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Author Topic: Game of Thrones (custom ruled Pathfinder)  (Read 3783 times)

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Offline RubySlippers

Re: Game of Thrones (custom ruled Pathfinder)
« Reply #75 on: January 09, 2014, 09:53:27 AM »
I thought magic was RARE we seem magic heavy, at least make magic limited like expensive to do or take more time to use.

Offline kckolbe

Re: Game of Thrones (custom ruled Pathfinder)
« Reply #76 on: January 09, 2014, 09:55:28 AM »
I wonder if the limit on spell levels should be handled differently.  Maybe instead of just a total cap of 4th level spells, maybe something along the lines of 1 spell level per 4 character levels, or caster level cannot exceed character level/2.  Thoughts?

Offline Zaer DarkwailTopic starter

Re: Game of Thrones (custom ruled Pathfinder)
« Reply #77 on: January 09, 2014, 09:59:29 AM »
I point out the max spell level cap is at 4th level. Magic is rare and I at most approve only 1 magic user per 5 players in the game. Overall though magic does exist in Westeros but there are not that many true magic practitioners. In Essos example there are rumors of shadowy mages in other side of the contingent which can do traditional Valyrian magic (and Valyria was a high magic culture).

Red Priests are those 'rare' true magic practitioners in Westeros. But so are followers of Old Ways (druids mostly comes from this tradition and so does witches). I already ruled that casting a healing spell takes a 1 minute so it cannot be used 'in combat' healing but more as healing surge after combat is over. Also in wound rules the healing spells heals wound equal to it's level, so with 4th level cap it means max 4pts wound cured (while vitality is cured rapidly).

Anyways I am open to rules how cap is handled but idea is also the person can surpass that cap in extraordinary circumstances.

Offline kckolbe

Re: Game of Thrones (custom ruled Pathfinder)
« Reply #78 on: January 09, 2014, 10:02:59 AM »
I just want to avoid having PCs hit the level cap at level 7, then just taking non magic levels after that.  I mean, for a 5th level character in Westeros, a fireball is a big deal.  EVERY nation would do anything to have you on their side.  A fighter of twice that level would be cannon fodder.

Offline RubySlippers

Re: Game of Thrones (custom ruled Pathfinder)
« Reply #79 on: January 09, 2014, 10:10:20 AM »
I just don't want to be useless, as a non-magical healer.

Offline chaoslord29

Re: Game of Thrones (custom ruled Pathfinder)
« Reply #80 on: January 09, 2014, 10:22:42 AM »
What if we used the E6 variant rules? Has that been put on the table yet?

Offline kckolbe

Re: Game of Thrones (custom ruled Pathfinder)
« Reply #81 on: January 09, 2014, 10:25:31 AM »
Not familiar with those

Offline RubySlippers

Re: Game of Thrones (custom ruled Pathfinder)
« Reply #82 on: January 09, 2014, 10:33:59 AM »
I have an idea on any critical hit the person gets an injury that requires medical treatment to heal like a bad hit breaks the shield arm which must be set first. So sometimes magical healing won't cut it alone.

Offline chaoslord29

Re: Game of Thrones (custom ruled Pathfinder)
« Reply #83 on: January 09, 2014, 10:35:20 AM »
The idea is that the game more or less 'caps' at level 6, keeping the PCs on this side of the more superhuman abilities and feats that come with mid-high level play. There are other changes too of course to accomodate the fact that play is now very much reduced in scale, and I know for a fact it works well with a few of the other alternate rules we already have in place. I believe there's expanded class and archetype options too (or at least, there were on the site where I last played an E6 game).

Let me shop around the GM's corner and see what I can dig up by way of a better summary/description/SRD.

Offline Rhaegar14

Re: Game of Thrones (custom ruled Pathfinder)
« Reply #84 on: January 09, 2014, 10:49:42 AM »
The idea is that the game more or less 'caps' at level 6, keeping the PCs on this side of the more superhuman abilities and feats that come with mid-high level play. There are other changes too of course to accomodate the fact that play is now very much reduced in scale, and I know for a fact it works well with a few of the other alternate rules we already have in place. I believe there's expanded class and archetype options too (or at least, there were on the site where I last played an E6 game).

Let me shop around the GM's corner and see what I can dig up by way of a better summary/description/SRD.

I second this motion. A level cap of six generally puts characters just slightly beyond the limits of human achievement. E6 is extremely appropriate for a GoT game.

Offline kckolbe

Re: Game of Thrones (custom ruled Pathfinder)
« Reply #85 on: January 09, 2014, 10:52:06 AM »
While a level cap of 6 is a fine idea, it doesn't address the magic issue, as a level 5 character could still do amazing things.  Balance-wise, there is no issue with it, but setting wise it is a problem.  I think the only fair way is probably to make casters cross class with non magic classes and let them have two favored classes.

Offline chaoslord29

Re: Game of Thrones (custom ruled Pathfinder)
« Reply #86 on: January 09, 2014, 11:02:54 AM »
Not trying to hijack the game from the GM, but I will voice my support for an E6 game as well, and thanks to a friend of mine here on Elliquiy, provide the freely available PDF rules for running E6 games.

Ta-DA!: http://esix.pbworks.com/f/E6v041.pdf
Rules for raising the stakes and more dramatic play (might be relevant): http://esix.pbworks.com/f/RaisingtheStakes.pdf

And even less official supplemental material including new and alternate classes (can't speak to them balance and play-wise; might be too ambitious to include them): http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13624524

Offline Rhaegar14

Re: Game of Thrones (custom ruled Pathfinder)
« Reply #87 on: January 09, 2014, 11:11:14 AM »
While a level cap of 6 is a fine idea, it doesn't address the magic issue, as a level 5 character could still do amazing things.  Balance-wise, there is no issue with it, but setting wise it is a problem.  I think the only fair way is probably to make casters cross class with non magic classes and let them have two favored classes.

I do also tend to agree with this statement. With the exception of complicated and costly rituals (which, frankly, should be handled differently), nobody in Game of Thrones is busting out a spell effect of higher than first or second level.

Offline chaoslord29

Re: Game of Thrones (custom ruled Pathfinder)
« Reply #88 on: January 09, 2014, 11:21:10 AM »
I do also tend to agree with this statement. With the exception of complicated and costly rituals (which, frankly, should be handled differently), nobody in Game of Thrones is busting out a spell effect of higher than first or second level.
Having read through all the books, and without any spoilers, it's not so much about spell-levels as the effects themselves. While some more powerful magics have come into play with certain characters, I don't think there's anyone who could use magic as an actual attack effect. Even a cantrip like Acid Splash, Ray of Frost, or Mage Hand would be beyond what anyone in Westeros or Essos could muster.

Magic in the series is above all subtle, it's effects are almost universally intangible, with one very big exception (spoilers).

Offline Sahariel

Re: Game of Thrones (custom ruled Pathfinder)
« Reply #89 on: January 09, 2014, 11:22:57 AM »
I do also tend to agree with this statement. With the exception of complicated and costly rituals (which, frankly, should be handled differently), nobody in Game of Thrones is busting out a spell effect of higher than first or second level.

Well, at one point Thoros pulls off something evocative of Breath of Life but that ought to fall into the complicated rituals category.

The remainder of spell affects, i.e. Thoros's Wildfire Sword could be emulated with low level spells.



« Last Edit: January 17, 2014, 01:02:43 AM by Sahariel »

Offline Sahariel

Re: Game of Thrones (custom ruled Pathfinder)
« Reply #90 on: January 09, 2014, 11:30:14 AM »
Having read through all the books, and without any spoilers, it's not so much about spell-levels as the effects themselves. While some more powerful magics have come into play with certain characters, I don't think there's anyone who could use magic as an actual attack effect. Even a cantrip like Acid Splash, Ray of Frost, or Mage Hand would be beyond what anyone in Westeros or Essos could muster.

Magic in the series is above all subtle, it's effects are almost universally intangible, with one very big exception (spoilers).


Well said,

Magicians are also extremely rare:
Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
There are Red Priests, Shadowbinders, the Warlocks of Qarth--other than that there's Bloodraven from the novellas and one of the Archmaesters is, allegedly, a Mage.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2014, 11:45:22 AM by Sahariel »

Offline Rhaegar14

Re: Game of Thrones (custom ruled Pathfinder)
« Reply #91 on: January 09, 2014, 11:38:41 AM »

Magic in the series is above all subtle, it's effects are almost universally intangible, with one very big exception (spoilers).

While I agree with this statement, I think that that part of it is better handled with careful spell selection subject to DM approval than any hard rules.

Offline chaoslord29

Re: Game of Thrones (custom ruled Pathfinder)
« Reply #92 on: January 09, 2014, 11:40:27 AM »

Well said,

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
Magicians are also extremely rare: There are Red Priests, Shadowbinders, the Warlocks of Qarth--other than that there's Bloodraven from the novellas and one of the Archmaesters is, allegedly, a Mage.

Dude. Be cool with the spoilers there.

The point remains that rather than ruling out spell levels, I would suggest ruling out schools or types of spell instead. Specifically: Evocation, Conjuration (minus the healing subschool), select Abjuration spells, most of the Transmutation school; just about anything with a physically tangible effect.

Offline Sahariel

Re: Game of Thrones (custom ruled Pathfinder)
« Reply #93 on: January 09, 2014, 11:51:56 AM »
Dude. Be cool with the spoilers there.

The point remains that rather than ruling out spell levels, I would suggest ruling out schools or types of spell instead. Specifically: Evocation, Conjuration (minus the healing subschool), select Abjuration spells, most of the Transmutation school; just about anything with a physically tangible effect.

My bad, boxed the spoilers

I second the idea of ruling out schools. Cherry picking every spell sounds really laborious.

Offline Zaer DarkwailTopic starter

Re: Game of Thrones (custom ruled Pathfinder)
« Reply #94 on: January 09, 2014, 12:01:20 PM »
What about energy manipulation like conjuring ladders made from fire and climb them? It's because of that description I decided allow fireballs or such events as they are rare extreme manifestation of magic. We speak of setting which do have dragons which breath fire :P.

Anyways, if folks like the E6 variant to be used I go with it. But otherwise idea was with level cap was to lock spells until person goes through event which increases their magic powers (a extraordinary event). Also higher CL can be useful for some spells even if you know only low level ones and you can use higher level spell slots cast lower level spells.

If overall flashy magic is problem we can go with picking out spells and then pick subtle ones, as I ruled already that mostly spontaneous casters are only allowed so their casting list is limited as it is.

Offline kckolbe

Re: Game of Thrones (custom ruled Pathfinder)
« Reply #95 on: January 09, 2014, 12:03:24 PM »
I've not done the E6 thing before and am comfortable without it.  I didn't think that was really an issue. 

Offline chaoslord29

Re: Game of Thrones (custom ruled Pathfinder)
« Reply #96 on: January 09, 2014, 12:19:48 PM »
What about energy manipulation like conjuring ladders made from fire and climb them? It's because of that description I decided allow fireballs or such events as they are rare extreme manifestation of magic. We speak of setting which do have dragons which breath fire :P.

Anyways, if folks like the E6 variant to be used I go with it. But otherwise idea was with level cap was to lock spells until person goes through event which increases their magic powers (a extraordinary event). Also higher CL can be useful for some spells even if you know only low level ones and you can use higher level spell slots cast lower level spells.

If overall flashy magic is problem we can go with picking out spells and then pick subtle ones, as I ruled already that mostly spontaneous casters are only allowed so their casting list is limited as it is.
If you're drawing that bit about elemental control from the wiki, I think they're taking some major liberties in describing the 'magic'. At no point does a priest of R'hllor conjure fire as a weapon to be used against someone else; Thoros pours a substance called Wildfire onto his sword in order to make it burn (consuming it in the process), and wildfire is created through largely mundane means (basically it's greek fire or napalm, with a touch of magic used to fill in the gaps left by their knowledge of science and chemistry); The aforementioned ladder of fire is ambivalent as an example of what could very well be stage-magic or a creative use of prestidigitation and illusion.

The dragons are the real exception to the rule, but they are the exception that proves the rule in that they are literally creatures of magic ("Fire made flesh").

Offline kckolbe

Re: Game of Thrones (custom ruled Pathfinder)
« Reply #97 on: January 09, 2014, 12:22:37 PM »
Chaoslord, there were other references to magical fire in the books, though some were just rumor.  I think a magical ladder would be a marvel, but still kinda accepted by a Red Priest.

Offline chaoslord29

Re: Game of Thrones (custom ruled Pathfinder)
« Reply #98 on: January 09, 2014, 01:23:32 PM »
Chaoslord, there were other references to magical fire in the books, though some were just rumor.  I think a magical ladder would be a marvel, but still kinda accepted by a Red Priest.
I've read the books and I think you should PM me what you're referring to specifically cause I can't think of one example where someone actually uses a 'spell' to directly cause harm to another person. Just about every example of 'practical' magic I can think of leaves the door open as to whether it's anything more than cleverly crafted illusions.

Offline Rhaegar14

Re: Game of Thrones (custom ruled Pathfinder)
« Reply #99 on: January 09, 2014, 01:55:53 PM »
Dude. Be cool with the spoilers there.

The point remains that rather than ruling out spell levels, I would suggest ruling out schools or types of spell instead. Specifically: Evocation, Conjuration (minus the healing subschool), select Abjuration spells, most of the Transmutation school; just about anything with a physically tangible effect.

Sun Metal (Transmutation) and Divine Favor (Evocation). These are both perfectly reasonable spells for a Red Priest to be casting that blanket bans on these two schools would eliminate.

Thoros uses wildfire before he joins up with the Brotherhood Without Banners. My memory may be a little hazy (it's been a while), but I'm pretty sure before the trial by combat with you-know-who Beric just offers a prayer to R'hllor and his sword bursts into flames.

I've read the books and I think you should PM me what you're referring to specifically cause I can't think of one example where someone actually uses a 'spell' to directly cause harm to another person. Just about every example of 'practical' magic I can think of leaves the door open as to whether it's anything more than cleverly crafted illusions.

While that's true, in a setting without Dispel Magic and Detect Magic (which I believe have absolutely NO place in a GoT game), you can really leave what exactly magic entails as pretty ambiguous.