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Author Topic: Deus Ex brings up an interesting question...namely, would you augment yourself?  (Read 2055 times)

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Offline Deci

If it were new technology I definitely wouldn't want to be using my body as an experiment, but after it has been tested and people have been using it for a while I might look into it. Assuming it was legal, practical, and effective technology.

Offline Sabby

As I said in the gaming topic, the issue really that balanced to begin with. I mean, the only way to keep the two sides level was to add in the Rejection Syndrome. Thats about the only real, tangible complaint the Anti-Aug side has. The rest is a lot more dicey, like 'we're changing what it means to be human', or 'you have to Augment to keep up in life'.

Offline Brandon

As I said in the gaming topic, the issue really that balanced to begin with. I mean, the only way to keep the two sides level was to add in the Rejection Syndrome. Thats about the only real, tangible complaint the Anti-Aug side has. The rest is a lot more dicey, like 'we're changing what it means to be human', or 'you have to Augment to keep up in life'.

The idea of changing what it means to be human seems to fall flat but I think the "you have to augment to keep up in life" is a legitimate concern. Remember how Malik, the pilot, had some "subtle" augmentations to help her fly? What if such augments were required by the company, or military, or any section of work? Pilots who wouldnt want to chance the potential medical problems would be completely out of work. Likely with nothing to fall back on (there arent that many pilots out there). It wouldnt be a matter of how much experience or training you have, no augs would mean no job

Offline Samael

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As I said in the gaming topic, the issue really that balanced to begin with. I mean, the only way to keep the two sides level was to add in the Rejection Syndrome. Thats about the only real, tangible complaint the Anti-Aug side has. The rest is a lot more dicey, like 'we're changing what it means to be human', or 'you have to Augment to keep up in life'.

I do not think the Rejection Syndrome was what was supposed to keep the sides level.
I think the fact that these augmentations allow someone to remote control humans is what brings up the concern here.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
The illuminati tried to have a killswitch built into the designs, and it was shown earlier within the game that they could insert routines and programs that make humans act against what they want, in effect turning them into puppets.
That was the danger that came with it.

Offline Sabby

That's not so much an issue with the idea of Augmentation, it was injected into the plot the same as the drug addiction. If it's the case, however, yeah, that's a legitimate concern, but its not one that's ever going to appear in a debating hall, so the public won't be able to weigh it up with the rest of the points. If, however, someone deduced it was possible, then it's a design issue, not an issue inherent in ALL augmentations. These ones have the issue, Augmentation as a whole does not.

Besides, the real problem is Dogmentation, since it's not patented yet.

Offline badsam

I've just started the game, but I'm a big fun of the first Deus Ex. Well there were a little aspect that I would like to listen about from others... augmentation makes human target for obsolescence? I mean... what would you do if your cybernetic eye will become "old", like a cellphone, or a PC?
to be honest, this question is really puzzling me, and a bit scares me. And you? what do you think about?

Offline Stone

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I've just started the game, but I'm a big fun of the first Deus Ex. Well there were a little aspect that I would like to listen about from others... augmentation makes human target for obsolescence? I mean... what would you do if your cybernetic eye will become "old", like a cellphone, or a PC?
to be honest, this question is really puzzling me, and a bit scares me. And you? what do you think about?

I think you should play Human Revolution through to the end. That question isn't exactly answered, but there's a much more plausible threat than equipment getting old explored there.

Offline AndyZ

Sabby already made the point I wanted to make about adding in Rejection Syndrome.  I feel that the writers threw that in as a plot point simply so that the pro- and anti- camps could have a little more balance.

Something I didn't like about the game endings:
Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
In the game itself, I disliked how the endings didn't actually go through the stories and how things would end up.  Instead, they went on some chatter about life and why people would make such a choice, but without the chance to weigh the pros and cons of such decisions.


I've just started the game, but I'm a big fun of the first Deus Ex. Well there were a little aspect that I would like to listen about from others... augmentation makes human target for obsolescence? I mean... what would you do if your cybernetic eye will become "old", like a cellphone, or a PC?
to be honest, this question is really puzzling me, and a bit scares me. And you? what do you think about?

This comes up an awful lot in Shadowrun, something that I feel you would appreciate looking into.

The idea of changing what it means to be human seems to fall flat but I think the "you have to augment to keep up in life" is a legitimate concern. Remember how Malik, the pilot, had some "subtle" augmentations to help her fly? What if such augments were required by the company, or military, or any section of work? Pilots who wouldnt want to chance the potential medical problems would be completely out of work. Likely with nothing to fall back on (there arent that many pilots out there). It wouldnt be a matter of how much experience or training you have, no augs would mean no job

Personally, in such an environment, I'd be all for a law that says that you don't have to get augmented if you don't want to be.  Even if you're not as "better" without being augmented, as long as there is class inequality, there will be people who won't be able to afford the "premium," in the same way that people still take trains while planes exist.

I think that there needs to be a lot more downside to stuff like this if you want to have a higher anti- camp.  But, since that's the subject of my novel, I'll leave it at that.

Offline Brandon

I think that there needs to be a lot more downside to stuff like this if you want to have a higher anti- camp.  But, since that's the subject of my novel, I'll leave it at that.
 

To be fair, I never really felt like they drove home the medical problems with augmentation. The most we see is a guy hobbling along with a doctor/nurse helping them when Jensen first enters the first LIMB clinic.

Now there are mentions of nueropozin addiction, rejection syndrome, and other stuff but we didnt see any of that. It was there but I guess I feel like we didnt really experience the problems like we did the benefits (by just playing Jensen)

Offline Sabby

Majority of the game happens off screen, though :P Rejection syndrome? Meh, too busy staring at augmented hookers. What's that, massive anti-augmentation riots all over the city?! Meh, robo-hookers =3

Offline Kenshin

Not only would I, but I plan on it if it is ever possible. My left arm is numb and my left hand is as well because of nerve damage, and I want it replaced.

Offline ExisD

I know that I would probably go for a full body replacement, ala Ghost in the Shell's cyborgs, when it became reliable. I'd expect I would go for it on the second wave of models, though I suppose the fact that it would be about the only means of my being in a body that felt right plays a part in that.

Early on I wouldn't even mind if the replacements were obviously mechanical, though I would want to keep a human form as much as I could. At least at first, I'm not sure how much my outlook on form would change as a result.

Before that, well the only serious augmentations I'd want are better cardio-vascular, heart disease runs in the family, and digestive systems, more efficiency in nutrient absorption would be wonderful.

As for the games, I haven't actually played the new Deus Ex. Even so I've watched a bit of a friend running through it and think they underestimated the social issues with augmented humans running around. I don't see a very large number of people opting to replace their limbs unless something is damaged/less functional. Especially since the cost is likely to be significant for a long time given the need to upgrade to more advanced models if you want to keep up.