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Author Topic: Judge defends anti-homosexual hospital  (Read 2455 times)

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Offline GothicFires

Re: Judge defends anti-homosexual hospital
« Reply #25 on: October 25, 2009, 11:04:57 AM »
Things like this pop up, and people wonder why I say that discrimination against homosexuals is the lowest level of discrimination that's allowed. I'm sorry, but even if you couldn't let the partner in for whatever reason, isn't it common decency to at least keep her updated on her lover's situation? I mean, just imagine waiting around a hospital for hours on end, not seeing your significant other, and then finding out through their sister that they had been moved to ICU an hour ago, with no hospital worker informing you. I don't just think that's unethical, I think it's downright cruel. [/soapbox]

to call it discrimination you would have to prove that the hospital treated this woman any different than any non related person who came in to see a critically ill, unconscious patient.

this at least should be a warning to same sex couples on E that not only do you need to get power of attorney and medical power of attorney for your partners that you need to carry the medical power of attorney with you when you travel... really even when you leave your house because you never know when a medical emergency can happen and you need to make a medical decision for this person.

It is a reminder to me that I need to get one for my mother and that my mother needs one on me. Technically because I am an adult my mother doesn't even have rights if I get to a state where I can no longer make medical decisions for myself. 

Offline Trieste

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Re: Judge defends anti-homosexual hospital
« Reply #26 on: October 25, 2009, 12:37:05 PM »
I think the only thing in this instance where the hospital fell short (legally, anyway, I won't touch the obvious moral reprehensibility) was in failing to inform the person with power of attorney of this woman's medical condition and changes therein. Everything else is defensible and legal, as the judge pointed out. Which is why the motion to dismiss was granted in the first place.

Bravo on the judge for NOT getting his activist on.

Offline thebobmaster

Re: Judge defends anti-homosexual hospital
« Reply #27 on: October 25, 2009, 01:15:10 PM »
I think the only thing in this instance where the hospital fell short (legally, anyway, I won't touch the obvious moral reprehensibility) was in failing to inform the person with power of attorney of this woman's medical condition and changes therein. Everything else is defensible and legal, as the judge pointed out. Which is why the motion to dismiss was granted in the first place.

Bravo on the judge for NOT getting his activist on.

Agreed. Notice how I said unethical and cruel, not illegal. Should be illegal, but it isn't. But still, not informing the SO of the patient that she's been moved to ICU for an hour?

Offline GothicFires

Re: Judge defends anti-homosexual hospital
« Reply #28 on: October 25, 2009, 02:11:04 PM »
had this been a heterosexual couple they still wouldn't have been able to tell the so.

welcome to the results of a sue happy nation and the demand for privacy.

Offline Kotah

Re: Judge defends anti-homosexual hospital
« Reply #29 on: October 25, 2009, 08:34:33 PM »
What gothicfires said. You can't be notified anymore without expressed proof of permission. If the SO doesn't have the papers to prove it, we can't tell you jack snap. In some  cases we cant even give the room number.   

On the flip side, at the facility I worked at when I lived in the Chicago area we had a patient Code out. The nurse, a nice Indian lady, preformed CPR on her with another member of staff . The woman was brought back after only a handful of compressions. she had the same standard of living as pro-episode. However, the family had recently changed the residents status to No Code DRN. Which means that she wasn't supposed to get treatment if she went.

The facility was sued.

Hospitals and facilities have hipa and other laws because.... shit happens, and people sue them. It might seem unfair, but just think about the nurses.

A single act of compassion can cost us our license. If we say -one thing- without expressed permission, we loose our license. We clean someones bottom, and they are having a bad day? We could spend 5 years in prison for elder abuse and loose our license. If say, you ask your nurse about your sickness, and she gives an answer that turns out to be wrong? Sued. Loose license.

The real problem is, there's to many laws protecting the patient. I've had to refuse admittance before. It sucks, but we have to do it.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2009, 08:50:27 PM by Kotah »

Offline Rhapsody

Re: Judge defends anti-homosexual hospital
« Reply #30 on: October 25, 2009, 08:46:58 PM »
What gothicfires said. You can't be notified anymore without expressed proof of permission. If the SO doesn't have the papers to prove it, we can't tell you jack snap. In some  cases we cant even give the room number.         

I'm not trying to be argumentative on what's obviously a touchy subject, but is Power of Attorney and privilege of end-of-life decisions not enough to justify keeping the partner informed?

Offline Pumpkin Seeds

Re: Judge defends anti-homosexual hospital
« Reply #31 on: October 25, 2009, 08:50:25 PM »
The partner was informed as far as I can tell from the article.  She was also able to inform the physician about the last wishes of her partner and those wishes were respected.

Offline GothicFires

Re: Judge defends anti-homosexual hospital
« Reply #32 on: October 25, 2009, 08:51:38 PM »
just to be clear... power of attorney is over someone's finances. medical power of attorney is different. You do not need either to have a living will.

the problem if you read the article and look at my comment earlier. This woman left her paper's at home. If she had them with her when she went on vacation then none of this would have been an issue. She had to call someone to go and get them. It does not mention the time it took for someone to get them and the other woman to die. 

You can't just say that 'hi I am so and so and I mean such and such to this person... this is what she would have wanted... it doesn't work that way.

Offline Kotah

Re: Judge defends anti-homosexual hospital
« Reply #33 on: October 25, 2009, 08:56:17 PM »
You have to give someone medical proxy to let them know.

POA:  finances
Living will: the right to refuse life support.

You have to sign over medical proxy. It's a form you ask for when admitted if you don't have official papers.

Offline GothicFires

Re: Judge defends anti-homosexual hospital
« Reply #34 on: October 25, 2009, 09:04:58 PM »
Medical Proxy allows you to find out the medical status of patients. It will not allow you to impart the wishes of that person should they become unable to make medical decisions for themselves. For that you need medical power of attorney.

In this case because the woman was unconscious when she entered the hospital medical proxy wouldn't be usable.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2009, 09:07:06 PM by GothicFires »

Offline Rhapsody

Re: Judge defends anti-homosexual hospital
« Reply #35 on: October 25, 2009, 09:10:53 PM »
The article states that the partner had something called durable power of attorney, and that within a short time had the relevant documents faxed to her to give the admin staff. 

According to Wikipedia: "In some jurisdictions, a durable power of attorney can also be a "Health Care Power of Attorney", an advance directive which empowers the attorney-in-fact (proxy) to make health-care decisions for the grantor, up to and including terminating care and "pulling the plug" on machines keeping a critically and terminally ill patient alive. Health care decisions include the power to consent, refuse consent or withdraw consent to any type of medical care, treatment, service or procedure."

I'd be interested to know if Miami is one of those jurisdictions.

Offline Kotah

Re: Judge defends anti-homosexual hospital
« Reply #36 on: October 25, 2009, 09:12:04 PM »
True. I've read the thing, but I was under the impression she was conscious it said she signed 'I love you".

I would be interested to know as well.

Offline Pumpkin Seeds

Re: Judge defends anti-homosexual hospital
« Reply #37 on: October 25, 2009, 09:13:12 PM »
Not sure but she did make healthcare decisions and was informed of her partner's condition.

Offline Rhapsody

Re: Judge defends anti-homosexual hospital
« Reply #38 on: October 25, 2009, 09:16:00 PM »
True. I've read the thing, but I was under the impression she was conscious it said she signed 'I love you".

I would be interested to know as well.

I think that she was conscious when she was being loaded into the ambulance, which is the last time the partner and the children saw her alive without the aid of machinery.  It's mentioned before the partner said she arrived a few minutes ahead of the ambulance.

Offline GothicFires

Re: Judge defends anti-homosexual hospital
« Reply #39 on: October 25, 2009, 09:20:53 PM »
the woman was conscious when she was loaded into the ambulance. It is very unlikely that with a brain aniruism(sp)  she would have stayed conscious long or that they would have been concerned with her signing consent forms giving that it was a life or death situation.

Offline Rhapsody

Re: Judge defends anti-homosexual hospital
« Reply #40 on: October 25, 2009, 09:25:44 PM »
Not sure but she did make healthcare decisions and was informed of her partner's condition.

From the article, it seems very hit or miss as to how up-to-date Ms. Langbehn was kept, since she didn't find out until her sister-in-law arrived and ID'ed herself as such that her wife had been moved to the ICU an hour prior.  After proving she had the right to make medical decisions and stating that Ms. Pond had a living will, which may or may not have included DNRs or "no extraordinary measures" clauses, one would think the doctors would have informed her their patient was now in intensive care.

I understand that trauma can be a very trying thing, and surgeons to be doing everything they can to save the life often means they can't update the patient's loved ones as often as the loved ones would like, and that despite the loved ones' wishes, they can't be immediately by the patients' sides... but I do think that something was seriously amiss in this situation.

Ms. Langbehn was right when she asked in the article "how old do you have to be to say goodbye to your mother?"  I personally would want my children to at least be there before they unhooked the machines, so they could tell me goodbye.  I don't care if they're two, twelve or twenty.

Offline Pumpkin Seeds

Re: Judge defends anti-homosexual hospital
« Reply #41 on: October 25, 2009, 09:32:39 PM »
She was granted access to the patient within five hours of the person begin admitted to the hospital.  Considering what must have been going on during that time, I don't really see an issue with time there.  The documents were provided and the hospital acted accordingly.  As for children, once more it's very rare for children to be allowed in ICU and if they got there at around 4 or 5 in the afternoon, that would have been 10 at night.  Visiting hours were probably over so a large group of people are not going to be allowed to see her.