President Joe Biden

[gaggedLouise]

Trump didn't attend the inauguration but one tradition he did uphold was to leave a personal letter to the incoming President on the Resolute Desk. Biden confirmed this to reporters yesterday and when he was asked about the contents of the letter, replied simply "It was a nice letter but I won't discuss anything more about it until I've had a chance to talk with the man who wrote it".

I love that reply, both because it shows that Biden doesn't shy away from talking to Trump in person, and because this is the very opposite of how Trump would have handled a similar incident: he would have had no problem with talking fast and loose to the media aobut such a communication , on the spot,and of course putting his own spin on it.

[Beguile's Mistress]

I'll bet it was a 'perfect' letter, though. 

[Laughing Hyena]

I'll bet it was a 'perfect' letter, though. 

Was it the letter I?

[Beguile's Mistress]

Almost always is. 

[Chulanowa]

So what happens when a man who was not only elected, but did not even try to be elected, declares himself president, and uses violence, rioters, and assassinations to claim that he is the president of his nation?

Well apparently, he gets the approval and support of Joe Biden;

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. President-elect Joe Biden’s administration will continue to recognize Venezuelan opposition leader Juan Guaido as the South American country’s president, Anthony Blinken, Biden’s nominee for secretary of state, said on Tuesday.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-biden-state-venezuela-idUSKBN29O2PE?fbclid=IwAR3feOs1qrhpFxh7mhLNjbeDBMYLYZw78pLlv9bwqJ_hZQZv4akrXWMKbyo

[Laughing Hyena]

I think Fox, OAN and Newsmax just took a viagra pill cuz they be erect as all hell. Oh boy I'm not going to hear the end of this for weeks. But let's be real, Trump wouldn't give a damn about that either.

[Beorning]

So what happens when a man who was not only elected, but did not even try to be elected, declares himself president, and uses violence, rioters, and assassinations to claim that he is the president of his nation?

Well apparently, he gets the approval and support of Joe Biden;

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-biden-state-venezuela-idUSKBN29O2PE?fbclid=IwAR3feOs1qrhpFxh7mhLNjbeDBMYLYZw78pLlv9bwqJ_hZQZv4akrXWMKbyo

Wait wait wait. As far as I know, this is widely out of the wider context of the Venezuelan political crisis. Yes, Guaido declared himself to be the president... because the Venezuelan opposition disputes the whole validity of the last presidential elections. Not to mention, those elections weren't actually fair and even... And so, with no legitimate president having been elected, Guaido was declared to be the acting president, as he's the head of the National Assembly - who is named as being acting president in such situations by the Venezuelan constitution...

Overall, the Venezuelan situation is deeply complicated and it's not really fair to simplify it as evil usurper Guaido trying to illegally oust the legitimate and non-threatening president Maduro...

[Chulanowa]

Imagine applying that argument to anywhere else though.

"Donald Trump declared himself president, due to the Republican's party disputing the validity of hte last presidential election. This declaration means that the elections were indeed not fair or even, and so there is no legitimate president. On January 6, opposition leaders and their supporters were brutally suppressed by Biden-loyal forces at the capitol after trying to challenge the election results. The Opposition-led Senate has put forth Senator Ted Cruz as the interim president of the United States. There is talk of enlisting the aid of the Russian military to secure the claims of the Opposition."

It's some parties who lost an election (after encouraging their supporters to not vote in said election as a form of protest) declaring themselves the winners, and attempting to use outside military forces to seize power through a coup.

Whatever legitimacy their claims might have (and it doesn't look like much to be had to me) the point where you bring foreign guns in to try to seize power through force is the point where all legitimacy is lost. Like if you're going to stage a coup, at least stage an honest one with your own nation's military. Like Chavez did 

[stormwyrm]

No illusions about Biden. He is going to sponsor the candidate with the best chance of holding stable power in the country and friendly to the United States. Whether they are the true democratically-elected choice of the people or if they will even be good for their welfare is practically never a serious consideration except only insofar as it influences the above two primary criteria. This has generally been the foreign policy of the United States and many Western powers in such situations for much of the 20th century, and is the policy that created and propped up the brutal right-wing US-friendly dictatorships that pepper the history of many nations in South and Central America in particular. It is amoral and hypocritical but that's how politics, especially international politics, tends to be.

Biden never did give off the vibe of being a true progressive, so this is entirely within the realm of expectations. I would be more disappointed in a hypothetical President Bernie Sanders doing the same thing, but still not entirely surprised. Every single US president from at least William McKinley onwards would probably do something similar.

[Beorning]

Imagine applying that argument to anywhere else though.

"Donald Trump declared himself president, due to the Republican's party disputing the validity of hte last presidential election. This declaration means that the elections were indeed not fair or even, and so there is no legitimate president. On January 6, opposition leaders and their supporters were brutally suppressed by Biden-loyal forces at the capitol after trying to challenge the election results. The Opposition-led Senate has put forth Senator Ted Cruz as the interim president of the United States. There is talk of enlisting the aid of the Russian military to secure the claims of the Opposition."

The problem is, this analogy is false. There was nothing wrong with the US elections aside from Trump's spurious claims. There *were* issues with the elections that got Maduro elected, starting with the opposition candidates being suppressed and ending with the actual problem whether these elections were legal in the light the Venezuelan constitution. Analogies are all fine, but there are also *facts*.

It's some parties who lost an election (after encouraging their supporters to not vote in said election as a form of protest) declaring themselves the winners, and attempting to use outside military forces to seize power through a coup.

Whatever legitimacy their claims might have (and it doesn't look like much to be had to me) the point where you bring foreign guns in to try to seize power through force is the point where all legitimacy is lost. Like if you're going to stage a coup, at least stage an honest one with your own nation's military. Like Chavez did 

And here's where we disagree. If you're fighting a tyrant, what's wrong with calling for foreign aid? Yes, that coup attempt was stupid as heck and if Guaido was quietly supporting it, then he made a mistake. But in general, calling for foreign help (even of the diplomatic form) against tyranny at home is not wrong in itself.

BTW. A question: if you are against Guaido trying to oust Maduro (and Biden's support for Guaido), then are you also against Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya and the fact that quite a few countries seem to recognize her at the de facto president of Belarus?

[Haibane]

This ongoing process of trying to paint Biden's win as somehow flawed needs to stop. Trump and Trump alone believes it and he is mentally unstable. He simply shouted it long enough and loud enough until his followers took it up as a battle cry. He lost a fair election which is what happens in a democracy, he just couldn't face it because he's Donald Trump. So lets please put that disgusting chapter in US politics aside. We should not speak of it in analogous terms in comparison to other elections that are rigged and whose legality and fairness are very much in doubt.

[Gadifriald]

Is Joe Biden a perfect president? No. However, he is a sane man who will be a competent President of the United States with competent people around him in a time when the US and the world needs that very badly!

[Chulanowa]

This ongoing process of trying to paint Biden's win as somehow flawed needs to stop. Trump and Trump alone believes it and he is mentally unstable. He simply shouted it long enough and loud enough until his followers took it up as a battle cry. He lost a fair election which is what happens in a democracy, he just couldn't face it because he's Donald Trump. So lets please put that disgusting chapter in US politics aside. We should not speak of it in analogous terms in comparison to other elections that are rigged and whose legality and fairness are very much in doubt.

No, it's quite analogous. The "opposition" creates massive political problems, cites those problems as "the election was flawed" and then uses that claim of flawed elections to engage in violence and stage a coup.

Venezuela's opposition was plotting with the Trump administration to stage a coup, prior to the election in question. This is on top of several prior attempts, and a lot of violence and terrorism. But sure let's take their word that the election process was "flawed." I'm sure that the sort of people who set black people on fire for supporting their political opponents are really the guys we can trust! Who couldn't believe the guys who set fire to an aid convoy, on camera, and then try to use it to get the US to send in armed aid for their cause. Who burn food and medical supplies in order to create shortages.

You'll forgive me if I am not impressed by Biden slavishly continuing Donald Trump's policy of unconditional and uncritical support for these assholes.

[Vekseid]

In the future, Chulanowa, please avoid using state-controlled media as a source (regarding your teleSUR link).

[Haibane]

No, it's quite analogous. The "opposition" creates massive political problems, cites those problems as "the election was flawed" and then uses that claim of flawed elections to engage in violence and stage a coup.

No. You are wrong. There are flawed elections and fair elections. Nov 3 2020 was fair. Venezuela's election was not.

It is dangerous nonsense to moan and bitch and struggle and cause violence after a fair election. It is extremely reasonable to contest and moan after an unfair one.

End of discussion.

[Chulanowa]

In the future, Chulanowa, please avoid using state-controlled media as a source (regarding your teleSUR link).

For some reason I had TeleSUR confused with Telemundo, like a big dumbass  Though, given the non-VZ media's reporting on how fond "the opposition" is of setting supplies, and people, and voting machines on fire, I find the TeleSUR reporting pretty believable.

But I'll keep a better eye out just the same. 

No. You are wrong. There are flawed elections and fair elections. Nov 3 2020 was fair. Venezuela's election was not.

It is dangerous nonsense to moan and bitch and struggle and cause violence after a fair election. It is extremely reasonable to contest and moan after an unfair one.

End of discussion

No, I am not wrong. In both cases, a corrupt and violent "opposition" party has engineered a scenario where they can pretend legitimacy in claiming "fraud," and use that as a "justification" for a violent coup attempt. In neither case are the claims legitimate, nor is the response valid.

The United States should not be supporting Guaido or the "opposition." If you want to say we shouldn't support Maduro either, okay, I'm down with that too (hell, let's just dump the Monroe Doctrine entirely, 100%). But all Biden (and Trump's) policy does is cause further instability, help guarantee more violence, and create an economic situation via sanctions where poverty spreads and deprivation of the civilian populace grows even worse.

That's what the danger is.

[Vekseid]

In other news Biden has halted support for the Saudi atrocities against Yemen.

During his Senate confirmation hearing on Tuesday, Secretary of State-designate Anthony Blinken said President Joe Biden’s administration would end U.S. support for Saudi Arabia’s military intervention in Yemen, which in Blinken’s words had “contributed to … the worst humanitarian situation anywhere in the world.”

As part of this shift in posture, Blinken said the administration would immediately review an order issued by former secretary of State Mike Pompeo last week designating Yemen’s Houthi rebels a terrorist organization. Pompeo’s order, which went into effect Tuesday, was emblematic of the Trump administration’s spiteful and chaotic exit, being one of several parting booby traps set by the outgoing secretary in an apparent attempt to undermine Biden’s foreign-policy plans.

[Haibane]

Excellent news. This last week has been very heartening for the world looking at American politics from the outside. Idiocy and spite has been replaced by common sense and decency.

[Chulanowa]

In other news Biden has halted support for the Saudi atrocities against Yemen.

Well, even I can't complain about that.

Though I hope it extends further, into actually pushing back against the Saudis for their crimes and offering restitution to Yemen for our part in all of it.

[TheGlyphstone]

I cant imagine he will push for anything with teeth against the Saudis.  We still need their oil too much, tacitly tolerating their actions goes back as far as Clinton if not further.

[Andol]

So, you're saying that rejoining the Paris Accord is bad?  That rejoining the World Health Organization is bad?  That cancelling the Keystone XL Pipeline is bad?  Cancelling the 1776 Commission is bad?

This is what he has done on literally his first day in office.

My personal opition on these things was that the first one is good... Rejoining WHO isn't a good idea until they reform how they handle themselves, but maybe having not had us around for a few years will make them more willing to do so. What irked me the most was cancelling the Keystone XL Pipeline at a time that a lot of people are out of work anyway and putting more out of work doesn't seem like a smart idea.

Can't speak for the 1776 Commission, because I have no clue what it is

[Oniya]

The 1776 Commission was a pushback against the 1619 Project.  Trump intended the former to be used in American schools.

The Commission was widely criticized as 'pseudohistorical' by the American Historical Association, citing the lack of 'any consultation with professional historians of the United States,' and pointing out things like 'the implied condemnation of Progressive Era legislation-workplace health and safety legislation, regulation of the production of food and drugs, the elimination of child labor, and other social goods'.

[Montagne]

My major concern with the incoming Biden administration as a leftist who does not live in the USA; and who has no major buy in to US politics other than what effect the USA has internationally, is that any legitimate criticism of the Biden administration from the left is going to be immediately countered by people's relief that it's not Trump anymore.

I feel like this trend began during the Trump administration when the FBI and CIA ended up with a higher approval rating among liberals than among conservatives (for the first time I imagine ever). The liberal media for the past month has been filled with positive images of cops and the military when it felt like only a few months prior liberals were generally waking up to the systemic problems inherent on both those institutions.

The Republicans have now become so extreme that any left-wing criticism of the Biden administration can easily be countered as beyond the pail because "it is enabling the republicans, who are a threat to democracy". Or just generally ignored by peoples rush to "go back to normal". This is dangerous in the long run because it A) doesn't address the myriad destabilizing effects the USA has on the international community, and B) doesn't address any of the domestic issues that lead to Trump and will lead to the election of an establishment republican with a similar contempt for democracy being elected in 2024.



***

These concerns aside, I'm very happy to see Biden signing back up to the Paris Climate Accords, and the Iran Deal. There are definite differences between the two parties and those are very positive moods in the right direction. I'm now hoping he will take a less confrontational, and more reconciliatory approach towards China to cool off the growing new cold war between the two superpowers. That would really help avert long term disaster and improve international order globally.

[Fox Lokison]

My major concern with the incoming Biden administration as a leftist who does not live in the USA; and who has no major buy in to US politics other than what effect the USA has internationally, is that any legitimate criticism of the Biden administration from the left is going to be immediately countered by people's relief that it's not Trump anymore.

I feel like this trend began during the Trump administration when the FBI and CIA ended up with a higher approval rating among liberals than among conservatives (for the first time I imagine ever). The liberal media for the past month has been filled with positive images of cops and the military when it felt like only a few months prior liberals were generally waking up to the systemic problems inherent on both those institutions.

The Republicans have now become so extreme that any left-wing criticism of the Biden administration can easily be countered as beyond the pail because "it is enabling the republicans, who are a threat to democracy". Or just generally ignored by peoples rush to "go back to normal". This is dangerous in the long run because it A) doesn't address the myriad destabilizing effects the USA has on the international community, and B) doesn't address any of the domestic issues that lead to Trump and will lead to the election of an establishment republican with a similar contempt for democracy being elected in 2024.



***

These concerns aside, I'm very happy to see Biden signing back up to the Paris Climate Accords, and the Iran Deal. There are definite differences between the two parties and those are very positive moods in the right direction. I'm now hoping he will take a less confrontational, and more reconciliatory approach towards China to cool off the growing new cold war between the two superpowers. That would really help avert long term disaster and improve international order globally.

Seconding this wholeheartedly.

[Montagne]

Seconding this wholeheartedly.

And there was me concerned this would be a very unpopular opinion. Phew.