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Author Topic: Smoking and Electronic Cigarettes  (Read 1185 times)

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Offline TaintedAndDelishTopic starter

Smoking and Electronic Cigarettes
« on: March 24, 2013, 08:49:10 PM »
I was a pack-a-day smoker from age 14  to 20. Getting off the nicotine was a bitch but I did manage. This was before the patch and nicotine gum was around. ( if it was around, I didn't know about it). When I started smoking, I was a teen and did it for stupid reasons. Once I got hooked, it was too late. I'll admit to having a strong bias against smoking as a result.

I was taking a look at this article on these new e cigs. ( Well they're not that new.) Arguments for them include the fact that they don't smell and don't deliver as much tar and crap - just the nicotine. Also, they could be helpful to someone who currently smokes real cigs.  I suppose my primary objection is that they are addictive, a waste of money, and someone is getting rich by exploiting this addiction. It seems morally wrong to allow this, but perhaps that's just me. What's your take?

http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21573986-world-should-welcome-electronic-cigarette-no-smoke-why-fire

Offline Silver

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Re: Smoking and Electronic Cigarettes
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2013, 09:55:16 PM »
As a smoker (who has quit once before), one who doesn't intend to quit in the near future. I can see the draw of having a cigarette that doesn't smell, that could be smoked indoors without bothering other people. On another hand it's a waste of money for in the end you would be spending more money on those electronic cigarettes in a year depending on how much a person smokes in a day or in a given week. Just my own personal thoughts on the matter.

Offline Trieste

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Re: Smoking and Electronic Cigarettes
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2013, 10:21:19 PM »
I'unno.

If you enjoy it, is it really a waste of money? We spend money on plenty of things we enjoy.

Offline Silver

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Re: Smoking and Electronic Cigarettes
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2013, 10:28:31 PM »
I'unno.

If you enjoy it, is it really a waste of money? We spend money on plenty of things we enjoy.

Well true enough...

Offline DarklingAlice

Re: Smoking and Electronic Cigarettes
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2013, 10:45:07 PM »
I suppose my primary objection is that they are addictive, a waste of money, and someone is getting rich by exploiting this addiction. It seems morally wrong to allow this, but perhaps that's just me. What's your take?

Not going to weigh in too strongly one way or the other, but would like to point out that the exact same could be said about alcohol consumption, which has remained socially acceptable (to the point that it is so iay mandated in some places) in a way that smoking has not.

Offline Valthazar

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Re: Smoking and Electronic Cigarettes
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2013, 10:52:06 PM »
Are there any negative health effects of nicotine use alone?

Offline Trieste

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Re: Smoking and Electronic Cigarettes
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2013, 10:58:29 PM »
Are there any negative health effects of nicotine use alone?

A quick glance at the Wikipedia page for nicotine yields information similar to caffeine, so the drug alone probably has similar health effects to other mild stimulants. For example, Adderall, Dexedrine, and Ritalin all have reported side effects in common with their milder cousin, caffeine. (Restlessness, headache, loss of appetite, insomnia, etc.)

Soooo... short answer is yes, and users should likely be aware of the possible health effects before choosing to take it. (Because that has stopped so many smokers and coffeeheads, donchaknow.  O:))

Offline TaintedAndDelishTopic starter

Re: Smoking and Electronic Cigarettes
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2013, 11:22:45 PM »
Regarding nicotine's level of addictivity, I found the following article.

http://www.drugsense.org/tfy/addictvn.htm


Offline Pumpkin Seeds

Re: Smoking and Electronic Cigarettes
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2013, 04:27:53 AM »
Nicotine is quite addictive but so are other legal substances such as alcohol and caffeine.  Alcohol and caffeine are both physically addictive as well with the former actually able to kill the person with withdrawal.

Offline TaintedAndDelishTopic starter

Re: Smoking and Electronic Cigarettes
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2013, 06:42:12 AM »
While nicotine may not produce a high or be as intoxicating (if that's the right word), it is seriously addictive. As my second link affirms, most folks who try to kick it fail. This in my opinion, is what I find so wrong about it. Should companies really be allowed to sell this to people - knowing that they will try it despite the required warnings, and that once hooked, their chances of breaking the habit will be very poor.

While this may be legal, it just feels wrong. It's terribly manipulative.

Offline meikle

Re: Smoking and Electronic Cigarettes
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2013, 06:46:59 AM »
Should companies really be allowed to sell this to people

Should people not be allowed to make bad decisions for themselves, knowing full well that every single cigarette pack you'll ever buy in the states basically says, "THIS IS GOING TO KILL YOU"?

I think that people have the right to embark on journeys of self-destruction.  I think that if you want to look at what regulations should be applied to cigarette companies, you should probably be looking at the additives -- those things that are not naturally occurring in tobacco, but which are added to cigarettes specifically to enhance their addictive quality (beyond the already severe addictive quality of natural tobacco.)
« Last Edit: March 25, 2013, 07:03:09 AM by meikle »

Offline Rhapsody

Re: Smoking and Electronic Cigarettes
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2013, 09:24:21 AM »
I'm on Champix myself, in week four of a twelve-week course of meds. I've been completely smoke-free for six days, but my habit went from a pack a day to less than five a day, dwindling down to one or two (or even a puff off the husband's cigarette). It isn't the physical craving I'm having a few problems with, but the oral fixation and need to do something with my hands. I've been considering buying an e-cig, mostly for the feel of it in my fingers. I don't know though, I'm not entirely sold on the expense.

Offline Mathim

Re: Smoking and Electronic Cigarettes
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2013, 10:32:14 AM »
I'd heard you can get them with just flavorful stuff in them, not the nicotine (don't know if that's true or not) so people can have a way to smoke things that will taste nice and give them fresh breath; again, this could be bunk but my friend who smoked an e-cig mentioned stuff like that. He was seriously addicted to regular ones though, and went back on them in less than a week. I think as far as using an e-cig to try and help decrease your dosage and wean yourself to facilitate quitting (as an alternative to things like gum and patches and stuff) they can be a good thing (if they work, which unfortunately my friend didn't seem to think they did) but if you're just going to use them as a substitute for actual cigarettes and use them long-term I don't see the point except that they make them less obnoxious to others who despise smokers who puff out second-hand smoke at non-smokers without a care. While it's true you can regulate the dosage and get less of the bad crap then a normal cigarette would put into you, if you're going to be doing it habitually there's basically no reason to give a damn about how much since it's all going to add up anyway. I can't remember if they were also supposed to be cheaper than regular cigarettes but I know I asked a 7-Eleven clerk about it a few years ago and they mentioned it did mean a certain amount of savings over regular cigarettes so I guess that means they'll be spending less money on the stuff that's killing them too.

I'd prefer nobody smoked since it's really lacking in any real benefit (not even any entertainment value or nutrition) but if I had to choose, I'd much prefer everyone switched to the electronic kind so the non-smoking majority doesn't have to put up with second-hand smoke that smells nauseating and poisons us even worse than the smokers which is totally unfair.

Offline Sasquatch421

Re: Smoking and Electronic Cigarettes
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2013, 10:51:15 AM »
Sometimes quitting depends on the person... When I quit that first time I had tried how many different non smoking aids that didn't help. In the end the only real way I could quit was by going cold turkey. (My family so loved being around me that first week...) I was actually smoke free for 6 years and then I got back together with my ex. She's a smoker that will never quit and the longer I was around her I eventually picked the habit back up. The people I work with and I have come up with weaning yourself off doesn't work cause all of us have tried it. With the E-Cigs though I was under the impression that they haven't truly been studied for health risks, but I haven't been paying attention lately... Dang schoolwork...

Offline Crazy

Re: Smoking and Electronic Cigarettes
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2013, 06:44:09 AM »
I am a cigarette smoker,  and have been twenty four years.  I've made several attempts to quit,  usually less than two days, but once as far as nine months.  I never got to a point I didn't want one every day.  Four hours without a smoke drives me to the edge,  I feel as though an invisible hand is crushing my heart.  Two days without one is enough to howl at the moon.  Even after long quits,  a single relapse from one of my many triggers sends me back immediatly to a pack a day mentality.

I don't even smoke a pack a day.  I smoke fifteen Marlboro Reds everyday, five packs a week.  I determined to try electronic cigarettes three weeks ago because colleagues at work were using them to keep productive without taking breaks.  A friend gave me one that was nearly finished, and at first I wasn't convinced it helped at all,  but I bought a diposable,  priced nicely at less than two packs,  and supposedly contains four hundred puffs, the equivalent of forty cigarettes.

I continued to buy packs of cigarettes according to my usual routine,  but by the end of the week,  I noticed I had left two packs unopened.  I was worried I might have picked up an expensive new vice like the time I tried cigars,  but instead it curbed my habit.  Also, for the first week,  I coughed up some thick phlegm like I would have if I had cut back on my smoking.  I feel great. I feel as though I've cut my smoking in half.   

An electronic cigarette does more than give an ever ready dose of nicotine.   It simulates the experience of smoking.  It would be hard to explain how important it is to a non-smoker that it lights up when you draw on it,  but it's an essential element to the comfort and solace of smoking.  Also, the water vapor fills your lungs, and though it's a bit lightweight, the exhale is satisfying enough.  You can keep it in your pocket like a pen,  and make an exaserbated show of having a smoke, or you can palm the light,  take a quick hit, and slip it back in your pocket without anyone noticing - hold your breath long enough and there is little 'smoke'.  Either way it evaporates almost instantly, and there is no odor.

I may maintain this regime of smoking and vaporising indefinately.  Even the over priced disposables are cheaper than the cigarettes they replace, and once I've tried them all,  I'll buy the kit, and the refills are

Offline Crazy

Re: Smoking and Electronic Cigarettes
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2013, 07:08:36 AM »
I may maintain this regime of smoking and vaporising indefinately.  Even the over priced disposables are cheaper than the cigarettes they replace, and once I've tried them all,  I'll buy the kit, and the refills are a third of the price. There are also many varieties,  from ultralight to full flavor, menthol or non, flavors, etc.

I would also like to someday quit, provided it doesn't torment me for life.  I have been told that the best way to quit is switch to 100% natural cigarettes because there are toxic and highly addictive substances besides nicotene in most brands,  and quitting natural cigarettes is much easier.  Most of my friends who have been enjoying e-cigs are down to a couple cigarettes a day,  or have moved entirely to electronics. 

I heartily endorse this product.  It makes a great gift for a smoker you care about.  It could affect a positive change in their lifestyle,  and they would be grateful. If you smoke,  pick one up for yourself.  You'll feel good about it.

Offline Blythe

Re: Smoking and Electronic Cigarettes
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2013, 03:34:18 PM »
The only thing I dislike about e-cigs is that they can burn your lips, mouth, or throat. Not that they always do, but they can. My dad tried them, and they do have a tendency to heat up kind of quickly.

Offline TaintedAndDelishTopic starter

Re: Smoking and Electronic Cigarettes
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2013, 04:04:10 PM »
"It would be hard to explain how important it is to a non-smoker that it lights up when you draw on it"

Its funny that you mentioned this. While I've never tried the e-cigs, I know exactly what your talking about. Its been over 20 years since I last smoked, yet after reading your description of the glow at the end and that feeling of exhaling, I was immediately brought back to that wonderful sensation. Nicotine is that powerful.

For those who don't smoke, "that wonderful sensation" is the short-lived relief from nicotine cravings. You smoke to relieve yourself of the urge for an hour or do. Rinse, lather, repeat.


 

Offline Trieste

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Re: Smoking and Electronic Cigarettes
« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2013, 04:17:27 PM »
That's somewhat oversimplifying the biochemistry of the thing, and it's somewhat taking your own experience and applying it to everyone. That's... not the case.  :-)

Offline TaintedAndDelishTopic starter

Re: Smoking and Electronic Cigarettes
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2013, 05:45:11 PM »
Bah... I stand corrected.... *grumbles* ... yes, that was *my* experience.

Offline Trieste

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Re: Smoking and Electronic Cigarettes
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2013, 05:55:30 PM »
It wasn't my intent to nitpick; I smoke when I can afford it, and I put it down when I can't afford it. (I'm cranky for a bit when I do so, but I'm also cranky when I miss my coffee, and the headache is worse.) I've known smokers who hated it, and who have felt much like you do - they feel trapped, undermined, and they really loathe the habit. I sympathize. I don't know the statistics, so I don't know what the typical experience is. I just know that the loathing thing is not every experience.

Offline Lord Mayerling

Re: Smoking and Electronic Cigarettes
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2013, 06:23:46 PM »
I'm interested in my own experience on this point. I'm a cigar smoker, not a cigarette smoker, and I've read from various sources (all trying to sell me something except wikipedia whose source is also likely a seller) that cigar smoking isn't as dangerous as cigarette smoking because you don't inhale the smoke into your lungs. For some reason I just find this dubious. One cigar has as much nicotine in it as a whole pack of cigarettes, and that nicotine is more efficiently absorbed and metabolized than from cigarettes as well.

This would lead me to hypothesize that cigars are inherently more addictive than cigarettes. However, I have not found this to be my own personal experience. I don't appear to have the common withdrawal symptoms such as shakes, crankiness, or the munchies. It could just be that I'm cranky all the time. But I wonder if cigarette addition has more to it than simple drug addiction. It seems like it might be more like lifestyle addiction: timing smoking with certain activities, taking breaks during a busy workday, doing something with one's idle hands, etc.

Offline TaintedAndDelishTopic starter

Re: Smoking and Electronic Cigarettes
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2013, 06:50:21 PM »

Just a guess, but if there is a difference in dosage and frequency of use, then perhaps one mechanism (cigarettes, cigars, pipe, chewing tobacco) might be more effective in conditioning the person than another.  Speaking from personal experience only, I know that in addition to the chemical addiction, there was also psychological addiction.

Offline Oniya

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Re: Smoking and Electronic Cigarettes
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2013, 06:55:39 PM »
I think to make a completely fair comparison between cigars and cigarettes, you'd also have to figure in the different additives that the companies put into each.  The relative speed of consumption makes cigarettes easier to fit into breaks (no one smokes a cigar in 5 minutes, I'm sure), and from what I've read, the price of a good cigar is also higher than a pack of cigarettes.  Would you say that you smoke a cigar each day?  (That's one thing I have no clue on: the habits of a cigar smoker.)

Offline Seara

Re: Smoking and Electronic Cigarettes
« Reply #24 on: March 27, 2013, 11:51:02 AM »
I have an E cigarette that I have been puffing on at work and slowly weaning myself off from the real cigarettes. I know I am extremely addicted and that quitting smoking completely won't happen without multiple homicides if I don't step down. I have gone from smoking 10-15 real cigarettes a day down to about 6 and am working my way down to none. I know that the nicotine is still there but they are less harmful, I already smell and taste better and the refillable kinds are way cheaper than a pack of real smokes.