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Author Topic: Forked Thread: Challenge. Religion and Politics  (Read 3430 times)

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Offline Moondazed

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Re: Forked Thread: Challenge. Religion and Politics
« Reply #25 on: July 05, 2006, 06:31:23 PM »
I agree, it's a pipe dream to think that kids would actually get a comparative religion class, but it would be nice :) 

I actually don't believe in faith-based initiatives... taxpayer's money should be used for non-biased aid, when faith enters the equation it reeks of mixing church and state in my humble opinion.  It sounds harmless enouh when spun one way, but when spun the other way it's a form of providing tax money to people based on religion, and I think that's the end of an iceberg I'd rather leave submerged.

Offline Zakharra

Re: Forked Thread: Challenge. Religion and Politics
« Reply #26 on: July 05, 2006, 11:32:03 PM »
 If it's given only to one religion(sect) then you would be right, moondazed. But with it being given to many religious schools, that does not break the Separtation of state and Religion(which does not exist).

Offline National AcrobatTopic starter

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Re: Forked Thread: Challenge. Religion and Politics
« Reply #27 on: July 06, 2006, 07:01:23 AM »
Yeah, I don't mind the faith based issues as long as they are managed equally, and no religion is given preference.

That being said, other religions that aren't as large need to step up and work on becoming involved in order to take part. It's a two way street in this case.

Offline robitusinz

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Re: Forked Thread: Challenge. Religion and Politics
« Reply #28 on: July 06, 2006, 12:43:55 PM »
There exists a basic human code of morality.  We all know it, and by virtue of simply living in a communal society, we are programmed to live by it.

Even the most devoutly religious has to know when they overstep the boundary between "basic human rights", and "Personal Beleif System".

Be as Christian as you wanna be.  Eat Christianity 'til your shit smells like the Poopie of Christ.  Just keep it in your pants, and don't let it out 'til you get home.  In the privacy of your own home, you can whip it out and Christianate all over the Bible if you so feel the need.

Offline Moondazed

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Re: Forked Thread: Challenge. Religion and Politics
« Reply #29 on: July 06, 2006, 02:14:12 PM »
Yeah, I don't mind the faith based issues as long as they are managed equally, and no religion is given preference.

That being said, other religions that aren't as large need to step up and work on becoming involved in order to take part. It's a two way street in this case.


See, there's another reason I don't like it... other religions don't take tithes that make it possible for them to step up and become involved because they're not funding missionaries and grand worship facilities.

If it's given only to one religion(sect) then you would be right, moondazed. But with it being given to many religious schools, that does not break the Separtation of state and Religion(which does not exist).

(which does not exist)?  Meaning?

Offline National AcrobatTopic starter

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Re: Forked Thread: Challenge. Religion and Politics
« Reply #30 on: July 06, 2006, 02:18:18 PM »
Quote
See, there's another reason I don't like it... other religions don't take tithes that make it possible for them to step up and become involved because they're not funding missionaries and grand worship facilities.

As far as I know, from what I understand about the program, you don't need to accept tithes. You just need to be able to apply for the funds and have something that you can do to help others to use them for. I'm fairly certain that other religions could come up with a plan to utilize funds in a manner to help everyone.

It's just a thought, and IMHO is a good chance for less visible religions, of which I am a part, to come together and show what they can do.

Offline Moondazed

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Re: Forked Thread: Challenge. Religion and Politics
« Reply #31 on: July 06, 2006, 02:39:19 PM »
I wasn't implying that they HAVE TO collect tithes... I was saying that they have an infrastructure because they do.  I'm a Pagan, and I don't really affiliate myself with any one group (such as CoG or Church of All Worlds).  As much as I would like to see Paganism recognized, I can't reconcile my beliefs about freedom of religion with faith-based aid programs.  It opens a can of worms that I just don't want opened, personally.

Offline National AcrobatTopic starter

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Re: Forked Thread: Challenge. Religion and Politics
« Reply #32 on: July 06, 2006, 02:46:16 PM »
I'm Pagan also, and I don't affiliate as well. However, I do have friends in other parts of the country who are Pagan and who get together to worship together. It's not terribly formal and would need some structure, but they have discussed trying to be a force for good in their community, and in cases like that, I think some Faith Based initiatives would be good.

I have a feeling it's here to stay, and I think it would be good for some folks to try to make it work for them as well. That's all I'm really saying.

Offline Moondazed

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Re: Forked Thread: Challenge. Religion and Politics
« Reply #33 on: July 06, 2006, 06:07:26 PM »
I agree, and if it is here to stay maybe it will actually help unite the Pagan community... but I'm afraid that even I'm not that much of a fluffy bunny :(  I sporadically worship with a group in Charlottesville and am going to SpiralHeart's Intensive at the end of the month, but I find so many members of the Pagan community who are no more than Christians in Pagan clothing that I get disgruntled with it and have to step back for a few months at a time.

I hope you know that I greatly respect your views :) 

I respect the views of anyone who presents them without being rude and offensive and does even a modicum of research into actual facts... it's those who let others do the thinking for them who get on my last nerve.

Offline Zakharra

Re: Forked Thread: Challenge. Religion and Politics
« Reply #34 on: July 07, 2006, 12:23:58 AM »
(which does not exist)? Meaning?

 That there is no separation of church and state as it is used now. All the state is required is to not support an official state sponsered religion, and to not interfere with the practice of people practicing their religions. The former is used to keep any federal money from Christian organizations, and the latter is ignored by the liberal left and people practicing Christianity are stopped all the time.

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Re: Forked Thread: Challenge. Religion and Politics
« Reply #35 on: July 07, 2006, 04:41:34 AM »
What about tax exemptions for religious institutions?  What do you make of that?

Offline National AcrobatTopic starter

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Re: Forked Thread: Challenge. Religion and Politics
« Reply #36 on: July 07, 2006, 05:58:10 AM »
What about tax exemptions for religious institutions?  What do you make of that?

I think it needs to go. It infringes on a religious institution's Free Speech rights, and we all know that congregations will talk about whatever they please anyway. If it's being placed on them simply to avoid them getting involved in politics, it doesn't work at all, and to me, none of the religious institutions should be tax exempt.

Unless perhaps they put some sort of limit on it based on charitable donations, etc. but even that is too tricky to work with.