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Author Topic: Hillary for President??  (Read 27536 times)

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Offline Apple of Eris

Re: Hillary for President??
« Reply #300 on: March 08, 2008, 01:37:44 PM »
Yeah, I'm excited about the PA vote. For the first time, my vote in the primaries will actually matter. In every other election I could have voted for the candidate was already decided by that point.

Offline National Acrobat

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Re: Hillary for President??
« Reply #301 on: April 23, 2008, 09:52:57 AM »
And as expected Hillary wins PA by ten points, and the battle rages on to Indiana. If anyone thinks the current Democratic Party Nominating Process will be the same in 2012, I have real estate in the Everglades to sell you.

Offline robitusinz

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Re: Hillary for President??
« Reply #302 on: April 23, 2008, 02:14:03 PM »
This is self-destruction for the Democratic party.  I don't understand why they're continuing on like this.

Barak should just bow out gracefully, thus setting himself up to run again in 4 or 8 years.  He's very young, he can survive the time, and he'd have plenty of time to shore up his weaknesses, i.e. lack of experience.  At the very least, he can bring unity by being VP.

I only mention Barak bowing out or taking VP because he's the younger candidate and could easily afford to wait 8 years, and in fact would likely benefit from another 4 to 8 years in the political arena.

On the flip side, both candidates are such diametric opposites, that it's quite difficult to make a moderate decision between them.  In either case, McCain is likely to sweep the presidency unless Hillary and Obama decide on a Pres/VP situation.  Any Hillary supporters would become swing-voters in the actual election if Obama is the candidate, and the same the other way around.  The Republicans didn't have such an even split among their followers.

Offline Sugarman (hal)

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Re: Hillary for President??
« Reply #303 on: April 23, 2008, 02:36:17 PM »
This is self-destruction for the Democratic party.  I don't understand why they're continuing on like this.

Barak should just bow out gracefully, thus setting himself up to run again in 4 or 8 years.  He's very young, he can survive the time, and he'd have plenty of time to shore up his weaknesses, i.e. lack of experience.  At the very least, he can bring unity by being VP.

I only mention Barak bowing out or taking VP because he's the younger candidate and could easily afford to wait 8 years, and in fact would likely benefit from another 4 to 8 years in the political arena.

On the flip side, both candidates are such diametric opposites, that it's quite difficult to make a moderate decision between them.  In either case, McCain is likely to sweep the presidency unless Hillary and Obama decide on a Pres/VP situation.  Any Hillary supporters would become swing-voters in the actual election if Obama is the candidate, and the same the other way around.  The Republicans didn't have such an even split among their followers.

I think two things play here.
Pride/ego and sense of history.

Both candidates truly feel they will be the better candidate to win over the Republican nominee. It's a mater ego here.

Also both feel strongly that its the right time in history to break through the walls of prejudice. They both know 4 years from now who ever is in the White House will be harder to dislodge then the one is now.   


Offline robitusinz

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Re: Hillary for President??
« Reply #304 on: April 23, 2008, 04:08:50 PM »
Yeah, you're definitely right.

I'm just sad that this is basically just going to turn into another Republican win.  I'm a moderate who swings towards both sides of the spectrum on different issues, but I'm probably a bit right-of-center, and I really don't want McCain as president.  I just feel that the Republican party has lost its right to lead.  (Not that the Dems have earned it, though...they're just the alternative)

Online RubySlippers

Re: Hillary for President??
« Reply #305 on: April 23, 2008, 05:53:01 PM »
Yeah, you're definitely right.

I'm just sad that this is basically just going to turn into another Republican win.  I'm a moderate who swings towards both sides of the spectrum on different issues, but I'm probably a bit right-of-center, and I really don't want McCain as president.  I just feel that the Republican party has lost its right to lead.  (Not that the Dems have earned it, though...they're just the alternative)

Not they aren't there are several other political parties:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_the_United_States

This year you can vote for a Libertarian, Consitution or Green Party candidates not to mention a huge range of local and regional political parties for local and state offices, even if not the President.

Just find one you like and then vote a party you trust to do the job and can honor with your vote- for me that is the Libertarian Party, next month is our Presidential Convention then we take it to the system again we may not have much of a chance again but we have to try.

Offline Hunter

Re: Hillary for President??
« Reply #306 on: April 24, 2008, 06:08:49 PM »
Yes, Ruby.  There are other parties than Republicans and Democrats.

Other parties that have a prayer of winning?   No.

Offline ShrowdedPoet

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Re: Hillary for President??
« Reply #307 on: April 29, 2008, 01:52:19 PM »
If Hillary becomes president I will first CRY, then I will make plans to leave the country.  Obama seems ok.  I DO NOT WANT MCCAIN. . .*sighs*  But it doesn't matter, I've already descided to vote green.

Online RubySlippers

Re: Hillary for President??
« Reply #308 on: April 29, 2008, 03:28:10 PM »
Yes, Ruby.  There are other parties than Republicans and Democrats.

Other parties that have a prayer of winning?   No.

That is the Peoples fault for not looking for a better option many might like the platforms of a third party and vote for them, to take out local, state and Congressional offices often its a matter of a modest number of people voting. If lets say 55% of the people normally vote, if the rest voted for third party candidates they take over Congress with a large block of seats. Then laws can be changed and Constitutional changes done or at least we can stalmate policies we find destructive to the nation in the Libertarian Party.

A vote is a powerful thing that in one act regardless of the persons status in society destroys a government and reshapes it to their will. Once the rest of the disenfranchised figure that out the two arrogant parties will lose their power.

Offline robitusinz

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Re: Hillary for President??
« Reply #309 on: April 29, 2008, 04:51:30 PM »
That is the Peoples fault for not looking for a better option many might like the platforms of a third party and vote for them, to take out local, state and Congressional offices often its a matter of a modest number of people voting. If lets say 55% of the people normally vote, if the rest voted for third party candidates they take over Congress with a large block of seats. Then laws can be changed and Constitutional changes done or at least we can stalmate policies we find destructive to the nation in the Libertarian Party.

A vote is a powerful thing that in one act regardless of the persons status in society destroys a government and reshapes it to their will. Once the rest of the disenfranchised figure that out the two arrogant parties will lose their power.

LOL, your idealism is so refreshing.

3rd parties are just spoilers.  Until the voting system's changed, voting for a 3rd party is just throwing your vote away.

Offline ShrowdedPoet

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Re: Hillary for President??
« Reply #310 on: April 29, 2008, 05:04:17 PM »
It's never throwing your vote away when you're doing what you feel is best!  That's the problem with alot of Americans today! 

Offline robitusinz

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Re: Hillary for President??
« Reply #311 on: April 29, 2008, 05:30:26 PM »
Who cares about what you feel when you get no results?

I'd rather not masturbate myself with the notion that voting for Ralph Nader is anything more than throwing my vote away.  This is a stag that no one else is going to hunt, so I'd rather hunt the rabbit and make my vote actually count by voting for one of the two candidates with any chance whatsoever.

I feel the voting system needs to be changed from the simplistic single vote to a ranking system.  Instead of voting for a candidate, you rank the candidates in order of preference.  Everyone's first-place vote is then tallied.  The lowest candidate is eliminated, and everyone who ranked that candidate as first will then have their votes count towards their second choice.  At the end of that round, the lowest candidate is again eliminated, and those votes are counted towards the voters' third choice, etc. until one person is elected.

Alternatively, after ranking the candidates, X points would go to the first place candidate, while X-1 points would go to #2, etc.  Whoever gets the most points, wins.

In either case, if your first choice is a 3rd party candidate (though this ranking system would basically destroy the binary party system anyway), and that candidate doesn't win, at least your vote goes to your 2nd favorite candidate, as opposed to just being wasted away.

I could see my voting card reading Ron Paul, Nader, Obama, McCain.

Heck, not only would this blow away the binary party system, but it would also allow just about anyone to run for office.  If you felt that your vote wouldn't be a waste, wouldn't you take a chance in voting for, say, Ross Perot?  Or what if everyone chose Nader as their #2, and he ends up taking it, since all of the #1 votes got split between various candidates?  I really wouldn't be unhappy if my #2 choice ended up taking the presidency.

Offline Elvi

Re: Hillary for President??
« Reply #312 on: April 29, 2008, 05:44:50 PM »
Has it ever occurred to you that if enough people actually vote for the person they want, instead of thinking that their vote would be wasted, the other people may have a Chance?

Offline ShrowdedPoet

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Re: Hillary for President??
« Reply #313 on: April 29, 2008, 05:49:33 PM »
I like to be me and not some sell out.  At least I did what I felt was right and I'm not haunted at night when I'm trying to sleep.  I can smile at my kids and tell me the truth without that nagging lie deep in my heart.  So keep up your "I'll vote for those who have a chance" and I will continue voting for those who I want to give a chance. 

I agree.  Part of America's problem is people tell them if you vote for who you want then your vote won't count so they don't vote. 

Online RubySlippers

Re: Hillary for President??
« Reply #314 on: April 30, 2008, 09:14:09 PM »
Who cares about what you feel when you get no results?

I'd rather not masturbate myself with the notion that voting for Ralph Nader is anything more than throwing my vote away.  This is a stag that no one else is going to hunt, so I'd rather hunt the rabbit and make my vote actually count by voting for one of the two candidates with any chance whatsoever.

I feel the voting system needs to be changed from the simplistic single vote to a ranking system.  Instead of voting for a candidate, you rank the candidates in order of preference.  Everyone's first-place vote is then tallied.  The lowest candidate is eliminated, and everyone who ranked that candidate as first will then have their votes count towards their second choice.  At the end of that round, the lowest candidate is again eliminated, and those votes are counted towards the voters' third choice, etc. until one person is elected.

Alternatively, after ranking the candidates, X points would go to the first place candidate, while X-1 points would go to #2, etc.  Whoever gets the most points, wins.

In either case, if your first choice is a 3rd party candidate (though this ranking system would basically destroy the binary party system anyway), and that candidate doesn't win, at least your vote goes to your 2nd favorite candidate, as opposed to just being wasted away.

I could see my voting card reading Ron Paul, Nader, Obama, McCain.

Heck, not only would this blow away the binary party system, but it would also allow just about anyone to run for office.  If you felt that your vote wouldn't be a waste, wouldn't you take a chance in voting for, say, Ross Perot?  Or what if everyone chose Nader as their #2, and he ends up taking it, since all of the #1 votes got split between various candidates?  I really wouldn't be unhappy if my #2 choice ended up taking the presidency.


I will let a far more abler mind than mine reply on this.:

Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost.
John Quincy Adams

Offline ShrowdedPoet

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Re: Hillary for President??
« Reply #315 on: April 30, 2008, 11:38:31 PM »
*applauds*  Well said!  Thank you for such a great quote!

Online RubySlippers

Re: Hillary for President??
« Reply #316 on: May 01, 2008, 11:43:50 AM »
Benefits of a proper education and reading a great deal, proper books, as well as recreational reading. For me this is a matter of honor I will never vote for any party that I feel to my conscience will destroy the nation further.

And I will add if all the poor that don't vote, did vote, it would shatter the political process in a good way. One thing the politicians need far more than money are votes or they lose their jobs, I feel the third parties should focus just on the non-voters. I'm always wearing my Libertarian Party button outside work with ASK ABOUT IT. And have some literature to show and talk to people about it especially those important young people and lower income non-voters. I don't see those of other parties going out of their way to promote them in my area.

I really tell them this message: Poor or not you have one duty as a citizen to register to vote, become informed of the issues and then vote your conscience for the best person you feel will do the job regardless of their chance of winning. Men and women are dying in the military to defend that right that is sacred to all Americans. Like another great American said:

"A Bible and a newspaper in every house,
a good school in every district -
all studied and appreciated as they merit -
are the principle support of virtue, morality, and civil liberty."
-- Benjamin Franklin

(I would substitute in Bible for whatever text you find spiritual or enlightening, I like my Libertarian Reader.)

But the principles are clear to me you must have a moral center, be informed about what is going on and love education to have a good citizen and voter. When a high school graduate doesn't even know basic facts of American History and Civics, how can we expect them to vote wisely? And I blame the parents for that for not doing their jobs, education of a child is not the governments job its theirs. And with public libraries a fine and valuable civic resource there is no excuse even if your poor. An educated mind is enlightened and an enlightened mind is the key to democracy in my opinion. And I'm not talking here about college just a basic understanding of the world and having an informed opinion.

Offline ShrowdedPoet

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Re: Hillary for President??
« Reply #317 on: May 01, 2008, 12:12:55 PM »
completely agree. . .you brought me to tears.

Offline Elvi

Re: Hillary for President??
« Reply #318 on: May 01, 2008, 08:12:03 PM »
Only the poor don't vote?

Online RubySlippers

Re: Hillary for President??
« Reply #319 on: May 01, 2008, 09:20:13 PM »
No but there is no reason for those who are poor not to be educated enough to properly understand and take part in the political experience. Its worse in my mind when considering the ones who are educated we have college students in my school that don't even know much about American History and the basic rights under the Constitution, with what powers are for which branches. And people are shocked stupid people lead us it hardly shocks me. One even thinks the Civil War was in the early 20th century and thatthe President can declare war whenever he or she would care to like a dictator. And these are to be the leaders of the country the best we can put through higher education.  >:(

But the poor do tend to vote less as far as I can tell from my experience and they are just as vested in the system, a vote again is a legal way to crush a government and build another short of civil war no other force is as great. And even the poorest person in a nation shares that right with the richest its the great equalizer. And the one thing that can sway a politician even over money are votes, otherwise he loses his job.

Offline OldSchoolGamer

Re: Hillary for President??
« Reply #320 on: May 03, 2008, 10:12:56 PM »
I think we're pretty much hosed no matter who wins.

Sorry if that sounds bleak, but I really think this whole election is just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.  This country's economy is seriously imbalanced in so many ways that it's probably going to take a second Great Depression to unwind it out and rebalance.

Offline Zakharra

Re: Hillary for President??
« Reply #321 on: May 04, 2008, 10:48:59 AM »
 I doubt that would work. It took WWII to get us out of the Great Depression. I don't want a WWIII.

Offline OldSchoolGamer

Re: Hillary for President??
« Reply #322 on: May 05, 2008, 02:13:35 AM »
The Depression was actually winding down by the time the way cam along.

To resolve a depression, asset prices have to return to market norms.  It's been like that since tim out of mind, like in the Dutch tulip craze.  "Sorry buddy, your tulips look nice but they;re not worth a three-bedroom house, I don't care how many idiots gave ther homes away for flowers that will be DEAD in two weeks, I'm not one of them, move along."

Offline robitusinz

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Re: Hillary for President??
« Reply #323 on: May 05, 2008, 10:05:03 AM »
Has it ever occurred to you that if enough people actually vote for the person they want, instead of thinking that their vote would be wasted, the other people may have a Chance?

The thing is, the political system is stagnant.  There is too much of "the way it's always been".  There is too little progressive force to change the inertia of the status quo.  You've got upstart 3rd parties going against two political pillars calcified by years of sameness.

Think of a wave crashing against a cliff.  Eventually, given hundreds, thousands, millions of years, that wave may eventually erode that cliff into nothingness.  However, an earthquake can destroy that same cliff in seconds.

Until an "earthquake" comes, there will simply be erosion.  Until something like the Depression which was just mentioned comes along and shakes up the political foundations, or the voting system is changed (do we really need an electoral college?), a 3rd party vote is like being a single drop of water in the wave...you hit the cliff, then scatter.  Eventually, enough drops will erode the cliff, but there needs to be more.

Personally, I don't believe in the wave, I believe in the earthquake.

Offline National Acrobat

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Re: Hillary for President??
« Reply #324 on: May 16, 2008, 08:43:22 AM »
To follow up on the 'stagnant' situation...

There an interesting article this morning about the nomination process for vice president, which could happen at the convention if Obama gets the nomination. The nomination process for the VP Candidate is essentially the same as it is for the POTUS, however it is usually a 'rubber stamp' ceremony with no real meaning, as generally the Presidential nominee generally gets his choice nominated without incident.

Some are suggesting that Clinton could be nominated for VP by the superdelegates, since the nomination process is the same. Obama's price for getting the help of superdelegates that might have put him over the top, but who had a hard time with the idea of going against Hillary out of loyalty, might vote for her for the VP.

It might force him to have her on the ticket.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/realclearpolitics/20080515/cm_rcp/if_clinton_wants_to_be_vp_obam