Israel's conflict, and what it means for everyone else

[Fox Lokison]

*even proportionally

My apologies, that's worded weirdly.

[Fox Lokison]

Whenever I hear things such as the slaughtering of civilians as being done in the name of peace, for safety, for protection, I always get frustrated at how there is a missing part. "For the group doing the killing." And hell it doesn't even really bring them peace, safety, or protection. People are losing their lives, families are being torn apart, groups of people are being devastated. And they're just talked about like their lives mean nothing to people.

I actually missed this in the thread, my apologies Tolvo, but this is something that's been buzzing around in the back of my mind too. I made the comment the other day, that the conversation around this acts like Palestinians are living in a war zone, rather than the framing that their home was turned into one. There's talk about how they should leave, move, etc, but I have to ask myself... what would happen if DC rained bombs on my home? What would I do? I live here. My family and friends live here. Elderly and children live here. This is where I know. I know how to get food, water, I have a home here. This is all I have. I don't have money to go elsewhere. I don't have access to medicine elsewhere. If I'm locked in my state, homes are being razed, humanitarian aid is being slowed or hindered, major thoroughfares are being bombed... I have to run, with nothing but the clothes on my back and whatever I can carry, because my nation and a militant group started a war in my home. The nation that the world looks to, for MY protection, MY safety, MY welfare, is now bombing me. It's attacking me. It's blaming me for militants because they come from my home. And they won't step in because it's "between you and DC."

This is my home. This is my family's home. This is all we know, and all we have. Without it, we literally have nothing. The conversation centering around Israel and Hamas bothers me in this sense. Because yes, while that is a conflict, and there are civilian casualties on both sides, one side is immensely, disproportionately higher, and that's because they have nowhere to turn. It's just so easy to say "Well this is the fault of Hamas" or "this is the fault of Israel", but the reality is, these are two states and governments and armies fighting, while the people are suffering.

These bombings are for the safety and protection of Israel. They aren't for the safety of the Palestinians in these territories. And the bombings don't care if those people die. No one is making Israel bomb these places. There are other ways of fighting this conflict. The nation with the power and ability to employ other methods does carry more of the responsibility. That's why the US carries more responsibility in the Middle East, to protect the civilians it claims it's there to protect. But dropping a bomb on a refugee camp doesn't protect Palestinians. It just proves that even if they leave, run, and become refugees, they still are under attack.

[elone]

Hamas started an increased cycle of conflict by firing rockets from Gaza into Israel. That's a military assault on a sovereign state. Israel responded with the extreme force that Israel always responds with. Hamas knew this would happen. Hamas are using civilians as human shields. I see Hamas' actions as deliberately provoking Israel into killing civilians near to military targets in order to win political points.

That is evil and sick.

One could equally argue that civilians anywhere in Israel are human shields. There are civilians about and around genuine military targets. Hamas lacks the precision of Israeli weaponry. We only have Israels word that they are targeting Hamas, and that word has been shown time and time again as being false. For example, they recently leveled the building house AP and others although all who work there said there were no Hamas on site. They also destroyed a home and all but one child inside. Hamas?

Also, Hamas' may or may not have the duty to resist an occupying force. The means may be debatable, but the intent is just. One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist. It all depends on the perspective.  Israel have violated the Geneva convention and United Nations many times.

Palestinians in the West Bank live in an Apartheid world with no rights except those given to them by military occupation. There is a separate set of laws for Jews and Arabs. Roads are segregated and justice is perverted against the Palestinians. Home demolitions, detention without trial, house invasions by the IDF.  Settlements and their occupants, in place illegally by most accounts, attack with impunity the Palestinians, burn their olive groves and worse. Archaic laws bent to the advantage of Jews prevail.

The PA with Abbas in charge has done nothing but cooperate with the occupiers. Of course, when a Palestinian leader such as Marwan Barghouti comes along who shows promise, he/she is promptly jailed.

Unfortunately, this conflict will end like all the others. Gaza will be destroyed, infrastructure ruined for a decade, thousands will be killed and nothing will be accomplished. The world will once again turn its back and the status quo will be back.

[WhatLiesAbove]

No, there is a very big distinction between them. ISIL was a bunch of foreign adventurers trying to seize territory from others in order to create a religious state. al-Qaeda is an explicitly non-national network of Salafists who conduct attacks internationally in what they see as reprisals against people and entities that offend their interpretation of Islam. They are not resistance groups.

Hamas is a militant group of Palestinians who conduct attacks against the state that occupies Palestine with the explicit goal of liberating Palestine from that occupation. They are a resistance group.

"We don't negotiate with terrorists" is kind of brainless macho posturing in general, but I suppose it makes sense enough with the first group. "Force the world to become Salafist!" is just not a reasonable or even attainable goal. But "end the occupation of our territory" is not only an eminently obtainable goal, it is in fact one required by international laws to which Israel is party.

The goal of Hamas isn’t to liberate Palestinians from Israeli rule. The goal of Hamas is to eradicate Israel. Their charter refuses to allow negotiations with Jews in general, and claims all of Israel as Islamic land. By their own claims, there can be no negotiation with Hamas. There can be no peace process with Hamas.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-13331522

[Fox Lokison]

To play middleman here - a group can be both a resistance movement and a terrorist organization. There's not actually any real reason both can't be true. Their existence as a resistance movement relies on what they're fighting against, and the situation they're fighting in. Hamas is fighting against Israel, for and in land they believe is illegally occupied. And by the same logic, Palestinians could erect another group that fights Hamas, as illegal occupiers of, say, Gaza. They're all resistance movements.

Hamas is also a terror organization for the reasons you linked, WLA, and their employment of direct attacks on civilians, suicide bombings, a desire to eradicate or flush out the Jewish state, and their extremist beliefs. Absolutely, Hamas is fighting for more than just the removal of Israel from the land - but at the same time, by definition, yes, they are a resistance group.

The framing of a resistance group as a noble cause, and a terrorist organization as, well, terrorist, makes it tricky to put the two together, but there's really not a reason they can't be. And the fact that they are resisting Israel in that sense does not mean they are not engaging in terrorism. I think it's important we distinguish what Hamas is, true, but at that point it's kind of semantics. A resistance group engaging in terrorism to achieve their ends is a terrorist organization. The two combine, rather than cancel one another out.

[Skynet]

The popular definition of terrorism is the use of violence to achieve political ends, especially against civilian targets, which is deplorable and condemnable no matter the reason.

However, there remains a bias in regards to its application. Although the Trump administration broke convention when it classified the Iranian government as a terrorist organization (not without justification, even if done out of crass politicking), institutions regarded as 'legitimate states' tend to not get slapped with the label. Furthermore, people in the US and Western world are less likely to apply it to one of their own, as has been seen in the US with conservative reactions to the storming of the capital on January 6th. As I discussed earlier in the thread, the Israeli government is just as guilty of terrorism as Hamas, and the "we don't negotiate with terrorism" can very much be argued from a Palestinian perspective to violently resist.

The settler movement in particular is made up of religious fanatics who believe that God told them to make a Greater Israel ethnically cleansed of non-Jews, while the Israeli government is very much in favor of a one-state solution without Palestinians via the protection and support of said settlers. Even more liberal governments have continued the occupation of annexed West Bank territories, even if not to the same extent as conservatives like Netanyahu. Combine this with playing softball with right-wing terrorist groups that happen to align against Palestinians, what choice do Palestinians have at the negotiating table besides ethnic cleansing or a Jim Crow flavored military occupation that's been going on for more than half a century? Hamas’ mission statement of killing all Jews in the region is despicable, but the settlers are hardly any better than this. Said movement is unpopular among many Israelis, but despite that unpopularity they can act with relative impunity due to state protection. In fact, the Wikipedia article I linked earlier showed that a far-right settler organization was behind the latest spate of evictions in East Jerusalem.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

The long-running dispute over land in Sheikh Jarrah is considered a microcosm of the Israeli–Palestinian disputes over land since 1948.[47] Israel's laws allow Jews to file claims over land in the West Bank and East Jerusalem which they have owned prior to 1948, but reject Palestinian claims over land in Israel which they owned.[48][49][50][51]

According to Ottoman documents presented by the settler organizations, the land in Sheikh Jarrah was bought by Jewish trusts from Arab landowners in the 1870s.[52] The authenticity of these documents has been challenged by Palestinian claimants in Israeli courts.[53][54] In 1956, the Jordanian government, in cooperation with the United Nations' organization for refugees, UNRWA, housed 28 Palestinian refugee families with tenancy rights in a compound on land that Jordan managed as Custodian of Enemy Property. After the Six-Day War, the area fell under Israeli occupation. In 1972, the Israeli Custodian General registered the properties under the Jewish trusts, which in turn demanded that the Palestinian tenants there pay the trusts rent. Eviction orders began to occur in the 1990s.[55] The Jewish trusts sold the homes to a right-wing settler organization, which has since made repeated attempts to evict the Palestinian residents. Under Israeli land and property laws, Israelis have the right to reclaim properties in East Jerusalem owned by Jews before the 1948 Arab–Israeli War, but no similar law exists that would allow Palestinians to claim their lost property inside Israel during the hostilities. The Sheikh Jarrah district houses the descendants of refugees expelled or displaced from their homes in Jaffa and Haifa in the Nakba of 1948.[56][57][58][59] According to the Jerusalem Institute for Policy Research, this approach to property rights is unacceptable in international law.[55]

Settler groups mostly funded by US donors succeeded in having 43 Palestinians evicted from the area in 2002, followed by the Hanoun and Ghawi families in 2008, and the Shamasneh family in 2017.[20] In 2010, the Supreme Court of Israel rejected an appeal by Palestinian families who had resided in 57 housing units in the area of Sheikh Jarrah, who had petitioned the court to have their ownership to the properties recognized.[55] An Israeli court had previously ruled that the Palestinians could remain on the properties under a legal status called "protected tenants" but must pay rent. The move to evict them came after they refused to pay rent and carried out construction on the properties unauthorized by those who the courts had recognized as the owners.[60] In 2021 Israel's Supreme Court was expected to deliver a ruling on whether to uphold the eviction of six Palestinian families from the Sheikh Jarrah neighbourhood on 10 May 2021, after a court ruled that 13 families, 58 people including 17 children: 6 families by 2 May, and a further 7 by 1 August.[20] On 9 May 2021, the Israeli Supreme Court delayed the expected decision on evictions for 30 days, after an intervention from Attorney General of Israel Avichai Mandelblit.[61]

April–May 2021 Ramadan events
At the start of Ramadan in April 2021, Israeli police blocked off access to the Damascus Gate where Muslim worshippers usually congregate during the holiday.[62] President Reuven Rivlin was speaking at the Western Wall for Memorial Day in Israel, and Israeli officials were concerned that the call to prayer from the minarets of the Al-Aqsa Mosque would drown him out. A squad of Israeli police officers raided the mosque and cut the cables to the loudspeakers that broadcast prayers to Muslims.[63] In the wake of protests, Israel removed the barriers at the Damascus Gate two weeks later.[64] On 15 April, a TikTok video of a Palestinian teen slapping an ultra-orthodox Jewish man went viral, leading to several copycat incidents.[65] The next day, tens of thousands of Palestinian worshippers were turned away from Al-Aqsa, on the first Friday of Ramadan when Israel imposed a 10,000-person limit on prayers at the mosque.[66] [65] On the same day, a Rabbi was beaten in Jaffa causing two days of protests.[65] On 22 April, the far-right Jewish supremacist group Lehava held a march through Jerusalem chanting "death to Arabs".[65] On 23 April, after fringe military groups fired 36 rockets at southern Israel, the IDF launched missiles at Hamas targets in the Gaza Strip.[65] In the following days, a Palestinian boy and a 19-year-old Israeli settler were killed. On 6 May, incendiary balloon attacks launched from Gaza set off 6 fires[67]

Ben-Gvir visited Sheikh Jarrah shortly before the clashes began, where he said that the houses belonged to Jews and told police to "open fire" on protesters.[62] Agence France-Presse reported that Israeli settlers had been seen in Sheikh Jarrah openly carrying assault rifles and revolvers leading up to the clashes.[62] A video was posted of Ben-Gvir, in a joking exchange with the deputy mayor of Jerusalem, Arieh King, mocking a Palestinian resident shot by Israeli police during a protest.[68]

In regards to a two-state solution among the broader government, Israel voted "no" against a vote for a non-member observer status of Palestine. Not becoming a full-on member nation, just an observer. With such resistance, how else can a two-state solution be obtained?

One of the root causes of violent acts against Israel within Palestine is the occupation, and the resultant stripping of living conditions and equal treatment under the law that makes generations upon generations radicalized to violence. That is to say, a withdrawal from the Palestinian Territories to allow breathing room and some guarantee of autonomy and living conditions would do much to rob incentives for violent extremism. Whether motivated by a warped understanding of religion or as simple as not losing your only water supply in a desert village, people who feel that their very lives are not at stake are less likely to give up their lives in violent insurrection.

[Kathadon]

The goal of Hamas isn’t to liberate Palestinians from Israeli rule. The goal of Hamas is to eradicate Israel. Their charter refuses to allow negotiations with Jews in general, and claims all of Israel as Islamic land. By their own claims, there can be no negotiation with Hamas. There can be no peace process with Hamas.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-13331522

The real goals of Hamas, and Fatah, is to stay in power, be the sole authority in Palestine, and become legitimate on the world stage. It is why they detain and torture rival political party members and critics. I have never seen a definition of freedom fighters that includes such tactics against their own people.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/23/palestinian-authority-hamas-torture-peaceful-critics-rights-group-says

Let us not forget that this latest conflict started with Hamas firing hundreds of rockets into Israel over the eviction of 8 Palestinian families in the West Bank. An area that is under Israeli military control and the PA's authority, they have no say in or control of it.

So I did some research on why Hamas would suddenly throw away any progress they had made over the last few years toward peace, or at least keeping the former status quo. And it rather looks like this all is cynically political. Martyr blood for at the least retaining, if not increasing, Hamas' position.

https://apnews.com/article/hamas-gaza-europe-middle-east-elections-c748ed6d65f3e30fb3e7eaf47deda7a7
https://www.justsecurity.org/75576/amid-palestinian-election-plans-time-to-challenge-hamas/
https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/04/09/palestinian-elections-parliament-abbas-hamas-west-bank-gaza/
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-56842718

Hamas may have gambled that they could severely weaken Fatah ahead of proposed PA elections, while staving off more right wing parties in Gaza, by a show of force now. The Sheikh Jarrah evictions and police crackdown on the Mosque during Ramadan, both in the West bank and Eastern Jerusalem, look to simply been the convenient tinder for Hamas to spark. Combine this with fears in Israel by Israeli Arabs of a even further rightward slide by the Knesset under Netanyahu's possible new coalition government. Then you get civil unrest within Israel as neighbor turn on neighbor added to the mix.

https://www.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/sheikh-jarrah-families-50-year-battle-for-homes-668140

And all of this strengthens Netanyahu's position, as now the anti-BB groups cannot form their own coalition government.

https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/politics-and-diplomacy/reshuffling-israels-coalition-deck-amid-jewish-arab-violence-668142
https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/politics-and-diplomacy/escalation-prevents-naftali-bennett-from-drafting-sderot-mayor-667854

And I doubt the Israeli government and the IDF minds any of this. Militarily they want to, as they put it, "mow the grass" in Gaza. They have been concerned about rocket build up in Gaza for awhile now.

https://apnews.com/article/israel-militant-groups-f19fdca90bd4484fcdd4a153ee504bdf

Destroying and shooting down thousands of Hamas' homemade rockets. Destroying key military targets, financial infrastructure, and leaders. All of it is a win for Netanyahu.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/05/14/israel-gaza-history/
https://apnews.com/article/hamas-israel-middle-east-israel-palestinian-conflict-government-and-politics-da11b644792f0222360b277ec8a46b4b

All while innocents suffer.

[Fox Lokison]

UN talks have begun.

https://www.npr.org/2021/05/16/997322547/u-n-security-council-meets-over-israeli-palestinian-violence

U.N. Secretary General António Guterres opened the meeting by expressing his concerns that if a cease-fire isn't reached soon, violence will continue and the situation will spiral out of control. He called the current hostilities "utterly appalling."

"This latest round of violence only perpetuates the cycles of death, destruction and despair. ... The fighting must stop, it must stop immediately," Guterres said. "The rockets and mortars on one side, aerial and artillery bombardments on the other, must stop. I appeal to all parties to hear this call. The United Nations is actively engaging all sides for an immediate cease-fire."

Nearly every country participating in Sunday's talks urged both sides to agree to a cease-fire. Representatives acknowledged Israel's right to defend itself and its citizens, while simultaneously saying that Israel is in a more powerful position in this particular conflict, and must act accordingly.

Speaking on Face the Nation on Sunday, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Sunday that Israel will "do whatever it takes to restore order and quiet and the security of our people and deterrence."

When asked what proof the IDF had that Hamas was using the building that also housed the offices of the AP and Al-Jazeera, Netanyahu said Israel had intelligence that Hamas had "an intelligence office ... that plots and organizes the terror attacks" from the building.

I really do wish they'd give a clear picture of what was supposedly in that building. But I think the most horrifying line is this.

Speaking to the U.N. Security Council, Israeli Ambassador Gilad Erdan echoed many of the prime minister's statements, saying Hamas is using civilians as human shields and that Israel has a right to defend itself.

"Israel has made its choice. We will take all steps necessary to defend our people," he told the U.N. "Now, you must make yours. The world is watching."

It really does not look like they're going to stop killing hundreds of civilians just to get at Hamas. I do hope it's just a bluff.

[RedRose]

One thing that always surprises me: how it turns into attacks, fights, demos turning wrong all over the world. I'm one to not believe the rumors but one of my friends has been caught in such a situation and I saw her bruised face after (she lives in USA). My country has banned pro Palestinian demos in many cities (maybe more than that, didn't look), some have happened anyway, and police had to intervene. Shops in those areas closed "just in case".

[Iniquitous]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=208&v=cBma90-aOqE&feature=emb_logo

[WhatLiesAbove]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=208&v=cBma90-aOqE&feature=emb_logo

I'll preface this by saying I did not watch the entire video.

However, to start with, Mr. Velshi was both right and wrong. Yes, Israel needs a new approach to Palestinians, and the US needs a new approach to Israel. We started to see that in the Obama era, when we no longer gave Israel carte blanche excuses to do whatever they wanted. The simple fact is that Netanyahu is a criminal supported by the far-right religious zealots of Israel. These same people who think that it is G-d who claims they have rights to all area's of the West Bank and Jerusalem.

Where is was wrong is by insinuating that Hamas is anything BUT a terrorist organization. This group is responsible for suicide bombings throughout Israel, rocket and mortar attacks in Tel Aviv, and has the unwavering view that Israel has no right to exist. What Ali Velshi fails to understand is that there is NOT a way to negotiate with that sort of thinking. Just like currently there is no way to negotiate with a criminal like Netanyahu.

Now, for everyone else on here I'm going to state the obvious. I am a Zionist. I am unapologetic about that. I am proud to be a Zionist, because I believe without a shadow of a doubt that Israel has a right to exist. That DOES NOT mean that  I don't think Palestinians have a right to exist. Please read that again. It is possible to be a Zionist and think that Palestinians have a right to their own country.

The (in my frank opinion) BS argument that Israel started all this mess is a moot point. We can all get caught up in the "well this side did this, and that side did that". It makes zero fucking difference to those who have died on both sides. The dead don't give a shit about who started what to whom...they only care that they are dead, and nobody who was killed in this conflict should be (except, in my opinion, the Hamas terrorists).

For the record, there is no changing my opinion about Hamas. It won't ever happen. One tends to hold grudges when one is nearly blown up by someone.

So where do we go from here? Well...that is a huge question.

Here is what I feel needs to happen. And please believe me when I say that despite my feelings of absolute disgust and yes...hatred...for Hamas, it does not extend out to the citizens of Gaza. I feel for them, I do. Hamas needs to no longer be in power. Netanyahu and the Likud party need to no longer be in power. The Palestinian Authority and the Israeli government need to come to an understanding. Israel needs to STOP ALLOWING JEWISH SETTLERS (and that is coming from a Zionist).  The PA needs to be allowed to govern, and set up independent infrastructure.

Now, here is where the unpopular argument is going to come from....in case I wasn't being argumentative to begin with.

A third party military....I'm thinking either UN Peacekeepers or NATO...needs to come in and keep the two sides separated. The Israeli military needs to stay out of Gaza and the West Bank. For an interim of several years, Gaza will not be allowed to have any sort of defense. They have already proven that they can't be trusted by allowing a terrorist organization to take control.

Now, is there an exit plan for these third party peace keepers? Nope. I don't know what a withdrawal would look like. I'm smart enough to know that I'm stupid to think that there would be. This sort of thing would take YEARS to implement. However, everyone needs to realize that a sudden withdrawal of Israeli troops from occupied territories would have the same effect of what happened when US troops left Iraq. It would create a power vacuum open to extremist thoughts and warlords, creating a terrorist state within Israel. Hence....peacekeepers.

There is not going to be a solution that is good for everyone. And I have no earthly idea how to answer the Jerusalem problem, except to say that Trump was a complete and utter fucking moron to move the US Embassy there from Tel Aviv. That not only didn't help anything, but created a much bigger problem. But that's Trump...what else is new.

[Tolvo]

That kind of sounds like removing Israel occupying Gaza and having another force come in and occupy them. Which these nations are far more greatly influenced by Israel, meaning there's a high chance it'd become a proxy occupation by Israel anyway.

[WhatLiesAbove]

I have to disagree.

With regards to NATO, most citizens of those countries are greatly disturbed by what is happening in Israel. In France they are becoming more and more openly anti-semitic. This also leads to them not being happy with what is happening is Israel.

With regards to the UN, this would likely fall under the jurisdiction of the UN Security Council. The permanent members include France, Russia, China, the UK, and the US. Two and a half of those members don't give a flying fuck about what happens in Israel, and two openly work with anti-Israel countries like Iran.

[Skynet]

It's going to be very, very hard finding any potential peacekeeping third party looking at the conflict and go "yeah, I want a piece of that" that isn't some trigger-happy Blackwater merc knockoff.

[Kathadon]

That kind of sounds like removing Israel occupying Gaza and having another force come in and occupy them. Which these nations are far more greatly influenced by Israel, meaning there's a high chance it'd become a proxy occupation by Israel anyway.

And would remove the cost burden on Israel. Which to be honest is the only constant price they pay day to day, week to week. That removes any impetuous to bargain and they can simply wipe their hands of any culpability to Gaza and the West Bank going forward. Since Israel (and the U.S.) do not recognize the authority of the ICC or the 4th Geneva convention.

Also it frees up the IDF in a big way. That would make Jordan nervous. Syria nervous. Iran nervous. Hell maybe even Russia nervous.

[Tolvo]

That sounds rather horrifying and like it would lead to countless more deaths and greater wars in the Middle East if that were to happen as well as Israel possibly expanding into an empire.

[Kathadon]

That sounds rather horrifying and like it would lead to countless more deaths and greater wars in the Middle East if that were to happen as well as Israel possibly expanding into an empire.

I think militarily empire building is as dead as the dinosaurs. More likely to be proxy wars across the entire Middle East that would make current day Syria and Yemen look calm. Worst case: Total war across the Middle East with Russia and China backed Iran vs. Israel and the West.

But, yes, countless deaths, displacements, refugees.

[Tolvo]

But why would you want those things?

[Kathadon]

But why would you want those things?

Who is this to? Because I am arguing against a third party taking over operations in Gaza and the West Bank.

[Tolvo]

Ah sorry I accidentally confused your posts and WhatLiesAbove together as if it was a continuous conversation rather than two different people. That is why I replied like that.

[WhatLiesAbove]

But why would you want those things?

Why would I want what things?

[Tolvo]

No I was saying I totally confused you two as one person, so the question I asked was basically pointless as it was responding  to a sort of combination of what both of you were saying. Which is not reality, and really changed how the conversation read.

[Fox Lokison]

It's going to be very, very hard finding any potential peacekeeping third party looking at the conflict and go "yeah, I want a piece of that" that isn't some trigger-happy Blackwater merc knockoff.

Or someone who isn't just going to take advantage, either. It really just sounds like occupation, but with extra steps.

[Kathadon]

I have to disagree.

With regards to NATO, most citizens of those countries are greatly disturbed by what is happening in Israel. In France they are becoming more and more openly anti-semitic. This also leads to them not being happy with what is happening is Israel.

With regards to the UN, this would likely fall under the jurisdiction of the UN Security Council. The permanent members include France, Russia, China, the UK, and the US. Two and a half of those members don't give a flying fuck about what happens in Israel, and two openly work with anti-Israel countries like Iran.

I was under the impression that France was becoming more and more Islamaphobic under Macron, recently. Unless, you are talking about Le Pen and her party which is an entire OTHER thread in itself.

For the U.K., I would assume Israel's biggest concern was the recent protests at which former Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn attended. A bad place for him to be, what with a giant inflatable anti-semetic balloon on hand feet away from where he spoke.  Not to mention the terrible things caught on video yelled from the Pro-Palestine motorcade. They are all being variously condemned now. Boris has basically towed the U.S. line on this as far as I am aware.

As to the 1/2. The "progressive" caucus in the U.S. Another thread in itself. But my prevailing opinion is their views change with whatever is big on social media, until the democratic establishment handlers reign them in to tow the part line. Such a disappointment ("You were meant to be the chosen ones! Not join them!"). And Biden, Schumer, and Pelosi are the ones in charge. They may hate Netanyahu, but they are deep in the pockets of the military industrial complex as bad as any Republican. And Israel's defense is big business. Each Hamas rocket shot down by the Iron Dome is worth $50,000.00 dollars, after all.

[Oniya]

Islamophobia doesn't immediately mean pro-Israel, and antisemitic doesn't automatically mean pro-Islam.  Heck, we've got people in the States that can tick both boxes.