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Author Topic: League of Legends  (Read 143587 times)

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Offline Shjade

Re: League of Legends
« Reply #300 on: May 26, 2012, 10:31:35 AM »
I wouldn't say there's general consensus about Darius being OP, more that the usual cycle is taking place:

- New champion is released.
- Forums cry new champion is OP/UP.
- Everyone gets used to new champion and stops complaining now that they better understand how to deal with it.
- New champion gets nerfed/buffed anyway.
- Repeat.

Offline SinXAzgard21

Re: League of Legends
« Reply #301 on: May 26, 2012, 11:38:52 AM »
I agree with Shjade.

Though I need to add, he has no ranged at all and no get away or cc breaker.  I think giving him a refresh is fine but if you want to utilize it you need to be sorta tanky other wise you are a suicide diver.... Which I do a lot to take one or two with me.  And honestly saying his passive is an issue isn't really a point of argument... Look at effing Teemo.  I am not looking to start a fight just giving my opinion on how I view Darius.

Offline Shjade

Re: League of Legends
« Reply #302 on: May 26, 2012, 12:05:13 PM »
Honestly, out of all the complaints about Darius I've seen, the concern about his passive seems the most valid.

1 - Teemo's poison is his E, not his passive. Darius gets Hemo in addition to his QWER skill set.
2 - Teemo has to stack AP to increase its damage, meaning his basic attacks aren't very strong paired with it; if he builds AD, his poison damage is barely noticeable. Darius' passive scales off of AD (though it deals magic damage, which is a mixed blessing: it means stacking armor against him won't protect you from his passive's damage, but it also means the huge amount of armor penetration he has doesn't help his passive do more damage to you), meaning as he builds for mass damage his hemo gets beefed up to the point of ticking for hundreds of damage as well.
3 - Teemo's poison doesn't give him a speed boost when it's on someone. Darius gets +5% movespeed for every champ that's bleeding; this doesn't really help him escape, but it adds vital utility to an already surprisingly high-damage passive.
4 - Teemo's poison only activates on basic attacks. Darius' bleed stacks on you anytime he damages you with anything (note: his E (the pull) does no damage, so this doesn't add a bleed stack).

Point being, Teemo's poison is a pittance compared to Darius' passive.

Just for the sake of details, some numbers:

Teemo's E:
Magic Damage on Hit: 9 / 18 / 27 / 36 / 45 (+0.14 per ability power)
Magic Damage per Second: 6 / 12 / 18 / 24 / 30 (+0.14 per ability power)

So at max rank, shooting you once (UND ONLY VONCE) deals (45 +0.14AP) + ((30+0.14AP) x4) damage. So with an average Teemo build (Malady, Wriggle's Lantern, Frozen Mallet, Bloodrazor, Wit's End, let's say), his poison deals 48.5 + 33.5 x 4 (Total: 182.5) magic damage per shot. Not terrible for an auto-attack booster, right?

Darius' Innate:
Darius' basic attacks and damaging abilities cause enemies to bleed for 12 / 15 / 18 / 21 / 24 / 27 / 30 / 33 / 36 (+0.4 per bonus attack damage) magic damage over 5 seconds, stacking up to 5 times.
Darius gains 5% movement speed for each bleeding enemy champion.

So at max rank, hitting you once does only 36 +0.4AD damage, and it takes 5 seconds to do that tiny amount of damage. If he hits you 5 times, however, it's doing 180 damage over those 5 seconds. Keep in mind, that's without ANY AD - it's already doing about as much damage as Teemo's E does with a pretty standard on-hit build completed. Let's say Darius actually has some items he'd want (average tanky dps build: Warmog's, Atma's Impaler, Bloodthirster...actually let's just stop there with three items). I'm not going to screw around with the health->damage conversion of Atma's so I'll just be conservative and say it's only giving him 44 AD, so he has 144 bonus AD.

Now if he hits you once, Hemo deals 93.6 magic damage over 5 seconds. If he hits you twice (which is pretty much guaranteed, since if he can hit you once he can hit you with any of his other abilities right away, whether it's Q->E->AA or AA->W or AA->Q or whatever), Hemo deals 187.2 over 5 seconds - already more than one shot of Teemo's poison. If he gets the full 5 stacks Hemo does 468 damage over 5 seconds. And this is with only two AD items in his build.

Yeah, I think concern about his passive is fair. Would I call it OP? No, but it's certainly damn strong.

Offline Brandon

Re: League of Legends
« Reply #303 on: May 27, 2012, 12:17:00 AM »
I dunno, if Passives are suppossed to be less powerful then abilities like teemo and fizz's dots then I think it is a little overpowered. If Passives are supposed to be about equal in power then I would call his strong. He certainly feels overpowered to me but I cant say for a fact he is right now.

However Im going to stand by what I said earlier with his execute ability. Having it refresh each time it kills a champion is pretty OP for an execute ability. If it absolutely has to be something able to be used in quick succession then make it it able to be used 5 times in 5 seconds before going on cooldown and on that note give it a long cooldown. Comparing it to the only other execute ability I can think of off the top of my head (garen's demacian justice). It should be on a much longer cooldown. Garen's ult at highest rank is 100 seconds for cooldown (140 at first rank) but not only Does darius refresh its on a smaller cooldown at 100 seconds for first rank

Offline Shjade

Re: League of Legends
« Reply #304 on: May 27, 2012, 12:48:32 AM »
Feast, Cho'gath's ultimate, does 650 +0.7 AP True damage. With max cooldown reduction, it has a 36 second cooldown. So sure, he wouldn't be able to spam it across a teamfight, but it's pretty much good to go whenever he catches someone in a position to feast them, for practical purposes.

As for whether innate abilities are supposed to be strong or not, some champions have really useful ones (Cassi's mana reduction stacks, Morg's spell vamp, Poppy's why-won't-she-fucking-die, etc.), and others are...not so much (Evelynn takes 50% reduced damage from minions. No, seriously, that's her innate ability.). I was only comparing Darius' innate to Teemo's E because Azgard brought him up, and to provide comparison for just how strong Darius' hemo is when combined with his usual build and kit. Fizz's DoT is probably stronger than Darius' given Fizz builds heavy AP and it scales much harder than Teemo's (and it gets stronger against targets who are already hurt); AP Teemo is not nearly as dangerous as either AP Fizz or AD Darius, and even building heavy AP his poison is still not very impressive damage. It gets the job done, but it's just not threatening in the way theirs are.

Offline Brandon

Re: League of Legends
« Reply #305 on: May 27, 2012, 12:54:18 AM »
The issue I see with feast is it really isnt an execute ability. It can be used that way but I dont think thats the purpose. I play Cho quite a bit and I find if you build him AP heavy a rupture, scream, and 2 auto attacks will take out anyone except the tankiest of champions

Besides Feast also gives cho extra health. Its not made purely to kill an opponent

Offline Shjade

Re: League of Legends
« Reply #306 on: May 27, 2012, 01:15:19 AM »
The issue I see with feast is it really isnt an execute ability.

Besides Feast also gives cho extra health. Its not made purely to kill an opponent

Feast only gives you extra health if it kills something, which is why it's an execute ability.

Offline ofDelusions

Re: League of Legends
« Reply #307 on: May 27, 2012, 03:14:31 AM »
The most annoying thing about Darius is the way his ulti works means that if he uses it all the time, then he is th eonly on to get kills in team fights, potentially causing his teams AD carry to become underfed.

As someone who often plays AD carries, I'd rather have someone else than Darius in my team.

Offline Shjade

Re: League of Legends
« Reply #308 on: May 27, 2012, 01:03:41 PM »
Indeed, a Darius player needs to exercise discretion with his executions to spread the love around.

Also, while kills reset the cooldown, people seem to overlook the ability's mana cost. It's 100 mana per cast, and his mana supply is pretty low (something like 650 at level 18?). This means that unless he gets some mana (not generally something you want on a carry or tanky dps, though a Banshee Veil isn't a bad choice), he can't really spam his ult through a whole teamfight unless he's pretty fresh into the fight or has someone feeding him mana. It's sort of a "soft cooldown" beyond the actual timer to somewhat limit how often he can chain-cast.

Offline Translucent Bard

Re: League of Legends
« Reply #309 on: June 02, 2012, 11:34:34 PM »
Hey, long time league player here. Just popping in to drop off my summoner name and to offer myself to anyone who wants to play a few games! I've been 30 since the game was first released, so I'm pretty okay :-P

Summoner name SinfireJt (I know its lame, but I just typed something three years ago, oh well) PM me or shoot me an invite in game! Happy slaying, friends.

Offline SinXAzgard21

Re: League of Legends
« Reply #310 on: June 05, 2012, 09:51:41 PM »
So, this weeks 99th champion is Draven the Glorious Executioner.... I'm not sure what to think of this guy, I have Darius and he is okay, I use him in one or two games if I play at all during the day.  So I was just wondering if anyone is going to pick him up or wait for number 100.

Offline Brandon

Re: League of Legends
« Reply #311 on: June 05, 2012, 09:58:14 PM »
He looks pretty uninspired so no I dont think Ill burn the 6300 IP till after I play him. I kind of wish I had done the same for Darius but thats what I get for breaking my own rule of "play a champion before you buy them"

Offline Changingsaint

Re: League of Legends
« Reply #312 on: June 05, 2012, 10:01:38 PM »
Draven looks fun as fuck and I'm definitely buying his bundle - His second skin is great. He looks pretty difficult to play though.

Sadly however I am boycotting league for another 2 weeks since the Normal draft mode fix still isn't going through.

Offline Shjade

Re: League of Legends
« Reply #313 on: June 06, 2012, 03:21:50 AM »
I might pick up Darius solely for the reason that he's hilarious to play against the AI. They tend to turn and run at JUST the moment his execution will kill them. Hilarity ensues.

Draven, on the other hand? Eh...I have a number of ranged AD already, and looking at his kit in the spotlight I'm 100% sure he's going to get some kind of nerfing within three weeks of his release (he doesn't look OP to me, but I guarantee the QQ will be strong in the forums over a ranged AD with permanent haste, long-range multi-target CC and a global damage ult), so even if I were planning to pick him up I'd wait to see how heavy the nerfbat comes down on him first.

Offline SinXAzgard21

Re: League of Legends
« Reply #314 on: June 09, 2012, 09:13:23 PM »
Mundo and wukong seem to be where I've sorta made my home on champions.   I like them, they are fun, though I do love Ziggs and Fiddle as well.  I really need to play Fiddle sometime.

Offline Samael

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Re: League of Legends
« Reply #315 on: June 10, 2012, 11:45:46 PM »
I can't, for the life of me, figure Mundo out.
I have him since ages, decided to try jungling with him and had to B every round because I was running out of HP.
It was annoying.

Apparently the next Champion is named "Jayce" and he's lightning based, by the way.

Offline SinXAzgard21

Re: League of Legends
« Reply #316 on: June 11, 2012, 12:57:24 AM »
I can't, for the life of me, figure Mundo out.
I have him since ages, decided to try jungling with him and had to B every round because I was running out of HP.
It was annoying.

Apparently the next Champion is named "Jayce" and he's lightning based, by the way.

I don't jungle as mundo, I play top and end up with near 300 hp per 5 along with decent Armor and MR.

Offline Brandon

Re: League of Legends
« Reply #317 on: June 11, 2012, 01:12:10 AM »
I can't, for the life of me, figure Mundo out.
I have him since ages, decided to try jungling with him and had to B every round because I was running out of HP.
It was annoying.

Apparently the next Champion is named "Jayce" and he's lightning based, by the way.

I have never played Mundo but from what I have gathered its best to stack HP on him but you also need quite a bit of regen or lifesteal. Lifesteal is easilyl handled with a bloodthirster and the best health regen item is Force of nature. You might try one of those (or both).

So I purchased my newest champion tonight. Riven. Theres something about the fighter champions that I really enjoy. The first one I purchased and loved was Wukong, then there was Jax, and now Ive got Riven for my solo top laning. The kicker is Im far better at support and mages like Lux, Malzahar, and Ahri

Offline SinXAzgard21

Re: League of Legends
« Reply #318 on: June 11, 2012, 01:18:12 AM »
I have never played Mundo but from what I have gathered its best to stack HP on him but you also need quite a bit of regen or lifesteal. Lifesteal is easilyl handled with a bloodthirster and the best health regen item is Force of nature. You might try one of those (or both).

So I purchased my newest champion tonight. Riven. Theres something about the fighter champions that I really enjoy. The first one I purchased and loved was Wukong, then there was Jax, and now Ive got Riven for my solo top laning. The kicker is Im far better at support and mages like Lux, Malzahar, and Ahri


I have, warmog, FoN, Impaler, Mercs, Frozen Mallet, last item is either wrigglers or another warmog.  FoN is a good investment or Spirit Vessage+Juggernaut... Yeah you can heal tons... but mind that you will get focused.

Offline SinXAzgard21

Re: League of Legends
« Reply #319 on: June 11, 2012, 03:04:15 PM »
So something I noticed about the new patch leak is the ARAM map for custom games. 

EDIT: ARAM stands for All random all mid.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2012, 07:36:18 PM by SinXAzgard21 »

Offline Samael

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Re: League of Legends
« Reply #320 on: June 12, 2012, 11:53:04 PM »
I wish that was possible for me, but jungle leaves me gold starved.
It seems guides tell me to go the regular route of Heart of Gold and Philo stone, but while I can get them, I still bleed life like hell.
I guess Mundo just doesn't click for me.
Not that bad though, since then I realized my love for Jungle Cho, who, literally never, will fall below 80% health in the jungle.
Hell, mostly I'm full health past level 5. Plus, with the Jurassic skin, he's absolutely awesome.

Oh, I also found that I greatly enjoy the Ashe/Blitz combo.
You hook em in as Blitz, and thanks to the slow they'll never ever escape anymore.
Graves works too, but I find Ashe's ulti/utility more useful in a team.

Offline Shjade

Re: League of Legends
« Reply #321 on: June 13, 2012, 01:03:40 AM »
I like Ashe/Blitz as well, but people always beg me not to play Ashe when I have a Blitz support because she's "not an aggressive champion."

*sigh*

Offline Changingsaint

Re: League of Legends
« Reply #322 on: June 13, 2012, 02:01:55 AM »
To be fair, Ashe really isn't aggressive. She's not a cait or graves, who can either poke at you from range or blast you in your face. Were I supporting an Ashe, i'd pick a champ like Janna or Soraka who promotes safe farming.

Mind you, when I support I don't trust anyone to play aggressive :p Since like... 6/10 times, I notice aggressive bottom lanes seem to lose hard. Just too risy in solo queue without better communication.

Offline Brandon

Re: League of Legends
« Reply #323 on: June 13, 2012, 02:14:40 AM »
Ashe can be played just as aggressive as any other carry. I personally find Tristana to work best for an aggressive carry. I cant stand Cait. Anyone with knowledge of Cait can easily avoid her pokes and traps. Graves is harder due to his quick dash in and shotgun to the face

Personally I say play what you want, as long as you play well then it doesnt matter what champ you play as

Offline Changingsaint

Re: League of Legends
« Reply #324 on: June 13, 2012, 02:18:31 AM »

Personally I say play what you want, as long as you play well then it doesnt matter what champ you play as

Pretty much this is the golden rule. Play what you're good at. But don't be afraid of learning new things - Cuz you'll have to.

...Now if only I were actually good at anything other than supports when I can play :p.