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Author Topic: World Serpent Inn Sandbox [Pathfinder] - Recruiting Players!  (Read 5019 times)

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Offline indarkestknightTopic starter

Re: World Serpent Inn Sandbox [Pathfinder] - Recruiting Players!
« Reply #200 on: June 27, 2013, 03:26:54 PM »
No, just those up to where you stop taking Sorcerer or Oracle levels.

Offline EroticFantasyAuthor

Re: World Serpent Inn Sandbox [Pathfinder] - Recruiting Players!
« Reply #201 on: June 27, 2013, 04:59:33 PM »
Hmm this looks rather interesting, but kind of overwhelmed with all the possibilities.

Would a dragon or yuan-ti be acceptable?

Offline indarkestknightTopic starter

Re: World Serpent Inn Sandbox [Pathfinder] - Recruiting Players!
« Reply #202 on: June 27, 2013, 05:33:24 PM »
Yes, they would.

You'd probably need to use Serpentfolk for Yuan-ti stats. Alternatively, you could use Vishkanya with Serpentine bloodline or Nagaji, or even that Yuan-ti-related race from FR's Champions of Ruin.

Offline EroticFantasyAuthor

Re: World Serpent Inn Sandbox [Pathfinder] - Recruiting Players!
« Reply #203 on: June 27, 2013, 07:26:02 PM »
What's wrong with converting Yuan-ti to Pathfinder via the handy 3.5 to Pathfinder conversion guide offered on Paizo's site?

Serpentfolk and Yuan-ti are very different.

Offline indarkestknightTopic starter

Re: World Serpent Inn Sandbox [Pathfinder] - Recruiting Players!
« Reply #204 on: June 27, 2013, 07:29:47 PM »
I suppose there's nothing wrong with it, if you'd much prefer to use 3.5 yuan-ti stats instead.

Offline EroticFantasyAuthor

Re: World Serpent Inn Sandbox [Pathfinder] - Recruiting Players!
« Reply #205 on: June 27, 2013, 07:53:55 PM »
Aye I would. I like that Paizo made an attempt with the Serpentfolk, but they're just not the same as Yuan-ti. I'd just rather use the stats of what I'm actually playing heh.

Offline indarkestknightTopic starter

Re: World Serpent Inn Sandbox [Pathfinder] - Recruiting Players!
« Reply #206 on: June 27, 2013, 07:58:30 PM »
By all means, then. Go right ahead.

Offline Sethala

Re: World Serpent Inn Sandbox [Pathfinder] - Recruiting Players!
« Reply #207 on: June 27, 2013, 08:41:40 PM »
Acctually, after talking about it with Shadow, I'm thinking an arcane trickster might work better for what I'm going for with her abilities.  Probably still Sorcerer as the casting class, so I can still go with a high cha/dex build and take advantage of being a catgirl.

Offline indarkestknightTopic starter

Re: World Serpent Inn Sandbox [Pathfinder] - Recruiting Players!
« Reply #208 on: June 27, 2013, 08:59:20 PM »
Looking forward to her, either way.  :-)

Offline EroticFantasyAuthor

Re: World Serpent Inn Sandbox [Pathfinder] - Recruiting Players!
« Reply #209 on: June 27, 2013, 11:59:55 PM »
For the dragon, I'd want a Mature Adult Green. Cr 13 with 17 HD. If we're going with Pathfinder's normal monster race rule of CR = level, then he'd be a level 13 character(one level left over for a class).

Offline indarkestknightTopic starter

Re: World Serpent Inn Sandbox [Pathfinder] - Recruiting Players!
« Reply #210 on: June 28, 2013, 12:12:41 AM »
Right. Well, I think that's about the same HD total as the Satyr... I am a touch worried about the HD total, I admit, considering how strong dragon HD are...

Would you mind taking your levels as 'virtual' levels until party level catches up with your HD? So you'll start with 17 Dragon HD, and get the full benefits of the class you take, except for those related to HD (spellcasting, bloodline, bonus feats, what-have-you) except for HD (hp, saves, BAB) until the party at large hits level 17.

Online Kunoichi

Re: World Serpent Inn Sandbox [Pathfinder] - Recruiting Players!
« Reply #211 on: June 28, 2013, 12:34:48 AM »
Hmm, d12 HP, full BAB, all good saves, 6+int skill points with a pretty varied skill list...  Yeah, Dragon HD are quite good. ^^; That said, I think that what indarkestknight is proposing is that you'd be able to take, say, Sorcerer levels as you level up, and while your HP, skills, saves and so on wouldn't increase, you'd still be gaining Sorcerer class features and spellcasting.  Which is a pretty good tradeoff, I think.

Offline EroticFantasyAuthor

Re: World Serpent Inn Sandbox [Pathfinder] - Recruiting Players!
« Reply #212 on: June 28, 2013, 01:21:22 AM »
Well part of the CR 13 is that 17 HD.

Remember, a dragon's sorcerer caster level is based off of it's age category, not it's HD.  ;)

Please explain virtual levels in more depth.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2013, 01:26:42 AM by EroticFantasyAuthor »

Offline indarkestknightTopic starter

Re: World Serpent Inn Sandbox [Pathfinder] - Recruiting Players!
« Reply #213 on: June 28, 2013, 01:49:04 AM »
Well, yes, true, but you're also getting PC wealth and point buy.

It's not unlike the sorcerer spellcasting dragons get, only you'd be getting all the features of the virtual class levels you took. Bloodline, etc, up to whatever your virtual level is.

Keep in mind I did hack a few HD off of the Neothelid already since it was already at the cusp of epic.

Offline EroticFantasyAuthor

Re: World Serpent Inn Sandbox [Pathfinder] - Recruiting Players!
« Reply #214 on: June 28, 2013, 01:55:05 AM »
No, wealth would be given based on effective character level. The dragon would be getting the wealth of a 14 level character, rather than a 17 level character.

13 CR + 1 Class Level = ECL of 14.

The neothelid is a CR 15, so right off the bat is 1 level above the starting level.

Keep in mind the dragon isn't getting bonus feats, spell progression, animal companions, sneak attack, rage, etc from it's HD.

All a dragon's HD gives them is HP, skill ranks and bab/saves progression. That's it.

Not to mention that the character would be spending most of it's time in humanoid form.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2013, 01:57:45 AM by EroticFantasyAuthor »

Offline indarkestknightTopic starter

Re: World Serpent Inn Sandbox [Pathfinder] - Recruiting Players!
« Reply #215 on: June 28, 2013, 01:58:25 AM »
I didn't mean you'd be getting 17th level character wealth.

I meant that a CR 14 monster- even a level 14 NPC- doesn't carry around as much wealth as a level 14 PC.

Yes, and I'm saying that the virtual levels you'd take would be give would give you the spell progression, bonus feats, animal companions, rage, etc, though, in this case, you'd only start with one virtual level.

That said, if it bothers you that much, it's not worth making a huge fuss over. You can just take the level on top of the 17 HD, no "virtual".

Offline ShadowFox89

Re: World Serpent Inn Sandbox [Pathfinder] - Recruiting Players!
« Reply #216 on: June 28, 2013, 01:59:22 AM »
 Dragons also have the BEST HD, skills, bab, and saves in the GAME, immunity to sleep and paralysis effects, immunity to their energy type... They are on the high-end of their CR rating, no matter what CR they are. PLUS spells.

Offline EroticFantasyAuthor

Re: World Serpent Inn Sandbox [Pathfinder] - Recruiting Players!
« Reply #217 on: June 28, 2013, 02:05:43 AM »
Dragons also have the BEST HD, skills, bab, and saves in the GAME, immunity to sleep and paralysis effects, immunity to their energy type... They are on the high-end of their CR rating, no matter what CR they are. PLUS spells.

Yes, but that is all they get. They don't get sneak attack, they don't get bonus feats, they don't get full spell progress(most of them), they don't get bardic performance, they don't get rage, etc. 

Pretty much every special ability a dragon gets is based on it's age category, and I would be surprised if it would be raising over the course of the campaign.

Offline ShadowFox89

Re: World Serpent Inn Sandbox [Pathfinder] - Recruiting Players!
« Reply #218 on: June 28, 2013, 02:10:14 AM »
 You have spell resistance. You have damage reduction. You have five flavors of making things go ouchies. You have flying. You have at-will spell-likes. You won't have a single ability below 16. You have +22 natural armor.

 You don't have class abilities, because what you have laughs in the face of most class abilities and steals it's lunch money.

Offline EroticFantasyAuthor

Re: World Serpent Inn Sandbox [Pathfinder] - Recruiting Players!
« Reply #219 on: June 28, 2013, 02:26:35 AM »
Exactly, dragons get those special abilities because they do not get class abilities. Those special abilities are their class abilities. So if you weakened a dragon(by decreasing HD for example) you'd then need to give it some standard character class abilities to once again make it balanced, which would just be needlessly complicated.

The bestiary itself suggests that in cases where a race has HD, CR should equal character level.

A mature adult green dragon is CR 13, so it is a race that is equivalent to Level 13 character. If you weaken or take some of those bonuses that a dragon gets based on it's 13 CR away, you're bringing it down to a lower level character.

Online Kunoichi

Re: World Serpent Inn Sandbox [Pathfinder] - Recruiting Players!
« Reply #220 on: June 28, 2013, 02:34:07 AM »
Speaking of lowering HD and CR, I'd like to point out that a precedent has been set with the Neothelid character that's already been approved.  In that case, the character lost 5 HD and had its CR lowered by 1.

Apply the same math to the Green Dragon, and you get a CR 12 monster with 12 HD, which would leave room for two character levels.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2013, 02:35:42 AM by Kunoichi »

Offline ShadowFox89

Re: World Serpent Inn Sandbox [Pathfinder] - Recruiting Players!
« Reply #221 on: June 28, 2013, 02:36:37 AM »
 I'm already feeling underwhelming compared to the two demons we have :/

Offline indarkestknightTopic starter

Re: World Serpent Inn Sandbox [Pathfinder] - Recruiting Players!
« Reply #222 on: June 28, 2013, 02:40:00 AM »
Just to be clear, the virtual levels I'm advocating would not be taking away any of the green dragon's natural abilities OR any of its dragon hit dice.

That said.

If this were 3.5, a mature adult dragon PC would, under the Level Adjustment/ECL rules, be the equivalent of an epic human PC. In comparison, Pathfinder rules are quite lenient.

Someone wanted the chance to play a handmaiden devil PC. That would make her happy. I let her.

You want to play a mature adult green dragon PC. That will make you happy. That's fine. I'm happy to let you do just that.

I just want everyone to have fun.

Please, guys, don't make me regret the decision to allow monster PCs.

Offline EroticFantasyAuthor

Re: World Serpent Inn Sandbox [Pathfinder] - Recruiting Players!
« Reply #223 on: June 28, 2013, 02:45:39 AM »
I'm not sure that I'm completely understanding the virtual levels, can you please explain them in more depth?

Speaking of lowering HD and CR, I'd like to point out that a precedent has been set with the Neothelid character that's already been approved.  In that case, the character lost 5 HD and had its CR lowered by 1.

Apply the same math to the Green Dragon, and you get a CR 12 monster with 12 HD, which would leave room for two character levels.

The green dragon is not above starting level though, it's a CR 13, rather than a CR 15. So that math is not needed for the green dragon.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2013, 02:50:08 AM by EroticFantasyAuthor »

Offline indarkestknightTopic starter

Re: World Serpent Inn Sandbox [Pathfinder] - Recruiting Players!
« Reply #224 on: June 28, 2013, 02:50:14 AM »
I'm not sure that I'm completely understanding the virtual levels, can you please explain them in more depth?

I think it might be best to just drop the idea of virtual levels at this point if it's causing this much confusion.