What's in the news?

[RedRose]

Stabbing in Marseille. I have acquaintances who witnessed it and had to run... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/01/french-police-operation-under-way-at-marseille-train-station

[Shekinah]

Stabbing in Marseille. I have acquaintances who witnessed it and had to run... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/01/french-police-operation-under-way-at-marseille-train-station

I'm glad your acquaintances are safe.
Isn't that like a second major accident in a few weeks? (the acid throwing one coming to mind.)

[RedRose]

Yup... though it's not yet proven the acid attack is terror as opposed to random, non politicized crazy...

[Lustful Bride]

Large shipment of North Korean weapons seized, headed for Egypt.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/a-north-korean-ship-was-seized-off-egypt-with-a-huge-cache-of-weapons-destined-for-a-surprising-buyer/ar-AAsL8CS?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=HPCOMMDHP15

[gaggedLouise]

Unless you're on the moon, you will have heard by now about the horrible street massacre in Las Vegas. A retirement-age sniper firing into a concert crowd from the 32nd floor of a hotel - this is straight out of The Dark Knight or something... 

Weirdly enough, the first tiny cue I got of it was when a little old lady on the train, looking down at her phone, said to her friend "Now what are they doing in Las Vegas?". I asked her a minute later what she meant, but she replied "I get these newsletters and heads-ups, I think it was just some film premiere or something...". Clearly she hadn't read it (and I don't have a smartphone). Only an hour later did I find out what had happened.

[midnightblack]

That actually reminds of an episode in the X-Files, called "Blood" (I think). It was about people seeing violent messages on electronic displays until they were driven to a murderous rage. One of the main characters in that episode eventually buys a heavy-duty sniper and takes position atop a tower. I think this was partly inspired by an earlier shoot-out in the US history, involving another man with some expertise in firearms that got to gunning down a college campus from a look-out tower. My memories of the incident are kind of murky, but I think something like this played out before.

[Serephino]

Seriously, when are our elected officials going to wise up and take common sense measures to try and prevent this shit?  What is going on here?  I remember a time when stuff like this was truly a shock to the system.  Now I wake up to see it on my Yahoo homepage and the response is, really?  Again?  What set it off this time?  The shock is gone because it happens so often anymore.  And fucking Congress swears they'll do something the next day, but then the NRA just hands them a whole bunch of money and they conveniently forget about it.

[GloomCookie]

Because the media makes a big deal out of it and people think they can grab the same sort of attention if they do something equally if not more shocking. The more people react with negativity, the more these people think they're spreading their agenda, counter-intuitive as that may seem. In their minds, it's acceptable to target people they don't like and kill them, thus making that group scared to gather. The Orlando Nightclub shooting was all about a guy who thought he could scare gay people into not returning to the club and also fulfilling his personal fantasy of ridding the world of gay people, even if he hasn't actually made a dent in the gay population.

Serephino, I think you're confusing the tool for the intention. A big sniper rifle isn't really necessary for hunting or anything, and most gun owners keep their rifles and pistols mostly for decoration, with no real intention of ever using them (except maybe one or two for hunting, defense, etc.).  As someone who has grown up in a gun culture, people understand firearms are dangerous and take precautions to keep them out of the hands of children. The vast majority have no intention of ever pointing a gun at another person. That being said, the person who decides to do so is going to carry out their mad scheme to inflict pain, terror, and death given the tools that they have. No gun? What about using a van to run someone down?

These people plan for this. Law Enforcement can't react to everything without becoming a police state, with checkpoints everywhere and random searches every 10 feet. Even in that kind of environment, all it would do is make it slightly harder for someone who deliberately plans out an attack. The police can't know in advance who a potential threat is unless they already have a reason to suspect them. Someone with a clean record who has been planning this stuff for months? It's doubtful they'll appear on anyone's radar, and by the time anyone suspects anything, it's too late.

[WindFish]

It's a sad reflection of modern society that mass shootings have become the new normal, and it's even sadder to know that nothing will ever be done to help prevent them from happening again. How many more innocent lives will be lost before something is done? Seems like we have the same pointless argument every time that this happens, nothing gets done, and I can't blame people for not being surprised that this happens again.

It's just as sad that I've seen people more interested in playing the blame game than having any sympathy for the victims. I've already seen people try to blame Muslims or Antifa for this. For fuck's sake, that's not helping anyone.

It's sad to see that people have such a lack of compassion and empathy these days. The victims and their families are the ones we should be thinking about, not the shooter.

[Oniya]

I think this [X-files episode] was partly inspired by an earlier shoot-out in the US history, involving another man with some expertise in firearms that got to gunning down a college campus from a look-out tower. My memories of the incident are kind of murky, but I think something like this played out before.

You're thinking of Charles Whitman, who was an ex-Marine who first killed his mother and wife and then holed up in the clock tower on the University of Texas campus and just shot random people until police finally broke in and took him out.

(And yes, the climax of 'Blood' was inspired by that incident.)

[RedRose]

I'm unsure people were more compassionate before... I'm reading a book about European history. Monsters, serial killers, and even terror attacks are old.

[Serephino]

I grew up around guns.  My dad was a hunter and had a whole collection in a cabinet.  Because of his cowboy thing he even had pearl handled pistols under the bed.  And I was taught at a young age those were grown up things and I was not to touch them.

And yes, determined people will find a way.  That doesn't mean we should just give up and make it easy for them.  I've read articles where common sense things like tougher and more extensive background checks could have kept the weapons used out of a mass murderer's hands.  One guy had been on the FBI watch list for 5 years, but was taken off.  You don't get put on that list for that long for no reason.  They always do extensive reporting on the shooter, interview everyone who ever knew the person, and there's always a few who said their guts told them something wasn't right.

I am pro common sense measures and better mental health resources rather than sitting around with our thumbs up our asses waiting for the next one.

[Cognitive Brainfart]

It's a sad reflection of modern society that mass shootings have become the new normal, and it's even sadder to know that nothing will ever be done to help prevent them from happening again. How many more innocent lives will be lost before something is done? Seems like we have the same pointless argument every time that this happens, nothing gets done, and I can't blame people for not being surprised that this happens again.

It's just as sad that I've seen people more interested in playing the blame game than having any sympathy for the victims. I've already seen people try to blame Muslims or Antifa for this. For fuck's sake, that's not helping anyone.

It's sad to see that people have such a lack of compassion and empathy these days. The victims and their families are the ones we should be thinking about, not the shooter.

I see what your point is and I agree. Having petty arguments about "whodunit" isn't going to solve the overall problem or stop these things from happening again. And you're absolutely right that people don't care much (as long as it doesn't happen to them ofc). People have become desensitized to violence like this over the years. If something happens, not many people actually have sympathy. They will talk about it and argue about it but not out of sympathy.
It's the world we live in these days, I suppose. I'm not sure what can be done about it :/ You can't really order people to care. Honestly, I think this will just turn into the same as always, an argument about gun ownership with a bit of left vs. right thrown in.

Though, I think that if some group or ideology is the catalyst for these events, it should be called out. We know that Islam objectively has a track record when it comes to these sorts of attacks. Now people are saying that this shooter was associated with Antifa. I've seen a screenshot from the Antifa Facebook which was since deleted. Of course, this is just speculation. May be true, may be false. I'm not claiming to know or advocate for either. All I'm saying is that if any ideology persuades people to hurt others, it should be questioned.
We can't forget sympathy towards the victims but we also shouldn't forget about finding the cause.

[TheGlyphstone]

Though, I think that if some group or ideology is the catalyst for these events, it should be called out. We know that Islam objectively has a track record when it comes to these sorts of attacks. Now people are saying that this shooter was associated with Antifa. I've seen a screenshot from the Antifa Facebook which was since deleted. Of course, this is just speculation. May be true, may be false. I'm not claiming to know or advocate for either. All I'm saying is that if any ideology persuades people to hurt others, it should be questioned.
We can't forget sympathy towards the victims but we also shouldn't forget about finding the cause.

We do need to be careful with statements like this, though, because making over-generalizations is where prejudice and '-isms' get their routes. Islam is a massive body with over a billion and a half adherents. Certain extremist subgroups of Islam advocating violence is an objective fact. But extending that to the entirety of Islam, many of whom find such violence abhorrent (especially when they are subjected to it, religious extremists hate no one quite as virulently as heretics within 'their' faith) is the sort of fear-mongering that puts people like Trump into power.

[Sara Nilsson]

We know that Islam objectively has a track record when it comes to these sorts of attacks.

I think you mean most religions, the others are not better. Singling out one of them is not fair and just adds to the narrative that Islam is the bad one but christianity etc are all so nice. (http://www.upworthy.com/a-troll-demanded-a-muslim-man-show-examples-of-christian-terrorists-he-delivered?c=ufb2) it leads to this. People thinking christianity is all nice and hasn't done anything bad since the crusade but its ok to vilify Islam.

[Oniya]

What we know about the shooter (and most of the major news services seem to be reporting the same thing from a cursory Google search) is that the shooter was a 64-year-old white male who had recently conducted a number of large gambling transactions.  DAESH has claimed that he acted on their behalf, but an investigation by the FBI revealed that he had no ties with the terrorist group.  He was found dead in a hotel room from a gunshot wound, possibly self-inflicted.  Also found in the room were at least 10 rifles, according to police.  He had been staying in the room for several days. (Source 1) (Source 2)
(Source 3)(Source 4)

Some sources are making note that the shooter's deceased father had once been on the FBI's 'Most Wanted' list for several bank robberies, and had some severe mental health issues - other than a possible genetic link, I don't know that this is particularly relevant.

[Valerian]

And now Tom Petty has died:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tom-petty-legendary-rocker-is-dead-at-66/

[marauder13]

And now Tom Petty has died:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tom-petty-legendary-rocker-is-dead-at-66/

Ummm... not yet, according to the link.

[Valerian]

Weird.  Two and a half hours ago that link said he was dead, as did all the other hits I was finding on Google.  Now about half the hits say that he's dead and the other half say he's still alive.   

[Regina Minx]

Schrodigers Petty.

[Cognitive Brainfart]

We do need to be careful with statements like this, though, because making over-generalizations is where prejudice and '-isms' get their routes. Islam is a massive body with over a billion and a half adherents. Certain extremist subgroups of Islam advocating violence is an objective fact. But extending that to the entirety of Islam, many of whom find such violence abhorrent (especially when they are subjected to it, religious extremists hate no one quite as virulently as heretics within 'their' faith) is the sort of fear-mongering that puts people like Trump into power.

I am not fearmongering anyone. My husband is a Muslim and we actually agree on this issue. What I'm saying is that the vast majority of terrorist attacks (in Europe at least, which is where I live) have been done in the name of Islam and that's just a fact. I'm not saying every Muslim is a terrorist, I know they are not and I'm not implying that they are. But the ideology itself clearly has something in it that makes the extremists think it's ok to kill those they perceive as infidels, which is often even other Muslims because they aren't 'religious enough to be true Muslims'. If we don't point a finger at these extremists because we don't want to make the non-extremist Muslims upset, then we will never solve the problem. And, honestly, these extremists are giving all Muslims a bad name, as we can clearly see. The attitude toward Muslims is pretty bad in Europe and US. They should also want to weed out the guys who are killing people in the name of the religion they say is peaceful.

Edit: when I mentioned my husband, I didn't mean to say "see he also confirms my opinion". I merely meant to show that I'm not fearmongering about Islam because I wouldn't be married to him otherwise.

I think you mean most religions, the others are not better. Singling out one of them is not fair and just adds to the narrative that Islam is the bad one but christianity etc are all so nice. (http://www.upworthy.com/a-troll-demanded-a-muslim-man-show-examples-of-christian-terrorists-he-delivered?c=ufb2) it leads to this. People thinking christianity is all nice and hasn't done anything bad since the crusade but its ok to vilify Islam.

I'm not singling out anyone. I'm not religious and I know that all religions have their shit to own up to. I'm not going to go around claiming that Islam is bad and Christianity is good. In my view, they are all bad (I'm sorry if this offends someone, it's just how I feel), so I won't put any religion before any other. It's just that Islam specifically was mentioned in the post I was replying to, so I went with it.

As to the link you posted. The dates listed are 1996 x2, 2017, 2016, 2015 x2, 1995, 1990s, 1989. I might have missed some. But if you compare this to the list of attacks just in EU in the name of Islam since 2014, the numbers are much higher. Since 2014, in the article, there were 4 listed (2015 had 2). Now I'm not saying that those are all of them, just going by the ones listed there. Compare that to the ones in Europe since 2014. The number is huge. And yeah, the link is Wikipedia, I know it's not a 'reliable source', but they can at least count.

Again, I'm not 'bashing only Islam', I dislike all religions equally. All I'm saying is that, in recent years, there were many attacks in the name of Islam. Whether or not it's 'true Islam' is in the eye of the beholder. The people who are responsible for them certainly seem to think they are the true Muslims here, while they see the peaceful Muslims as infidels.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism_in_Europe_(2014%E2%80%93present)

Edit: I can't make this link work... I suck D:

[Oniya]

Every source I've been able to find indicates that the Vegas shooter was not acting in connection with any group.  Not Antifa, not DAESH, not even the Friday Evening Baptist Sewing Circle. 

[Sara Nilsson]

https://www.inquisitr.com/4532093/tom-pettys-daughter-says-dad-is-not-dead-calls-out-rolling-stone-for-reporting-his-death-breaking-news/?utm_content=inf_11_3140_2&source=se&utm_source=se&utm_campaign=se&utm_medium=fb&tse_id=INF_ce1759d0a7dc11e7897b1b4a01a12704

So yeah he might not be dead, the LA PD has backpedaled saying they can't confirm his death.

And now it has been confirmed that he has passed away

http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-41475013

[RedRose]

I agree with you Cognitive. I live in Europe too. Maybe that's more of a European mindset/opinion.

[gaggedLouise]

It turns out that thecaptain of Malaysian flight MH370 - the plane that went missing off Malacca - made a simulation flight on his own pc, the month before the mystery journey. The trajectory has definite parallels with the route taken on the MH370 flight, and again ends in a long sweep out over the Indian Ocean (the simulation had been deliberately erased, but with help from the FBI, detectives have been able to restore much of the dry run journey).

This is very interesting - and it all but proves that the plane getting lost was not about some freak accident, and likely not a hijacking by some outsiders either. It was a deliberate move with help from the captain, or even on his initiative. He knew where he was going. Also no coincidence that the critical point where they cut off contact with civilian airport controllers and went off, was located in a tiny corridor between the radar systems of two different countries. Somebody knew exactly when to make his move.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/science/861864/mh370-search-theory-flight-simulator