Interest Check: Justice League

[Shadowclaw]

I'm going to type out an explanation tomorrow.

[ladia2287]

I misunderstood something, I think.  You're talking about needing to know comic-book canon, but I thought I read that you were doing a new and original universe?

From what I've seen each universe is totally unique, so why would you need knowledge at all besides basic looks of a character? Excluding the animated series seems a little short sighted since that too could be considered yet another universe and the movies even another one.  Perhaps the 1960's Batman series is one universe where everything is a little campy (a lot campy), and then the 90's animated series is another, and the 90's movies another, and the Nolan movies another.  I fail to see why you have to know comic book lore is all I'm saying.

It was interesting to me at first, thinking I could come up with an altered version of say Huntress from the comic books, but these latter posts seem like you have to have an in-depth knowledge of their canon AND you want them played exactly like that?  Like I said, I'm really confused now.

When it comes to fandom roleplays, a lot of this is to do with ensuring familiarity and consistency. I used to GM Harry Potter games back in the day, and I can tell you from personal experience that even if you are creating an AU (alternate universe) roleplay, you still need to respect and enforce canon as much as possible. Otherwise you may as well just call it an original story with original characters. In the cases of DC and Marvel, the general consensus is that 'canon' refers only to the comics.

Personally, I find the DC movies and TV shows to be entertaining, but I don't consider them to be canon as too many liberties are taken. Liberties that are noticeable even to fans whose knowledge of canon is limited. I honestly cringed at the end of the last Nolan Batman movie. Any Batman fan could tell you that all the 'Robins' were recruited when they were in their early teens or younger, so it made no sense to me that the first and only Robin to appear in the entire series would already be an established adult cop.

[Darwishi]

When it comes to fandom roleplays, a lot of this is to do with ensuring familiarity and consistency. I used to GM Harry Potter games back in the day, and I can tell you from personal experience that even if you are creating an AU (alternate universe) roleplay, you still need to respect and enforce canon as much as possible. Otherwise you may as well just call it an original story with original characters. In the cases of DC and Marvel, the general consensus is that 'canon' refers only to the comics.

Personally, I find the DC movies and TV shows to be entertaining, but I don't consider them to be canon as too many liberties are taken. Liberties that are noticeable even to fans whose knowledge of canon is limited. I honestly cringed at the end of the last Nolan Batman movie. Any Batman fan could tell you that all the 'Robins' were recruited when they were in their early teens or younger, so it made no sense to me that the first and only Robin to appear in the entire series would already be an established adult cop.

That...doesn't make any sense to me still.  Probably the game just isn't for me, I don't much like playing exactly canon and from the sounds of it you have to be a hardcore DC nerd in order to play.  Shadow was saying stuff like having to own comic books and read them? That's a bit much to me.  Especially since I don't have the extra funds to spend on comic books.  That's just a weee bit cray-cray for me.

[Shadowclaw]

When it comes to fandom roleplays, a lot of this is to do with ensuring familiarity and consistency. I used to GM Harry Potter games back in the day, and I can tell you from personal experience that even if you are creating an AU (alternate universe) roleplay, you still need to respect and enforce canon as much as possible. Otherwise you may as well just call it an original story with original characters. In the cases of DC and Marvel, the general consensus is that 'canon' refers only to the comics.

Personally, I find the DC movies and TV shows to be entertaining, but I don't consider them to be canon as too many liberties are taken. Liberties that are noticeable even to fans whose knowledge of canon is limited. I honestly cringed at the end of the last Nolan Batman movie. Any Batman fan could tell you that all the 'Robins' were recruited when they were in their early teens or younger, so it made no sense to me that the first and only Robin to appear in the entire series would already be an established adult cop.

Nice post, and very similar to what I was going to say.... though perhaps I would have been a smidge less couth about it. So I’m sorry but that’s not happening. Don’t get me wrong, I do enjoy those sources of entertainment in their own right, but I wouldn't want that in the RP I'm planning for the very reasons Ladia just expressed. I don’t even want artwork used for any kind of canon character bio that come from TV shows, straight to DVD, or Movies. I'll ask everyone to keep it in the comics.

But right now I just want to know how many people would be interested in a comic based New Earth Justice League Roleplay, though it would have an alternating timeline starting at the beginning of the Modern Era/Age which would be a group effort. It would not be an open sandbox, there would be some amount of structure with a good amount of creative flexibility as well. I've decided not to discuss this at length until I know if there's even enough people who are interested or not.

[Darwishi]

Yeaaaaaah. I enjoy comic books when I read them, but I don't read much more than Birds of Prey and even then I don't memorize every last detail that happens to them.  Sounds like it's for the hardcore nerds, which I'm not. A nerd yes, but not hardcore, especially not of the comic books.  Best of luck to you though! Just not for me. ^_^

[Shadowclaw]

Yeaaaaaah. I enjoy comic books when I read them, but I don't read much more than Birds of Prey and even then I don't memorize every last detail that happens to them.  Sounds like it's for the hardcore nerds, which I'm not. A nerd yes, but not hardcore, especially not of the comic books.  Best of luck to you though! Just not for me. ^_^

Well for anyone who is interested but isn't sure, there ARE cheat sheets to refresh your memory!
http://www.cosmicteams.com/jla/_chron/jlachron8.html

Also I never kept up with all of this either... I know some things though. That's why I'm looking for some people who know more than I do. The point of this is to calm down all that mess down and clean out the attic so we can have a cleaner slate to start from. I think once the first group calms down the timeline, more people will be interested since all they'll have to do is read the new timeline. Then you won't need to be a nerd, it'll be done for you. After that happens... if it happens, I think this RP would become more popular. It would allow people more creative freedom and have more characters available to play since they're not DEAD, missing, retired, in another dimension, on another planet, etc, and our favorite places where people want to RP will be back to the way they were like Watchtower, Star City, and Blüdhaven.

[MaiMizzu]

If you're still looking for people, and she isn't claimed yet, I'd love to play Supergirl. I can help put together a story too. I'm kind of a comic nerd, mostly old school stuff. Well like not supernew stuff.

[Shadowclaw]

If you're still looking for people, and she isn't claimed yet, I'd love to play Supergirl. I can help put together a story too. I'm kind of a comic nerd, mostly old school stuff. Well like not supernew stuff.

*tackles* I got one!


Yes, you're help will be very much appreciated! Maybe we can run stuff by each other while we wait for others to join?

[LordMing]

I had to leave for a bit, but I am an old comic fan from well...ever...and an RPer since the days of Gary Gygax first version of D&D.  If ya want someone I can join up.  I've played the Bat before, but if you are looking for originals then I have a truckload of potentials I can throw out there.

[Shadowclaw]

Yay! Can you help sort out the timeline? That's what I really need right now, people who can work on the timeline. We can't even work on crafting a plot if we don't even know whats going on in the world. It doesn't need to be super complicated and stupid detailed, we just need to figure out the basics in what happened and what didn't happen, and why. If you think you'd be able to help with this, please let me know. I really need people who can do this. I know some of this history but I don't know most of it... who the heck does? I have cheat sheets though, but they don't have all the details. They're just a a lightly detailed outline of the timeline, good enough though so if you have enough people you'll be able to fill in all the details.

[Scribbles]

Would there be room for a Power Girl? I know she's a part of New Earth but I don't believe she was ever a part of the Justice League.

[Shadowclaw]

I don't see why not. :)

[Shadowclaw]

Just to keep track of things, people who have expressed an interest are:

Female Roleplayers
MaiMizzu - Supergirl, Timeline?, Story
Scribbles - Power Girl

Male Roleplayers
LordMing - Batman?, Timeline?

*These roleplayers have not been cemented, I'm just keeping track of who has expressed interest so far.

[Ascia]

To answer your question, it would be the best of both planed stories and a sandbox. There would be some amount of structure while providing a good amount of creative freedom. It wouldn't be me or any particular single person outlining a story that everyone would have to follow, everyone would have a say. The sandbox is there, but depending on what everyone agrees to that will establish some kind of minimal structure everyone would stick to.

This sounds like, "Central storyline with the freedom and ability to create your own sub-storylines for your character/location/desire." Also kinda sounds like a question you can't actually answer without knowing the plot storyline first. 

Okay, I have one thing in mind as a rule. I'm going to kindly request that people stick to comic characters from the actual DC comics, and any stories, places, histories, events, and back stories be based on the comic versions. And original characters should make an effort to find a way to fit into any of the themes of DC comics. For example, you wouldn't design a character with Bleach or Marvel in mind if you're making them for DC. That would make no sense, and it would be considered an original crossover which I really don't want.

The point of this project is to create a comic based DC JLA world, not something based on live TV and movie versions. So nothing based on Smallville, Arrow, any of the DC "inspired" movies, or hate to say it, the animated versions. I'm still working out the guidelines for this project so please be patient.

So comic inspired and comic based ONLY. And that especially goes for artwork and portraits.

If this really interests anyone but they're rusty on the look and feel of DC comics, there are tons of them everywhere you can buy used and new reprinted on the cheap. Comic stores, online stores like newkadia, garage sales, ebay, craigslist, etc. They even have online versions you can buy now from the online DC store. So there's TONS of ways to get caught up on DC these days. I'm planning to do that again as well. I've been starting to lose touch with some of the original characters, especially after watching live action TV series, movies, Justice League Unlimited, and Young Justice.

I have a nice stack of some comics I bought not long ago, but they don't cover all my favorites like the ones I remember having when I was younger. Most of what I have centers on Gotham characters. I grew up loving characters like Superman, Flash, and Wonder Woman. Not sure what I should read though. Suggestions?

Hmm. Seems like a rule that limits creativity. Are you asking people to play straight up versions of the canon characters? Or, take Batgirl for example, could I have a Steph-Batgirl? Could I do a white Mary Marvel? Could I turn Deadshot into an Anti-Hero? Or we strictly sticking to 'canon'; meaning the New 52?

I get you don't want the Arrow version of Ollie. But do you need a rule for it, seeing as you're the one approving or not approving characters? Just curious!

When it comes to fandom roleplays, a lot of this is to do with ensuring familiarity and consistency. I used to GM Harry Potter games back in the day, and I can tell you from personal experience that even if you are creating an AU (alternate universe) roleplay, you still need to respect and enforce canon as much as possible. Otherwise you may as well just call it an original story with original characters. In the cases of DC and Marvel, the general consensus is that 'canon' refers only to the comics.

Personally, I find the DC movies and TV shows to be entertaining, but I don't consider them to be canon as too many liberties are taken. Liberties that are noticeable even to fans whose knowledge of canon is limited. I honestly cringed at the end of the last Nolan Batman movie. Any Batman fan could tell you that all the 'Robins' were recruited when they were in their early teens or younger, so it made no sense to me that the first and only Robin to appear in the entire series would already be an established adult cop.

Right. So long as the Robin 'fit' with the general flow of the game and didn't feel out of place, who cares?

Another example of my question, I think.

That...doesn't make any sense to me still.  Probably the game just isn't for me, I don't much like playing exactly canon and from the sounds of it you have to be a hardcore DC nerd in order to play.  Shadow was saying stuff like having to own comic books and read them? That's a bit much to me.  Especially since I don't have the extra funds to spend on comic books.  That's just a weee bit cray-cray for me.

If Shadow isn't super current on canon affairs, it seems odd to me that he'd be asking only people who are super current on canon play in this game.

It seems he's asking for one or two players that know DC really well, to help him set up the IC universe for the game. Not for everyone in the game to know DC really well.

Also, Shadow, people tend to flinch when asked to buy something for a text based online RP. Crazy, I know. But you should stop scaring people like that. <3

Not that I would ever torrent something, but I hear it's a great cheap way to get all the comics you want. Again, not that I'd know. >>

[mia h]

The problem with saying 'cannon' is which 'cannon', there have been so many different versions and interpretations of some of the characters because they've been around so long it's less 'cannon' more '21 gun salute'

[Scribbles]

Honestly, a nice source of information would be the wiki: http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page

Otherwise, I don't really believe it's possible to follow a canon personality EXACTLY, especially seeing as they often tend to warp with each different writer, even if subtly. The best you can do is make note of the more prominent traits which characterize the persona and simply try stay true to them.

[Ascia]

The problem with saying 'cannon' is which 'cannon', there have been so many different versions and interpretations of some of the characters because they've been around so long it's less 'cannon' more '21 gun salute'

Honestly, a nice source of information would be the wiki: http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page

Otherwise, I don't really believe it's possible to follow a canon personality EXACTLY, especially seeing as they often tend to warp with each different writer, even if subtly. The best you can do is make note of the more prominent traits which characterize the persona and simply try stay true to them.

It's also not very fun to follow canon exactly. You always know what's about to happen, after all. ^_^

The Wikis, of which Scribbles shared one, are usually more than enough to get you started with any character. Unless you're talking Ghost Fox Killer or some crazy obscure stuff.

So, it's agreed. No one but those who help create the timeline and story need to know all this 'canon' crap. Da?

[Shadowclaw]

Please just bare with me, some of those posts were before I had worked out in my head exactly what I wanted to do... you know how the creative mind works.. I get it, bad Shadowclaw. If you really want to spank me, go ahead... but not in the face, that's my money maker. If you're confused about anything read the first post and this one. That's what should matter right now, I wrote that after more thought. If you're still confused, read it again. Then if you still have a question, then ask.  I'm going to have to go back again and edit things I've said to stop any further confusion. But bringing up all that stuff is just going to confuse people. If posters keep doing that instead of concentrating on what I'm saying now, I'll have to delete the thread and start it over or ask someone to clean it out. Its my fault and I'm sorry, I feel bad about it. I've been trying to go back and write over anything confusing I've said that contradicts anything in the first post (new), or what I'm saying now, so new people looking at it aren't confused. Its the new readers who will be confused more than anyone else.

The first goal of the RP is a "reboot" of the original DC comics New Earth timeline, starting before the modern Era. A lot of the crap that happened later on in the timeline that resulted in a lot of damage and chaos is going to be cleaned up.

I'm trying to find people who are familiar with the New Earth DC Comics universe. These people and myself will all work together to reboot the timeline. Ascia, you can't expect me or anyone else to know a lot of the timeline, and I'm current enough through reading about the timeline and summaries to know what to change. That's why a group is needed. Different people are often familiar with different parts of the timeline. Some people are current with the older stuff, some with the newer, some are spotty, some only followed a particular character or certain series... very few people know the entire timeline by heart including the new stuff. Those are hardcore DC comic fans. I've met a few online but I've never personally known any. One of those guys would sure be welcome in this project though.

One thing worth noting is since this isn't the original New Earth dimension, but instead a version of it existing in a different dimension, characters who crossed into the real New Earth dimension will have never interacted with this world, which is going to make cleaning up the timeline a lot easier. We just kick them out of the timeline.

Different characters have taken up the mask of heroes as they eventually retired or died, and their origins have been rewritten... as pointed out. I've already decided the group will choose which versions will be used from the New Earth timeline, provided they didn't retire because of old age earlier in the timeline before the Modern era.

(Lord Ming is expressing interest in the timeline, and I'm hoping others will as well.)

The second goal will be establishing who is going to play canons to ground the RP to the DC Universe.

Then when we know who we have to work with, the group can get started on brainstorming ideas for stories. The third goal will be writing out a basic plot outline with nonspecific desired outcomes, and some events leading up the current time frame.

After that, the rest will be up to the roleplayers, who will decide how they want to play out the story and who to work with. So while its not a sandbox where you can just do what ever you want, there will be a great amount of freedom and wiggle room for what you want to do in the story, as long as roleplayers communicate and work together. At this point, some original characters will be allowed. I'm hoping people will actually be creative and not automatically go the hero route. We'll need civilians and lesser evil doers to help support the plot. I'll also allow one crossover character as well, as long as they're not in this world on purpose. I'm thinking that a certain power or technology when mixed with a sudden electrical surge would be a great way to be hurled into another dimension. So maybe someone who can create electricity from the X-Men Universe? Maybe Storm? I haven't spent much time thinking about this. *shrugs*

[Shadowclaw]

So, it's agreed. No one but those who help create the timeline and story need to know all this 'canon' crap. Da?

Yes and no. Yes, the first group of people do need to be familiar with parts of the original New Earth timeline if they're going to work on it, but roleplayers do need to have a good understanding of the New Earth DC Comic version of the canon they're playing (since this RP is based on the New Earth DC Comcs Universe)... which a lot DC comic fans are familiar with anyway, so that really shouldn't be a problem. People interested in canons need to let me know how they're familiar with the character they want to play so there can be confidence in their ability to play that character. If you're only familiar with a Movie or TV version, then no. Sorry but just no. You need to be familar with the comic version of a character if you want to roleplay as them, since this RP is based on the comics and nothing else. A lot of things are taken for granted, written over, and completely written out in TV and Movie versions of DC characters. Some of them are even based on different dimensional existences of characters, from other multiverses in DC, like Prime Earth or Earth-16. This RP will be based on New Earth ONLY.

For example, if you play Green Arrow, are you going to know who his romantic interests are in the comic? What about his civilian life? What's his personal life like? Who he stays in touch with? What about friends and family? Does he have a family? What keeps him up at night? In what areas is he usually the most active? See? They don't cover that in the show Arrow, they completely wrote over all that. And almost none of that has been covered in any of the animated series I've seen. If someone played him the way he is in the show Arrow, it would totally conflict with the DC New Earth universe, since that show is only "based' on his character. That's why TV and Movie versions are not allowed in this RP. I expect some actual knowledge of characters, not minimalistic or rewritten interpretations based on TV and movies.

Something else I want to address is someone told me that certain characters like Green Arrow and Supergirl never had a chance to really shine. THIS RP IS A GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO DO THAT!!! Since we're going to reboot the timeline, I think that is a great idea! Lets reel in the timeline a bit, undo what was done to their characters, and rewrite their more current story so they really have an opportunity to shine and do great things.

[Scribbles]

I'll be basing PeeGee's character off the short comic series she starred in, if that's alright.

Something else I want to address is someone told me that certain characters like Green Arrow and Supergirl never had a chance to really shine.

This is especially true for Power Girl, I'm reading a series with her right now and it's shameful how often she's side-lined.

[Ascia]

Yes and no. Yes, the first group of people do need to be familiar with parts of the original New Earth timeline if they're going to work on it, but roleplayers do need to have a good understanding of the New Earth DC Comic version of the canon they're playing (since this RP is based on the New Earth DC Comcs Universe)... which a lot DC comic fans are familiar with anyway, so that really shouldn't be a problem. People interested in canons need to let me know how they're familiar with the character they want to play so there can be confidence in their ability to play that character. If you're only familiar with a Movie or TV version, then no. Sorry but just no. You need to be familar with the comic version of a character if you want to roleplay as them, since this RP is based on the comics and nothing else. A lot of things are taken for granted, written over, and completely written out in TV and Movie versions of DC characters. Some of them are even based on different dimensional existences of characters, from other dimensions in DC, like Prime earth or Eart-16. This RP will be based on New Earth ONLY.

For example, if you play Green Arrow, are you going to know who his romantic interests are in the comic? What about his civilian life? What's his personal life like? Who he stays in touch with? What about friends and family? Does he have a family? What keeps him up at night? In what areas is he usually the most active? See? They don't cover that in the show Arrow, they completely wrote over all that. And almost none of that has been covered in any of the animated series I've seen. If someone played him the way he is in the show Arrow, it would totally conflict with the DC New Earth universe, since that show is only "based' on his character. That's why TV and Movie versions are not allowed in this RP. I expect some actual knowledge of characters, not minimalistic or rewritten interpretations based on TV and movies.

Something else I want to address is someone told me that certain characters like Green Arrow and Supergirl never had a chance to really shine. THIS RP IS A GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO DO THAT!!! Since we're going to reboot the timeline, I think that is a great idea! Lets reel in the timeline a bit, undo what was done to their characters, and rewrite their more current story so they really have an opportunity to shine and do great things.

Green Arrow and Supergirl both have their own series and are considered A-listers? Maybe they meant in RPs?

Also, duh people needing to know enough to RP characters in the DCU if they're going to try to, you know, RP characters in the DCU.  But do they need to know the Robins (including both the girl Robins)? I think no. That was what I meant with "all this 'canon' crap" unless helping with story/timeline. Some canon crap, sure. But not all. But it's good you misunderstood me, 'cause now we're crystal clear!

Also, I think you're doing Ultimate DCU. I think that's a hardcore comic nerd approved way of describing your intentions with this universe. It's a creative do-over, so long as people don't do something that feels out of place in the DCU. Hai?

[Ascia]

Ascia, you can't expect me or anyone else to know a lot of the timeline

I can if you're trying to run a DC game. ^_^

very few people know the entire timeline by heart including the new stuff. Those are hardcore DC comic fans. I've met a few online but I've never personally known any. One of those guys would sure be welcome in this project though.

Go to a comic shop. You'll met some of them IRL.

And why they gotta be a guy? >< I'm one, and I'm a girl. So...nuh.  Eatit.

[Shadowclaw]

When I'm talking to a group of men and women, I say "guys". That's what I meant with that.

[Ascia]

When I'm talking to a group of men and women, I say "guys". That's what I meant with that.

Oh I figured. But I couldn't very well let such an opening be wasted, now could I? Of course not. 

[Shadowclaw]

Green Arrow and Supergirl both have their own series and are considered A-listers? Maybe they meant in RPs?

Now that you mention it, I'm not sure what they meant. I assumed that's what they meant. But if someone feels like a great character has been ignored or sidelined, then by all means suggest someone like Power Girl get their chance to shine. I think that's a wonderful idea!

Also, duh people needing to know enough to RP characters in the DCU if they're going to try to, you know, RP characters in the DCU.  But do they need to know the Robins (including both the girl Robins)? I think no. That was what I meant with "all this 'canon' crap" unless helping with story/timeline. Some canon crap, sure. But not all. But it's good you misunderstood me, 'cause now we're crystal clear!

Glad we understand each other, and you're absolutely right about multiple versions of characters throughout the timeline. I'm glad you brought that up. First thing people need to keep in mind is the story will start close to the current time of the real world. Probably Spring 2014. So people need to keep in mind, who is young enough to be a sidekick like Robin that late in the timeline? Second thing is, after the timeline is sorted out we'll start getting more organized with who is playing characters. At that point, we'll take a closer look at which versions of which canons want to play, and how to fit them into the timeline if anything happened to them. If a sidekick or any canon died later in the timeline or just before the Modern Era, we can just undo that.

Also, I think you're doing Ultimate DCU. I think that's a hardcore comic nerd approved way of describing your intentions with this universe. It's a creative do-over, so long as people don't do something that feels out of place in the DCU. Hai?

I guess? But doesn't the DCU apply to the entire DC Universe? I've been saying New Earth which is the original Earth, but only one of the many dimensions within the DC Universe. There's other versions like Earth-16 and Prime earth, that are part of the DC Universe. I originally almost said Universe, but changed it to New Earth to be a lot more clear about what canons I'm looking for.