed and be bold. Embrace your insecurities.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Stalking and Threats
« Reply #20 on: March 29, 2014, 11:49:09 PM »
Even in the draw under pressure situation and even if it were concealed, does one know how to get the gun out in a position where it will not easily be seized...  Or are the situations where one is most likely to draw and be able to prove a physical threat in court, also those where the weapon is likely to be grabbed away and perhaps turned on its owner?  Those are all things to think about, either way.

In a situation where your life is in danger, you should always draw and aim the gun securely held.  Timidly or half-heartedly drawing it is a recipe for things going bad.  After that person realizes they have triggered your self-defense reaction, if they make any sudden, aggressive movements towards you, you should not hesitate to shoot.  My point is that if you do things correctly, they should not even have the opportunity to grab ahold of the gun - and that comes down to being trained on its proper use.

If you're uncomfortable carrying a gun, you should at least store a firearm in your home, and train yourself on using it.  Especially for women, it's one of the best defenses there is when it comes to intruders and stalkers.

Online kylie

  • Bratty Princess of Twisty, Creeping Secrets. Frilly | Fussy | Framed | Dreamy | Glam | Risky | Sporty | Rapt | Tease | Ironic | Shadowed | Struggling | Whispery | Bespelled
  • Liege
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Apr 2005
  • Location: Somewhere in the future.
  • Darkly sweet femme for rich & insidious scenarios.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 1
Re: Stalking and Threats
« Reply #21 on: March 30, 2014, 04:37:12 AM »
In a situation where your life is in danger, you should always draw and aim the gun securely held.  Timidly or half-heartedly drawing it is a recipe for things going bad.  After that person realizes they have triggered your self-defense reaction, if they make any sudden, aggressive movements towards you, you should not hesitate to shoot.  My point is that if you do things correctly, they should not even have the opportunity to grab ahold of the gun - and that comes down to being trained on its proper use.
         Ahh.  People talking about different things.  There are threats and then there are threats.  I suppose there are some situations where one is pretty sure they are in a life-threatening or major injury sort of situation...  Although proving that may be another question again, I dunno. 

          I was actually thinking more of situations where people go on with stalking or harassment for some time.  Often it's someone more or less familiar who has some reason to be in the same places you are.  These are not so much a legally clear-cut matter of they will hit you or will seriously injure as the case may be, but they will do everything they can to make you think they might.  So it's not so obvious when you would or would not have legal protection for drawing down on them.  And it's not so obvious whether they actually will crack this time, or is it just another giant "look at me, rawr" tantrum where they go on blocking your way and smashing everything around but not quite you -- or just another rant about how easily they could snap your neck.  That was more the sort of situation I was thinking of. 

         Sure, if they have a knife or gun at your head and you still have time to pull one in response -- by all means, go for it.  But if you're in a state where people can all carry openly, I wonder how many of the bullies will get a weapon too and then be happy to lead you straight into that contest, on their own terms.  Or what they think will work to frighten or even harm and make it look like you contributed to the fight, any of which is scary enough already.

          I didn't mean for it to be an "all or nothing" argument about guns, myself.  I suppose there must be some situations where they could be relatively useful if people are trained and read up on the laws.  Perhaps people living in very isolated places who do not normally have their adversary nearby, and know who they are and when they're moving in too close and if they are clearly dangerous. 

          But I also think there are lots of other situations where it's not so clear-cut and while you might or might not protect yourself with a gun...  In those other situations, you might end up in jail for it, or you might often be in a position where it would be a wrestling match or just another excuse for more psychological trauma.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2014, 04:39:23 AM by kylie »

Offline Retribution

  • Lord
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2013
  • Location: First star to the right straight on till morning
  • Gender: Male
  • When I'm good I'm good when I'm bad I'm better
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Stalking and Threats
« Reply #22 on: March 30, 2014, 08:22:39 AM »
The point is it is hard to stop stalking because of legal reasons as everyone here seems to understand. A restraining order is at the end of the day just a piece of paper. If someone persists in stalking someone I am of the opinion that at some point the behavior will become dangerous, get real, however you wish to describe it. I firmly believe, and have no problem telling my teen age daughter, be able to protect yourself.

Besides, most stalkers are bullies. Bullies are generally cowards, cowards have a tendency to look for other people to screw with when one shows that they are a predator and not prey. I have real life experience to back this outlook that I have up, but I will spare all of you the war stories.

Offline Septembr

Re: Stalking and Threats
« Reply #23 on: March 30, 2014, 01:59:14 PM »
Yep; stalkers are ridiculous low life people....my ex is one of them, but I also get stalked by one of my female friends to the point where I now wish to put a For Sale sign on my front lawn because the insecure b-atch just bought a home right around the corner from me! It's horrible! She's like a plague! NY has tougher stalking laws now, but she isn't posing a "physical threat" so I can't have her arrested...she just makes herself known and available by always "happening to be passing by" my house etc....crazy!!!

Offline BlueMaiden88

Re: Stalking and Threats
« Reply #24 on: June 12, 2014, 08:19:07 PM »
I have never been stalked.  But I have friends who were stalked.  A friend of mine had her stalker constantly popping up at her job.  I visited her at work once near the time her shift ends because she said the guy was getting more aggressive.  I won't admit to anything, but I gave him a reason to leave her alone, for good.
I always recommend a woman do the following:
Be alert; Watch their behavior.  If you are observant you can tell before they even approach you.
Observe your surroundings, make sure you take in what sorts of obstacles, tools, and escape paths are open to you, as well as potential weapons if it comes to violence.
Carry protection: It can be mace or a small, easily concealed knife...or a coffee mug
Know your strengths/weaknesses.  You might have poor upper body strength, but can you kick like a mule?
Exercise.
DO NOT PULL YOUR PUNCHES!!!  If someone attacks you, you can't afford to think, fight 'like a girl'.  You have to fight like an animal with nothing to lose.   Bite, scratch, kick, scream, curse.  If it doesn't draw attention, you might be able to scare them off yourself.
Even then, you can be overpowered.  However, there is a chance that you have committed enough about them to memory or done enough damage to their person  that the police can find them just by their medical records at the ER. 
DO NOT EXPECT TO BE "SAVED".  Save your damn self.

I HAVE been threatened before.  Some people, no matter how polite you are, won't take no for an answer.  Those are the ones who threaten, follow you, and will try to hurt you.  I was cornered ONCE.  It was by chance that me screaming and clawing at this guy made enough noise to draw someone to help.  Since then, I have had to defend myself a couple of times.  There are days when no one is there to be intimidating on your behalf.   But, since I live in a bad neighborhood, I've learned that if you are loud and fight like you really, truly intend to kill them before they hurt you, they go away because YOU will scare THEM.