You are either not logged in or not registered with our community. Click here to register.
 
December 02, 2016, 02:22:30 PM

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length

Click here if you are having problems.
Default Wide Screen Beige Lilac Rainbow Black & Blue October Send us your theme!

Hark!  The Herald!
Holiday Issue 2016

Wiki Blogs Dicebot

Author Topic: Breaking News: Pat Robertson Says Something Extremely Offensive  (Read 1932 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ephiral

  • The Firebrand Logica | Gender Ninja | Their Toy
  • Liege
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2013
  • Location: In between the lines, outside of the law, underneath the veil
  • Carpe diem per sol delenda.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Breaking News: Pat Robertson Says Something Extremely Offensive
« Reply #25 on: March 27, 2014, 11:03:33 AM »
I wasn't talking about any specific public figure, I was just speaking generally about people of all political persuasions.  One of the things I like about E is that people are respectful of differing political perspectives, but I have been on other forums where people simply ignore or become angry when someone expresses conservative viewpoints.  On that same token, there are many conservative forums, where people will ignore or become angry to more liberal viewpoints.  It is unhealthy and achieves nothing.
I wasn't talking about any specific public figure, either; I was referring to general trends. In conservatism, there is a strong trend toward anger, fortress mentality, othering the enemy, outright lies to advance an agenda, and bigotry.* This trend is very directly encouraged by most of the public-facing elements of conservatism as a movement. While "othering the enemy" happens a lot in politics anyway, institutional encouragement of it is much more prevalent on the conservative side of the fence. Progressivism has its institutional issues, too - but they're largely centered around trying to be too big-tent to actually be effective and an ongoing fascination with warm fuzzy New Agey bullshit. As a direct result of this, one should expect to find more angry, bigoted people who refuse to listen to anything an outsider might say among conservatives - a trend that certainly appears, at first blush, to be borne out by reality.

*This is not to be taken as a statement that all conservatives are guilty of all, or even any, of the above. There are intelligent, basically reasonable people within conservatism; they just appear to be rare, apathetic, or ineffective enough that they cannot fix the trends.

Offline Valthazar

  • Writer ͏͏● Educator ● Gamer ● Roleplayer ● Debater ● Tech Connoisseur ● Gym Rat ● Procrastinator ● As they say, "A simple PM may lead to lifelong friendship" ▬▬▬▬
  • Suspended
  • Seducer
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Location: United States
  • Gender: Male
  • Proceed and be bold. Embrace your insecurities.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Breaking News: Pat Robertson Says Something Extremely Offensive
« Reply #26 on: March 27, 2014, 12:07:24 PM »
You're entitled to your perspective, but the institutional issues you raise are present at both ends of the spectrum.  The pundits in the media are more interested in getting people to become antagonistic to one another, than in developing intelligent solutions.  The media panders to both liberals and conservatives on hot-button issues in order to gain support on issues that largely have very little to do with economics, public policy, or infrastructure.  Ending abortion is a galvanizing issue in movement Conservatism, just as ending perceived racism is a galvanizing issue in Liberalism. 

To many conservatives, it is unimaginable and unthinkable to kill a fetus.  This makes some conservatives angry and bigoted in their dealings with those who disagree.  To many liberals, it is unimaginable and unthinkable that a woman's choice over the fetus growing inside her would be hampered by society.  This makes some liberals angry and bigoted in their dealings with those who disagree.

We see some conservatives who openly threaten to kill (and have killed) abortionists, just as we see some liberals erupting in violence after the Trayvon Martin ruling.

While I fall in neither the liberal nor conservative category, the point is that all of us - whether liberals or conservatives - are ultimately decent people, who are simply being conditioned to focus on areas of disagreement rather than share the many things we have in common.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 12:10:10 PM by Valthazar »

Offline Ephiral

  • The Firebrand Logica | Gender Ninja | Their Toy
  • Liege
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2013
  • Location: In between the lines, outside of the law, underneath the veil
  • Carpe diem per sol delenda.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Breaking News: Pat Robertson Says Something Extremely Offensive
« Reply #27 on: March 27, 2014, 01:20:52 PM »
You're entitled to your perspective, but the institutional issues you raise are present at both ends of the spectrum.  The pundits in the media are more interested in getting people to become antagonistic to one another, than in developing intelligent solutions.  The media panders to both liberals and conservatives on hot-button issues in order to gain support on issues that largely have very little to do with economics, public policy, or infrastructure.  Ending abortion is a galvanizing issue in movement Conservatism, just as ending perceived racism is a galvanizing issue in Liberalism.
Riiight. Show me the progressive news outlet that sued for (and won!) the right to outright lie to its viewers. Show me the liberal radio and print empires built on the premise that all outsiders are murderous heathens, so send us money. Show me the members of goddamn Congress on the progressive side who casually drop statements about how certain people don't deserve rights, or victims aren't really victims. Conversely, show me the conservative fact-checkers, who call out bullshit where they see it regardless of what team it's on. Show me the conservative media outlet that pushes policy even remotely connected to established and well-documented reality. Show me the conservative leaders who actively push people to get a wider perspective on key issues, including examining anything but the craziest version of the other side's perspective.

Yes, there is some crap on both sides, but it's hardly the even distribution you claim.

To many conservatives, it is unimaginable and unthinkable to kill a fetus.  This makes some conservatives angry and bigoted in their dealings with those who disagree.  To many liberals, it is unimaginable and unthinkable that a woman's choice over the fetus growing inside her would be hampered by society.  This makes some liberals angry and bigoted in their dealings with those who disagree.
You can start by defining "bigoted", with the stipulation that I will reject any definition that includes "stating that adult human beings should have human rights". Once you've done that, let's see how big "some" is on each side. You already know how this will look.

We see some conservatives who openly threaten to kill (and have killed) abortionists, just as we see some liberals erupting in violence after the Trayvon Martin ruling.

While I fall in neither the liberal nor conservative category, the point is that all of us - whether liberals or conservatives - are ultimately decent people, who are simply being conditioned to focus on areas of disagreement rather than share the many things we have in common.
The difference: Nobody encouraged the violence around the Martin ruling from on high. In fact, I don't recall a single mention that didn't condemn it. On the other hand, active promotion of violence against LGBT people is a big thing in conservative circles. (Active promotion of violence against doctors who perform abortions has died down somewhat since courts made it clear that that shit won't fly because doctors keep turning up dead.)

It's kinda hard to focus on - or even find - common ground with someone who says you should be killed for the crime of existence, let alone any of the other very popular and very toxic policies in the conservasphere.

EDIT: Also worth noting - in fact, already noted in this thread: The widespread hatred for abortion in at least the Evangelical community and, I believe, the wider conservative community is about thirty years old - a decade before that, abortion freedom was considered a major victory for religious freedom and to be protected strongly. Why did that change so quickly, do you suppose?
« Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 01:26:34 PM by Ephiral »

Offline Valthazar

  • Writer ͏͏● Educator ● Gamer ● Roleplayer ● Debater ● Tech Connoisseur ● Gym Rat ● Procrastinator ● As they say, "A simple PM may lead to lifelong friendship" ▬▬▬▬
  • Suspended
  • Seducer
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Location: United States
  • Gender: Male
  • Proceed and be bold. Embrace your insecurities.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Breaking News: Pat Robertson Says Something Extremely Offensive
« Reply #28 on: March 27, 2014, 01:48:52 PM »
You have a very legitimate opinion on this matter - but realize that it represents the liberal viewpoint.  If we had an openly conservative poster here, you'd likely see him or her suggest that it is liberals who always twist the facts.  It's no different than being on a debate team, and comparing strategies as to who can smear the other viewpoint the best.

A lot of these issues tend to be very subjective in nature - depending on how someone chooses to view it.  It is unlikely that people will be able to respect differing viewpoints on many of these issues anytime soon.

Offline Ephiral

  • The Firebrand Logica | Gender Ninja | Their Toy
  • Liege
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2013
  • Location: In between the lines, outside of the law, underneath the veil
  • Carpe diem per sol delenda.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Breaking News: Pat Robertson Says Something Extremely Offensive
« Reply #29 on: March 27, 2014, 02:28:57 PM »
You have a very legitimate opinion on this matter - but realize that it represents the liberal viewpoint.  If we had an openly conservative poster here, you'd likely see him or her suggest that it is liberals who always twist the facts.  It's no different than being on a debate team, and comparing strategies as to who can smear the other viewpoint the best.

A lot of these issues tend to be very subjective in nature - depending on how someone chooses to view it.  It is unlikely that people will be able to respect differing viewpoints on many of these issues anytime soon.
Oh, stop with the patronizing bullshit already. We counter viewpoint bias with evidence, which I have explicitly requested. (A casual observer can easily point out the inverted examples of everything I was looking for.) You have a very unfortunate tendency to dodge straightforward questions, Valthazar, and it will never fly with me. Do you have an example of even one of those things, or are you just making shit up when you say "It's all equal, everyone does it the same!"?

Offline Valthazar

  • Writer ͏͏● Educator ● Gamer ● Roleplayer ● Debater ● Tech Connoisseur ● Gym Rat ● Procrastinator ● As they say, "A simple PM may lead to lifelong friendship" ▬▬▬▬
  • Suspended
  • Seducer
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Location: United States
  • Gender: Male
  • Proceed and be bold. Embrace your insecurities.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Breaking News: Pat Robertson Says Something Extremely Offensive
« Reply #30 on: March 27, 2014, 02:40:47 PM »
Nothing I said was patronizing - I stated twice that I respect your perspectives.  I realize you hold some strong views on these issues, and nothing productive is going to come out of me attempting to debate socially conservative viewpoints, which I myself don't even hold.  Perhaps someone else who actually feels strongly about these views would be a better person to debate with.

Offline Iniquitous

Re: Breaking News: Pat Robertson Says Something Extremely Offensive
« Reply #31 on: March 27, 2014, 02:41:57 PM »
Bigoted: having or revealing an obstinate belief in the superiority of ones own opinions and a prejudiced intolerance of the opinions of others.

Thought Id answer that request. And since I am seeing an intolerance of the opinion of others in this thread atm, I am only going to ask how we went from discussing Pat saying something offensive to this bickering and incivility.

Online Oniya

  • StoreHouse of Useless Trivia
  • Oracle
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Location: Just bouncing through. Hi! City of Roses, Pennsylvania
  • Gender: Female
  • One bad Motokifuka. Also cute and FLUFFY!
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: Breaking News: Pat Robertson Says Something Extremely Offensive
« Reply #32 on: March 27, 2014, 02:43:34 PM »
Liberal or conservative - if one goes into a debate with the attitude that the other person is going to misrepresent things, it's very rare that anything productive occurs.  This is one of the primary problems in the US Congress today.

Let's not make it a problem here.

Offline Ephiral

  • The Firebrand Logica | Gender Ninja | Their Toy
  • Liege
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2013
  • Location: In between the lines, outside of the law, underneath the veil
  • Carpe diem per sol delenda.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Breaking News: Pat Robertson Says Something Extremely Offensive
« Reply #33 on: March 27, 2014, 03:18:12 PM »
Nothing I said was patronizing - I stated twice that I respect your perspectives.  I realize you hold some strong views on these issues, and nothing productive is going to come out of me attempting to debate socially conservative viewpoints, which I myself don't even hold.  Perhaps someone else who actually feels strongly about these views would be a better person to debate with.
Trying to "educate" someone on what their viewpoint is can't help but come off as patronizing. You may want to consider that in the future.

Thought Id answer that request. And since I am seeing an intolerance of the opinion of others in this thread atm, I am only going to ask how we went from discussing Pat saying something offensive to this bickering and incivility.
Holding 'civility' as sacred is kinda one of the issues on the progressive side. I see no reason to show any special deference or respect to falsehoods or those who perpetuate them - in fact, from my perspective, it's rather disrespectful to the general public to allow people to feed them bullshit without challenging it. That said, out of respect for you and Oniya, I'm done on that particular tangent.

Offline Iniquitous

Re: Breaking News: Pat Robertson Says Something Extremely Offensive
« Reply #34 on: March 27, 2014, 03:22:45 PM »
Trying to "educate" someone on what their viewpoint is can't help but come off as patronizing. You may want to consider that in the future.
Holding 'civility' as sacred is kinda one of the issues on the progressive side. I see no reason to show any special deference or respect to falsehoods or those who perpetuate them - in fact, from my perspective, it's rather disrespectful to the general public to allow people to feed them bullshit without challenging it. That said, out of respect for you and Oniya, I'm done on that particular tangent.

I was mentioning in reference to E's rule of civility. You've come across as very hostile and rude. I am not sure if you realize how you come across, but it is a bit off putting to see you attack someone else's opinions just because you do not agree with them.

Offline Ephiral

  • The Firebrand Logica | Gender Ninja | Their Toy
  • Liege
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2013
  • Location: In between the lines, outside of the law, underneath the veil
  • Carpe diem per sol delenda.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Breaking News: Pat Robertson Says Something Extremely Offensive
« Reply #35 on: March 27, 2014, 03:36:55 PM »
Just want to state this publicly: You're right, IO. My second-to-last post was over the line, and getting self-righteous about it doesn't help. I apologize, and will not continue this discussion further in thread.

Offline mj2002

Re: Breaking News: Pat Robertson Says Something Extremely Offensive
« Reply #36 on: March 28, 2014, 04:39:28 AM »
I thought about this thread a bit and I realized that it's not just about Pat Robertson. It's about all the people out there that will blindly follow any individual that is part of a certain group, party, or spouting ideas that 'seem' to fit into whatever world they live in. My uncle tells anybody who doesn't automatically agree with him or get pissed off and raise a fist and join him in his rants that they're wrong. He hates anyone that isn't a republican and who doesn't think we should still be segregated.

There is no reason for that hate. Yet, reason won't work on those individuals.

It's just how some thongs are. Unfortunately.
Education. Education. Education.

A proper education is the best way to make sure people like this become less numerous over time.

Offline Iniquitous

Re: Breaking News: Pat Robertson Says Something Extremely Offensive
« Reply #37 on: March 28, 2014, 10:17:53 AM »
Education. Education. Education.

A proper education is the best way to make sure people like this become less numerous over time.

Assuming, of course, that the government run school system isn't indoctrinating our children.

Online Oniya

  • StoreHouse of Useless Trivia
  • Oracle
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Location: Just bouncing through. Hi! City of Roses, Pennsylvania
  • Gender: Female
  • One bad Motokifuka. Also cute and FLUFFY!
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: Breaking News: Pat Robertson Says Something Extremely Offensive
« Reply #38 on: March 28, 2014, 12:16:19 PM »
Education can come from a lot of places - especially if you answer the questions 'why' and 'how' whenever they're asked.  Getting them a library card at an early age also helps.

(Heck, if I had relied on the schools in this district for the little Oni's education... *shudder*)

Offline Valthazar

  • Writer ͏͏● Educator ● Gamer ● Roleplayer ● Debater ● Tech Connoisseur ● Gym Rat ● Procrastinator ● As they say, "A simple PM may lead to lifelong friendship" ▬▬▬▬
  • Suspended
  • Seducer
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Location: United States
  • Gender: Male
  • Proceed and be bold. Embrace your insecurities.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Breaking News: Pat Robertson Says Something Extremely Offensive
« Reply #39 on: March 28, 2014, 09:13:09 PM »
Oniya is right, it really all comes down to the parents.  There are many important life lessons which are omitted in the K-12 curriculum - the lack of which results in students falling into certain common traps, which may then influence future voting patterns.

Money management is rarely taught.  Many kids graduate not knowing how to write out a check, or develop a monthly budget.  Lacking these skills is likely to lead to students being in a bad spot financially as adults or in massive debt.  One can imagine how this may influence their political and economic views.  In addition, K-12 schools really don't teach a lot of life lessons regarding presentability, the importance of a positive attitude, entrepreneurship, etc. (lessons which parents really should be teaching).  These traits are critical in gaining jobs and opportunities in life.  In fact, I would say these lessons are more vital than many academic subjects currently being taught in K-12.

Without a good parental influence, the school system ultimately fails students in the long-term.  So to that end, I can see why some say the K-12 system (exclusively by itself) is ill-preparing students, and leading them down a biased path.

Online Oniya

  • StoreHouse of Useless Trivia
  • Oracle
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Location: Just bouncing through. Hi! City of Roses, Pennsylvania
  • Gender: Female
  • One bad Motokifuka. Also cute and FLUFFY!
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: Breaking News: Pat Robertson Says Something Extremely Offensive
« Reply #40 on: March 28, 2014, 09:46:36 PM »
What it mostly comes down to is instilling a sense of curiosity and a desire to learn instead of shutting it down.  Once they want to learn new things, it's just a matter of giving the sponge something to soak up.

Online DemonessOfDeathValley

  • For those who are gone.....but never forgotten....
  • Lady
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Nov 2013
  • Location: Somewhere between sleep and awake
  • Gender: Female
  • I remember......
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 1
Re: Breaking News: Pat Robertson Says Something Extremely Offensive
« Reply #41 on: March 29, 2014, 04:59:53 AM »
Education is exactly what needs to happen.

I feel a step in the right direction, would be presenting only facts when it comes to politics. And not the opinions of someone who read the opinions of someone else who got those opinions from someone else that was listening to someone who paraphrased something that was in a memo from the desk of so and so.  That may be an exaggeration. However, when my uncle starts his spewing of propaganda, I look up what he's spewing and I try to find something that will prove or debunk his claims. Very rarely has anything he's said been 100% true. It most usually, thankfully, turns out to be something that is very outdated or something that is an opinion and not a fact or perhaps a portion of something else.

Oh, Oniya. When I think of the crummy curriculum in the schools I attended, I shudder to think what it's like now.

Offline Healergirl

Re: Breaking News: Pat Robertson Says Something Extremely Offensive
« Reply #42 on: March 29, 2014, 08:00:28 AM »
Why does what Pat robertson say matetr?

Well, because he has a popular TV show, The 700 Club.

That is the practical answer.  Not very satisfying on the meta level, but there you go.

Offline Septembr

Re: Breaking News: Pat Robertson Says Something Extremely Offensive
« Reply #43 on: March 30, 2014, 02:01:49 PM »
It's probably his offensiveness that gives him an ego boost and the attention he seeks to begin with....who knows...I pay him no mind though....to each his own....

Offline ANewMan

Re: Breaking News: Pat Robertson Says Something Extremely Offensive
« Reply #44 on: April 17, 2014, 02:08:11 PM »
I don't see anything wrong with saying some stupid. It's just stupid.

Offline BeeJay

Re: Breaking News: Pat Robertson Says Something Extremely Offensive
« Reply #45 on: August 01, 2014, 12:19:25 AM »
Can anyone really say they are surprised that a fundamentalist Christian said something bigoted and ignorant? I mean the entire doctrine behind Pat Robertson supports and lays down rules for treating wives as chattel, owning and beating slaves, beating and stoning children, forcing raped women to marry their rapist, etc. ad nauseam. I would have been surprised if he were capable of making a moral statement at all.   

Online Oniya

  • StoreHouse of Useless Trivia
  • Oracle
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Location: Just bouncing through. Hi! City of Roses, Pennsylvania
  • Gender: Female
  • One bad Motokifuka. Also cute and FLUFFY!
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: Breaking News: Pat Robertson Says Something Extremely Offensive
« Reply #46 on: August 01, 2014, 12:20:57 AM »
Whoa... necro-thread... 


*plants a line of chompers*

Offline Alsheriam

Re: Breaking News: Pat Robertson Says Something Extremely Offensive
« Reply #47 on: August 01, 2014, 12:28:03 AM »
Can you feel that good ol' Christian love?

Online Oniya

  • StoreHouse of Useless Trivia
  • Oracle
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Location: Just bouncing through. Hi! City of Roses, Pennsylvania
  • Gender: Female
  • One bad Motokifuka. Also cute and FLUFFY!
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: Breaking News: Pat Robertson Says Something Extremely Offensive
« Reply #48 on: August 01, 2014, 12:33:51 AM »
I can't believe that anyone cared enough about Pat Robertson to reopen a thread that hadn't been posted in for almost three months.

Offline Ironwolf85

  • Eletronic Scribe of naughty things.
  • Lord
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: May 2010
  • Location: New England Somewhere I won't tell you
  • Gender: Male
  • Here to have fun, Role play, and maybe get laid
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Breaking News: Pat Robertson Says Something Extremely Offensive
« Reply #49 on: August 01, 2014, 02:05:22 AM »
Facts:
Pat Robertson is a dipshit, but he's a rich religious dipshit, therefore people think he matters. Shocker, he's just a dipshit.
This thread got a necro-dig because of the atheist thread above.
The guys at FOX who poured billions of hours of screen time into saving Twinkies, and waging a war on "turrisum", didn't lift a finger to refund the space program.
Republicans have a shitty long term political plan.
Hilary is running in 2016
The middle east is at war with itself.
Guardians of the Galaxy came out today (HECK YEAH)
Many Americans are overweight.
It rains in England.
Germans make good beer
Japan has the highest suicide rate in the world.
China is overpopulated.
and people LOVE sex.

That will be all.  ;)