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Author Topic: I Was With You Right Up Until That Last Bit  (Read 3657 times)

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Offline Sabby

Re: I Was With You Right Up Until That Last Bit
« Reply #25 on: June 04, 2011, 08:07:12 AM »
Relax Brandon, for every Christian out there who has to watch their theology get stamped into the mud, there's an Atheist somewhere seeing The Church of Science defaced just as badly.

Offline Malefique

Re: I Was With You Right Up Until That Last Bit
« Reply #26 on: June 04, 2011, 04:15:41 PM »

Imagine if your beliefs were constantly being misunderstood or attacked, you go out of your way to try and educate people as best you can and in response you are treated like a complete idiot and your factual evidence is completely ignored. Thats where Im at right now and I hate it. I hate coming here all the time and feeling like there is an idealogical war going on against my beliefs. I hate feeling like each day as a part of the community it is a harder trial with so few moments of joy. I hate feeling like everyone gets their say but mine is largely ignored. I hate going out of my way to show proper respect to everyone elses points of view and beliefs but to recieve none in return. Most of all I hate being at odds with everyone else, people how are supposed to be my online friends and family. My frustration with P&R is not because all of this stuff happens, its because it happens all the time.

Sorry, Brandon, I'm not attacking your beliefs - I think it's great if a person has something that makes their life better for them, and even more so if it makes them behave in a better way to others.  But sadly, organised religion is used by a great many people to oppress and dominate others.  Zakharra is right, they would find something to use if religion did not give them a tool; look at the Nazis, for one.  But it does make it easier.  And I'm also sorry, but I am going to point out things that don't add up or make sense.  The whole coveting thing, for instance; I'm not misinterpreting it, however you translate and interpret it, it lays down that it is against God's law  to want something that belongs to another person.    Oh, and be grateful that you're a modern Christian, Brandon, and not a pagan any time up to the nineteenth century, because those people got killed for their faith (by Christians, Muslims and possibly Jews too), not argued with or ignored. 

Offline MasterMischief

Re: I Was With You Right Up Until That Last Bit
« Reply #27 on: June 04, 2011, 04:49:31 PM »
I dont go out of my way to find offense to anything, I come across things like this thread I read them and I just do take offense.

You honestly think you are going to find non-controversial threads in the Politics and Religion section?  Srsly?

Imagine if your beliefs were constantly being misunderstood or attacked...

They are.

...you go out of your way to try and educate people as best you can...

No, I don't.  And maybe that is cause of your frustration.

I hate coming here all the time and feeling like there is an idealogical war going on against my beliefs.

The obvious solution is to remove yourself from the situation.  Why must you educate anyone about anything?  How is your perspective any more valid than anyone else's?

I hate feeling like everyone gets their say but mine is largely ignored.

You may be able to claim a lot of things, but being ignored is not one of them.  There is a difference between convincing someone and being ignored.

I hate going out of my way to show proper respect to everyone elses points of view and beliefs but to recieve none in return.

By 'respect' do you mean silence?  You can not possibly respect everyone's beliefs.  So where do you draw the line?

Most of all I hate being at odds with everyone else, people how are supposed to be my online friends and family.

It sounds like you need to do some soul searching, Brandon.  Why do you think everyone is at odds with you?  If you are right and everyone else is wrong, why continue to associate with them?

I do not want you to leave Brandon.  I would not tell you what to do, that is not my place.  But I do think you need to ask yourself what you are really doing here.  What do you hope to accomplish, if anything?  If you hate coming into P&R every time, why do you keep coming back?  Why should religion in general and your beliefs in particular be off limits for humor?  If someone professed to believe in Zeus are Zeus jokes off limits then?  There would be no humor at all then because someone might get offended.

Offline Shjade

Re: I Was With You Right Up Until That Last Bit
« Reply #28 on: June 04, 2011, 07:11:01 PM »
By 'respect' do you mean silence?  You can not possibly respect everyone's beliefs.  So where do you draw the line?
Wait, what? Why not?

You don't have to agree with someone's ideas to respect them.

Offline Will

Re: I Was With You Right Up Until That Last Bit
« Reply #29 on: June 05, 2011, 10:57:38 AM »
If I believe that organized religion is a cancer on society, and that it would be better for everyone if it were removed as soon as possible, that belief is a fundamental attack on someone else's beliefs.  That makes mutual respect somewhat difficult, I think.  Just stating the reasons why I believe that would lead to responses of "oh no, not THAT again," and "you're not respecting my faith."

So I'm not sure respect is what's really being sought, here.  It's special treatment.  My beliefs step on your beliefs, so mine should be stifled.  Because your beliefs came from a holy book, they can't be questioned or dismissed or made light of.  Because I arrived at my beliefs instead through long consideration and personal experience, they get no special treatment.  I should keep quiet when I disagree, because the reasons for my beliefs are uncomfortable or tiresome or unfair to you.

So maybe you aren't the only one who's frustrated, Brandon.

Offline Silk

Re: I Was With You Right Up Until That Last Bit
« Reply #30 on: June 05, 2011, 03:47:09 PM »
Relax Brandon, for every Christian out there who has to watch their theology get stamped into the mud, there's an Atheist somewhere seeing The Church of Science defaced just as badly.
I'd love to see these examples, as well as your definition of religion if your equating science as one.

Offline Noelle

Re: I Was With You Right Up Until That Last Bit
« Reply #31 on: June 05, 2011, 04:10:02 PM »
I think he may be referring to science as it is sometimes treated by especially militant atheists...Many of them misuse it as something to beat other people with mercilessly and with as much zeal as Bible-beaters often do.

We'd all do well to remember that science is a method of understanding reality and not some kind of monolithic monster with a sinister motive to destroy religion.

Offline MasterMischief

Re: I Was With You Right Up Until That Last Bit
« Reply #32 on: June 07, 2011, 06:34:39 PM »
Intelligent Design was the first thing to pop into my mind, but I do not speak for Sabby.

Offline Sabby

Re: I Was With You Right Up Until That Last Bit
« Reply #33 on: June 07, 2011, 06:38:59 PM »
The Church of Science... a little term I picked up from The Dresden Files. Basically refers to science being the dominant power of the modern age, much like the Catholic Church was in the Dark Ages, and how the similar the two are. Like Noelle said, Militant Athiests flog their own creed as hard as the Militant Christians do.

Offline Silk

Re: I Was With You Right Up Until That Last Bit
« Reply #34 on: June 08, 2011, 07:05:46 AM »
Oh yes that vicious Dark age science, with their burning at the steak of women, or the holy crusades for a peice of land they claim is theirs by holy mandate, or missionaries with a convert or die philisophy, or the outright attempt to keep education and learning of the populace to a minimum so they are easier to control. Yep that science is so much like dark age catholosism its not even funny.

Also got to watch out for that militant creed of a single overlying mandate of "No belief in god" with their 10 commandments, while we pray to the great carl sagan, or the divine darwin. "Peace be upon him" After all we all know that it was Stalins athiesm and not his communism that caused the issue. Just as much as him having a moustache was the cause for genocide. While preaching that if you don't follow the holy mandate of science, you will suffer a never ending torture while being molested by the great evil science overlord.

But its ok, as long as you have the unwavering beleif in all things science has to say, regardless of the evidence or lack there of to support all theorys, you will go to the great science heaven, which the god science will allow you to bask in his glory, with darkwin being the effectual prophet of the great science, he died for our sins, so you best be thankful for that, you did nothing wrong but your a bad person who darwin saved you back in his age. You just have to accept the great divine darwin, and all of his beleifs and methodologies.

Not forgetting that the great science sends out their science priests to all corners of the word, to spread the great science, and since we are all sciences children, even though many have defects. you are "allowed" to persecute those people even though thats how the great science made them to be. And you get a free pass on all bigoted beleifs because of the great science preaches that these defects must be shunned and bullied. But since the great science has the divine mandate on morality, you get a free pass, after all, the great science said so. You can get all the benefits of the great science by donating 10% of your income to the nearest science church on the great thursday, so you can help fund the great gothic buildings and increase the powerbase of the great science, and be in the great sciences good books, but really, all you need to do is beleive in the great science really really hard, then you can prevent yourself from suffering endless anal molestation by the evil science lord.

Sorry for the rant but people claiming that religion and science are similar really irritates me.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2011, 07:14:50 AM by Silk »

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: I Was With You Right Up Until That Last Bit
« Reply #35 on: June 08, 2011, 08:09:03 AM »
You've been watching South park, haven't you?

Offline Silk

Re: I Was With You Right Up Until That Last Bit
« Reply #36 on: June 08, 2011, 08:11:55 AM »
Can't say I have, should I have been?

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: I Was With You Right Up Until That Last Bit
« Reply #37 on: June 08, 2011, 08:14:16 AM »
You just reminded me of one episode where...Stan? freezes himself and ends up in the far future, where the earth was ruled by two militant clans of atheists who fought in the name of Science and said daily prayers to Carl Sagan, killing each other in huge crusade-like wars to prove that their science was the true science.

Offline Starlequin

Re: I Was With You Right Up Until That Last Bit
« Reply #38 on: June 08, 2011, 10:50:27 AM »
Cartman. And dont forget the otters.

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: I Was With You Right Up Until That Last Bit
« Reply #39 on: June 08, 2011, 11:11:13 AM »
Oh yeah, the otters. I honestly can't tell Stan, Cartman, and Kyle apart unless I'm looking at them, so forgive me that one.