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Author Topic: New World of Warcraft cinematic for Panderia  (Read 12970 times)

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Offline Question Mark

Re: New World of Warcraft cinematic for Panderia
« Reply #75 on: August 30, 2012, 01:14:02 AM »
I love the lore of WoW.  I've participated in dozens of forum games based on the War-verse, and even have one going on right now.  I used to RP all the time (Emerald Dream represent!).  I've come up with a dozen fleshed out characters with their own intersecting stories and relationships.  I think it's a beautiful universe.

But I just can't take pandas seriously.  Blizzard didn't even try to be original.

Quote
"Look," said Blizz Exec #1.  "We should totally expand on the pandaren.  They were in Warcraft 3, remember?  Maybe do with them like we did with the night elves: fuse a couple of real life civilizations together, along with some original ideas, and make something unique and true to the Warcraft universe!"

"Wow, that sounds great!" exclaims Exec #2.  "Except, I think we should emphasize the anthropomorphic panda look, keep calling them pandaren, and put them on an island called Pandaria (get it?  They're pandas!)!  We should also make their entire culture a ripoff of the common Western vision of Chinese culture, complete with Chinese names, calligraphy, spirituality, architecture, landscapes, philosophy, and so on!  It'll be so original and true to the Warcraft universe!"

Blizz Exec #1 then tries to point out how WoW's continued trend of blatant cultural ripoffs a la Uldum/Gilneas/THighlands/etc. may cheapen the story and weaken the game's suspension of disbelief, but gets swamped underneath the dollar signs literally popping out of everyone else's eyes.

Seriously.  They are anthropomorphic pandas, called pandaren, living on a continent named Pandaria, whose entire cultural motif is a copy-paste of traditional Chinese mythology.  When I look at this expansion, I don't see Pandaria.  I see China.  Because that's what it is.  There's very little originality to it, and it completely kills my suspension of disbelief.  I love where the story is going, with the war between the Alliance and Horde quickly ramping up, and how that war is manifesting via the Sha, and how they will (hopefully) learn the benefits of peace.  I love the themes, most of the new gameplay mechanics (paladins losing auras = wtf).  I love the cinematics, the new graphics, the mechanics of the monk class, the music.  I love the new gameplay model with tons of daily quests and non-linear levelling.  I love everything about the new expansion, except for the fucking pandas.  It's driving me nuts.  I love this universe, have loved it for over a decade, and now I can't take it seriously anymore.  All.  Because.  Of those.  Motherfucking.  Pandas.

I don't usually rage because of video games, but I've been slowly losing faith in Blizzard ever since they joined with Activision, and became more focused on the bottom line than making great games.  And now this.

Oh, I am mad.  I am downright furious.  One of my favorite universes, treated so shoddily, full of pop culture references and carrots-on-sticks, its story with such rich themes reduced to "Look, now you can play as fluffy pandas, aren't they just ADORABLE?  What, you want serious stories with believable themes and emotions?  Oh, you're such a nerd."

Simply put, World of Warcraft has become the Call of Duty of MMORPGs -- insanely popular cash-cow franchise with a once great, now cheap, story and casual-catering gameplay -- when it should be the Halflife of MMOs!  Blizzard was like Valve and Bungie, and now they're like IW and EA.

It's so damned sad.  I hate it.  I used to love Blizzard, but now I feel betrayed by them.  They're no longer a game company, they're a corporation.

/rant
« Last Edit: August 30, 2012, 01:15:47 AM by Question Mark »

Offline ofDelusions

Re: New World of Warcraft cinematic for Panderia
« Reply #76 on: August 30, 2012, 11:22:23 AM »
To be frank, when I look at pandaren I don't see them as any less original or serious than say Tauren.

Of course I have always been of opinion that WoW lore has always had interesting themes, but has always failed on delivering those par few occasions and has always been filled with Retcons and plot holes.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: New World of Warcraft cinematic for Panderia
« Reply #77 on: August 30, 2012, 11:57:37 AM »
To be frank, when I look at pandaren I don't see them as any less original or serious than say Tauren.

Of course I have always been of opinion that WoW lore has always had interesting themes, but has always failed on delivering those par few occasions and has always been filled with Retcons and plot holes.

Lots of loreissuescould have been done.  Like how the kings kidnapping quest line just....stopped. Then he's back with nothing.

Offline Aiden

Re: New World of Warcraft cinematic for Panderia
« Reply #78 on: August 30, 2012, 12:44:25 PM »
Lots of loreissuescould have been done.  Like how the kings kidnapping quest line just....stopped. Then he's back with nothing.

The story was told in the comic books.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: New World of Warcraft cinematic for Panderia
« Reply #79 on: August 30, 2012, 12:52:39 PM »
The story was told in the comic books.

Rather the quest line had been done in game.  What they put out covered nearly 20 levels before vanishing.

Offline Moraline

Re: New World of Warcraft cinematic for Panderia
« Reply #80 on: August 30, 2012, 01:18:41 PM »
Old World of Warcraft - Badass serious adventure with a slightly cartoony game. It rated at about 90% Serious action adventure and 10% silliness. Which is good to me. gotta have a little bit of humor to lighten the mood.
Original Cinematic - Drums of War

- A few pop culture references and silly geek humor. Mostly geared toward gaming and sci-fi/fantasy geeks.

- Then came Burning Crusade - Still badass serious adventure. 90% action adventure 10-15% silly cartoon humor. Mostly from Goblins and Gnomes (PS: I don't like either race) They also added more geek humor for us. And still the cinematic even had cute little blood elf suck the life out of a Mana-worm. Nothing silly in that cinematic.

- Then came Wrath of the Lich King - Still badass serious adventure. They started to bring in a lot more humor though. It had started with geek humor and become a lot more mainstream in LK. My goodness, Chuck Norris and Mr T started making commercials for the game. It was amusing but starting to lose it's charm. At least the cinematic was still dark serious adventure. There was a dramatic edge to the expansion.

- Sparkle ponies came into the game. The humor was very mainstream and things like the sparkle ponies had us all doing a /facepalm.

- Then they did this epic change up of the game. It was a dramatic shift in the world with a month long lead up to the Cataclysm

- Release of Cataclysm. Here is where things started to go seriously wrong. The Goblins invaded everything and the gnomes expanded. Now silly gadgets, sarcastic humor and mainstream pop culture exploded into every aspect of the game. There was still some charm to it, although a lot of people were tired of it and started to leave. I personally couldn't stand it but a lot of people liked it. Some people just really love those little gnomes and goblins despite their incessant over the top humor.
Cataclysm Cinematic- All Will Burn
- Now the game had come to be about  60% Action Adventure and 40% Humor. Nearly every story line has some funny stuff in it.

- Now... Mists of Panderia is coming. Cinematic even contains humor... The new race looks like teddy bears and the entire concept reeks of silliness. Old panda warcraft concept or not, I'm sure they had many other choices they could have gone with that had more meaning and looked less like a disney inspired theme. Or could have been handled differently.
Kung-Fu Panda, er I mean Mists of Panderia Trailer - Why Do We Fight

Why does the Panda shame them in combat in the cinematic? In no other cinematic does the Horde or Alliance beat each other so easily. There is War and Battle! In this new one, they make the Panda look like the ultimate slapstick super hero.



Someone made the comparison between Tauren and Pandaren. I for one have never liked Tauren that much. But really a Tauren is a spin off of a Minotaur a mythical raging beast so it's hardly a good comparison. Not to mention the fact that Tauren are deeply spiritual in nature and don't tilt up poles in cinematic with a bo-staff and smile like a Pandaren.


I'm afraid that WoW has gone from an action adventure game into a MMORPG-Slapstick Comedy routine. Not taking yourself to seriously is one thing but it's a whole other thing when you stop taking yourself seriously at all.

I give up on WoW.

Offline Aiden

Re: New World of Warcraft cinematic for Panderia
« Reply #81 on: August 30, 2012, 01:52:59 PM »
Warcraft Pandaren Brewmaster Quotes


/Macro all these quotes to my upcoming panderan characters.

Offline Question Mark

Re: New World of Warcraft cinematic for Panderia
« Reply #82 on: August 30, 2012, 04:09:22 PM »
To be frank, when I look at pandaren I don't see them as any less original or serious than say Tauren.

Of course I have always been of opinion that WoW lore has always had interesting themes, but has always failed on delivering those par few occasions and has always been filled with Retcons and plot holes.

I hear this argument a lot on sites like wow.joystiq.com, which I still frequent, mainly for lore and news updates.  Basically, the argument goes like this:

1.) WoW has a precedent for silliness, a la Tauren.
2.) Pandaren are also silly.
3.) Thus, Pandaren are acceptable.

I disagree.  Tauren are a new take on a classic fantasy trope, the minotaur, and felt fresh and original.  Pandaren don't have any precedent, and really are just anthropomorphic Chinese pandas.  There's nothing original about them.  Maybe if they had a streak of Japanese bushido, along with a more Indian style, and possibly a Mongolian appearance, they'd be more original, and thus more believable.

But they're not.  Goddamnit Blizzard.

P.S. I'm not a fan of the "MoP = Kung fu Panda" comparison.  KFP came out years after WC3.  They both drew on the same inspirational source (martial arts in classical China), not each other.  Just thought I'd clear that up.

Offline Moraline

Re: New World of Warcraft cinematic for Panderia
« Reply #83 on: August 30, 2012, 05:17:45 PM »
P.S. I'm not a fan of the "MoP = Kung fu Panda" comparison.  KFP came out years after WC3.  They both drew on the same inspirational source (martial arts in classical China), not each other.  Just thought I'd clear that up.

The reason why people make the comparison is because Blizzard is giving the Pandaren image a KungFu Panda twist. Just look at the video as he does all kinds of super kung fu moves then tips the post back into place with his staff and has a silly smirk on his face. You can't say that was in Warcraft3. It wasn't.

Plain and simple Blizzard is doing it on purpose and everyone can see it accept the people that say "it was in Warcraft 3 first."  No, it wasn't. Pandaren was but not THAT! *points to the Mists of Pandaria cinematic* The video and the way the concept is being presented is a mockery to anyone that had any serious interest in the lore and the epic battle that is/was the World of Warcraft.

Blizzard is playing up on the kung fu Panda angle and it's disgusting. I don't' like the Pandas as it is but when they do that. I just plain out hate it. It's silly and it's crass commercialism.

Offline Question Mark

Re: New World of Warcraft cinematic for Panderia
« Reply #84 on: August 30, 2012, 05:21:47 PM »
The reason why people make the comparison is because Blizzard is giving the Pandaren image a KungFu Panda twist. Just look at the video as he does all kinds of super kung fu moves then tips the post back into place with his staff and has a silly smirk on his face. You can't say that was in Warcraft3. It wasn't.

Plain and simple Blizzard is doing it on purpose and everyone can see it accept the people that say "it was in Warcraft 3 first."  No, it wasn't. Pandaren was but not THAT! *points to the Mists of Pandaria cinematic* The video and the way the concept is being presented is a mockery to anyone that had any serious interest in the lore and the epic battle that is/was the World of Warcraft.

Blizzard is playing up on the kung fu Panda angle and it's disgusting. I don't' like the Pandas as it is but when they do that. I just plain out hate it. It's silly and it's crass commercialism.

Good point.  I couldn't agree more.

Offline Moraline

Re: New World of Warcraft cinematic for Panderia
« Reply #85 on: August 30, 2012, 05:31:00 PM »
I've been thinking a lot about this topic. I was wondering why I get so worked up about it. I've barely played the game in the last couple years.. but as much as I try to walk away from these topics I find myself continually reading them and occasionally replying.

I know why I am furious with the expansion. For all of the reasons I stated in my last two posts. On top of that. Even though the game is dated looking and stuff. I still think that they did a good job with it at it's core. I loved my time in WoW and I'm upset that they are ruining it.

I even miss the socializing and stuff. Late night raids, crazy off the wall RP. I lost my online RP virginity in that game, both figuratively and literally.

Simply the game was an amazing adventure. Now it's a cheap comedy and I'm not amused by it.

Offline Question Mark

Re: New World of Warcraft cinematic for Panderia
« Reply #86 on: August 30, 2012, 05:52:53 PM »
I've been thinking a lot about this topic. I was wondering why I get so worked up about it. I've barely played the game in the last couple years.. but as much as I try to walk away from these topics I find myself continually reading them and occasionally replying.

I know why I am furious with the expansion. For all of the reasons I stated in my last two posts. On top of that. Even though the game is dated looking and stuff. I still think that they did a good job with it at it's core. I loved my time in WoW and I'm upset that they are ruining it.

I even miss the socializing and stuff. Late night raids, crazy off the wall RP. I lost my online RP virginity in that game, both figuratively and literally.

Simply the game was an amazing adventure. Now it's a cheap comedy and I'm not amused by it.

Again, exactly my thoughts!  I still remember my first time playing WoW, with a human warrior made on my uncle's account right after Naxx came out.  I was instantly addicted.  I remember hitting level 10 and crossing the bridge into Westfall, and how the scope of the game just hit me.  I had spent hours wandering around Elwynn; I didn't even go to Stormwind (it was too intimidating to a newbie).  And now there's this whole other zone?  And there's dozens more?  Holy crap, this world is HUGE!  There's so much stuff to do, a true adventure!  And it was a damn good adventure.

Now, like you said, it's just... not.  It's lost that spark, that sense of epicness.  I don't ride halfway around the world, gathering fellow adventurers to delve into a dungeon.  I hit the LFG button, get grouped with a bunch of people I've never met and never will meet again, roflstomp the loot pinata, and walk away with my shinies.  That's not an adventure, that's a job.  RP's been dying out because of it, people have been cancelling their accounts because of it.  But there's enough casuals still pumping money into the machine to make those losses negligible, so Blizz will keep with the model.

Goddamnit Blizz, you were so good.  What's become of you?

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: New World of Warcraft cinematic for Panderia
« Reply #87 on: August 30, 2012, 06:07:57 PM »
For all the people suffering from acute third-stage Grognardian Syndrome...is it possible that the game hasn't changed, but you have? Too much of something builds tolerance - it's why I gave up on WoW. I didn't have any rose-colored nostalgic delusions that it had been 'ruined for teh casuals and kiddiez', or that its storytelling had plummeted, or that it was nerfed into the ground for more profits. I could see that it was still the same game I played in Vanilla...the same cartoony graphics, the same heaps of in-jokes and nerdy pop culture easter eggs, the same emphasis on making every single player the grand hero of their story simultaneous and concurrent with the millions of other One True Heroes. The same sense of adventure and exploration each expansion with its new artwork and landscapes, reminiscent of the previous expansion's terrain but with its own unique twists.

It hadn't changed a bit, and that's why I gave it up, because they were retreading the same material too many times. I'd become inured to Blizzard's storytelling, I needed more to keep me interested beyond The Last Expansion Was Only A Setback, Now I Will Destroy The World! for the fourth, fifth, sixth time. It's still the same game I loved when I started playing it, but I didn't love it anymore, so I walked away.

Offline Question Mark

Re: New World of Warcraft cinematic for Panderia
« Reply #88 on: August 30, 2012, 06:20:58 PM »
I used to play all of the time.  After Cata, LFG, and the shrinking of the world via flying mounts, as well as the terrible ripoffs of Uldum and Gilneas, I slowed down quite a bit.  For a while, I only logged on to Raid.  Low level questing had lost its allure, replaced by railroad quest lines that took this massive world and turned it into a linear, hyperspeed "experience."  I could easily go from L1 to L20 in just a couple of hours.  That is completely different from ye olde days.  Your characters don't have a chance to grow or develop, they just ding!-ding!-ding! grats, you are teh winrar!  I don't like pulling out the "they're catering to casuals" rhetoric, but it really seems to be that way.  WoW has become so user-friendly that it's lost what, IMO, made it awesome to begin with.

Ya, Vanilla and BC had their problems, but at least they preserved the sense of epic adventure, and kept easter eggs and pop culture references where they belonged: in the corner, where curious players may find them.  Stuff like attunements: I LOVED that, although I wish they were more streamlined.  Instead Blizz tosses it out.  Hunters requiring to feed/take care of their pets or suffer penalties in combat was a brilliant mechanic, but nope, it got tossed because it was "busywork."  Goddamnit, it's called flavor and it supports the suspension of disbelief!  Now the pet's just a button I press if it dies in combat.

The game has changed dramatically, is the point I'm trying to make.  Some ways in the better, such as phasing and better designed quest hubs, but overwhelmingly in the negative.  IMO, anyway.

Offline Serephino

Re: New World of Warcraft cinematic for Panderia
« Reply #89 on: August 30, 2012, 08:40:43 PM »
So far I'm getting more and more frustrated with it.  With this last patch they 'fixed' more stuff that wasn't broke.  BC and LK actually added something to the game and the lore.  There were even more places to explore, and in BC we got two more races.  Although, I will point out that Blizz was kicking around the idea of giving Alliance pandas in BC.  I don't know  why they didn't.  I just know they had sketches and stuff up on the official website, and then the dranei came out of nowhere, and didn't even really seem completely fleshed out when the game was released.

In Cata, they just had a dragon trash the world for sensationalism it would seem.  I get that the same old starting quests were getting boring, but they didn't have to go and do that.  They changed stuff up a little in most of the starting areas without destroying them.  Now Darkshore is difficult to navigate.  They gave every little town and encampment a flight path, so very little running around now.  I remember the days where you had to work your ass off for a mount at 40, and you really appreciated it.  Lowering the level to 20, and making it a bit easier wasn't a bad thing.  It's the flight path thing that is just so annoying to me.  You don't even have to go to that area anymore, and the whole map is crammed full, and it's impossible to find anything.

Now this panda stuff, which doesn't seem to add anything either.  If they're giving both factions pandas that's going to cause a problem, especially in pvp because nobody is going to be able to tell who is who.  The patch they had so much hype over fucked everything all to hell.  The talent system was fine like it was in the original, but no, that wasn't good enough.  Now it's... I don't know...  They don't allow ranged weapons anymore.  They still have them, it's just you have to put them in one of your 2 weapon spots.  You either have to use it to fight with close up, or not at all.  Some of these changes, I don't know what the hell...  I'm a casual player, and they're pissing me off, so you can't even say that's what they're doing.

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: New World of Warcraft cinematic for Panderia
« Reply #90 on: August 30, 2012, 08:48:33 PM »
Didn't they remove the minimum-range requirement for ranged weapons and wands a long time ago? As far as I'd heard and seen, the weapon change just removed the need for everyone to carry a stat-stick, lowering the # of 'required items" for a full gear set by one - warriors have a throw weapon ability instead of lugging around a gun they never shoot, mages just have more powerful wands instead of needing a wand they'll never shoot plus a staff they'll never swing, hunters just keep using their bow at melee range instead of hunting out the biggest, highest-agility spear they will literally never make a single attack with...

Offline Chris BradyTopic starter

Re: New World of Warcraft cinematic for Panderia
« Reply #91 on: August 30, 2012, 09:08:41 PM »
The game hasn't changed?  No, it has.  And I don't just mean mechanically (although I was SO HAPPY when they made Arms viable as a DPS style, too bad by that time most of the end game raids had already long past, and now just Transmog fodder...  I miss Karazhan.  And the original Zul'Gurub), but the people have changed.

Yes, you always had the rage quitters, the whiny, self-entitled 'hardcore' set, but now?  There's not ONE Pick Up Group that doesn't have someone who ditches, or rage quits because we just didn't mesh on that particular Boss.  Everything seems to be "srs bznss!", no one wants to slow down and EXPERIENCE the raid or dungeon, it's all "Rush through!", yes, there were plenty of rushers in Vanilla and BC and definitely Wrath, but you could, sometimes find that group that would mosey along, crushing everything in it's path, but willing to stop and look about.  Half the new (Wrath +) instances, I still don't know what they completely look like on the inside.

And I still haven't done Black Temple, Serpent Shine Caverns or Tempest Keep, for that matter.

On my server, an RP server, the only RP action anyone gets anymore is Goldshire.  And we all know what kinda action THAT is.

As Alliance, I keep saying we should get a raid together and raze that place to the ground.  Burn it down to a cinder.

They'd never see it coming.

I personally, have not really changed.  I still look to play in character, I still take things too slowly in dungeons, I still love to explore, despite having seen it all.  And I still have a low tolerance for idiots, griefers and trolls.  There just seems to be more of them now...

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: New World of Warcraft cinematic for Panderia
« Reply #92 on: August 30, 2012, 09:35:53 PM »
Oh, I wouldn't argue that the player population hasn't changed. But when your game population balloons to 9-10 million people, a significant percentage of those (for example, everyone who posts on the official forums) are going to be assholes. The more total players, the more simple math makes it likely you'll be paired with a bad apple. That's not Blizzard's fault, not when the silver lining to that cloud was the end of spending an hour sitting in Trade chat trying to find a tank and healer for your instance run.

My point wasn't that every single little detail of the game is still the same, that's an obvious falsehood. I was saying that everything that made it World of Warcraft is still there, and the people who insist that it's only gone downhill since [Vanilla/BC/Wrath/Cata, choose your Point of No Return] Ruined It Forever need to take off the rose-tinted glasses and/or tone down the elitism. I remember runs like you describe, I also remember great runs where everyone got along amazing, but it's elementary human psychology to emphasize the negative in memory.

Offline Aiden

Re: New World of Warcraft cinematic for Panderia
« Reply #93 on: August 30, 2012, 09:51:24 PM »
Escaping Baby Pandas

Run pandas run! They all hate you!

Offline Chris BradyTopic starter

Re: New World of Warcraft cinematic for Panderia
« Reply #94 on: August 30, 2012, 09:54:07 PM »
Actually, Glyph, I also disagree.  Blizzard IS to blame.  But that goes back to Vanilla.

If you played back then, you might remember a couple of places.  Like Old Ironforge, and the like.  And the 'zone' that was kept behind a gate in Stormwind.  Or the quest chain that ended abruptly in Ravenholdt (which by the way is STILL THERE and ENDS THE SAME WAY.)

Blizzard has never finished anything they started in WoW.  They keep layering new stuff and more new stuff until they hope the players forget the only stuff still exists.  Hell, they invalidated their previous end game with each new expansion, and neglected anything that was broken, or missing in the previous expansion.

And now, with Jay Wilson at the helm, who is so pro-Horde, I'm surprised he hasn't wiped out all of the Alliance and made just make people roll Horde characters, it's changing even more.

Hell, the entire 'War' chain.  I've said this before, in Andorhal, Alliance side, the only way to finish the quest chain is to 'win', and yet, for no apparent reason, the Alliance loses.  No build up, no explanation, just a loss.  We get all sorts of cool things happening Horde side, and reasons as to why, but Alliance gets an even shorter stick with the story/lore.

Blizzard is totally at fault.  They aren't listening to their fanbase (not fanboys, BASE, the ones who pay to play their game.)

I'm pretty sure when MoP gets wrung out to dry, Mr. Wilson will publicly admit that he was wrong about what the fans wanted (again) and change absolutely nothing about the game.  Cataclysm was possibly the most lackluster expansion to date, and MoP doesn't seem to be picking up the slack.  And I say this as someone who played the Beta since it's release.

Offline Question Mark

Re: New World of Warcraft cinematic for Panderia
« Reply #95 on: August 30, 2012, 10:01:40 PM »
So far I'm getting more and more frustrated with it.  With this last patch they 'fixed' more stuff that wasn't broke.  BC and LK actually added something to the game and the lore.  There were even more places to explore, and in BC we got two more races.  Although, I will point out that Blizz was kicking around the idea of giving Alliance pandas in BC.  I don't know  why they didn't.  I just know they had sketches and stuff up on the official website, and then the dranei came out of nowhere, and didn't even really seem completely fleshed out when the game was released.

In Cata, they just had a dragon trash the world for sensationalism it would seem.  I get that the same old starting quests were getting boring, but they didn't have to go and do that.  They changed stuff up a little in most of the starting areas without destroying them.  Now Darkshore is difficult to navigate.  They gave every little town and encampment a flight path, so very little running around now.  I remember the days where you had to work your ass off for a mount at 40, and you really appreciated it.  Lowering the level to 20, and making it a bit easier wasn't a bad thing.  It's the flight path thing that is just so annoying to me.  You don't even have to go to that area anymore, and the whole map is crammed full, and it's impossible to find anything.

Now this panda stuff, which doesn't seem to add anything either.  If they're giving both factions pandas that's going to cause a problem, especially in pvp because nobody is going to be able to tell who is who.  The patch they had so much hype over fucked everything all to hell.  The talent system was fine like it was in the original, but no, that wasn't good enough.  Now it's... I don't know...  They don't allow ranged weapons anymore.  They still have them, it's just you have to put them in one of your 2 weapon spots.  You either have to use it to fight with close up, or not at all.  Some of these changes, I don't know what the hell...  I'm a casual player, and they're pissing me off, so you can't even say that's what they're doing.


It's funny, that.  Most of the changes you lament in this post I applauded.  The draenei are probably my favorite race, even though they constantly keep getting passed up by Blizz (yet another thing to add to my list of grievances).  I was thrilled to have them in BC, and they fit in perfectly with Alliance ideals.

Deathwing was a terrible, poorly handled character, and the entire Cata expansion suffered so much for it.  However, the breaking of the world was a cool mechanic, and it did give Blizz the perfect excuse to revamp all of the old world zones.  They could have just done a "poof, now everything's different!" but instead they came up with a lore explanation for it.  One of the few good things about Cata.

I loved the new Darkshore, mainly because I felt genuine sorrow that I would never walk Auberdine's docks again, or explore the interior foothills for mysterious beacons and savage moonkin.  When a game evokes emotion, you know it's done its job right.  Plus, the devastation is beautiful, in its own way.

You're spot on with the mounts.  They're way too easy to get nowadays, what with lower prices, super-fast levelling, and lower level requirements.  I'd personally stick 60% at L30, 100% at L60, flying at L70, and 310% at level cap, whatever it may be, and make it expensive as FUCK.  At the moment, mounts are a given.  Any shmuck can afford one.  They're no longer a reward, just a delayed tool.

Also spot on with the flight paths.  I noticed one day that you automatically receive flight paths to zones your level, without even having to explore them first.  One of the worst design decisions possible, it just shrinks the world even further.  There's no incentives to explore.  You don't even have to know where a dungeon is to queue for it!

I don't know about you guys, but when I PvP, I'm looking at the big red names above my enemies heads, which are much more visible than their race, especially from a distance.  Pandas being able to be played by both factions, I think, was an excellent design choice, and one of the few times Blizz has encouraged RP (albeit indirectly).

Hype is hype.  It's not changing anytime soon.

I like the new talents, but I will miss the every-other-level system.  They both have their advantages, but I will not miss cookie-cutter builds at all.

I'm not a fan of the weaponry changes, or the removal of hunter's "dead zone," or the removal of resistances.  The stats one has to worry about has been shrinking since BC, and is one of the surest signs of WoW's decay.  Optimizing stats is easier than ever!

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My point wasn't that every single little detail of the game is still the same, that's an obvious falsehood. I was saying that everything that made it World of Warcraft is still there, and the people who insist that it's only gone downhill since [Vanilla/BC/Wrath/Cata, choose your Point of No Return] Ruined It Forever need to take off the rose-tinted glasses and/or tone down the elitism. I remember runs like you describe, I also remember great runs where everyone got along amazing, but it's elementary human psychology to emphasize the negative in memory.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I tossed my rose-tinted glasses a long, long time ago.  Vanilla blew in many ways: the logistics of 40 man raids, a cruel and long gear grind to raid-readiness, many zones were incomplete or understocked on quests, and classes were reduced to a few optimal specs (poor protadins...).  What I'm complaining about is the fact that, although Blizzard has fixed these issues, they've also broken some of the things that made Vanilla great!  Stuff like being forced to explore, a slow leveling process that gave you a sense of satisfaction for every ding! you earned (and you did earn those ding!s), a sense of community on your server, complete with blacklists for griefers and vast social networks spanning guilds, and the constant reminder that one day, if you worked your ass off, you could have your own shiny purples and curbstomp some bosses, and feel like you actually earned it.  I miss that shit.  That's what made WoW great.  That hero's path of adventure.

No, I am not an elitist. I never raided until Wrath's Naxx, and I was okay with that, because I earned that raid spot goddamnit!


@Chris

There was definitely some Alliance-neglect (Note, not Horde bias) going on in Cata.  Alliance zones are an endless litany of crushing defeats, humiliating retreats, and wince-worthy pop culture ripoffs.  Their leaders are cardboard figurines who do nothing, or even betray their own race to work with the Horde (*coughMalfurioncough*).  And their women!  Poor Jaina, so concerned for her male leaders that she's been reduced to a tear factory, and Tyrande, who has lost her spine and must constantly be comforted and saved by Malfurion.  "Hush, Tyrande"?!  Warcraft 3's Tyrande would have decked him.

Horde's got their fair share of screw ups too, but it's nowhere near as bad as the Alliance.  There was such an immense backlash from Blizzcon '11 and the announcement of Theramore that I think Blizz has taken notice, and will be more even-handed in Pandaria.  I've seen the intro cinematics and quest chains, and I don't see any bias.


Damn, I never should have responded to this thread.  I am raging hard.  Yet, it is somewhat cathartic.

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: New World of Warcraft cinematic for Panderia
« Reply #96 on: August 30, 2012, 11:05:08 PM »
Actually, Glyph, I also disagree.  Blizzard IS to blame.  But that goes back to Vanilla.

If you played back then, you might remember a couple of places.  Like Old Ironforge, and the like.  And the 'zone' that was kept behind a gate in Stormwind.  Or the quest chain that ended abruptly in Ravenholdt (which by the way is STILL THERE and ENDS THE SAME WAY.)

Blizzard has never finished anything they started in WoW.  They keep layering new stuff and more new stuff until they hope the players forget the only stuff still exists.  Hell, they invalidated their previous end game with each new expansion, and neglected anything that was broken, or missing in the previous expansion.

And now, with Jay Wilson at the helm, who is so pro-Horde, I'm surprised he hasn't wiped out all of the Alliance and made just make people roll Horde characters, it's changing even more.

Hell, the entire 'War' chain.  I've said this before, in Andorhal, Alliance side, the only way to finish the quest chain is to 'win', and yet, for no apparent reason, the Alliance loses.  No build up, no explanation, just a loss.  We get all sorts of cool things happening Horde side, and reasons as to why, but Alliance gets an even shorter stick with the story/lore.

Blizzard is totally at fault.  They aren't listening to their fanbase (not fanboys, BASE, the ones who pay to play their game.)

I'm pretty sure when MoP gets wrung out to dry, Mr. Wilson will publicly admit that he was wrong about what the fans wanted (again) and change absolutely nothing about the game.  Cataclysm was possibly the most lackluster expansion to date, and MoP doesn't seem to be picking up the slack.  And I say this as someone who played the Beta since it's release.

I'm not sure if you keep taking me out of context accidentally or not - that 'Blizzard was not to blame' was specifically talking about your complaint that the quality of random pickup groups had deteriorated dramatically. It's not like they put a sticker on the box that said 'Now With 100% more Assholes".


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Also spot on with the flight paths.  I noticed one day that you automatically receive flight paths to zones your level, without even having to explore them first.  One of the worst design decisions possible, it just shrinks the world even further.  There's no incentives to explore.  You don't even have to know where a dungeon is to queue for it!
Yeah, that was pretty lame, though I disagree somewhat on the dungeon queue bit...having to hike a bazillion miles to get to it made places like Wailing Caverns almost never visited. Some sort of system where you had to physically visit the place once in order to unlock it would have been better, but the need for everyone to hike out to the location was an unnecessary hassle.

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Damn, I never should have responded to this thread.  I am raging hard.  Yet, it is somewhat cathartic.
It really is.

Offline Serephino

Re: New World of Warcraft cinematic for Panderia
« Reply #97 on: August 30, 2012, 11:48:22 PM »
I lost those so called 'rose tinted glasses' when farmers started taking over.  They ruined the economy to the point where it can't be fixed without wiping everything.  Blizzard's answer to this was to make gold easier to get.  However, all this did was cause massive inflation.  Go to the auction house sometime and look at low level items.  Ten gold for a level 5 item... 

I remember when I could get a level 15 item for ten silver.  The only way to get decent items anymore is to have them drop for you, or have a high level character to farm with.  If you're just starting out as a beginner, forget going to the auction house.  You can't afford it.  Hell, I've sold vanilla epics for less than what it would cost to get a green item half that level.  I know it's because BC items made those sets obsolete, but damn, I it really shouldn't be cheaper to outfit a 60 in full vanilla epics than deck out a level ten in green items, but I've done it.

I did use melee weapons on hunters, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.  It's probably not as common since you start off with a pet (you used to have to earn those too).  But, say you're running around, and you and your faithful pet are killing something.  Something else comes up behind you, but you don't know until you're being attacked.  I know they got rid of distance restrictions, but seriously, with a real bow you couldn't shoot something standing right in front of you.  This may be a game, but if it's not at least a tiny bit realistic, it looks stupid.  My boyfriend also pointed out that they made it so you take less damage in pvp, but they made ranged weapons stronger.  That gives hunters a slight advantage.

Admittedly, I didn't use wands on casters much.  For a while, I wasn't even bothering with them.  The only time I missed them is to more easily catch runners without having to cast, or when I didn't have enough mana.  I do make use of staffs, mostly while waiting for spell cooldowns.  I did use thrown weapons on rogues all the time.  It was a pain making sure I kept those upgraded so my armor rating didn't suffer, but it wasn't that horrible given how much I used them.

I still remember when you could mix talent points from all three trees.  That wasn't a problem until some people figured out how to make really good combinations.  I always used to make my priests mostly shadow for questing, but with a few holy points to help heal in dungeons.  Elitists didn't like that, and maybe Blizzard got tired of the constant whining.

The dungeon ques aren't too bad I guess.  It does beat hours in trade channel, but it also got that whole instant gratification thing going.  People did start rushing more than they used to.  Yes, people did originally too, but those people were once yelled at.  After every fight the party used to stop and pick up loot, and casters would sit and regain mana...  Now it's rush rush rush!  They can't be bothered to make sure the healer has enough mana.  I've gone through as a priest, taken only a second to loot a corpse, and next thing I know the tank is in the next room almost dead. 

People will leave after one wipe.  I remember wiping 8 or 9 times during a run, and everybody came back and we tried again.  Now people get mad and leave because they can just get another group who isn't full of noobs in a few minutes.  I can also remember the LFG channel was global, and I didn't have to spend hours in trade.  That was ruined by a few childish idiots.         

Offline Moraline

Re: New World of Warcraft cinematic for Panderia
« Reply #98 on: August 31, 2012, 09:48:20 AM »
Ok my funniest moment from Cata...

I spend like 3 days clearing every single quest in Uldum and getting my guild together to help me get achievements (we were achievement whores.) It was a bit annoying because every hour so I kept getting interrupted by real life stuff and had go to bed for work in the morning and so on...

I finally get it all completed and I'm standing there looking through my achievements lists seeing what I might still need then.....

Death.

"Achievement Earned - Stood in the Fire"

My guild laughed hysterically at me. I had no idea there was even an achievement for this. I had heard people talking about Deathwing killing people but I totally missed the part where/when it happened. I was like.. OMG, what just happened! Why am I dead?!!  The laughter over Vent was hysterical.

I just wanted to share that little funny nublette moment of mine.



@Glyph - I don't wear any rose colored glassed about WoW. None at all. I don't feel like it was all sunshine and lollipops and everything was perfect. I just feel like the humor that existed before has been blown out of proportion. There was humor in it before but now that things like the Goblins and Gnomes have spread their stupid little silly humor into every corner it's become absurdly slapstick. Now they are even making cinematics with humor in them. I pointed out clearly the difference in my previous posts on this topic *points up*   

The game story has changed in new directions and not for the better in my opinion.

I wasn't some 12 year old kid that enjoyed silly humor when I started playing WoW. I was well into my 20's when Vanilla WoW was launched. I thankfully missed the initial growing pains of the game and didn't join until not long before Burning Crusade was launched. But I was there long enough and adult enough to see the game clearly. I had already played other MMORPG's before and I have played close to a dozen since it.

Simply, they've gone over the top with the humor factor. To much schtick is to much. They need to reign it in and give us a World of War!craft again. I like my fantasy stories with a lot of action, drama and just a dash of humor. It feels like you can't do a single quest now in the new stuff without their being some funny character or some funny joke. It's just to much.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2012, 09:52:39 AM by Moraline »

Offline Question Mark

Re: New World of Warcraft cinematic for Panderia
« Reply #99 on: August 31, 2012, 12:50:56 PM »
The humor is, I think, one of WoW's defining characteristics.  It's exaggerated style, it's slapstick moments, over-the-top ham... It's just the style WoW was made in.  You can still take a story seriously, even if it is chock full of humor.

WoW's never been one for grimdark or cynicism.  Not liking WoW because it hasn't become grimdark or cynical is like not liking American Idol because each season focuses more and more on the singers.  In other words, you shouldn't have even liked it to begin with.