The Slap

[Beorning]

As the discussion of Will Smith's actions at the Oscars ceremony was taking a lot of space in the news thread (and not everyone was interested in it), I thought I'd start a separate thread for everyone willing to continue talking about this issue. And so - here it is: a thread regarding The Slap... and all other slaps, too.

Questions to consider: was it okay for Will Smith to lash out at Chris Rock like that? Is slapping someone justified in such a situation (i.e. when one's spouse is being made fun of)? Also, was Smith in the right to slap Rock in defense of his wife - or was it a case of a man being possessive of his "property"?

General slapping issues to consider: is slapping the same as assaulting someone or can it be considered a socially-acceptable gesture? Is it, in general, acceptable for a man to slap another man? Or for a woman to slap another woman? Or, for a woman to slap a man... or, for a man, to slap a woman?

Note: not trying to press any viewpoint here, I'm genuinely interested in your opinions and that's all. I'm not representing any "Right to Slap" group or anything like it... 

[TheGlyphstone]

Howbout your opinion, to start? You might not be trying to press a viewpoint, but you certainly have one, and if you're asking this question in the first place it means you think there is, or might be, a circumstance where it is appropriate. What might those circumstances be, if you're even entertaining the slightest possibility of it being okay?

[Beorning]

Howbout your opinion, to start? You might not be trying to press a viewpoint, but you certainly have one

Not necessarily! Sometimes, I'm just like Jon Snow and know nothing! :)

and if you're asking this question in the first place it means you think there is, or might be, a circumstance where it is appropriate. What might those circumstances be, if you're even entertaining the slightest possibility of it being okay?

Eh, I don't know. I'm a person that just doesn't find it easy to express feelings through violence. When I'm angry, I usually shout... explosively  But hitting someone? I can recall only two instances in my whole life when I lost my self-control so deeply I tried to punch someone. So, I honestly don't see myself as slapping someone...

That said, slapping (at least if what movies and TV shows taught me is true  ) seems to be a gesture that has its unique place in human interactions. Like, when wife is humiliated by her cheating husband... or when a guy acts like a total swine toward a woman... or says something really disgusting and hurtful to her... that sort of thing. It seems like, in such situations, slapping is the harshest and the most direct way a woman can display her anger and condemnation... I don't know, are slaps like these still an unacceptable form of violence?

I honestly don't know, that's why I'm asking around.

[Regina Minx]

Kareem Abdul Jabbar has thoughts on the matter I largely agree with. Emphasis mine.

The Smiths could have reacted by politely laughing along with the joke or by glowering angrily at Rock. Instead, Smith felt the need to get up in front of his industry peers and millions of people around the world, hit another man, then return to his seat to bellow: “Keep my wife's name out of your fucking mouth.” Twice.

Some have romanticized Smith’s actions as that of a loving husband defending his wife. Comedian Tiffany Haddish, who starred in the movie Girls Trip with Pinkett Smith, praised Smith’s actions: “[F]or me, it was the most beautiful thing I’ve ever seen because it made me believe that there are still men out there that love and care about their women, their wives.”

Actually, it was the opposite. Smith’s slap was also a slap to women. If Rock had physically attacked Pinkett Smith, Smith’s intervention would have been welcome. Or if he’d remained in his seat and yelled his post-slap threat, that would have been unnecessary, but understandable. But by hitting Rock, he announced that his wife was incapable of defending herself—against words. From everything I’d seen of Pinkett Smith over the years, she’s a very capable, tough, smart woman who can single-handedly take on a lame joke at the Academy Awards show.

This patronizing, paternal attitude infantilizes women and reduces them to helpless damsels needing a Big Strong Man to defend their honor least they swoon from the vapors. If he was really doing it for his wife, and not his own need to prove himself, he might have thought about the negative attention this brought on them, much harsher than the benign joke. That would have been truly defending and respecting her. This “women need men to defend them” is the same justification currently being proclaimed by conservatives passing laws to restrict abortion and the LGBTQ+ community.

[Saria]

was it okay for Will Smith to lash out at Chris Rock like that?

No. For many dozens of reasons.

Even if you imagine the absolute “best case scenario” for Will Smith—like, the Smiths explicitly told Rock beforehand that if he made that kind of joke, Will would walk up and slap him—that still wouldn’t make it an appropriate response.

Both Will and Jada are not only grown-ass adults, they are celebrities. They have to expect they will be mocked. In particular, Jada specifically went public with her diagnosis, and even joked about it.

(Does that make it okay for Rock to mock her for her illness? That’s tricky, and it’s a whole other question. As I said above, even if Rock was absolutely 100% in the wrong, a physical attack is still not an appropriate response.)

Is slapping someone justified in such a situation (i.e. when one's spouse is being made fun of)?

Certainly not in the situation that actually happened.

Is there any way the situation could be tweaked to make such an attack justified? Sure.

• We’d have to be talking about a situation where the comedian is harassing the spouse. Like, not a single joke made in passing, or even “he’s made fun of her more than once”, but a pattern of behaviour that continues even after being asked to stop.
• And this is important: You first have to talk to the comedian, and tell them that the mockery is really hurting the spouse. You have to give them a chance to stop, to apologize, and so on. There has to be a lot of escalation before getting to physical violence.
• The mockery should also be really be hurting the spouse. If it merely annoys them or pisses them off… well, okay, but in that case the harassment would have to be much more extreme, bordering on the obsessive.

Basically, resorting to a physical attack is not always wrong… but it takes a lot to get the point where it is justified. When you are asked “why didn’t you try ____ instead?” you best have a damn good answer (like “we did; it didn’t work; the harassment continued”).

Also, was Smith in the right to slap Rock in defense of his wife - or was it a case of a man being possessive of his "property"?

As I’ve had to repeat several times now in the other topic: THAT DEPENDS ON WHETHER JADA ASKED HIM TO ASSAULT ROCK FOR HER.

Hopefully this time it will get through without me having to repeat it over and over.

The post I was responding to in the other topic was about a “dilemma” men face when deciding whether or not to “defend the honour” of a woman. The “dilemma” was that either you step in and do something, and be called a violent brute… or you don’t, and be called a coward who doesn’t love the woman enough to go to bat for her in a pinch. My response was simply that the “dilemma” is false; it only appears to be a dilemma because you’re ignoring the woman’s agency.

If you are ignoring the woman’s agency, and unilaterally deciding that you will fight for her… then, yeah, no choice you make will be right. You failed from the jump; whatever you choose next is irrelevant.

All you need to do is ask the woman what she wants. If she says “slap that motherfucker,” then—assuming that’s an appropriate response (as in, it would be okay for her to slap the motherfucker)—there is nothing “savage” or “barbaric” about it; you were asked for help. If she says not to act for her… then don’t, and if any one calls you a “spineless coward” for actually caring about a woman’s opinion… I mean, that pretty much says everything you need to know about them: Fuck ’em, they’re garbage people.

There are a lot of reasons why someone might want/need someone to fight for them. If someone asks you to do so, then (again, assuming that fighting is appropriate) you can be a hero for stepping up for them.

(Note that if fighting is not an appropriate response in a given situation, then you shouldn’t do it just because someone asked you to. You’re a grown-ass adult; take responsibility for your own choices. If someone asks you to fight for them, you still get to choose whether to do it or not.)

This is just consent 101. You don’t get to fondle me, fuck me, fraternize with me, fasten to me, or fight for me without my consent.

(By the way, I would normally think this doesn’t have to be said, but…. When I say “ask the woman”, I don’t mean that it’s necessary to literally address the woman and say, “yo, you want me to smack that fool for you?” Consent can be given non-verbally. And when people are in a long-term relationship—like, being married—then it is often the case that they know each other well enough that they know their partner would consent without any need to check at all; consent is just understood, as are each others’ limits and such. Jada may have been fine with Will fighting for her, and may even have wanted it… and Will may have just known that without stopping to check in the heat of the moment. All that’s fine. That still counts as consent.)

is slapping the same as assaulting someone or can it be considered a socially-acceptable gesture?

It’s assault.

There are situations where assault can be “socially acceptable”… but those are (or should be) obviously very rare, and extreme.

Is it, in general, acceptable for a man to slap another man? Or for a woman to slap another woman? Or, for a woman to slap a man... or, for a man, to slap a woman?

I think fixating on the genders is a red herring. The key is the power balance. While, all other things being equal, it is generally true that men have more power than women—and thus, a man slapping a woman is a worse offence than a woman slapping a man—it’s not hard to come up with scenarios where the woman has the power.

That works for two men or two women, too. A man with more power smacking a man with less is just as bad as the “general” case of a man smacking a woman, for exactly the same reason.

I’d say that Will Smith and Chris Rock are more or less equal, power-wise. Jada Pinkett Smith is probably a “lesser” celebrity than both of them (and a woman, of course), so it makes perfect sense that if she wanted to smack Rock, that she would ask Smith to do it for her. And if physical retaliation had been justified, then everything would have been fine; Jada needed/wanted help, Will helped… all good. Indeed, Will would even deserve praise for helping her.

But of course, this was not a situation where physical retaliation was justified, so whether or not Jada asked Will to do it, Will was wrong to do it. If Jada did ask him to do it… well, then she deserves condemnation, too, but ultimately, Will made the choice to do it. If she didn’t ask… then Will deserves all the condemnation, both for the assault, and for being a sexist prick.

(Eh, I suppose full disclosure requires that I admit that I don’t really think much of Chris Rock, and on the contrary, I really like both Will Smith and Jada Pinkett Smith. Still, Will was wrong.)

[greenknight]

The slap absolutely was not assault. It was battery. Force was used, not just threatened or attempted. Minor semantic note.

Rock could also be guilty of disturbing the peace by using "fighting words," public statements likely to be injurious by their nature and/or likely to incite a person to violence.

Self-defense is a defense only against acts in response to imminent or actual physical harm.

Both could have legal liability.

One was an asshole (or, at best, inarticulate) and one responded excessively. That neither seems to be pursuing this further indicates they are satisfied with the outcome and it is thus up to the LA DA to decide if "we" are satisfied with the outcome.

[Azy]

I honestly have no idea why this is being talked about constantly days later except that it was two celebrities.  They are also human beings.  Chris Rock shouldn't have made that joke.  Will Smith shouldn't have hit him. 

[BlueOrange]

Thirty years ago, I got slapped in the face for mouthing off.  The last time my jaw hurt as a result of it is right now.  I'm not a fan of slapping people for mouthing off.

As far as comic observations go "The woman with the shaved head looks like GI Jane" is one of the mildest jokes ever told at the expense of a celebrity (or indeed, anyone).  I get that she's sensitive about it.  I'm sensitive about things, and sometimes I get teased about them.  There's a limit to how thin-skinned a person can be and still be able to take part in society.

[Iniquitous]

Thirty years ago, I got slapped in the face for mouthing off.  The last time my jaw hurt as a result of it is right now.  I'm not a fan of slapping people for mouthing off.

As far as comic observations go "The woman with the shaved head looks like GI Jane" is one of the mildest jokes ever told at the expense of a celebrity (or indeed, anyone).  I get that she's sensitive about it.  I'm sensitive about things, and sometimes I get teased about them.  There's a limit to how thin-skinned a person can be and still be able to take part in society.

FFS - it is a disease. An incurable disease. You DO NOT make jokes about someone with a damn disease! That is a line crossed and everyone on this planet should understand and agree you do not cross that line.  We'd all be up in arms if Rock had made a joke about someone being bald cause of cancer, or fat because of a thyroid issue, or broke out in sore because of AIDS, but so very few are upset that he cracked a joke about a woman who has been forced to shave her head because of alopecia.

Let me say this. I have alopecia.  I have to shave my head and wear wigs.  Do any of you have an understanding of how embarrassing it is to not have hair? When our whole goddamn society places our looks at the pinnacle of importance not having hair is horrifying. Mortifying. Yes, I crack jokes about needing new wigs and shaving my head but that does NOT mean other people can. I do it because I have to find a way to live with and try to accept this disease.

No matter how you try to spin it, Rock was -wrong- and he owes an apology. Not just to Jada but to everyone.  Smith definitely could have handled it better. There's a time, place and method for handling everything, and right then, at the Oscars, with a slap was not the correct way.  He has admitted he was wrong, apologized and said his actions are inexcusable.

Here's the thing. I am not as bothered by his reaction as I am by Rock's action. Why?  Smith knows better than anyone what his wife has gone through with her disease. He has seen what she has gone through to get to the point that she was willing to go out in public with no hair (something I haven't even worked myself up to and I have been dealing with alopecia longer than she has). Sure, he laughed at first, then turned and saw his wife's reaction. Anyone else see it?  The disgusted look and eye roll?

If you love someone you want to protect them from ever feeling hurt. From being embarrassed. From being made fun of. Don't give me the bs about a man trying to protect a woman is patriarchy cause that is just bullshit.  It is instinctual to want to protect the ones you love. Male or female - cause rest assured if someone were cracking a joke at the expense of a man I love for something he has no control over you'd see a side of me you wouldn't want to see.  As parents we react the same way to wanting to protect our children.  It is what it is - we protect what we love.  Doesn't mean we think our partner is incapable of doing so themselves.  Doesn't mean we think our feelings are more important.  We don't want to see our loved ones hurting, embarrassed, crying.

Yes, Smith was wrong for battery.  Violence is not the answer.  But I completely understand his reaction.  The woman he loves was just made the butt of a joke about her medical condition and was visibly upset.  He said it himself "love makes you do crazy things" - and he is right.

[Thufir Hawat]

As the discussion of Will Smith's actions at the Oscars ceremony was taking a lot of space in the news thread (and not everyone was interested in it), I thought I'd start a separate thread for everyone willing to continue talking about this issue. And so - here it is: a thread regarding The Slap... and all other slaps, too.

Questions to consider: was it okay for Will Smith to lash out at Chris Rock like that? Is slapping someone justified in such a situation (i.e. when one's spouse is being made fun of)? Also, was Smith in the right to slap Rock in defense of his wife - or was it a case of a man being possessive of his "property"?

General slapping issues to consider: is slapping the same as assaulting someone or can it be considered a socially-acceptable gesture? Is it, in general, acceptable for a man to slap another man? Or for a woman to slap another woman? Or, for a woman to slap a man... or, for a man, to slap a woman?

Note: not trying to press any viewpoint here, I'm genuinely interested in your opinions and that's all. I'm not representing any "Right to Slap" group or anything like it... 

OK, I like it when it's that easy to answer a series of questions, that the answer is shorter than the questions themselves !

"Yes" on all accounts, except the one about "property". And yes, he could have handled it better, but sometimes people do go overboard and we do things we might not like the next morning, but I really can't blame Smith. Odds are, I'd have done worse.
Done .

For a more elaborate answer, see what Iniquitous wrote.

[Azy]

FFS - it is a disease. An incurable disease. You DO NOT make jokes about someone with a damn disease! That is a line crossed and everyone on this planet should understand and agree you do not cross that line.  We'd all be up in arms if Rock had made a joke about someone being bald cause of cancer, or fat because of a thyroid issue, or broke out in sore because of AIDS, but so very few are upset that he cracked a joke about a woman who has been forced to shave her head because of alopecia.

Let me say this. I have alopecia.  I have to shave my head and wear wigs.  Do any of you have an understanding of how embarrassing it is to not have hair? When our whole goddamn society places our looks at the pinnacle of importance not having hair is horrifying. Mortifying. Yes, I crack jokes about needing new wigs and shaving my head but that does NOT mean other people can. I do it because I have to find a way to live with and try to accept this disease.

No matter how you try to spin it, Rock was -wrong- and he owes an apology. Not just to Jada but to everyone.  Smith definitely could have handled it better. There's a time, place and method for handling everything, and right then, at the Oscars, with a slap was not the correct way.  He has admitted he was wrong, apologized and said his actions are inexcusable.

Here's the thing. I am not as bothered by his reaction as I am by Rock's action. Why?  Smith knows better than anyone what his wife has gone through with her disease. He has seen what she has gone through to get to the point that she was willing to go out in public with no hair (something I haven't even worked myself up to and I have been dealing with alopecia longer than she has). Sure, he laughed at first, then turned and saw his wife's reaction. Anyone else see it?  The disgusted look and eye roll?

If you love someone you want to protect them from ever feeling hurt. From being embarrassed. From being made fun of. Don't give me the bs about a man trying to protect a woman is patriarchy cause that is just bullshit.  It is instinctual to want to protect the ones you love. Male or female - cause rest assured if someone were cracking a joke at the expense of a man I love for something he has no control over you'd see a side of me you wouldn't want to see.  As parents we react the same way to wanting to protect our children.  It is what it is - we protect what we love.  Doesn't mean we think our partner is incapable of doing so themselves.  Doesn't mean we think our feelings are more important.  We don't want to see our loved ones hurting, embarrassed, crying.

Yes, Smith was wrong for battery.  Violence is not the answer.  But I completely understand his reaction.  The woman he loves was just made the butt of a joke about her medical condition and was visibly upset.  He said it himself "love makes you do crazy things" - and he is right.

This is exactly why I don't like the comments of well they're in the public eye, they should expect jokes to be made about them.  Jokes about bad behavior are one thing.  A lot of things were said when they came out about their open marriage.  An illness is something a comic should know better than to use for a punch line. 

[BlueOrange]

I don’t criticize Will Smith for a moment for feeling angry. I accept that he was motivated to protect, and I agree that protecting someone is not (in itself) a statement that they can’t protect themselves. I think people who insist “Helping me is an assertion that I can’t help myself,” harm themselves when they do that. (I hold doors open for men and women, because I’m nice, not because I think they can’t open a door.)

Is it OK to joke about sickness? I wish it were. As a person who has been unable to work for 3 years due to serious illness, I wish people joked about my illness more. It’d help me to feel human. Like my illness wasn’t some horrible disaster that defined every aspect of my experience.

Consider the joke Chris Rock told immediately before the GI Jane joke (the one about a wife who might be miserable if she lost and her husband won). That goes to ‘who a person really is’ more than hairstyle, in my view. Now, maybe you think “You have short hair” is a more hurtful observation than “You’re a jealous bitch”.

If you’re a celebrity at an event like the Oscars, then you’re working. Your job is to present your brand in an attractive light, and that includes presenting yourself as someone who can handle some light comedy. The party is after the Oscars. You know in advance that you’ll be teased by a professional comedian. This is not a case of a vulnerable person being relentlessly harassed in the lunch room. This is a multi-millionaire professional performer who forgot the rules of the game.

[Regina Minx]

Yes, Smith was wrong for battery.  Violence is not the answer.  But I completely understand his reaction.  The woman he loves was just made the butt of a joke about her medical condition and was visibly upset.  He said it himself "love makes you do crazy things" - and he is right.

And like I said in the News thread, I disagree with this sentiment. Love doesn't make you do crazy things. Love makes you do loving things. Crazy makes you do crazy things. Regardless of “who is right” in the heat of the moment, if this had happened at a fancy restaurant in Hollywood and Will Smith had slapped Chris Rock at another table, Will Smith would have been escorted out. Hell, if he had slapped Chris Rock at a Mcdonald's, he would have been escorted out. You don’t get to hit someone and go back to your seat and then have a bunch of celebs comfort you during the commercial break. That’s what should have happened — you hit someone, you leave. As a nanny for many years, if one of my nanny kids hit someone, they were also instructed to leave the room for a break.

That’s a consequence. You hit someone, you get escorted out and you do not get to make your gross emotional speech where you claim that “love makes you do crazy things” — words that ring as very disturbing and triggering to those who have experienced physical violence by someone who claimed to love them, by the way. But Will did make that speech, and that was upsetting. And now it has officially been revealed that BEFORE he made that speech… after the slap, and before the speech, Will was addressed by The Academy. Two actual adults in charge of the whole damn thing asked Will Smith to leave.

Reportedly, he refused.

And this time, without violence, Will asserted himself, and reinserted himself into the audience with no consequences, except for enough support to receive a standing ovation, thereby perpetuating the idea that violence has no consequences.

This is the point I want to make; this is how you normalize violence.

FFS - it is a disease. An incurable disease. You DO NOT make jokes about someone with a damn disease!

And as I said in the news thread, aren't you just sort of sailing past the assumption that Chris Rock knew that Jada had a disease that resulted in her hair loss and shaving her head, instead of choosing to do so as a fashion choice as some Black women do? Hell, even as some non-Black women do, including Demi Moore who the damned joke referenced in the first place? I'm willing to give Chris Rock that much of a benefit of the doubt unless I get evidence to the contrary. Just because it's out there doesn't mean Rock knew about it. I didn't know about it, I'm sure there are others that didn't as well. If Chris Rock made the joke thinking her haircut was a choice rather than because of her disease, he doesn't get a pass on it because intent is not magical, but it makes Smith's reaction even more inexcusable because he immediately went to the place of "Rock insulted MY WIFE because he's a bad person. Not because he didn't know any better. BAR FIGHT MODE ALPHA MALE BULLSHIT ACTIVATED."

[Saxum]

Will Smith has spoken of "cleansing" the country of Trump supporters. I'm not a Trump supporter, but do affirm other people's right to remain alive. That word is code for 'execute', as in ethnic cleansing, so Smith lives in a glass house.

On the other hand, the instant consequences for committing misogyny likely will deter Kid Rock. 

Hollywood celebrities especially have lost all sense of civility and basic respect for others. Time to tone down the rhetoric and skip the not funny jokes. The incident was entirely avoidable.

Lastly, what about Jada Pinkett Smith? A poor joke calling attention to her condition, then her husband emphatically calling it out too. Likely, she just wanted to enjoy the show, and hopefully celebrate Will getting an award.

[BlueOrange]

“Cleansing”?

FFS.

[Iniquitous]

And like I said in the News thread, I disagree with this sentiment. Love doesn't make you do crazy things. Love makes you do loving things. Crazy makes you do crazy things. Regardless of “who is right” in the heat of the moment, if this had happened at a fancy restaurant in Hollywood and Will Smith had slapped Chris Rock at another table, Will Smith would have been escorted out. Hell, if he had slapped Chris Rock at a Mcdonald's, he would have been escorted out. You don’t get to hit someone and go back to your seat and then have a bunch of celebs comfort you during the commercial break. That’s what should have happened — you hit someone, you leave. As a nanny for many years, if one of my nanny kids hit someone, they were also instructed to leave the room for a break.

That’s a consequence. You hit someone, you get escorted out and you do not get to make your gross emotional speech where you claim that “love makes you do crazy things” — words that ring as very disturbing and triggering to those who have experienced physical violence by someone who claimed to love them, by the way. But Will did make that speech, and that was upsetting. And now it has officially been revealed that BEFORE he made that speech… after the slap, and before the speech, Will was addressed by The Academy. Two actual adults in charge of the whole damn thing asked Will Smith to leave.

Reportedly, he refused.

And this time, without violence, Will asserted himself, and reinserted himself into the audience with no consequences, except for enough support to receive a standing ovation, thereby perpetuating the idea that violence has no consequences.

This is the point I want to make; this is how you normalize violence.

And as I said in the news thread, aren't you just sort of sailing past the assumption that Chris Rock knew that Jada had a disease that resulted in her hair loss and shaving her head, instead of choosing to do so as a fashion choice as some Black women do? Hell, even as some non-Black women do, including Demi Moore who the damned joke referenced in the first place? I'm willing to give Chris Rock that much of a benefit of the doubt unless I get evidence to the contrary. Just because it's out there doesn't mean Rock knew about it. I didn't know about it, I'm sure there are others that didn't as well. If Chris Rock made the joke thinking her haircut was a choice rather than because of her disease, he doesn't get a pass on it because intent is not magical, but it makes Smith's reaction even more inexcusable because he immediately went to the place of "Rock insulted MY WIFE because he's a bad person. Not because he didn't know any better. BAR FIGHT MODE ALPHA MALE BULLSHIT ACTIVATED."

You can crow it from the rooftops but you are ignoring the very simple truth. When you love someone, you want to protect that person. How you move to protect that person is entirely, completely, and absolutely up to you - whether you remain calm in the moment and address the situation later or you lose your temper and react in an utterly inappropriate manner right that moment - but it is all driven by the very same thing. Love and the desire to see your loved one not hurt, embarrassed, or made fun of.

THAT is what people are refusing to accept. It. Is. Human. Nature. If you claim it is not then I argue you have never truly loved someone. What is the crux of the matter is Smith lost his temper. Period. Sure, there were mitigating circumstances (Rock has made jokes at their expense before and inserted himself on Smith's Instagram trying to crack jokes about the relationship the Smiths have with Will's ex-wife) that very likely fed into his reaction, but the end-all, be-all is that he lost his temper and let his anger decide how to react. THAT is what he is wrong for. Not his desire to protect his loved one.  The other thing I want to point out is all this 'Jada don't need no man protecting her!' crap.  No woman -needs- a man to protect her. NO ONE is saying that. What people just blithely ignore and love to skip right past is the fact it is natural to want to protect your loved ones. EVERYONE does it whether you want to admit it or not.  I am very sure that Will would hear about it at home if Jada was upset at his actions. Unless of course all those screaming how Jada doesn't need protecting really wanted to see Jada jump from her seat and slap Will in front of everyone - and if that is the case then there is a serious issue with the love of drama in this country.

For future reference - Will was asked to leave the Oscars after he hit Rock. He refused. They (the producers) likely chose not to force the matter so that they could continue the show instead of having the cops there escorting the Smiths out.  I also disagree with his choice to remain after being asked to leave.  Out of respect for everyone else there, he should have left quietly and let the Williams sisters accept in his stead.

[BlueOrange]

You can crow it from the rooftops but you are ignoring the very simple truth. When you love someone, you want to protect that person. How you move to protect that person is entirely, completely, and absolutely up to you - whether you remain calm in the moment and address the situation later or you lose your temper and react in an utterly inappropriate manner right that moment - but it is all driven by the very same thing. Love and the desire to see your loved one not hurt, embarrassed, or made fun of.

Just because someone has a good motivation, doesn’t mean that their actions are justified.

The number of times I’ve said “I need you to stop behaving violently,” and a man has responded with “You have to understand I have good motives”… it sickens me.

I get that his motives were good. His behavior was unacceptable. The only justification for violence is when it’s used to prevent violence that might be worse. “Feeling embarrassed” is not actually an injury that threatens someone’s health. (Yeah, sure, ongoing serious abuse and humiliation is a threat to health, but there’s no evidence that Chris Rock began to approach that level of harmfulness).

If ‘human nature’ was unchangeable, we would be living in hunter-gatherer anarchist communes. The fact that a bunch of people refuse to change, doesn’t mean humans can’t change. It just means that there’s people who would rather make excuses than learn new habits.

[Regina Minx]

You can crow it from the rooftops but you are ignoring the very simple truth. When you love someone, you want to protect that person. How you move to protect that person is entirely, completely, and absolutely up to you - whether you remain calm in the moment and address the situation later or you lose your temper and react in an utterly inappropriate manner right that moment - but it is all driven by the very same thing. Love and the desire to see your loved one not hurt, embarrassed, or made fun of.

Can you point to where I said that Will Smith's emotional and mental reaction wasn't understandable? Where I said he shouldn't have been angry or hurt on Jada's behalf? If I gave you that impression that I was advocating he react in a totally zen way, then I sincerely apologize. I would like to think I was entirely clear that my critique is on the assault on Chris Rock, not on how Will Smith felt about Chris Rock's joke. If I made that mistake I need to do better wording things.

I thought I was focused on and talking exclusively about The Slap, what it implies about toxic masculinity and the normalization of violence. How we give consequences to children who hit others as a way of teaching them that we don't hit other people, we don't applaud Tyson when he hits Victor when Victor made fun of someone Tyson loves.

If you want to say that this is because I've never loved anyone, this conversation is getting too personal and I'll step out.

[Beorning]

Some quick thoughts:

1. I agree with Iniquitous that Smith jumping in to defend his wife doesn't mean he considers her a damsel in distress etc. I agree it is in human nature to react emotionally when our loved ones are being hurt, ridiculed etc. This isn't necessarily about being possessive, treating your loved one as helpless etc., alpha male bullsh*t etc.

2. I have a problem with agreeing with opinions on how Smith's actions sent a wrong message about Jada, women's rights etc. The whole "he should've thought on how this would look" criticism. Come on - the whole situation was Smith acting on emotions. He saw his wife being hurt by a joke, he got angry and jumped at Rock. It's not really fair to accuse him of not thinking the social and political implications through...

3. Protective instincts aside, I think the situation really does show something bad about Smith's state of mind. I mean - I get him getting agry. But... he was in a gathering of hundreds of people. Hollywood bigwigs, including Smith's work colleagues and potential employers. With live cameras rolling and trasmitting around the globe... This is the kind of enviroment where people (even on an unconscious level) tend to self-correct and behave nicely. If Smith ended up ignoring all these social cues and jumped at Rock as if they were alone in a country bar, then it does show his impulse control is quite poor. An average person would have, in the back of their heads, the thought that this was simply not the place or time...

4. On a more general note - I've seen some statements by various Hollywood people decrying Smith and saying they are "traumatized" by the situation. Uhm... seriously? These people claim to be traumatized by a sight of one guy slapping another guy? "Traumatized"... huh. People bombed in the Ukraine are traumatized. Survivors of muggings or shootings are traumatized. Not celebrities who witnessed a single - even if unexpected - slapping incident. Really, these Hollywood people should think on the language they use...

[Iniquitous]

1. I have never said he was right for how he reacted. Quite the opposite, in fact.

2. Everyone harps on his reaction, and with one or two even went so far as to say he was trying to make it all about himself and his honor, or even saying love doesn't make you do things like that.  Wrong. Love - the chemical reaction in the brain towards another person - does make you do crazy things. Argue it all you want, but it does. Change the word crazy to stupid and suddenly everyone would be 'yeah, I did stupid things for love'. Semantics. Stop being pedantic about shit.

3. Every person in this thread has convoluted this discussion and missed what I have been saying. The desire to protect the person you love so that they are not hurting, embarrassed, etc (for future reference I will just use the word love) drove Will to react (in this case, unfortunately & inexcusably, violently) to the humiliation his wife was feeling at the "joke" Chris lobbed at his wife. Ergo, Will's statement of 'love will make you do crazy things' is correct.  He'd have been better off saying 'love will make you do stupid things' since, IMO, violence is stupid, but the sentiment is correct. People will do crazy/stupid things for the people they love.

4. As far as I can tell, NO ONE has said Will was justified in his reaction. The most I have said is I completely understand WHY he reacted.

Why is it that you all just blow past the reason he reacted and jump onto the 'ohhh Will Smith BAD!' bandwagon?  Why have not one of you addressed the fact Chris Rock was WRONG and has yet to apologize.  Sure, he might not have known she had alopecia when he said it but you know damn well he knows now.  Any person worth their salt would have said 'oh shit! I'm sorry! I didn't know and I apologize to you and anyone else suffering from that disease!' My opinion of Chris Rock has dropped immeasurably since the incident simply because he has not acknowledged his wrong in this whole situation.  This is a man who made a movie about Good Hair for his daughters and he cracks a joke (knowingly or not) at the appearance of a black woman with no hair.  If he truly understood what it meant to be a woman with bad or no hair in this society he'd have kept his damn mouth shut.

There are no winners in this. No one was right.  Everyone was wrong.  The only thing that can be explained is WHY Smith reacted - and that doesn't explain why he chose violence, just why he reacted.  There is no excuse or reason for Chris Rock's words.  Comedian or not, he supposedly understands the importance of hair, especially black womens hair, and yet he lobbed that "joke" at a black woman with no hair and still fails to apologize publicly.

[Regina Minx]

At this point I'm going to disengage. I feel attacked and I don't think this can be a productive discussion.

[Azy]

I think I did say that Will Smith acted like a human being.  He is a human being, so that should not be a surprise.  He did use poor judgment and let his emotions get the better of him in the moment.  Most every person on this planet has at some point in their lives.  It does bother me to hear that he was asked to leave, but refused.  After something like that he should have left, because yes, if you assault someone in public then at the very least you're escorted from the building. 

I didn't know about Jada's condition until all of this was brought up, but I don't generally follow celebrity news.  I can't speak to whether or not Chris Rock knew before he made the joke, but he knows now.  Since she had gone public about it before the event, he might have known. 

I think it is one thing for a group of friends to make jokes and tease.  I'm vertically challenged so to speak, and I have a very tall friend who calls me Hobbit.  I've known him a long time, and know he's teasing in a harmless way.  Another friend I've been spending time with calls me a crazy lady, but from him it's an affectionate pet name.  But if a famous person who knows nothing about what having an anxiety disorder is like made fun of anxiety disorders, that would really not be cool. 

[BlueOrange]

Why is it that you all just blow past the reason he reacted

Because every violent abuser I’ve ever encountered wants to shift the conversation away from what they did, and to move the conversation to why they did it.

[RedRose]

I grew up with not mocking handicaps and diseases. I also grew up with not hitting unless in self defense. I don't know how I would react if someone mocked someone I love about something that hurts them. Caveat: I don't know them personally, do not know if one or the other cheated, is violent or whatever.

[Azy]

Because every violent abuser I’ve ever encountered wants to shift the conversation away from what they did, and to move the conversation to why they did it.

That's making the assumption that Will Smith is a violent abuser.  Up until this week I've never heard anything about him getting violent with anyone.  That's not saying that violence is okay, but sometimes people lose their shit.  I once took a bully out with a chair because on that particular day he found my breaking point and broke it.  I'm generally a very zen non violent person, until you push the royally piss me off button.