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Author Topic: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.  (Read 35456 times)

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Offline FormlessTopic starter

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #600 on: March 20, 2016, 10:54:14 AM »
Zakat Payment: When a Muslim wishes to pay their percent of annual charity, is it ever handled in an official capacity? Do Muslim countries have zakat paperwork akin or part of tax return forms? Do Muslims in Muslim countries have to provide proof or documentation that they paid the zakat, if not legal then for social reasons? Or is it entirely a personal thing in most cases?

Wikipedia mentions that most Muslim governments leave the process to individuals, save for a few such as Saudi Arabi and Malaysia which regulate it.

Zakat is handled differently in Saudi Arabia , depending on who is it required from.

1- Zakat from Individuals: Each person should give out their Zakat whenever they wish , and whenever they want. (Yes some do not give it out even when they are capable and no one would persecute them, because no one's keeping watch on that.) How an individual handles it depend on said individual. Some do it by themselves. They have their own accounting books ...etc.

Some would let the bank which holds their account to calculates it for them. Then they can suggest to donate them to account that belongs to charity groups in the same bank. Some though , would rather have the bank calculate it , then they would decide to hand it out themselves to whomever they see fit.

2- Zakat from the private sector. This is regulated by the government. Each business requires a license. And any license will not be renewed unless the owner of the business (Whatever it is , a shop , a restaurant , a company a gas station ... etc.) must donate it to the ' Department of Zakat and Tax Income '.

The department will then issue a certificate to as proof that said business has paid their annual zakat (or tax if as people are recently calling it) so they could apply for a renewal of license for their business.

Supposedly the government will donate the zakat income acquired by said department to a selective of charity groups , or in recent years to foreign crisis regions.

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Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #601 on: March 20, 2016, 11:41:20 AM »
Just to chime in, it's broadly similar in Pakistan - zakat is deducted automatically from sufficiently large bank accounts and handled centrally (i think it's by MORA but I'm not sure).  Very much a tax, as above.

Offline Skynet

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #602 on: March 31, 2016, 06:52:28 PM »
What level of poverty are Sufi Muslims expected to live by? How far does their asceticism go generally?

Are they allowed to use modern technology such as electronics, phones, running water, etc? Are they allowed to own private property beyond the clothes on their backs, or live in non-communal settings?

Offline FormlessTopic starter

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #603 on: April 01, 2016, 08:06:30 AM »
Are they allowed to use modern technology such as electronics, phones, running water, etc? Are they allowed to own private property beyond the clothes on their backs, or live in non-communal settings?

I couldn't find any accurate answers to this. But I would assume they use such necessities in their life. My only reason to think so is how some of their sheikhs have a satellite channel of their own to preach and answer inquiries about their beliefs.

Offline Retribution

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Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #604 on: April 15, 2016, 09:37:39 AM »
Not sure how well this fits here Formless, but I am kind of curious since I have taken some pains to educate myself with some inspiration from you. I was wondering your impression of how the Kingdom is dealing with change since King Salaman is likely the last son of Ibn Saud to sit the throne and he is not a young man either. Then from all I have read the Royal Family is slowly moving away from being quite so secular.

I was wondering how that seems to be playing with the average citizen on the street not to mention politics within the Royal Family?

Offline FormlessTopic starter

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #605 on: April 15, 2016, 01:23:07 PM »
I'm really glad I could have such a positive impression! ;D

Well, Salman is the last willing son of Abdulaziz to rule. He has a handful of brothers who aren't willing to rule. The heirs have been decided by the Royal Congress (The literal translation to this phrase would be the Royal Allegiance). Of course the Royal Congress was Established during the times of Abdullah, before his time , the new appointed King would issue a decree as to who becomes the Heir. That is what we're told anyway. I honestly cannot fathom what'll happen when after him. But the current happenings are more interesting.

Since the time of Abdullah, the country has been shifting away from Religion as a governing tool. But all in subtle changes. However in the past year there were too many changes. Like how now women do not require a ' guardian ' to represent them in any official or governmental department. Before , if a woman wants to start a business , she can own it , but she can't apply to it without a male guardian to do so.

Right now , most are anticipating a new ruling to be passed that will stop any ' vigilante religious police actions'. If this happens , this means that any member of the religious police cannot question, interrogate, arrest or interfer with anyone, unless they have a formal order issued by the 'real police'.

Courtrooms are still under the Sharia Law. The government systems are operating under a royal constitute rather than a religious one. Yet Banks still adhere to the laws of religion , since it benefits them greatly. Imagine the banks gaining all the benefits from your money , and they're not obliged to give you any interests because interests goes against the Islamic teachings ...

I hope this answers your question, Retribution? ;D

Offline Retribution

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Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #606 on: April 15, 2016, 01:31:18 PM »
It does and thank you. From the outside looking in I would describe it as growing pains of a nation. I hope your growing pains go better than ours did when we were about the same age as a country. We had a little dispute commonly called the first modern war and butchered each other to the tune of about  620,000 dead.

Offline FormlessTopic starter

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #607 on: April 15, 2016, 02:31:33 PM »
War's a pain wherever it is. I really hope no rift happens now or later on. :-\

Offline Oniya

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Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #608 on: April 16, 2016, 05:39:03 PM »
I saw something that amused and intrigued me on Facebook a moment ago.  Someone posted that 'in Islam, it is not good to kill a spider, because a spider saved Muhammed's life.'  Is this an actual story?  (Not inquiring about the 'historical accuracy', just whether it is something that is commonly told.)

Offline FormlessTopic starter

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #609 on: April 16, 2016, 06:02:35 PM »
I saw something that amused and intrigued me on Facebook a moment ago.  Someone posted that 'in Islam, it is not good to kill a spider, because a spider saved Muhammed's life.'  Is this an actual story?  (Not inquiring about the 'historical accuracy', just whether it is something that is commonly told.)

There's nothing holy about Spiders as to think that they shouldn't be harmed or not. Spiders , just like every other creature , shouldn't be harmed if there is no danger unto one's self.

But I think that's related to Mohammad's escape from Makkah to Medinah when Quraish wanted to kill him. The story goes , that Mohammad and Abu Baker hid in a small cave, one has to crawl to get into it , and it wasn't deep either , a person could see whose inside if they merely squatted down. So they say a spider weaved its house on the entrance of that cave after Mohammad and his companion hid inside it. Which made the pursuers to think that they didn't hide in there because a spider's house was still intact.

Offline ladia2287

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #610 on: May 09, 2016, 10:13:11 PM »
It's been a while since I poked my head in here, but a friend of mine is to be married soon and celebrated her Hen's Night this weekend just passed, and it reminded me of an interesting anecdote that I learned years ago, that not many people I've met actually know.

If I remember correctly, 'Hen's night' is (very) loosely based on an Arab tradition, where all the female relatives of the Bride gather to help her prepare for her wedding, and the name comes from the fact that henna is often applied to the Bride's hands and feet, and sometimes her hair.

And given the intricacy of the designs and the intense amount of skill required, it would take up much of the night.

And there's my fun fact for the day.

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Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #611 on: September 14, 2016, 10:42:22 AM »
*Tries to think of a good question to ask.*

So is there a version of the Seven Heavenly Virtues in Islam?
(Humility against pride, Kindness against envy, Abstinence against gluttony, Chastity against lust, Patience against anger, Liberality against greed, and Diligence against sloth.)

Or are the Pilars of Islam pretty much it already?

Offline FormlessTopic starter

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #612 on: September 14, 2016, 11:09:49 PM »
*Tries to think of a good question to ask.*

So is there a version of the Seven Heavenly Virtues in Islam?
(Humility against pride, Kindness against envy, Abstinence against gluttony, Chastity against lust, Patience against anger, Liberality against greed, and Diligence against sloth.)

Or are the Pilars of Islam pretty much it already?

While they're not grouped together in a single verse or Hadith, these virtues been mentioned repeatedly in both Qur'an and Hadiths.

And some of them are the pretty much the basis of the Islamic Faith. Kindness, Humility and Patience.

Patience specifically is attributed to the highest ranks of heaven. Since Prophets go through the most hardships (Without exclusion to any Prophet who received the word of god) it is told they will reside in the highest reaches of heaven.

Of course the opposite of these virtues are abhorred by the faith. Anger, being the gate to satanic influence. (But then again, when did anger result in anything good?) Gluttony goes against one of the Islamic pillars, the Zakat, Or Alms in english.

I suppose its the same with any heavenly religion when it comes to these virtues. ;D

Offline Skynet

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #613 on: September 15, 2016, 12:56:16 AM »
Prayer Bumps: So a thing I've heard among older Muslims is the formation of a blemish/callus upon the forehead from decades of performing the Salat. I heard that it's not exactly common, mostly done from repeated contact with hard surfaces over a long period of time.

How common is it for older Muslims to have an obvious 'prayer bump?'

Offline FormlessTopic starter

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #614 on: September 15, 2016, 07:25:02 AM »
Prayer Bumps: So a thing I've heard among older Muslims is the formation of a blemish/callus upon the forehead from decades of performing the Salat. I heard that it's not exactly common, mostly done from repeated contact with hard surfaces over a long period of time.

How common is it for older Muslims to have an obvious 'prayer bump?'

Well ... Its not common in my country. And I'd say not too common in the rest of the Islamic community. Some would even claim that no one is that devout, and instead fake these 'bumps' just to give the impression that they're too devout.

I myself have only seen it when I attended the Hajj both times.

Offline niinja

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #615 on: September 27, 2016, 12:42:09 AM »
What level of poverty are Sufi Muslims expected to live by? How far does their asceticism go generally?

Are they allowed to use modern technology such as electronics, phones, running water, etc? Are they allowed to own private property beyond the clothes on their backs, or live in non-communal settings?

They are allowed to use technology only to the extent of only 'using it' and not 'attaching' with it. The main thing ascetic people follow is they don't get attached to the world. They do use it but they don't love it. Something like that. It's been a while for me I stopped reading about sufism.

Offline Skynet

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #616 on: October 12, 2016, 12:28:11 AM »
So, what was the deal with the Assassin organization? I don't know if it's directly or tangentially related to Islam, in that there's a lot of things that have been said or believed about them over time. Their records they kept in their fortress of Alamut were burned by the Mongols, leaving only secondary sources.

What I do know is that they were a military group dedicated to the overthrow of various governments in the Caliphate, and also fought against the European Crusaders, accomplishing this via violent actions. Most of their members were of the Ismaili sub-sect. It was also believed that their members used the drug hashish; I heard alternating theories that it was used to drug recruits into taking them to a splendid castle the Order's leader claimed to be heaven, and were drugged again and taken to their original location. This was used to trick recruits via the promise of paradise if they joined his cause. I also heard that the Assassins believed that hashish would enhance their fighting prowess, thus their use. Some said that the idea of them as drug-users was a work of fiction.

What was the assassin's end-game, if it is known? Did they want to destroy the Caliphate, or rather take it over with their own leaders?

Did they have uniforms, such as the white robes like in Assassin's Creed? Or did they use plainclothes instead?

Also, given that their activities were prominent when the Middle East was under assault from foreign forces (Crusaders and Mongols), was their creation intentional in the sense that this proved a prime opportunity to attack a weakened government? Or was the Order's creation older than the invasions, and an advantageous set of circumstances helped them rise further in power?
« Last Edit: October 12, 2016, 12:33:50 AM by Skynet »

Offline Sabre

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #617 on: October 12, 2016, 01:18:12 AM »
In the Middle Ages, a lot of Shi'ite religious groups adopted elements of political revolution into their movement. There were a lot of these in the wake of successive civil wars and eventual political collapse of the caliphate. The usual endgame was the establishment of an Imamate, a Shi'ite theocracy to succeed what was seen as the corrupt and worldly Sunni regimes around them. Though we don't have much on the Assassins, I suspect there was some eschatology involved as with the Qarmatians or the Anabaptists of the Münster Rebellion. Rather than simply depose and take over the Caliphate, they likely wanted to establish a commune and state all to themselves.

Offline FormlessTopic starter

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #618 on: October 12, 2016, 11:28:55 AM »
I agree with Sabre on what their goals were.

Basically instead of waging wars, they opted to assassinate prime political figures to pave the path for more favorable candidates ... Or so I think was their way of shaping the political map. Ultimately it was to set their sect as the dominant sect in Persia and Sham.

Hashish (after looking up the difference between that and weed) is just a stronger drug than weed, but from the same origin. Was it used to recruit people into their service? I doubt it. And the uniforms ... I really don't think anyone who wants to mingle in society and carry out an assassination would wear something unique.

Also their castle , "AlMaut" means "Death's Castle". Perhaps just a way to reinforce their assassination methods.

Ultimately, I think they met their end before any true goals were achieved.

Offline Oniya

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Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #619 on: October 12, 2016, 02:12:54 PM »
And the uniforms ... I really don't think anyone who wants to mingle in society and carry out an assassination would wear something unique.

On a slightly related note, the idea that ninjas had a 'uniform' is also highly unlikely.  Gamer commentary here.

Offline FormlessTopic starter

Re: Islam , A variety of discussions from a non extreme perspective.
« Reply #620 on: October 12, 2016, 02:49:52 PM »
On a slightly related note, the idea that ninjas had a 'uniform' is also highly unlikely.  Gamer commentary here.

I think Ninjas just caught a bad case of 'modernization'. ::)