TERF Island or the UK and Why so many Trans People Don't Feel Safe

[AlizsahTheBard]

So for those lucky enough to never know. TERFs (Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist) or Gender Critical Feminists have been pushing hard in Academia, Media and more to attack trans people. Especially Trans Woman. The sad truth is one of the leading groups in this is Second Wave Feminists. These same people are quick to condemn Inclusion and even go so far as to say only LGB matters. Anything else is frankly fake. The thing is they started so insidious, they began by claiming they cared about children. But over time they changed goalposts and in the UK it's a daily experience to see some Anti-Trans news. They spread lies of how quickly people get treatment when in reality waiting lists can be long as six years. I am currently on two or three years and without GenderGP and being able to afford my care I would be boned.

The worse part is the biggest proponents pushing this is The Heritage Foundation and other Fundamentalist Christian Groups involved in funding and pushing for legislation against gay people or abortions. Not to mention White supremacists are often not far from TERFs.

So many trans people in the UK are terrified and some are thinking of leaving. When I speak of TERF Island I mean a climate that makes me afraid for after Covid. I must pass or I could face harm. I am lucky in that I mostly pass, but not everyone is. Non-Binary people are especially out of luck since TERFs don't believe Non-Binary people exist.

It's scary right now, and many people worry about a new Section 28 which would be hellish, but these talking heads keep publishing TERFs and yet never once interview trans people, despite them writing about us. Often writing about us like we're some sort of aberration.

Were you aware of this in the UK? Does it alarm you that The Heritage Foundation is involved in this?

[Dice]

How much of this is coming from "She who must not be named" openly championing it and thus kind of granting permission to feel its ok? I ask, because from the outside looking in, that seemed to be a big deal.

Or was this an issue of this scale before her views were known?

[AlizsahTheBard]

How much of this is coming from "She who must not be named" openly championing it and thus kind of granting permission to feel its ok? I ask, because from the outside looking in, that seemed to be a big deal.

Or was this an issue of this scale before her views were known?

No doubt she did give them the endorsement they needed. Glinner was small-time compared to her, but a big famous name like Rowling now their movement felt more legitimate and media seemed to think so. Ignoring Rowling totally threw autistic people under the bus.

[Fox Lokison]

I've unfortunately been aware. A lot of my past year has involved an increasing level of online activism - can't do offline thanks to health concerns - around these issues. Needless to say, I've got TERFs crawling in my comments and replies daily, the vast number of which come from the UK and feel empowered, while also insisting their nations have no anti-trans sentiments, just pro-women ones.

[Skynet]

Chances are a lot has changed since, but there was a thread I made and others contributed to about transphobia in UK politics 2 and a half years ago.

TERF alliances with far-right groups in the US and elsewhere have been a pretty big problem. Some even have gone so far as to pal up with alt-right groups, including an infamous interview where a 'gender-critical feminist' Posie Parker spoke with a Neo-Nazi JF Gariepy. This was one of several incidents that caused a former TERF to leave the hate group behind.

The NY Times had a pretty good article on how TERFs made alliances with far-right groups in a shared hatred of transgender and non-binary people.

Another article here.

And here.

While some of this is old news, it goes to show how long-lasting transphobic right-wing movements under the guise of equal rights for women have been gaining prominence in UK politics, even among supposed left-wing and liberal groups, that they haven't got to the same level in the US.

In 2021 recent court rulings regarding puberty blockers for transgender teenagers coincided with an increase of hate crimes against trans and nonbinary people.

In March 31st, 2021 the Washington Post had interviews with 3 prominent transgender British people to ask them about the political situation in their country.

[Lux12]

You know what keeps bugging me? How this ended up happening in the UK. I know that anti trans* sentiment is something that's far from unknown in the western world and outside of it so the fact that there are TERFs in the UK does not in and of itself surprise me, especially considering that the UK had a major hand in exporting such prejudices to the world at large when it began colonizing places all over the world, but what vexes me is why it seems that TERFs are so particularly prominent in the UK. Yes we have them here in the states and I'm not going to pretend they don't exist here, but why is this particular brand of bigotry and bad faith discourse surging in the UK? For a time, it seemed as if the UK was way ahead of the US where a lot of LGBTQIA+ was concerned. I am not an expert on social issues in the UK, so perhaps that's why I felt blindsided by these developments. I knew certainly that there are hardcore rightwingers and people with anti trans* views over there, but I didn't think it was nearly as prevalent as it seems to be. So really if anyone has an explanation, I'd love to hear it.

[Oniya]

Rowling's public statements have done a lot to make the TERFs feel empowered.  Skynet's linked thread also goes into some of the build-up over the past couple years that brought things to this point.

[AlizsahTheBard]

You know what keeps bugging me? How this ended up happening in the UK. I know that anti trans* sentiment is something that's far from unknown in the western world and outside of it so the fact that there are TERFs in the UK does not in and of itself surprise me, especially considering that the UK had a major hand in exporting such prejudices to the world at large when it began colonizing places all over the world, but what vexes me is why it seems that TERFs are so particularly prominent in the UK. Yes we have them here in the states and I'm not going to pretend they don't exist here, but why is this particular brand of bigotry and bad faith discourse surging in the UK? For a time, it seemed as if the UK was way ahead of the US where a lot of LGBTQIA+ was concerned. I am not an expert on social issues in the UK, so perhaps that's why I felt blindsided by these developments. I knew certainly that there are hardcore rightwingers and people with anti trans* views over there, but I didn't think it was nearly as prevalent as it seems to be. So really if anyone has an explanation, I'd love to hear it.

The long and short of this is thus - a lot of Second Wave Feminists are refusing to embrace inclusion as they believe they got their victories. And since Second Wave Feminism took up such root in the UK and in our Academia well you can see what would happen in short. They see talk of inclusion as being against women, they view cries of racism as personal attacks and view those with autism as simply being 'snowflakes' - the UK always had this undercurrent, but yes Rowling did legitimise this which is why it's taken such hold.

[Fox Lokison]

You know what keeps bugging me? How this ended up happening in the UK. I know that anti trans* sentiment is something that's far from unknown in the western world and outside of it so the fact that there are TERFs in the UK does not in and of itself surprise me, especially considering that the UK had a major hand in exporting such prejudices to the world at large when it began colonizing places all over the world, but what vexes me is why it seems that TERFs are so particularly prominent in the UK. Yes we have them here in the states and I'm not going to pretend they don't exist here, but why is this particular brand of bigotry and bad faith discourse surging in the UK? For a time, it seemed as if the UK was way ahead of the US where a lot of LGBTQIA+ was concerned. I am not an expert on social issues in the UK, so perhaps that's why I felt blindsided by these developments. I knew certainly that there are hardcore rightwingers and people with anti trans* views over there, but I didn't think it was nearly as prevalent as it seems to be. So really if anyone has an explanation, I'd love to hear it.

The UK may seem progressive, but there's a lot of the old guff that was never torn up and abolished. It's kind of like painting over rotted wood. Wood's still rotted, problem's still there, but it looks nice and respectable and might con folks. In the past few years, some pretty significant changes have happened in the country, Brexit among them. It's been some very polarizing stuff around concepts like identity - Scottish Independence movements are on the rise, as a non-trans example - and on top of that, trans people proved an easier target than the real sources of misery. Of all the stuff that's been going on, the easiest to rally all sides into hating was probably trans rights. Mostly because scaremongering about trans people is still an incredibly effective tool. It's easy to forget how much of the UK has stuck to tradition on a lot of things, when they paint over it.

On top of that, there has been a strong - minority, but strong - push from those "respectable" gays and lesbians who resent the rest of the community at large. They adhere to respectability politics, which go over very well in the UK. You'll notice there's a long tradition of men dressing up as women as comedy or mockery, but little respect for trans women as serious figures. Those who could play the "we're just like you, the majority" game, were just fine, but everyone else wasn't. Until now, everyone else didn't have much of a voice to counter that. Now they do, and so groups like the LGB Alliance are pushing back and trying to shove them down.

Overall, it's a confluence of factors, and I'm not equipped to speak fully on it. That said, the US was not ready for a strong anti-trans movement. Trump tried, but people's anxieties were less around trans women, and more around jobs, migrants, and democrats. Trans people are seen as a symptom of the democratic party having power, but they're not really the target. Here, it's still Red Team v Blue Team. There, the conversation became "women vs trans rights", which Alizsah outlined excellently. In the US it's a symptom, in the UK it's a focus.

To expand on what Alizsah said - it's critical to note it stopped at second wave, because third wave feminism sought diversity, civil rights, and the first steps of intersectionality. True intersectionality, not the "all classes working together" stuff that second wave used. Second wave was about women being equal to men, in the same system. Third wave was about criticizing the systems as a whole - which meant a lot of white British middle class and upper class academics touting the second wave stuff suddenly weren't looking like the heroes, and their position wasn't looking secure. Fourth wave tends towards overturning the systems.

Basically, and this is very basic, as the schools of thought within are diverse, this is a summary; Second wave said "keep the system, make women equals in it." Third wave said "not all women are equals now, and the system is a part of why, as were some of those second wave women. We must criticize and dissect it." Fourth wave said "fuck the system, the rules are made to oppress us and don't reflect our realities, we should change them." Considering fourth wave feminism is openly sex positive and trans inclusive, whereas second wave feminism is very sex negative and focused on biological essentialism ("The belief that ‘human nature’, an individual's personality, or some specific quality (such as intelligence, creativity, homosexuality, masculinity, femininity, or a male propensity to aggression) is an innate and natural ‘essence’ (rather than a product of circumstances, upbringing, and culture)."), they clash. A lot. But one is entrenched, one isn't.

[Skynet]

Helen Joyce, a British TERF, ended up using a Neo-Nazi as a source for who is "behind the trans global agenda" to promote a conspiracy theory that the entire trans rights movement is spearheaded by 3 Jewish billionaires.

[Fox Lokison]

It's been a shitshow. TERFs are now saying that "antisemitic" is a slur. Or that by pointing out that she chose three Jewish billionaires - and incorrectly said one donated to a group they didn't - that trans people are antisemitic. Because only an antisemite would notice that she picked three Jewish people.

[AlizsahTheBard]

It's been a shitshow. TERFs are now saying that "antisemitic" is a slur. Or that by pointing out that she chose three Jewish billionaires - and incorrectly said one donated to a group they didn't - that trans people are antisemitic. Because only an antisemite would notice that she picked three Jewish people.

I had a break down earlier. Now I am just in apathy - just don't know why the Media keeps platforming JK Rowling despite her ableism, antisemitism, racism and transphobia. They never once have any trans people on to discuss things only fucking terfs and cis academics who mischaracterize it. It's hell.

[Fox Lokison]

I had a break down earlier. Now I am just in apathy - just don't know why the Media keeps platforming JK Rowling despite her ableism, antisemitism, racism and transphobia. They never once have any trans people on to discuss things only fucking terfs and cis academics who mischaracterize it. It's hell.

Cuz "world famous children's author attacked by a persecuted minority" sells. Course, they'll never call us that, just say slurs. But point stands - we've been the butt of the societal joke for ages, why elevate us over her?

's kinda why I'm like "fuck playing by their rules".

[AlizsahTheBard]

Cuz "world famous children's author attacked by a persecuted minority" sells. Course, they'll never call us that, just say slurs. But point stands - we've been the butt of the societal joke for ages, why elevate us over her?

's kinda why I'm like "fuck playing by their rules".

Agreed on the fuck playing by their rules. They will not accept us unless we force them to. No petitions and peaceful protests will make them see us as humans.

[Tolvo]

https://www.transadvocate.com/terf-violence-and-sandy-stone_n_14360.htm

It should be mentioned this has been going on for a while with 2nd wave feminists, this is an article with an interview with Sandy Stone(A trans woman) and her experience with the Gorgons, an anti-trans radical feminist hate/terrorist group during the 70's and Janice Raymond, and how they worked to destroy a trans accepting radical feminist space and attempted to kill Sandy Stone.

[RedRose]

Yes, trans's get it from feminists and non feminists alike. Comments on yahoo articles/fb etc, are very clear. In France, taking a uber means I'm probably going to hear racist or homophobic comments in the convo.

[Skynet]

Vice Magazine did a good video on how healthcare for transgender people is severely underfunded and out of reach of most, with wait lists for live-saving medicine and surgery being up to several years. In some cases such as phalloplasty for trans men, there's only one clinic providing such services in the entire country.

[Fox Lokison]

I think two of my greatest frustrations with the way trans discourse has been going lately, is the focus on autogynephila, and ROGD. Both were incredibly faulty in both their research methods and their results, both of them really only proved how transphobic their creators were, and very little about trans people, and yet both are heavily touted by transphobic figures in both the media and publishing. Lately I've seen far more content about them, yet very little challenging them. It's incredibly worrying, especially since ROGD proposes that social contagion causes trans people to exist

[AlizsahTheBard]

I think two of my greatest frustrations with the way trans discourse has been going lately, is the focus on autogynephila, and ROGD. Both were incredibly faulty in both their research methods and their results, both of them really only proved how transphobic their creators were, and very little about trans people, and yet both are heavily touted by transphobic figures in both the media and publishing. Lately I've seen far more content about them, yet very little challenging them. It's incredibly worrying, especially since ROGD proposes that social contagion causes trans people to exist

Yeah, I get that fear. Most of the stuff they propose is debunked nonsense. People they cite were often laughed at. In truth they have little and while it frustrates me, just remember they have ties to Alt-Right and while it is difficult we are winning and they are either dying out or being exposed as utter frauds. It does frustrate me how rife our Academia is with it and how so many celebrities in UK 'do research' but never once talk to trans people instead of listening to non-trans people and deciding it must be true. There are days I want to scream because honestly you just want it to fucking end? But we gain more victories than losses and the more they expose themselves more they turn the populace against them.

[Fox Lokison]

Have you seen Helen Joyce's new book?

[AlizsahTheBard]

Have you seen Helen Joyce's new book?

Not yet for my sensibilities I generally go looking for this stuff unless it's trending or see it from one of the major trans people like Katy Montgomery.

[Fox Lokison]

Katy's good people. I've enjoyed bantering with her on Twitter. Theres a thread about it that was fascinating, but a little scary as to how much misinformation got published. I know I talked about it earlier in the thread, so I won't harp, but I was definitely a little disheartened by it. Seemed the UK's version of Shrier's book.

[AlizsahTheBard]

And now Joanna Cherry trying to blame trans people for the murder of David Ames making it about herself. This is an SNP MP and QC who should have the whip removed, but yet we have to keep allowing her.

https://twitter.com/sineadactually/status/1450065614559645697

Also, David Paisley left Glasgow because of harassment by her supporters and close affiliates.

https://twitter.com/DavidPaisley/status/1450103583291084810

[Skynet]

As of yesterday the BBC wrote an article alleging that there's a concerted effort by transgender people to force lesbians into having sex with them.

Turns out the article used a lot of bad data, including citing hate groups as primary resources and using discriminatory language such as "Gold Star Lesbian."

The implications proposed by this article suggest that transgender women generally pose a risk to cisgender lesbians in great enough numbers that it is newsworthy, and something the general public should consider as a common occurence rather than a matter of incredibly rare, isolated experiences.

The article uses a deeply flawed study that doesn’t meet BBC guidelines², and anecdotal accounts from known transphobic hate groups who actively campaign for transgender people to lose their legal recognition as their gender.

The article is based on a single self selected study of 80 individuals sourced from Get The L Out³, a group who, prior to the survey, were already united by anti-trans views. The group that was surveyed already believe transgender women are men, and should be prohibited from legal recognition as women / access to female gendered spaces out of fear that access will cause cis women to be sexually assaulted.

This study breaks the BBC’s own guidelines about using surveys as sources for claims in coverage, as it is self selected, with a small sample size and a clear bias held by those self selected to respond.

https://www.bbc.com/editorialguidelines/guidance/surveys

Additionally, the article itself acknowledges that outside of this small sample size self selected study there is basically no evidence for the claim that this is happening in any sort of numbers that would justify generalising this as a widespread experience.

The article dangerously frames this as a widespread issue, whilst simultaneously acknowledging that there is no actual evidence to that effect outside of isolated claims and cherry picked individual cases. You cite a more than 50% figure from Get the L Out’s survey result, with the implication being that most cis lesbians will have experienced coersion into sex by a trans woman, in the same article as the below quote.

Additionally one of the cis women featured in the article warning about trans people turns out to have several sexual assault allegations leveled against her.

She herself admitted to this behavior, so it's not solely speculation.

[Skynet]

The sexual predator the BBC quoted is now calling for transgender women to be lynched as a result of negative publicity from the article.