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Author Topic: Video Games are officially recognized as an Art form.  (Read 10935 times)

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Offline WolfyTopic starter

Video Games are officially recognized as an Art form.
« on: May 06, 2011, 04:48:46 AM »
http://gaming.icrontic.com/article/nea-video-games-are-an-art-form/

Oooh, it is a great day indeed.

:D Thoughts, opinions?

I think this has been a long time coming, really...but what changes will it bring to the industry and video games as a whole?

Offline Aurora Wayland

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Re: Video Games are officially recognized as an Art form.
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2011, 10:59:02 AM »
About time. Woo!

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Video Games are officially recognized as an Art form.
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2011, 11:36:51 AM »
I like one of the comments..

"Eat a dick, Ebert!"


Offline WolfyTopic starter

Re: Video Games are officially recognized as an Art form.
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2011, 12:06:00 PM »
So...Since Video Games are considered an Art Form, how could this effect things like Censorship and the like?

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: Video Games are officially recognized as an Art form.
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2011, 01:39:15 PM »
Modern museums will now have all the classic Renaissance paintings with naked women hidden away in a T-rated gallery that requires a separate admission ticket.

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Re: Video Games are officially recognized as an Art form.
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2011, 02:08:30 PM »
The text version of Dante's Inferno would be rated M for Mature.

Offline CmdrRenegade

Re: Video Games are officially recognized as an Art form.
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2011, 02:32:34 PM »
I like one of the comments..

"Eat a dick, Ebert!"

To be fair, the guy did recant his position.

http://blogs.suntimes.com/ebert/2010/07/okay_kids_play_on_my_lawn.html

Offline Will

Re: Video Games are officially recognized as an Art form.
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2011, 09:41:15 PM »
Well, he didn't really.  He just said that he could be proven wrong at some point in the future.  And that he regretted touching the subject in the first place.

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Re: Video Games are officially recognized as an Art form.
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2011, 09:51:37 PM »
I think this has been a long time coming, really...but what changes will it bring to the industry and video games as a whole?

Actually, I'm thinking (or... hoping) 'serious', more traditional artists will try this form of art, too. I would love to see that happen.
And, games being recognized as art would make it less of an obstacle to venture out and into this branch without having the art world fall over the exploring artist.

*is slightly rambling, sorry*

Anyway. Yes, more interested on the impact this may or may not have on the art world, than it will have on the gaming industry >.>'
« Last Edit: May 06, 2011, 09:54:32 PM by Saerra »

Offline Shjade

Re: Video Games are officially recognized as an Art form.
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2011, 11:00:13 PM »
Well, he didn't really.  He just said that he could be proven wrong at some point in the future.  And that he regretted touching the subject in the first place.
Pretty accurate. He did make a respectable effort toward examining his previous position and why he made the statements he did. Maybe he didn't reverse his position or even entirely remove it (he notes still holding his previous opinion, simply in a less vocal capacity), but at least he reasoned out why he holds that position in a manner that is completely understandable. I don't hold it against him. I don't even think it's a "he's too old" issue; it's just not for him. Nothing appeals to everyone.

Offline Funguy81

Re: Video Games are officially recognized as an Art form.
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2011, 01:30:46 AM »
Hehe, I just did my persuasive speech on this subject for my speech class. :grins: It should have been considered an artform long ago.

Offline Arcadia

Re: Video Games are officially recognized as an Art form.
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2011, 04:03:47 AM »
!!!

Art grants for game design, who would of thought? As an aspiring game designer, perhaps I'll be able to take advantage of this and become an actual game designer. Then again, I don't have especially arty development goals. But you never know

Offline rick957

Re: Video Games are officially recognized as an Art form.
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2011, 04:25:02 PM »
Here's a question related to the thread topic, for those of you who have played lots of video games ...

If you think that certain video games have value as works of art ...

And, if you have been exposed to great works of art in other mediums (besides video games) ...

Can you argue that the artistic value of certain video games is comparable to the artistic value of certain works in other mediums?

It would help if you would cite specific examples of each -- that is, a video game and a non-video game with comparable artistic merits -- and talk about the impact of each work on you personally.

What I'm curious about is whether people who have had exposure to great works of art can find comparable artistic value in video games, or if those who think video games have artistic merits do so only because they have too little experience with great art from other fields.

Any responses will be much appreciated.  :)

Oh wait, and one other question, regarding the article from the top post:  is anyone out there really comfortable with the idea that your tax dollars could go towards the development of a video game?  I'd really like to hear a thoughtful defense of that position, which I consider somewhat surprising.

P.S. I'm not hating on video games here; I honestly don't know much about them.  My personal favorite kinds of art are ones that are routinely looked down upon or considered too lowbrow or common to be art.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2011, 04:26:53 PM by rick957 »

Offline Yorubi

Re: Video Games are officially recognized as an Art form.
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2011, 05:40:22 PM »
Considering what things are considered art, I don't see how they couldn't be.

Honestly putting a value on different styles of art to me just seems silly. It would like like comparing the poster of a movie with the movie itself in terms of relaying its message. The picture would be greatly hindered from what it can tell from the movie. They all of their own traits behind them that make them great.

Offline Will

Re: Video Games are officially recognized as an Art form.
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2011, 08:30:23 PM »
rick957 - In response to your first question, absolutely not.  I don't think even the best of video games compares to most other kinds of art.  Not even close.  I don't think that has much bearing on whether or not they qualify as art, of course.  They're just really, really primitive and unrealized in that sense.

So, in response to your second question, I think funding offers a chance for them to actually take steps in that direction, to be more fully realized as an art form.  Not just acknowledged on the basis of semantics, which changes absolutely nothing.

Offline Shjade

Re: Video Games are officially recognized as an Art form.
« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2011, 08:31:47 PM »
Can you argue that the artistic value of certain video games is comparable to the artistic value of certain works in other mediums?
Define "artistic value" and show me the metric used for calculating it.

If it's subjective, the question is meaningless. Yes, you can argue whatever you like, but there's no point if it's purely opinion.

Offline PfefferKuchen

Re: Video Games are officially recognized as an Art form.
« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2011, 04:08:53 AM »
I knew video games were art all the way back when we decided whoever lost at mario 3 battle game got punched by the winner. It was a reflection on adolescent culture and the place of the pow block in urban society.

NEA grants for games is a big step but it might be just in time for all of our grants to get budget-slashed.

Offline rick957

Re: Video Games are officially recognized as an Art form.
« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2011, 09:40:10 PM »
Will -- thanks for the responses.  I wonder if your views are the most common ones around here.  My guess is that most people don't mind the idea of video games being considered art, though some may at least concede that they would be in a very primitive stage in terms of artistic value.  That's probably where I would come down on the art issue as well.  As to the government funding issue, I think that's a gross misuse of government funds, but I'm interested in hearing a well-reasoned counter-argument.

Shjade -- I'm reminded of that famous wit (or scoundrel) who once said, "It depends upon what the meaning of the word 'is' is."  :)

Quote
Can you argue that the artistic value of certain video games is comparable to the artistic value of certain works in other mediums?

Of course this question depends on numerous assumptions, one of which being that artistic value can be objectively determined.  You can dispute that assumption and render the question meaningless.  If you do, though, I have to point out that the objective meaning of language can also be disputed, thus rendering all verbal communication impossible and our entire conversation meaningless.  And very short.  :)  (Show me your definition of art and I'll show you mine, with about as much or as little elaboration as you give for yours, but if you want to do that, let's do it over here, shall we?)
« Last Edit: May 08, 2011, 09:42:20 PM by rick957 »

Offline Shjade

Re: Video Games are officially recognized as an Art form.
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2011, 10:22:27 PM »
I already posted in that thread. ;p

As I imagine you can see from what I think of art there, it's not the kind of thing that has varying value: it provokes thought and emotional response or it doesn't. The extent of that response is going to vary from person to person, so people will no doubt feel some pieces resonate more strongly than others. Does that make them more valuable by medium? Maybe to individuals, but not inherently.

Offline rick957

Re: Video Games are officially recognized as an Art form.
« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2011, 10:42:26 PM »
Well, I could quibble with your definition of art over in that other thread, but such a discussion seems out of place in this thread (plus, you didn't give a full definition over there yet, just the start of one, right?).  Similarly, I could quibble with what you seem to suggest here, (which strikes me as very odd; did you just suggest that all works of art have the same inherent value?  Really?), but that too seems off-topic unless we can relate it back to video games, which I don't know much about.  *shrugs*  Let me know if you want to discuss things further someplace or other.

Offline Will

Re: Video Games are officially recognized as an Art form.
« Reply #20 on: May 08, 2011, 10:45:01 PM »
Will -- thanks for the responses.  I wonder if your views are the most common ones around here.  My guess is that most people don't mind the idea of video games being considered art, though some may at least concede that they would be in a very primitive stage in terms of artistic value.  That's probably where I would come down on the art issue as well.  As to the government funding issue, I think that's a gross misuse of government funds, but I'm interested in hearing a well-reasoned counter-argument.

Do you think funding art of any kind is a gross misuse of funds?  I don't see much reason to shut video games out of that money, aside from the aforementioned immaturity of it as an art form.  I think funding for the arts is pretty important to our society, though it may seem like an easy target for budget cuts at any given time.  I can understand tightening the belt, so to speak, but I think cuts should come from pretty much everywhere and everyone, not just slash deeply into certain vulnerable programs, like arts funding (which wouldn't take us very far on its own, anyway, I'm sure).

Offline rick957

Re: Video Games are officially recognized as an Art form.
« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2011, 11:26:24 PM »
I honestly don't have a firm position on government funding of the arts.  On one hand, it seems inappropriate and frivolous as long as more important government services are underfunded, and I find it hard to believe that there aren't more important government services that could use more funds.  On the other hand, if National Public Radio and Public Television could not exist without their partial funding from the government, that possibility alone makes me in favor of government funding of the arts, at least in those two ultra-specific ways.

In spite of my conflicted and uncertain views on government funding of the arts, I don't mind holding the view that no video games should be funded by tax dollars.  The linked article above lists the following for kinds of projects that grants are available for:

Quote
Projects may include high profile multi-part or single television and radio programs (documentaries and dramatic narratives); media created for theatrical release; performance programs; artistic segments for use within an existing series; multi-part webisodes; installations; and interactive games. Short films, five minutes and under, will be considered in packages of three or more.

Besides video games, I would just as soon not see government funding of "webisodes," multi-part or otherwise.  :)  The list is disturbingly broad.  Whatever the criteria are for deciding what projects are worth funding with public money, I hope the criteria are highly selective, and any criteria that lets through video games or webisodes seems insufficiently rigorous to me.

At the same time, I'm very poorly informed on the issue of government funding of the arts, and on the fields of video games and webisodes.  If anyone can show me a single video game or webisode that many people agree has great artistic merit, I may reconsider my bias against them being federally funded.

(... Wait.  No, I take that last line back.  I'd like to be as magnanimous and open-minded as possible, but there are just too many important artists out there who can't make ends meet readily enough to keep making art.  If we're handing out grants to artists, let's make some effort to put the least important ones towards the back of the line, and if we're short on funds, let's drop the least important artists first.  My apologies to struggling game developers everywhere!)
« Last Edit: May 08, 2011, 11:27:29 PM by rick957 »

Offline Will

Re: Video Games are officially recognized as an Art form.
« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2011, 11:35:46 PM »
I can understand your disdain for certain areas, like the "webisodes" thing.  I honestly can't say for sure that even is, to be honest.  But, specifically in the case of video games, my point is that non-commercial funding may give people a chance to overturn the preconceived notions that probably color your attitude here.

I think that the people responsible for deciding which projects get funded, along with the criteria they use, really make or break the situation for me.  I hope that they have a pretty critical eye in their judgments.  Obviously, I agree that quality artistic expression is more likely to arise in other areas, and I think funding should reflect that, but I am happy that video games can receive consideration.

Offline rick957

Re: Video Games are officially recognized as an Art form.
« Reply #23 on: May 09, 2011, 12:07:18 AM »
It sounds like our views are very close on the matter; what you say there sounds very reasonable to me.

If one can accept the notion that video games could qualify as art -- which is far from an uncontested view -- I suppose the question becomes whether or not one entire artistic field or medium is intrinsically superior to any other.  I would say that certain fields contain a much larger number of individual works of indisputable artistic value, but when you look at the masterpieces in any given field, their accomplishments are so singular and remarkable that it's hard to compare them to anything else or rank them against each other.  Then again, I think it's safe to say, for example, that no film has been produced yet that can match the degree of artistic accomplishment in the best plays or poems ... but I'll bet there's a good argument to be made against that view, too ....

As to video games, though, I'd be more comfortable with the idea of federal funding if there was even one example out there of a game that most people agreed has uncontestable artistic merit, and I'm not aware of such a game yet, although Ebert (in the article linked above) identified one particular game that many gamers claimed had such merit.  Even a ghetto-ized, artistically-bankrupt medium like comic books (one of my personal favorite entertainment mediums) has one or two specific works that stand out as such extraordinary accomplishments that few would deny their artistic value.  Is the same true for video games?  I dunno, I'd like to hear what knowledgeable people think.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2011, 12:13:25 AM by rick957 »

Offline Jude

Re: Video Games are officially recognized as an Art form.
« Reply #24 on: May 09, 2011, 05:15:49 PM »
I definitely have more attachment to video games than I have to other works of art.  I can't think of a single novel, painting, or sculpture that I am invested in as, say, Fallout 3, Morrowind, or Final Fantasy XIII, etc.

I can recall seeing cutscenes in games that I thought were more beautiful and impressive than in any other medium.  I'll never forget how blown away I was by the firing of the Sister Ray, the death of Aeris, etc. in FF7.

There are characters who are more "real" and that I have more of a connection to than those in films -- take Nathan Drake of the Uncharted series for example.  Francis York Morgan from Deadly Premonition... Or even Wheatly from Portal 2.

There are songs I will never forget, that evoke memories of a time and place for me.  Every time I hear the Chrono Trigger soundtrack my mind involuntary shifts back to when I was playing it as a child.  It always evokes a great deal of fondness for the SNES era.

To me, video games are art, because that's how I respond to them.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2011, 01:34:29 PM by Jude »