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Author Topic: Coloring Dogs; Semi-perm or temp coloring?  (Read 1048 times)

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Offline lokiTopic starter

Coloring Dogs; Semi-perm or temp coloring?
« on: August 21, 2010, 08:57:33 PM »
Now let it be known, I am a groomer and the dogs that I do this too are either mine or a customers that they want dyed. Also all the products that are used are safe for them or I wouldn't use them. And one more thing, I know that people either love the idea of coloring dogs for fun or hate it with a passion. I don't really want to get into a fight with anyone over abuse and such, as I said I am a groomer and could go on for hours over what is and isn't abuse, so thank you ahead of time for answering my questions.


Okay, now that that has been said, I have come to a cross roads at this time with dying. Now while we are still experimenting on the semi-perm dyes, (It seems that manic panic colors tend to change colors when applied to dogs hair.) we have also added the temporary, wash out in a minute gels that seem to stay true to their color no matter what color the dog is. The question now is, which would you do on your dogs and why or why not would you do it? There is good and bad in both ways, but I tend to be having an disagreement on which one people would like on their dogs.

Some examples of the coloring....

« Last Edit: August 23, 2010, 01:42:45 PM by loki »

Online Serephino

Re: Coloring Dogs???
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2010, 09:49:11 PM »
My question is..... WHY?  First clothes, now this?  My opinion on this subject is; have these people lost their damned minds?

Offline Oniya

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Re: Coloring Dogs???
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2010, 09:53:17 PM »
This isn't too bad compared to the 'extreme grooming' that I've seen.  At least the kind of styling in the original post leaves the dogs looking like dogs instead of looking like a flower garden (see below).


Offline Shadowsire

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Re: Coloring Dogs???
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2010, 10:43:45 PM »
Greetings for all those who don't know me I am loki's significant other (Fiancee at the moment).  I am also a groomer as well as the mad scientist in charge of the testing we are doing with the dyes. 

Now there is a Great divide between Pet owners, Dog Owners and Those who don't understand.  Those I term pet owners do care and love their pets that is not a question but there is a difference in the depth of their devotion.  A Pet owner will worry and fret of their dog when they have a major problem but a Dog owner would fret over every ill and ache the dog has.  We see this in many forms from those who bring their dogs in little beds to those who call back seeing if their dog is done even when we have told them it will at least take two hours and it had only been 45 minutes.  The third class or Those who don't understand are either new pet owners or don't own a pet.   

Now as loki said this is a discussion on the line between the Semi Permanent and Temporary (wash out gels). 

Serephino
It is similar to those people who dote on their children.  Some people have children and some have pets.  Me and loki happen to be a Pet couple, it was talked about when we were still just talking that we don't want to have children.    I mean your same question could be asked about those who are buying Designer clothes for a baby who will just out grow them and get them dirty in the blink of a eye.  But this is not the place for that discussion.


Oniya

Funny you should choose that pic as she is one who not only does the Professional contest work but also does Pet Coloring. 

Now this is our most ambitious dye job and loki's eldest  Phoenix



Side note loki even made her new collar herself.  She is not only beautiful but talented as well but then I have been told I am bias.   



Now on the subject of the dyes.  They hold true to their base color on the dogs for the most part but then also the results that the humans get with the colors are longer application times.  A dog wont set still for two to three hours for the color to set heavily, most of our dying is done from 5 to 30 minutes at current.  Also we are limited on our dyes at the moment as we are trying to use non toxic products so that they are safe. 

Offline MasterMischief

Re: Coloring Dogs???
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2010, 11:29:30 PM »
This isn't too bad compared to the 'extreme grooming' that I've seen.  At least the kind of styling in the original post leaves the dogs looking like dogs instead of looking like a flower garden (see below).



Is it me, or does the dog look like it is thinking, "I hate you.  I will eat your face while you sleep."?

Offline Shadowsire

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Re: Coloring Dogs???
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2010, 11:44:09 PM »
Is it me, or does the dog look like it is thinking, "I hate you.  I will eat your face while you sleep."?

Good question other than the fact it is not on Topic.   But that is more a I am not happy and don't want to stand here anymore look.  It is a common look for a standard poodle who for a regular groom stands on average for four hours in one or two places (Depending on if the dog is dried on the grooming table or in a drying area.  Than you add in that the shapes are hand scissored and the dog has been held in place for over four hours while the groomer put the detail on as the only thing that is allowed to be done before hand is the base colors such as the pink green and yellow areas of the dog.  All the rest of the color is temporary mainly blow pen or artist chalk Trust me most of the times I see that look on the standards that are done let alone some of the smaller ones who are only done for 2 hours.   


But back to the question would you want to use are semi permanent or a temporary Color?

Offline Oreo

Re: Coloring Dogs???
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2010, 12:06:44 AM »
I used to have a poodle when I was growing up. I can speak from experience that she LOVED coming home from the beauty parlor. She would prance around the house for days with a literal toothy smile on her face. Perhaps that is where the owners get a bit of their fun coloring of their pets. On Topic, I would suggest going with the treatment that is easiest on the pet. Comfort over appearance. Or give the option to the pet owners.

Offline Oniya

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Re: Coloring Dogs???
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2010, 12:22:44 AM »
I apologize for the tangent.

I'm with Oreo on this one.  If it's done, I'd go with whatever was least uncomfortable for the pet.  And while I'm not likely to do it (more of a cat person, sorry), I would give a team of standard poodles markings like a Husky and try to sneak them back into the Iditarod.

Offline Shadowsire

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Re: Coloring Dogs???
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2010, 12:35:30 AM »
Oh trust me those I color unless to big to hold for the time or don't want to be held I hold while they "Bake".   We are wanting to see what the opinions are on the Semi and temp colors as to if there is a preference or not. 

As to poodles in the Iditarod why color them when they have already been competing....

http://home.gci.net/~poodlesleddog/

As for off topic it is fine stories or questions are fine as long as we at least go over the topic as well.  I myself prefer the Semi permanent colors as they leave the fur soft and the temporary are a styling gel and leave it hard and a little sticky till fully dry (Can for see bad things coming from stickiness and the large amounts of excess hair). 




P.S.  Phoenix prances around when ever she is done or anyone says "AAAwwww"  she is a pampered Princess (loki's words).


P.P.S.  We pamper and take care of our dogs so much that they even eat better than we do and we are working eating better. 
« Last Edit: August 22, 2010, 12:41:55 AM by Shadowsire »

Offline Scribbles

Re: Coloring Dogs???
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2010, 09:03:48 AM »
I have to admit that I'm not a fan of colouring dogs but only because I love their natural colours. The bright pinks, purples, etc, unfortunately make me cringe, especially when applied liberally.

Online Serephino

Re: Coloring Dogs???
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2010, 09:44:16 PM »
I have two dogs, and love them to death, but would never do that.  It's my opinion....  I feel bad for that poor dog on the magazine.     

Offline Shadowsire

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Re: Coloring Dogs???
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2010, 10:24:14 PM »
While I respect both of your opinions this discussion is not over whether to color or not.  This is a discussion on the choice between Temporary and Semi Permanent Dyes.  If you have nothing to add on that discussion please do not try to side line this on to another topic.  If  you wish to speak on the topic of To dye or not to please start another thread. 

Offline Oreo

Re: Coloring Dogs???
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2010, 10:41:37 PM »
How long does the wash out color last? Do either of them fade? Does a dark haired dog, like the poodle with the red ears and top, have to be bleached before the coloring is added? I know with people a patch test is recommended, do dogs have the same problems? Does repeated dying affect them? These are all things I would want to know before choosing what type of dye.

Offline lokiTopic starter

Re: Coloring Dogs???
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2010, 11:13:35 PM »
How long does the wash out color last? Do either of them fade? Does a dark haired dog, like the poodle with the red ears and top, have to be bleached before the coloring is added? I know with people a patch test is recommended, do dogs have the same problems? Does repeated dying affect them? These are all things I would want to know before choosing what type of dye.


*takes a deep breath*

Okay ..... it depends on the color and fur. If it is the temp color then it will rinse out as soon as it gets wet, it even fades some when brushed after it is applied. The semi-perm color takes about four to six even eight weeks for the color to fade out completely, though it still depends on which color we have used and fur type. Plus with the semi-prem it can be washed but the color will fade each time you do that, so it really depends on how much the dog gets wet. All we can say for sure is that the color will fade out completely on any dog that we put it on, it's just that the semi-perm lasts kinda like human hair color and the temp comes out when washed.

The dark poodle with the red is one of our own dogs. His hair is black and to get the color like that it was stripped. Though we did color it without being stripped and all it did was tinge the ends and couldn't really be seen unless you looked closely at it, plus it wasn't what we wanted. So we chose a extremely mild stripper, used it on us first (had it sitting on a friends skin while we stripped her hair) before appling it to our pet. Also we didn't apply it to his skin, it was sitting up from it about a forth of an inch, so it had an marbling effect to his ears. That is the extent of the stripping that we will do to ANY dog. We refuse to apply it directly to the skin and won't do it to any short hair dogs.

Repeat dying to the dogs don't affect them in any way other than changing the colors of their hair and that is because of the products that we use. It would be kinda like giving the dog a bath with different shampoos all the time. We only use manic panic products so they are safe. We wouldn't hurt any animals let alone our own pets that we love like children. With the little color that we add to our pets, it doesn't even affect anything but they do tend to prance a lot after we are done and get nothing but tons of attention because of how beautiful they look and they love every minute of it.

The magazine is a show/competition thing, we are pet groomers and only do it for fun. We only tend to do ears, top knots and tails, the one with her body done is mine and I wanted her that way. We don't do fully body dyes because it isn't "just a little color" and that is all that we are trying to do. It is no different than decorating your pets with fancy collars, bows, cloths, hats and painted nails. It is just something that is fun and makes people smile as well as get their pets a lot of happy attention that they tend to love.

Offline Shadowsire

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Re: Coloring Dogs???
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2010, 11:39:36 PM »
Ok not trying to repeat just adding to loki's post.   For the Patch testing are you speaking about the dye or the stripping agent.   On the Dyes we are doing that now with a variety of hair colors and types.  We have found some strange colors such as the grey poodle in loki's first post, his ears are done with Manic Panic's Hot Hot Pink that came out purple.   I recently re did his tail which was a bright pink from Manic Panic's Vampire Red, I added Their Enchanted Forest and it turned a deep purple.  As for the Stripping agent we tested on another groomer first them the black poodle and have limitations to is as well as the dogs as it a difficult process. 


As for the effects of repeated Dying, the only thing we have seen so far is it makes them Prance even more as they get more and more attention.   As for the effects of Manic Panic dyes over long term the only person I know of that uses them is Trieste.   


On a side note I do not like the temp gels.  If they are not applied right and brushed the could act like a mat and cause the dog discomfort.  This is just my opinion.

Offline Oreo

Re: Coloring Dogs???
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2010, 12:06:33 AM »
Okay, from all the info provided. I think I would not go with the gel unless it was for a special occasion and I just wanted it for the weekend or some such. I would prefer to go with the longer lasting dye. Thank you for explaining in detail. Just out of curiosity, does it work on cats? Do you know if they like it like dogs do?

Offline Shadowsire

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Re: Coloring Dogs???
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2010, 12:23:24 AM »
Well First off only two groomers in our shop even do cats.  Second cats do not really like grooming, well the ones we have come in for the most part.  It is a lot of tub time and repeated washes as you have to wash the fur then dry and dye then rinse so it might be to much for them cause once they are done with the grooming they are done.  Meaning if they get angry they don't calm down after a while like a dog will, instead they plot revenge for when your hands get near them again.  They do have cat grooming and color competitions but we have not heard much about them.  Of course we have some people who have the same opinion when they see one of our groomers shaving a cat (normally at owner request or due to mats) that some have about the coloring.    Now I am not sure what they use for the dyes save that one of the dyes we looked at but could not find a supplier for what was used in a cat competition.

Also I am not one of the cat groomers so loki or Toad would have to do it, them being the two in our shop who groom cats. 

Offline Oreo

Re: Coloring Dogs???
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2010, 01:05:14 AM »
Thank you. That was informative. I don't think I would ever dye any of my cats but was curious in the general scheme of things.
This:
Quote
instead they plot revenge for when your hands get near them again.
ROFLMAO, so true.

Offline Oniya

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Re: Coloring Dogs???
« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2010, 01:20:48 AM »
Of course we have some people who have the same opinion when they see one of our groomers shaving a cat (normally at owner request or due to mats) that some have about the coloring.

I've seen what can happen to a long-haired cat that gets matted.  Shaving is a kindness in those instances.

Offline Cecilia

Re: Coloring Dogs???
« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2010, 09:41:55 AM »
As one who has my own hair colored on a regular basis, I prefer it to be done as infrequently as possible.  I can't imagine a dog wanting or enjoying the process any more than a person.  The poodle we had when I was a kid required a lot of regular grooming because they were into those three foot tall pharo like hats.  He shook the whole time they worked on him.  He was a much happier guy after we stopped that and kept him to a manageable four inch deal.

Also, if you want people to solely weigh in on the perm vs. Semi-perm you might change the title of your thread to--Dog coloring: Semi-Perm or Perm coloring--Which would you choose?  Because the current title begs for a different sort of discussion.

Offline lokiTopic starter

Re: Coloring Dogs; Semi-perm or temp coloring?
« Reply #20 on: August 23, 2010, 02:11:44 PM »
As one who has my own hair colored on a regular basis, I prefer it to be done as infrequently as possible.  I can't imagine a dog wanting or enjoying the process any more than a person.  The poodle we had when I was a kid required a lot of regular grooming because they were into those three foot tall pharo like hats.  He shook the whole time they worked on him.  He was a much happier guy after we stopped that and kept him to a manageable four inch deal.

Also, if you want people to solely weigh in on the perm vs. Semi-perm you might change the title of your thread to--Dog coloring: Semi-Perm or Perm coloring--Which would you choose?  Because the current title begs for a different sort of discussion.


Thank you and I have changed the title like you suggested.

As for your comment about your own hair, I assume that you get it stripped everytime that you get it colored, correct? Well if it is correct then I can see why you would think it was unpleasant. But we don't strip the dogs hair everytime. Actually we only stripped the black poodles hair once in a three month and counting period though we have changed his color more than that the stripping isn't necessary to change color. All the other dogs that have the dyed hair never see an stripping agent, the color just goes right on their fur and then is washed out. Also the longest time period that we have ever left color on a dog is thirty minutes before washing it out and drying the dog. It was a test to see if the color deepened or not, the results were the same wether it was a ten minute period or thirty minute. So now they sit (actually they are held) for ten minutes as the color sets then rinsed and dried. So I can say that it isn't nearly as long as it is to get the dogs hair dyed than it is your own, sadly the groom takes way longer than any dying does.


Side note, wow that is a huge top knot that sounds like it belongs on show dogs. Even your four inch top knot around here would have people gasping at how big it was. I think the longest that is requested at our shop is about two inches. I can only remember one standard poodle, in my ten plus years of grooming, that we had a top knot that long before and she has since passed. Most people around here just want something cute and easy to manage. We do pet grooming not show grooming, though if the owners wants it we will do as requested.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2010, 03:31:58 PM by loki »

Offline Cecilia

Re: Coloring Dogs; Semi-perm or temp coloring?
« Reply #21 on: August 23, 2010, 02:45:18 PM »
Yup.  Standard show poodles in the 1970's had huge hair.  Though, It might have been more like 18-20" and only seemed like 3 feet to me.  I can't seem to find a picture, but most of his life he had a shorter cut because keeping up the fluff is hard work.


Offline Shadowsire

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Re: Coloring Dogs; Semi-perm or temp coloring?
« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2010, 02:54:55 PM »
On the time and repeated dying, the dogs we have done it on so far like that have been our own as test subjects.  The grey in loki's first post had his ears and tail dyed twice for fifteen minutes a time, This was at the Owners request to deepen the color (the owner being loki's mother and the owner of the shop).  And as the dyer I must say that their have been a few that I haven't held either because they don't like to be held or they are to big to hold for the time.  The cream colored standard poodle that I do a mohawk being one that is to big to hold plus he is a little skiddish about being picked up.