You are either not logged in or not registered with our community. Click here to register.
 
December 02, 2016, 06:30:46 PM

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length

Click here if you are having problems.
Default Wide Screen Beige Lilac Rainbow Black & Blue October Send us your theme!

Hark!  The Herald!
Holiday Issue 2016

Wiki Blogs Dicebot

Author Topic: Moving the Winter Olympics...  (Read 13979 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline gaggedLouise

  • Quim Queen | Collaborative juicy writer
  • Champion
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Jan 2011
  • Location: Scandinavia
  • Gender: Female
  • Bound, gagged and unarmed but still dangerous.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Moving the Winter Olympics...
« Reply #25 on: August 09, 2013, 08:14:41 PM »
Forgive me, but that seems to be the entire argument of this thread?  That Russia is enforcing a law many people disagree with and hence the IOC should step in.

To me at least*, the possible need for action is qualified by the law in question being intrusive and carrying a serious risk of kicking LGBT athletes, journalists or spectators in the face for doing things that are perfectly natural, and which nobody would think twice about if it were straight people. Yes, the Russian duma and cabinet who pushed through this law wouldn't agree at all, but I think that's their problem.


*but also to some of the others I think.

Offline gaggedLouise

  • Quim Queen | Collaborative juicy writer
  • Champion
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Jan 2011
  • Location: Scandinavia
  • Gender: Female
  • Bound, gagged and unarmed but still dangerous.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Moving the Winter Olympics...
« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2013, 08:23:39 PM »
I wouldn't have bothered if Russia had instituted a law banning smoking at sports events and set up heavy penalties. The aim of this anti-"gay propaganda" law takes it to a different level.

Offline Kythia

  • Noooo-one Fights like Kythia no-one bites like Kythia
  • Dame
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2012
  • Gender: Female
  • No one chain smokes Marlboro lights like Kythia
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 1
Re: Moving the Winter Olympics...
« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2013, 08:27:24 PM »
Sorry, I think we're talking about two slightly different things here.  Or possibly I'm just reading you wrong, if so I apologise.

Russia has this law.  Regardless of whether we think it should or not, it does.  Russia is saying (for the sake of argument) that it will enforce this law.  My point is that that is an entirely reasonable position for Russia to take.  It's elected representatives have passed a law and the situation is no different than the UK saying "we will arrest foreign athletes who commit murder" last year (not that they did, to my knowledge, but you get my point).  Saying the IOC should cancel is a dangerous precedent - you raise the example earlier of the US and the death penalty.  It makes the IOC into a moral guardian saying which countries are good and bad, and they have no oversight but themselves. 

Now.  The flipside is that this law discriminates against a certain class of individual.  It's a bad, morally bad, law.  I don't argue that.  If individual athletes follow their conscience and refuse to attend then fine.  If individual NOCs boycott then also fine.  If you, sat at home, choose not to watch any in a personal boycott then fine.  But Russia saying "we will enforce our laws" isn't a bad thing.  In most cases it would go without saying.  My sole issue is with saying the IOC should intervene to criticise a sovereign state's laws when they don't affect the core of the IOC's purpose.  If Russia was banning LGB people altogether, analogous with apartheid era South Africa, that would be different.  It falls within the IOC's remit.  But this issue, to my mind, doesn't at all.

Offline Oniya

  • StoreHouse of Useless Trivia
  • Oracle
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Location: Just bouncing through. Hi! City of Roses, Pennsylvania
  • Gender: Female
  • One bad Motokifuka. Also cute and FLUFFY!
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: Moving the Winter Olympics...
« Reply #28 on: August 09, 2013, 08:37:50 PM »
They may not be banning them all-together, but any LGBT people who attend are theoretically at risk for legal problems for doing the same things that heterosexual, cis-gendered people would be expected to do in the same circumstances.

Let's say that Mr. Oniya and myself got tickets to the Olympics.  Let's also say that George Takei and his partner, Brad, also attended, and were seated next to us.  (Hey, if you're gonna dream, dream big!)  We're all sitting there, cheering on the US biathalon competitor (skiing and shooting, what's not to love?), and against all odds ('cause Northern Europe usually has this sewn up), the US athlete takes the gold!

All four of us leap to our feet and hug our spouses.  George and Brad have just committed (by the way the law is phrased) an act of 'homosexual propaganda' and are duly led off by the police.  Mr. Oniya and I are ignored.

Offline Kythia

  • Noooo-one Fights like Kythia no-one bites like Kythia
  • Dame
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2012
  • Gender: Female
  • No one chain smokes Marlboro lights like Kythia
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 1
Re: Moving the Winter Olympics...
« Reply #29 on: August 09, 2013, 08:44:05 PM »
We're agreeing here, Oniya.  It seems to me, at least.

Yes, the bill discriminates.  That's pretty unarguable.  Yes, other nations should speak up - I know loads are.  Yes, individual nations have the right to be so disgusted that they boycott.

But the IOC is a non-political organisation.  Or should be at least.  This is a political matter.  A legal matter.  A human right's matter.  Not a sporting matter.

Offline gaggedLouise

  • Quim Queen | Collaborative juicy writer
  • Champion
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Jan 2011
  • Location: Scandinavia
  • Gender: Female
  • Bound, gagged and unarmed but still dangerous.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Moving the Winter Olympics...
« Reply #30 on: August 09, 2013, 08:57:59 PM »
Well, I think this law risks interfering directly with the game events, both with the athletes and with spectators and journalists. A law against murder has next to no risk of doing that, since no one would try to commit a murder at or around an Olympic arena, nor is there likely to be cases when a murder is directly triggered by something that happened at an Olympic event. When was the last time you heard of two Olympic athletes, or two football players, embroiled in a killing because of a personal beef or fit of envy linked to their sports?  ???

The crucial question when it comes to judging the risks is of course, how strict are the Russian police going to be when it comes to "displaying personal affection or joy" in connection with the events? So far, the comments by Russian politicians have been vague or contradictory. Is it going to be seen as LGBT propaganda if an athlete or a spectator embraces and kisses her best friend, perhaps minutes after the athlete or another LGBT athlete has triumphed? Would an athlete who did this get yanked in by the cops if it happened on live tv camera? Or in the Olympic village? We don't know. But just the threat of enforcing this kind of law against perfectly ordinary human affection has something very nasty to it.

To do their best at a high-profile sports event, athletes should be able to feel at all times that they are safe against arbitrary violence and unwarranted intrusion on their persons. This law treats LGBT athletes (and their significant others and friends) as potential criminals.

People identify with great athletes, and enjoy watching them, not just in seeing them as experts in delivering an amazing feat, a record, a skilled jump, but for who the athlete ís as a human, the personal factor. If a coloured athlete makes the first big win of her kind in a sport, if an athlete from your own country or someone who has had a difficult road scores gold, people cheer not just for the result but for what they see in the person. When Jesse Owens triumphed in Berlin, he wasn't just seen as an American athlete but as a black athlete, who proved that non-white runners, or any kind of non-white person, could triumph over racism. If an openly LGBT skier would win the alpine world cup, or an Olympic medal in slalom, people would perceive it as a victory on behalf of LGBT persons - even many straight people would sense that, and accept it. Of course you'd get outpourings of wild joy and emotion, some of it in public and on camera, or in the social media. I think that's where this law becomes really problematic as seen against the Olympic games.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2013, 09:06:51 PM by gaggedLouise »

Offline Kythia

  • Noooo-one Fights like Kythia no-one bites like Kythia
  • Dame
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2012
  • Gender: Female
  • No one chain smokes Marlboro lights like Kythia
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 1
Re: Moving the Winter Olympics...
« Reply #31 on: August 09, 2013, 09:06:15 PM »
When was the last time you heard of two Olympic athletes, or two football players, embroiled in a killing because of a personal beef or fit of envy linked to their sports?  ???

Last month  :P

But anyway.  Yes, the law could affect the sporting matters.  And that's why the IOC are looking at it.  But if it doesn't then its no more the IOC's problem than it is the International Whaling Commission's.

But meh.  I'm repeating myself now which is a pretty clear sign I've run out of useful things to say.

Offline gaggedLouise

  • Quim Queen | Collaborative juicy writer
  • Champion
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Jan 2011
  • Location: Scandinavia
  • Gender: Female
  • Bound, gagged and unarmed but still dangerous.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Moving the Winter Olympics...
« Reply #32 on: August 09, 2013, 09:12:19 PM »
Last month  :P

That one was new to me - but I've honestly never heard of anything like it before - stuff like the brief Football War in Central America doesn't count - and it didn't happen during any major championship. Indeed the article says it took a week for news of the killings to reach the wider media, because the location was so remote.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2013, 09:16:56 PM by gaggedLouise »

Offline Ephiral

  • The Firebrand Logica | Gender Ninja | Their Toy
  • Liege
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2013
  • Location: In between the lines, outside of the law, underneath the veil
  • Carpe diem per sol delenda.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Moving the Winter Olympics...
« Reply #33 on: August 09, 2013, 10:34:00 PM »
I think the difference between this and your example, Kythia, is twofold:

1. Several athletes are very openly gay. This puts them at added risk - they are obviously going to be subject to extra scrutiny. For that matter, "propaganda" is pretty damn vague. Is it "propaganda" if they do the standard PR spots or interviews expected of them after winning a medal, given that everyone knows they're gay? To my knowledge, there are no Olympic athletes who are openly serial killers.
2. This is a new law. A new moral law. Authorities have a tendency to crack down in a very high-profile manner, very hard, with laws like this to show that they need to be taken seriously. This is the highest-profile case they're going to get - and, as mentioned, they've already got at least a partial list of targets to examine closely. Who exactly should London have watched for murder, and does the law against murder need that sort of high-profile warning to get people to take it seriously?

EDIT:
Oh, fun fact: the Ugandan laws, among the most infamous, were cooked up and promoted by the American right-wing evangelical outfit called "the Family", the same organization that hosts the National Prayer Breakfast in the States.

...really? This explains so much. All of those organizations that are about "the family", like Focus on the Family, who seem to hate actual families? Suddenly they make sense.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2013, 10:39:04 PM by Ephiral »

Offline Cyrano Johnson

  • Lord
  • Seducer
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2012
  • Location: The Occidental Wilds of the Realm of Canadia.
  • Gender: Male
  • "Do what thou wilt" shall be the whole of the law.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Moving the Winter Olympics...
« Reply #34 on: August 09, 2013, 10:47:57 PM »
making a blanket statement that "any nation that says it will uphold its local laws should be grounds for a move/cancellation by the IOC" is farcical.

Fortunately, this really has nothing to do with what's being said. What's being said is that this law is in a different category from the normal run of "local laws" (yes, that includes laws about capital punishment), and by its nature poses a direct threat against participating LGBT athletes and denies their right to simply be who they are, and the IOC should by rights find that unacceptable. Even the vague will-we-or-won't-we bullshit currently being engaged in potentially (and it's a strong potential, Russia would not have passed this law at this time and producing this particular conflict lightly) poses that threat. We're not talking about a local ordnance against spitting gum on the street.

Even if you don't believe the IOC is a "political" organization (which IMO is fallacious; the IOC's brotherhood-among-nations mandate is quite directly political), that's not the issue. The issue is whether the IOC is willing to protect its LGBT athletes from such an absurd ordnance.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2013, 10:49:58 PM by Cyrano Johnson »

Offline Cyrano Johnson

  • Lord
  • Seducer
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2012
  • Location: The Occidental Wilds of the Realm of Canadia.
  • Gender: Male
  • "Do what thou wilt" shall be the whole of the law.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Moving the Winter Olympics...
« Reply #35 on: August 09, 2013, 11:13:05 PM »
...really? This explains so much. All of those organizations that are about "the family", like Focus on the Family, who seem to hate actual families? Suddenly they make sense.

Yeah, "the Family" is really quite sinister and creepy. The article I linked barely scratches the surface... which is why I'm willing to suspect them of much broader activities than just that fiasco in Uganda. (Not that I think they're responsible for Russia's particular fiasco, mind you, which seems to me to be the result of Orthodox collaboration with the sponsoring Russian gangster class that has more or less taken over the country's political establishment.)

Offline Florence

Re: Moving the Winter Olympics...
« Reply #36 on: August 10, 2013, 08:41:05 PM »
If the Olympics are held in Russia, I'm not having any part in it. I will not watch it, I will not talk about it, as far as I'm concerned, if its held in Russia, I'll be pretending it was canceled this year.

People arguing about how the Olympics shouldn't be involved in politics are forgetting that these policies are not just arbitrary things we don't approve of, they would be putting the contestants in very real danger. Russia is NOT a safe place to be gay right now, or even to sympathize with gay rights. The Olympics should be held someplace where our gay athletes don't have to fear for their lives. I would argue the same thing if Russia passed laws against interracial couples or anything else of the sort.

Normally I'm against comparisons to Hitler and the Nazi party as they're usually just an ad hominem, but in this case the resemblances are frightening. Sure Putin hasn't rounded up the gays into camps yet, but evil works one step at a time.

Online Dashenka

Re: Moving the Winter Olympics...
« Reply #37 on: August 12, 2013, 09:02:25 AM »
If the Olympics are held in Russia, I'm not having any part in it. I will not watch it, I will not talk about it, as far as I'm concerned, if its held in Russia, I'll be pretending it was canceled this year.

People arguing about how the Olympics shouldn't be involved in politics are forgetting that these policies are not just arbitrary things we don't approve of, they would be putting the contestants in very real danger. Russia is NOT a safe place to be gay right now, or even to sympathize with gay rights. The Olympics should be held someplace where our gay athletes don't have to fear for their lives. I would argue the same thing if Russia passed laws against interracial couples or anything else of the sort.

Normally I'm against comparisons to Hitler and the Nazi party as they're usually just an ad hominem, but in this case the resemblances are frightening. Sure Putin hasn't rounded up the gays into camps yet, but evil works one step at a time.

Although I agree that Putin's lost his marbles, boycotting the Olympics because of something YOU don't agree with is a bit hypocrit. That way we should boycot it in Canada as well for the clubbing of seals, in the US for the idiotic gun ownership laws and every other country in the world has something.

With that out of the way, this isn't something new. The IOC knew about it years ago, this bill has been coming for years. The Eurovision Songcontest years ago had the same questions asked, the FIFA World Cup will have the same questions asked when the time comes. I'm Russian and I'm gay and I left Russia earlier this year. Partly because of this reason, partly because of the other stuff going on there. As many stated before me, the IOC shouldn't intervere with politics.

You can be gay in Russia but you cannot promote it or walk about in pink leather suits with feathers on your head. Which, let's be brutally honest, is roughly the same as in most deeply conservative regions of the world so judging ONLY Russia for it is, again, hypocrit.

And then.... Comparing Putin to Hitler is just idiotic and shows you know nothing of what's going on in Russia, which is fine, but keep your opinion to yourself then.

Offline Ephiral

  • The Firebrand Logica | Gender Ninja | Their Toy
  • Liege
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2013
  • Location: In between the lines, outside of the law, underneath the veil
  • Carpe diem per sol delenda.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Moving the Winter Olympics...
« Reply #38 on: August 12, 2013, 02:14:42 PM »
You can be gay in Russia but you cannot promote it or walk about in pink leather suits with feathers on your head. Which, let's be brutally honest, is roughly the same as in most deeply conservative regions of the world so judging ONLY Russia for it is, again, hypocrit.
This is complete and total misrepresentation of the law as passed and you know it. Why would this law have been a factor in your leaving if that's all it prohibits?

Also, last I checked, nobody is judging "ONLY Russia". Or have we forgotten the mentions of the Uganda problem in this very thread?

You want people who Godwin to shut up? I'd agree to that rule, if we apply the same policy to blatant lies.

Offline Florence

Re: Moving the Winter Olympics...
« Reply #39 on: August 12, 2013, 02:29:37 PM »
Although I agree that Putin's lost his marbles, boycotting the Olympics because of something YOU don't agree with is a bit hypocrit. That way we should boycot it in Canada as well for the clubbing of seals, in the US for the idiotic gun ownership laws and every other country in the world has something.

With that out of the way, this isn't something new. The IOC knew about it years ago, this bill has been coming for years. The Eurovision Songcontest years ago had the same questions asked, the FIFA World Cup will have the same questions asked when the time comes. I'm Russian and I'm gay and I left Russia earlier this year. Partly because of this reason, partly because of the other stuff going on there. As many stated before me, the IOC shouldn't intervere with politics.

You can be gay in Russia but you cannot promote it or walk about in pink leather suits with feathers on your head. Which, let's be brutally honest, is roughly the same as in most deeply conservative regions of the world so judging ONLY Russia for it is, again, hypocrit.

And then.... Comparing Putin to Hitler is just idiotic and shows you know nothing of what's going on in Russia, which is fine, but keep your opinion to yourself then.

Again, its not JUST that I disagree with the policies (though I certainly do), its that Russia is NOT a safe place for any lgbt athletes at the moment. If there was some bizarro world where straight people were being persecuted like this, I'd say it was unsafe too.

And for the record, this isn't some minor policy that's kind of not nice. These policies are barbaric and disgusting, and frankly, I think the civilized world should have nothing to do with Russia until they change their ways. You can argue about China or what have you, but what's done is done, and unless you have a time machine, we can't exactly go back in time and undo things. What we can do is focus on the present and in the present we are faced with a country that is doing things that in 2013 are simply unacceptable for any nation claiming to be 'civilized'.

You can be gay in Russia, but can't be gay in public. Two straight people could make out in a public street, but if two men share a slight peck, they could be carted off to prison. Anti-gay mobs can beat gay people to death and government doesn't give a shit. I'm sorry, but I was raised to never tolerate injustice, and that's exactly what I'm seeing from Russia.

Yes, there are other countries that are just as bad, if not worse, and you know what, I'm disgusted with those countries too, and if you show me some way I can stick it to them, I'll happily sign on board for that too.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2013, 02:34:30 PM by Finn MacKenna »

Online Dashenka

Re: Moving the Winter Olympics...
« Reply #40 on: August 12, 2013, 03:01:13 PM »
I'm not trying to protect the law or justify it in any way, all I'm saying is that there are more countries in the world that have laws and rules that put some people in 'danger'.

One thing though, that you have to know about Russia. While homosexuality is accepted in most countries, in Russia, 75% of the population is against it. I don't know why but those are the facts. So for that law to be passed isn't all that shocking. You cannot be openly gay in Russia and if you are, you could get arrested, but if you stay at home and don't show your homosexuality out on the streets, you are perfectly allowed. Whether or not it's safe, that's a whole different story.

That said, I do believe that the athletes coming to the olympics are pretty safe from the police and the mobs. Sochi is a relatively small city far away from Moscow so I don't see any problems of sorts. Besides, the whole world is watching so the Russian government is going to want this to go smoothly.

I'd worry about other things more than this. I've lived in Moscow with my girlfriend for three years and nothing ever happened so some athletes in a small town in the olympic village should be alright. Only thing that could go wrong is when people start demonstrating against this law. Then it could (and probably will) get ugly.

Online Callie Del Noire

Re: Moving the Winter Olympics...
« Reply #41 on: August 12, 2013, 03:16:40 PM »
Do things like this merit opposition? yes.

Do we need to boycott the Olympic games? No. It didn't work for Carter the last time Russia sponsored the games.. it won't work now. It backfired on him back then.. and gave them the reason to blow off the LA Olympics years later.

It needs to be addressed, mentioned and victims need to be highlighted. So do the various minorities, migrants and LGBT folks in the detention camps in Greece. Without politicizing events occuring in EITHER country. Put the laundry up.. but leave the games alone.

Online Sethala

Re: Moving the Winter Olympics...
« Reply #42 on: August 13, 2013, 11:54:34 AM »
Nothing whatsoever.

The Olympics shouldn't be motivated by politics.  The IOC shouldn't be in a position to say "we approve of country X but not of country Y".  That's not what the Olympics are about, they're about sport.  There are many ways of bringing pressure to bear on a country  - the UN, internal factors, charities, etc - but the IOC isn't one of them.  Only when it affects the sport itself - such as Apartheid era South Africa - should the IOC step in.

Yanno, IMHO.

I may be in the minority, but I'd really don't want to see sports events used as political springboards.

No country is absolutely pristine, and I feel it is wrong to run the equivalent of a criminal record check on candidates before letting them organise sports events. The ancient Olympics were a time for city-states who were at each other's throats to call a truce and collaborate. We could do well to remember and do the same today.

I agree with this sentiment, but with the condition that the country in question has to be able to let the games run without any significant problems, and the vast majority of the athletes (at least 99%) need to feel safe and welcome, and not feel at the risk of violating local laws accidentally and face serious punishment for it.

So, to me it all depends on how harshly the laws are enforced.  If a gay athlete mentions that they're gay, or if they make a show of affection with a same-sex partner, will they be in trouble?  If the answer is ever "yes", then the games should be moved because of the safety of the athletes, not because of any political reasons.  The same goes for if the law would apply only to crew members or spectators and not to athletes, of course.

Yes, this law is abhorrent.  But I don't want to see the games used as some kind of political weight to swing around.  If the local laws would interfere with the games, that's different, but I see no reason to move the olympics if it's merely to protest.

Offline Florence

Re: Moving the Winter Olympics...
« Reply #43 on: August 13, 2013, 03:50:14 PM »
Well that's been my primary concern in this. I, personally, think a situation like this, and any other like it, deserves to have that country be shunned heavily by the rest of the civilized world, BUT my primary reason for saying the Olympics SHOULD be moved is because it does sound like it is a situation in which a number of athletes may not feel safe, and with good reason.

Offline Cyrano Johnson

  • Lord
  • Seducer
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2012
  • Location: The Occidental Wilds of the Realm of Canadia.
  • Gender: Male
  • "Do what thou wilt" shall be the whole of the law.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Moving the Winter Olympics...
« Reply #44 on: August 13, 2013, 07:51:13 PM »
Yeah, the more I watch this unfold, the less impressed I am that the IOC is staying "apolitical" by acceding to this law. The arguments are just obtuse, to the point of insult.

Offline Florence

Re: Moving the Winter Olympics...
« Reply #45 on: August 14, 2013, 02:09:18 AM »
Wow, that link.

I mean, I've been suspecting that they'd enforce it, hence why I've been saying the Olympics should be moved, but for them to actually confirm it and the response from the IOC to be, basically, "Deal with it." That's just... wow.

Now I'm sure I'm going to get people arguing with this point, saying that race and sexual orientation aren't the same. But I have to laugh at how different things would be if it was a race issue going on. "Oh uh... yeah... just... ya know, paint your faces white and you'll be fine."

If even a single gay athlete or spectator is arrested or harmed for anything as innocent as a celebratory kiss over a victory, I'm done with the Olympics. This is an obvious problem with an obvious solution, they need to fix it. These laws are intolerable and create an unsafe environment for anyone who happens to be gay or bisexual.

Offline Imogen

Re: Moving the Winter Olympics...
« Reply #46 on: August 14, 2013, 03:08:12 AM »
The Olympics are a sporting event. From what I read, it seems repeated that athletes and guests of the Olympics will be safe from arrest. I could imagine that subject to change if/when they turn that privilege into a LGBT promotion event, but it seems farfetched to assume that athletes or spectators will be hauled off to prison for a celebration hug - especially with official reassurances to the contrary. When I looked up articles on the matter on the internet, I noticed that most doom scenario's (arrest upon holding hands, hugging, saying you love your lesbian sister) have an LGBT spokesman as its source. While I have no clue whether they're right or wrong, I can't help but suspect a certain bias.

Quote
The International Olympic Committee said for the time being it is standing by reassurances that athletes and visitors attending the 2014 Sochi Games in Russia will not be affected by anti-gay legislation.

"We rest with comments made directly to us by deputy PM Kozak," IOC spokesman Mark Adams wrote in an email Thursday, referring to Russian deputy prime minster Dmitry Kozak.

The country's sports minister contradicted those assurances in an interview with state news agency R-Sport. "An athlete of nontraditional sexual orientation isn't banned from coming to Sochi. But if he goes out into the streets and starts to propagandize, then of course he will be held accountable," Vitaly Mutko said.

This is what I get when I track back sources to quotes from official sources. I read the article in the link Cyrano posted and very few of the underlaying references in that article come back to official channels. The one that does, offers the same moderated view and reassurance the athletes and guests will be safe from that law - unless they start to actively propagandize, which seems rather reasonable to me. It says nowhere they have to hide or stay in the closet; they can't propagandize... While I think that's bullshit, I also feel that is a far cry from the doom scenarios painted by their opposition who focus on how according to the law they could arrest people on the above mentioned innocent acts.

The writer from Cyrano's link posts this:

Quote
According to an IOC spokesperson, the Olympics aren’t the place for “proactive political or religious demonstration,” anyway. Just read the fine print: Rule 50 of the Olympic charter declares that “no kind of demonstration or political, religious or racial propaganda is permitted in any Olympic sites, venues or other areas.” By the IOC’s logic, gay people should be keeping quiet about their sexuality no matter what, in accordance with Rule 50. If they speak out and get arrested under Russian law—well, it’s not the IOC’s fault that they just couldn’t keep their mouths shut.

From this paragraph it states that the IOC would be in agreement that the Olympics are not the time/place for propaganda of any kind. That does not equal 'keeping quiet about their sexuality no matter what '. There is a HUGE difference between not using an event for propaganda and suppressing your sexual preferences. But no, there is no longer room for moderation in this debate. From what I read in the media I feel guilty for not siding with the LGBT movement. It has made me question my own identity. Am I a homophobic person? Am I coward, or equal to the many who did not stand up to Hitler? This is what many media messages want me to believe. If you do not support the moving of the Olympics unless the Russians change their laws, you are not in favor of human rights, of equality, and you are not the good person you've thought yourself to believe.

I almost didn't dare to write this post, for fear of the demonization of that befalls those who disagree, and that fear is alien to me... That I feel it now worries me almost as much as that Russian law.


Offline Avis habilis

Re: Moving the Winter Olympics...
« Reply #47 on: August 14, 2013, 07:18:50 AM »
From what I read, it seems repeated that athletes and guests of the Olympics will be safe from arrest.
Nope.

I almost didn't dare to write this post, for fear of the demonization of that befalls those who disagree, and that fear is alien to me... That I feel it now worries me almost as much as that Russian law.
I'm gonna go out on a limb & say the threat of being scolded online is pretty tepid compared the threat of ending up in a Russian jail for the crime of kissing your loved one in public.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2013, 07:25:07 AM by Avis habilis »

Offline Imogen

Re: Moving the Winter Olympics...
« Reply #48 on: August 14, 2013, 08:10:48 AM »
Nope.
I'm gonna go out on a limb & say the threat of being scolded online is pretty tepid compared the threat of ending up in a Russian jail for the crime of kissing your loved one in public.

Pardon me. I should have said "should be safe from arrest providing they don't engage in propaganda activities".

Again, no official report has mentioned that athletes or guests will be arrested and send to jail for kissing a loved one in public.

Quote
"People of nontraditional sexual orientations can take part in the competitions and all other events at the Games unhindered, without any fear for their safety whatsoever."

We seem so ready to believe the fear-inspiring messages from the media, but when reassurances are given.. nothing seems enough.

And Avis, nice touch in justifying my fear in posting my take on this.

Offline Ephiral

  • The Firebrand Logica | Gender Ninja | Their Toy
  • Liege
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2013
  • Location: In between the lines, outside of the law, underneath the veil
  • Carpe diem per sol delenda.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Moving the Winter Olympics...
« Reply #49 on: August 14, 2013, 08:48:37 AM »
Pardon me. I should have said "should be safe from arrest providing they don't engage in propaganda activities".
...like, say, hugging their loved ones in celebration upon victory, given that they will be on camera at the time.

Again, no official report has mentioned that athletes or guests will be arrested and send to jail for kissing a loved one in public.
But at least one has said they plan to enforce the law, which forbids homosexual propaganda. Based on what has already been cited as homosexual propaganda, this appears to include mentioning the word "gay", being overly high-profile while gay, or dressing too flamboyantly. An actual gay kiss on international TV would certainly qualify.

We seem so ready to believe the fear-inspiring messages from the media, but when reassurances are given.. nothing seems enough.
Non-contradictory messages would be a good start. As would enforcing other laws, such as the ones that should be preventing people from beating gay people in the street.

And Avis, nice touch in justifying my fear in posting my take on this.
You recieved a mild rebuke. To compare this to people who are at very real risk of violence or imprisonment merely for existing is kiiiiiinda offensive.