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Author Topic: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.  (Read 35507 times)

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Offline Wajin

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #350 on: April 26, 2015, 01:23:44 PM »
I am being serious. People here do not take kindly to someone pointing loopholes in the faith.

My saving grace is that I am not being obnoxious about it. Nor am I demanding that people believe or followwhat I say. But that still doesn't protect me.

I hope you'll be okay Formless

Online Dashenka

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #351 on: April 26, 2015, 01:44:18 PM »
If all should go south Formless, I got another spot in the garage your car (not sure if it's long enough) and a bedroom or two for you :P

Offline FormlessTopic starter

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #352 on: April 26, 2015, 02:57:29 PM »
I hope you'll be okay Formless

Thank you , Dane. :-)

If all should go south Formless, I got another spot in the garage your car (not sure if it's long enough) and a bedroom or two for you :P

Well as long as there's a spot for the car! ;D

Thank you , Dashenka. I appreciate it! :-)

Online Dashenka

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #353 on: April 26, 2015, 03:00:24 PM »
Hehe you can't park a car like yours on the streets here.... We'll make a spot free for it :D

Offline kylie

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Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #354 on: April 27, 2015, 06:04:45 AM »
I'm debating on turning off IP access, and probably should, even.

        Sorry, what does that do exactly?  Is this just another way of stopping others from reading where one browses?  Would it affect I dunno, say, those of us using VPN?

/tangential to thread but it arose here and I don't mean to drag it out very long.

Offline Vekseid

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #355 on: April 27, 2015, 11:51:13 AM »
        Sorry, what does that do exactly?  Is this just another way of stopping others from reading where one browses?  Would it affect I dunno, say, those of us using VPN?

/tangential to thread but it arose here and I don't mean to drag it out very long.

Right now, if you hardcode Elliquiy's IP address in your hosts file, there is no way any snooper would be able to learn what site you were visiting - unless they just visited the ip address, which still shows E.

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Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #356 on: April 29, 2015, 07:52:18 PM »
I am being serious. People here do not take kindly to someone pointing loopholes in the faith.

My saving grace is that I am not being obnoxious about it. Nor am I demanding that people believe or followwhat I say. But that still doesn't protect me.

I think you should be cautious, Formless. As much as you reasonably can be. Forums are not infallible and neither is the internet. If you would be genuinely at risk saying something aloud, it is reason to be cautious writing it. I don't believe voices should be silenced, but there are risks worth taking and risks not. Those are just my thoughts, but I would hate something to happen to my future writing partner. Either way I'm sure sure you will make the choice you feel is most right, but I just wanted to let you know my thoughts on it.


Offline Skynet

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #357 on: May 06, 2015, 01:13:16 AM »
I am not in a position to advise matters on safety, but I hope that things work out.

If it's alright, I do have some questions still.

Jesus' Role and Nature: To my knowledge Jesus is also a beloved figure in Islam, but I do not know how major his role is in the faith.  What I did notice was that the Christian claim that Jesus is the son of God is not believed among the Muslims, who view Jesus instead as a prophet who never said such a thing.

As Jesus' divine origins is probably one of the biggest and most celebrated aspects of Christianity, how are Jesus' accomplishments and role as one of God's prophets interpreted and viewed within Islam?

Offline FormlessTopic starter

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #358 on: May 06, 2015, 10:00:50 AM »
I think you should be cautious, Formless. As much as you reasonably can be. Forums are not infallible and neither is the internet. If you would be genuinely at risk saying something aloud, it is reason to be cautious writing it. I don't believe voices should be silenced, but there are risks worth taking and risks not. Those are just my thoughts, but I would hate something to happen to my future writing partner. Either way I'm sure sure you will make the choice you feel is most right, but I just wanted to let you know my thoughts on it.

Thank you for your kind words , Lady Amber. :-)



Jesus' Role and Nature: To my knowledge Jesus is also a beloved figure in Islam, but I do not know how major his role is in the faith.  What I did notice was that the Christian claim that Jesus is the son of God is not believed among the Muslims, who view Jesus instead as a prophet who never said such a thing.

As Jesus' divine origins is probably one of the biggest and most celebrated aspects of Christianity, how are Jesus' accomplishments and role as one of God's prophets interpreted and viewed within Islam?

Jesus , just like any other prophet , is a respected and loved figure in the Islamic faith. Muslims believe that Jesus carried God's message during his days. Jesus himself does not have any direct impact on the Islamic faith. He is simply from a different holy religion brought down by god in the past.

Offline Skynet

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #359 on: May 08, 2015, 04:12:08 PM »
It's common for prophets in the Abrahamic religions to call upon God's aid to accomplish miracles clearly not the work of men or nature.  Moses parting the Red Sea, Jesus curing the sick with but a touch, etc.

Has the Quran described Muhammad performing any similar actions?

Offline FormlessTopic starter

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #360 on: May 08, 2015, 05:53:32 PM »
There is only one miraculous event that was actually mentioned in the Qur'an.

The Moon when it was full one night was split in half. Of course the verses that mentioned it only stated that it was split.

{The Hour has come near, and the moon has split [in two]} Verse 1 , Sura 54.

The story behind it was how Quraish contested Mohammad's prophecy and how he carried no proof. That he was a wizard meant to bring chaos and mayhem among their peaceful lives. So at night when the Moon will be full , everyone gathered as Mohammad said that a miracle will be upon them. And so everyone who attended the gathering that night witnessed the Moon splitting into two halves.

Offline Skynet

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #361 on: May 09, 2015, 12:58:21 PM »
I recall reading that many Muslims regard loans and insurance as usury or a form of gambling.  This was true with Christians as well, but many Western Christians today don't have reservations against it anymore.  I also heard that the tenet of almsgiving in Islam was a viable economic alternative for helping community projects, thus eliminating the need for these functions in the times of the Caliphate and Ottomans.  To what extent is this true?

Are loans and insurance programs still seen as a negative by many Muslims?  For countries and communities where Muslims do not partake in this, what do they do instead for times when natural disasters, medical emergencies, etc, come up and expenses are needed to recover?

Offline FormlessTopic starter

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #362 on: May 09, 2015, 08:05:43 PM »
Let's start with insurance first.

an arrangement by which a company or the state undertakes to provide a guarantee of compensation for specified loss, damage, illness, or death in return for payment of a specified premium.

This is the definition of insurance as everyone knows. This concept wasn't even known during the days of Mohammad. However , when it was introduced to the modern Muslims , Imams and Sheiks said it was forbidden because of this :

When you pay said specified premium , and the duration of the contract has ended , you do not get your paid amount back , if nothing  has occurred. To them that would be paying money where it doesn't belong. That it is a form of loan with interest. That you pay an amount of money for no true benefit.

However , fifteen years ago , in Saudi Arabia , Insurance on cars was enforced due to the massive loses caused by car accidents. The Imams were forced to draw back their initial judgment , because car insurance provided a safe net in case someone fell victim for a car accident that they did not cause themselves.

And since then , all forms of insurance started to become the ' norm '. Is it forbidden? Nothing in the Qur'an directly specify that. But its a modern concept to Muslims so they relied on their Imams and Sheiks. But as you see , in the end the benefit of the society was chosen over a ' Modern Islamic rule '.

Now as for loans. Loans with interest are forbidden in Islam , period. But the Banks here practice many ways to go around that. For example, instead of loaning you money directly , they loan you cars that you can sell. And they provide the buyer , however , the buyer will buy the cars for a lesser price than the one you loaned it from the bank. So you still pay an interest , it was simply masked in someway to make it look ' legitimate'.

I hope this answers the questions?

Offline Skynet

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #363 on: May 16, 2015, 02:31:45 PM »
Of all the haram meats out there, how did pork become the most well-known and iconic example?

Edit: Another question came to my mind.  How does the practice of the Salat differ for Muslims who are mute, possibly long-term or permanently so?
« Last Edit: May 16, 2015, 02:40:18 PM by Skynet »

Offline FormlessTopic starter

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #364 on: May 16, 2015, 05:02:11 PM »
I think pork became so iconic , because its the same as the Jewish belief? It is a shared taboo between the faith I guess.

Though here's a fun fact. Its ok to eat Camel meat. But when you do , you have to cleanse yourself before praying or reading the Qur'an. The reason behind this is still a mystery. ( Aside from the rubbish you hear or read anywhere else. )

As for Mutes. They can pray just like everyone else. The only difference is that they cannot lead a group of Muslims in a Salat that requires audible reciting.

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Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #365 on: May 16, 2015, 05:39:56 PM »
Another fun fact - pork is particularly hazardous in a non-modern, nomadic society (such as was found in many Middle Eastern tribes in Biblical times), due to the various parasites that can be passed on to humans following inadequate cooking or improper storage, such as trichinosis.  Yet another reason that seemingly strange prohibitions would have made perfect sense at the time they were enacted.

Offline Skynet

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #366 on: May 20, 2015, 07:17:02 PM »
Not specific to religious doctrine exactly, but involves Islam.

Last year the Ms. Marvel superhero character underwent a character redevelopment/revival.  What was notable to many was that the protagonist, Kamala Khan, was a Muslim teenager, parents of Pakistani immigrants living in a New Jersey metropolis.

It was considered very groundbreaking and sold very well.  I was wondering if any of E's Muslims had any thoughts on the character overall.  I'm considering checking it out simply because a lot of folk are talking about it, but as someone who hasn't really kept up with superhero comics as of late I don't really have much insight into this.

Offline FormlessTopic starter

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #367 on: May 21, 2015, 02:19:12 PM »
I honestly cannot comment. I wasn't aware that Marvel developed such a character. And to be more honest , I am not well versed in Marvel as a whole. ::)

Surely someone else can provide a better feedback.

Offline Skynet

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #368 on: May 25, 2015, 02:11:34 AM »
The Zakat and Almsgiving: A minimum yearly tithe of 2.5% of one's earnings to charitable causes seems a popular standard for many Muslims across the world.  However, the Wikipedia entry mentions that the Qu'ran does not give a specific amount.  If this is not an inaccuracy on Wikipedia's part, how did this number come to be a near-universal standard?

Offline Cassandra LeMay

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #369 on: May 25, 2015, 04:23:22 AM »
The book Wikipedia quotes as the source for the 2.5% figure  mentions this (p.64f):

Quote
Islam does not impose zakah on all amounts of growing wealth. There is a minimum required for zakatability, which is called among jurists "
nisab". Sayings of the Prophet (p) exempt anything that is less than five camels, forty sheep, ...

... Five camels are the minimum for zakatability, and zakah on them is one sheep. In principle, zakah is collected from the same kind of the zakatable asset, but camels were exchanged for sheep at the time of the Prophet at the rate of eight to one, ten to one, or twelve to one, as reported in many sayings. One camel out of five would be too much, so one sheep is considered the amount of zakah due on five camels, since five camels would be at the least equal to forty sheep, on which the zakah due is one sheep."
I would assume this is the source of the 2.5% figure, i.e. one fortieth.

Offline FormlessTopic starter

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #370 on: May 25, 2015, 08:02:18 AM »
Well , just how Cassandra quoted.

The percentage is always the same. It simply depends on what kind of financial asset you're giving the zakat out of.

During the time of the prophet's the standards of how much each asset is worth was decided. At this day people just match the current price of gold to the amount of money , gold , silver , cattle or crops that they have , and calculate the percentage and give it out.

In a way , the rich pays huge amounts , while the less fortunate pays less. Some may not even pay as long as they do not reach the minimum standard. Which today is calculated by the worth of 85 grams of gold.

Hope that answers your question.

Offline elone

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #371 on: May 25, 2015, 11:18:36 PM »
85 grams of gold is a lot of money for a poor person. Is that what they pay or what they earn?  Also, is there a set receiver of the alms, or can it go to any charitable organization? Just curious.

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Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #372 on: May 25, 2015, 11:23:53 PM »
I believe that what Formless is saying (and based on the earlier quote) that 85 grams of gold would be the 'nisab' - owning/earning less than the equivalent of 85 grams of gold puts you in the range of not being obligated to tithe.

Offline FormlessTopic starter

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #373 on: May 26, 2015, 06:50:04 AM »
I believe that what Formless is saying (and based on the earlier quote) that 85 grams of gold would be the 'nisab' - owning/earning less than the equivalent of 85 grams of gold puts you in the range of not being obligated to tithe.

Exactly. The Nisab is what we consider the minimum requirement. Any less than that relieves one from giving out anything.

As for who receives the alms. Whoever in need. Some prefer to give it to a charity organization because its easier. And some give it to someone they know whose in need.

Of course spending it to build a mosque ( this is in the case of the richy rich type ) is not allowed. The money has to directly benefit the poor and not the community in general.

Online Callie Del Noire

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #374 on: May 29, 2015, 06:31:10 PM »
Not specific to religious doctrine exactly, but involves Islam.

Last year the Ms. Marvel superhero character underwent a character redevelopment/revival.  What was notable to many was that the protagonist, Kamala Khan, was a Muslim teenager, parents of Pakistani immigrants living in a New Jersey metropolis.

It was considered very groundbreaking and sold very well.  I was wondering if any of E's Muslims had any thoughts on the character overall.  I'm considering checking it out simply because a lot of folk are talking about it, but as someone who hasn't really kept up with superhero comics as of late I don't really have much insight into this.

I love it. It's one of two mainline marvel comics I read