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Author Topic: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming  (Read 16848 times)

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Offline Inkidu

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Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #525 on: June 24, 2013, 03:22:49 PM »
Higher Processing power allows for larger worlds, more 'tricks' as you said it, better AI, better mechanics, better physics, better almost anything that isn't 'graphics'.

Graphics are not the only ways that games can progress.

I expect we'll be seeing some very impressive things out of this generation all around.
I get that, but they're not really playing that up and it bugs me, even on the PS3. The problem with relying on A.I. and worlds is that there are... "human limits" on how much we can tolerate. If your A.I. is too smart it actual, makes the game less fun if your world is too big even if it's dense there are still upward "fun" limitations. It's basically the same reason why you're not medevaced, hospitalized, and have to go through a month or more of rehab. I just don't see it being that big a leap for various reasons.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2013, 03:23:56 PM by Inkidu »

Offline Slywyn

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #526 on: June 24, 2013, 04:15:58 PM »
Making the AI too smart is not the problem. It's making the AI Fake-smart(Via cheating in their favor and such) that is the problem.

Smart AI actually allow for a better and more rewarding play experience.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #527 on: June 24, 2013, 04:27:58 PM »
Making the AI too smart is not the problem. It's making the AI Fake-smart(Via cheating in their favor and such) that is the problem.

Smart AI actually allow for a better and more rewarding play experience.
Except for the fact unless you know it's cheating then you don't really know the difference, and if you assume it's cheating then the A.I. is tainted even if it's not actually cheating. Besides, I highly doubt this generation is going to have A.I. that's any smarter. :\

Offline Chris Brady

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #528 on: June 25, 2013, 12:49:36 AM »
And the issue is that most people will never notice anything that's 'not graphics'.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #529 on: June 25, 2013, 07:39:16 AM »
And the issue is that most people will never notice anything that's 'not graphics'.'s a a
Well, it's actually kind of  important in the early "reveal' phase of a new consoles because it's the only thing you can judge for yourself. The rest is just the party line and bluster as far as I'm concerned without a controller in my hand. :\

I'm really not one of those guys who goes only for graphics but I'm not saying they're not important. They're often the most visceral and concrete show of power for many people because it's what they see first. It's tjust this generation doesn't seem to be about the gaming, it seems to be about "connectivity" and honestly that's probably a war a console does not need to join, see is there are smaller, cheaper, and more powerful devices. :\

I see this generation really catching its stride a few years in when developers learn the tricks and tools of the new systems, but for now it almost seems like they're doing it out of habit, "Well guys, it's that time, lets just get the next console out there, it's what they're expecting."

Offline Boxy

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #530 on: June 25, 2013, 09:53:28 AM »
Better AI would be nice.  Particularly for games like Metal Gear Solid(hoping V has pretty good stuff).  Some games could have probably used some this gen - NPCs in GTA4 seemed particularly stupid, and while I haven't played it myself, some of the enemies in the Last of Us don't seem all too bright.  As far as cheap AI goes, I think one of the worst would be the Elites from Halo Reach.  Not that all games need it, though.  Games like Mario or Sonic should be pretty simple when it comes to that.

Offline MoralineTopic starter

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #531 on: June 25, 2013, 01:59:04 PM »
Higher Processing power allows for larger worlds, more 'tricks' as you said it, better AI, better mechanics, better physics, better almost anything that isn't 'graphics'.

Graphics are not the only ways that games can progress.

I expect we'll be seeing some very impressive things out of this generation all around.
Slywyn has it perfectly correct. The processing power and ability to work with greater quantities of data will mean that worlds can be more immersive. - Have more tricks -

This is way more important then graphics updates could ever be. Graphics are great but it's being able to actively use all those fancy detailed images in new or more ways that will make the big difference.

You'll see the difference when you can turn every doorknob in a building, open every window. Talk to every NPC in the game world and not get rehashed responses.

You'll see the difference when the world can change dynamically and more fluidly around you as a player. The idea that goals, quests, and story line can be less and less linear.

And yeah.... the games are going to get more connected.. for better or worse. For me it's a plus, but I get that for some it's not.

((Personally for me, what I'm waiting on is the next big leap in internet connectivity when latency times between world locations become irrelevant. In some places it's getting there quickly, unfortunately for others (like Ink) it's still lagging far behind.))

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #532 on: June 25, 2013, 02:53:58 PM »
Slywyn has it perfectly correct. The processing power and ability to work with greater quantities of data will mean that worlds can be more immersive. - Have more tricks -

This is way more important then graphics updates could ever be. Graphics are great but it's being able to actively use all those fancy detailed images in new or more ways that will make the big difference.

You'll see the difference when you can turn every doorknob in a building, open every window. Talk to every NPC in the game world and not get rehashed responses.

You'll see the difference when the world can change dynamically and more fluidly around you as a player. The idea that goals, quests, and story line can be less and less linear.

And yeah.... the games are going to get more connected.. for better or worse. For me it's a plus, but I get that for some it's not.

((Personally for me, what I'm waiting on is the next big leap in internet connectivity when latency times between world locations become irrelevant. In some places it's getting there quickly, unfortunately for others (like Ink) it's still lagging far behind.))
I get that, but you can't really show that. They're not saying, "Hey we can do more!" they're saying, "If you're connected to the internet and our cloud we can do more." The hardware of the machines doesn't seem as important, and it really isn't that exciting. There's a difference between knowing what something can (or in this case probably more of a might might) do and seeing it. :\

Offline Slywyn

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #533 on: June 25, 2013, 03:14:34 PM »
It'll be better later, pessimism doesn't help.

Offline MoralineTopic starter

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #534 on: June 25, 2013, 03:17:32 PM »
I get that, but you can't really show that. They're not saying, "Hey we can do more!" they're saying, "If you're connected to the internet and our cloud we can do more." The hardware of the machines doesn't seem as important, and it really isn't that exciting. There's a difference between knowing what something can (or in this case probably more of a might might) do and seeing it. :\

Well that's sort of what PS4 was trying to do when they had their big Launch Announcement and they showed off the video game, Watch_Dogs.

The intent of that display was to show how immersive and interactive the new gaming worlds were going to be.

PS4 never really talked that much about cloud connection during their launch conference. XBOne on the other hand wouldn't shut up about it.

And to be honest.. I think you're a bit fixated on it as well. I'm sure it's because the idea frightens you as a result of your personal internet circumstances but I don't think it's going to be quite as bad as you think it is. At least not with the PS4... XBOne I can't vouch for at all.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #535 on: June 25, 2013, 03:48:41 PM »
Well that's sort of what PS4 was trying to do when they had their big Launch Announcement and they showed off the video game, Watch_Dogs.

The intent of that display was to show how immersive and interactive the new gaming worlds were going to be.

PS4 never really talked that much about cloud connection during their launch conference. XBOne on the other hand wouldn't shut up about it.

And to be honest.. I think you're a bit fixated on it as well. I'm sure it's because the idea frightens you as a result of your personal internet circumstances but I don't think it's going to be quite as bad as you think it is. At least not with the PS4... XBOne I can't vouch for at all.
We'll see how "fixated" you are on it when you're a have not. :(

No the truth is that it has to inform my decision-making process, and if the games are only good because they have to draw on cloud power then I have to take that into account. I'm sure at some point in my life I'll have better internet, but I can't make decisions based on what I might have. :\

Offline SinXAzgard21


Online Oreo

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #537 on: July 03, 2013, 12:57:54 AM »
That's a big step down. I wonder if it hurt?

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #538 on: July 03, 2013, 08:17:19 AM »
http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/used-games

As always, Extra Credits comes to the rescue!

Offline Slywyn

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #539 on: July 03, 2013, 09:20:51 AM »
That's a big step down. I wonder if it hurt?

Becoming a CEO and joining the board is a step down? O.o

Offline MoralineTopic starter

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #540 on: July 03, 2013, 09:39:18 AM »
Getting out of Microsoft right now is a very good plan. Their last 3 operating systems have all been massive failures market wise. XBOne looks doomed from the start. The MS Office software that used to be in everyone's office is being replaced with either Apache Open Office or Cloud office products. IE is no longer the dominant browser in the market. They have very few success stories right now. The last several years have been a string of failures for Microsux with only their console being the lone shining star and that is on the precipice at the moment. Soon the stock prices will catch up to it's failure rate.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #541 on: July 03, 2013, 10:16:24 AM »
Getting out of Microsoft right now is a very good plan. Their last 3 operating systems have all been massive failures market wise. XBOne looks doomed from the start. The MS Office software that used to be in everyone's office is being replaced with either Apache Open Office or Cloud office products. IE is no longer the dominant browser in the market. They have very few success stories right now. The last several years have been a string of failures for Microsux with only their console being the lone shining star and that is on the precipice at the moment. Soon the stock prices will catch up to it's failure rate.
Yeah, the only reason I still use Windows at all is because of there are some Games for Windows Games. :\

Offline SinXAzgard21

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #542 on: July 03, 2013, 11:21:23 AM »
Becoming a CEO and joining the board is a step down? O.o

Of a shit company... 

Offline Slywyn

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #543 on: July 03, 2013, 11:27:00 AM »
They seem to be doing well enough though.

Offline Falanor

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #544 on: July 03, 2013, 11:28:07 AM »
Getting out of Microsoft right now is a very good plan. Their last 3 operating systems have all been massive failures market wise. XBOne looks doomed from the start. The MS Office software that used to be in everyone's office is being replaced with either Apache Open Office or Cloud office products. IE is no longer the dominant browser in the market. They have very few success stories right now. The last several years have been a string of failures for Microsux with only their console being the lone shining star and that is on the precipice at the moment. Soon the stock prices will catch up to it's failure rate.

Uh...what?  Windows 7 has, at last check, around a 43% market share.  XP has a 37%.  Both are the number one and number two OS' in the market.  As for open source OS' you're looking at an adoption of around 3%.  As for your assertion on Office, please share your statistical findings.  Most tracking services have Office at around 500-750 million users.

Offline SinXAzgard21

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #545 on: July 03, 2013, 11:29:08 AM »
They seem to be doing well enough though.

Polish a turd and it is still a turd.  They are one of the worst gaming companies out there.

Offline Slywyn

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #546 on: July 03, 2013, 11:30:18 AM »
For the players maybe but as a company I wouldn't say they're doing bad.

Online Doomsday

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #547 on: July 17, 2013, 03:03:23 AM »
I was actually about to post that Koren. The Kinect spies on you, and there is no way you can look around that unless you're in denial about it.

In the same sense that google spies on you, collecting data to tailor their ads to you.

I don't see what problem people have with the 24 hour check-in, it was designed to stop people from installing a disc game onto the hard-drive, going off-line, and selling that game and retaining the ability to play that game forever. By the way, that sentence means that yes, you'd be able to trade games into gamestop; I was at gamestop the other day and joked with them that "I'll be buying the XBOX one, because I hate gamestop and they hate your ass too!" But I was corrected; They told me that their company had actually been working with Microsoft on this new system. Getting rid of re-sellers was never the plan of microsoft; Preventing trade-ins was just fanboy hype. Also, a lot of next-gen games are going to be online only; And even if they're not, almost all of them are going to be better games if you're online.


I don't know much about specifications, here's an article that gets more in depth about it, but they pretty much confirm what I've heard: "In short, while there are small hardware differences between the consoles, they will ultimately have very similar performance characteristics. The PS4, with its one, big block of fast RAM, and bigger GPU, probably has the edge."

Here's another article worth your time. I'm quite excited by the cloud computing capabilities they've been touting, here's the quote that really made me say "Wow, that's pretty nuts."



Microsoft holds sessions during E3 called Xbox 101. During these sessions, a team of Microsoft engineers led by a man named Jeff Henshaw, discuss the benefits of the Xbox One's better Kinect sensor, the ability to run interactive apps alongside live TV and the computational prowess of Microsoft's cloud servers, those same servers Zampella's Titanfall team are using.

Henshaw starts running a demo that shows 30,000 or so asteroids, all of whose positions and movement are culled from real NASA data. The asteroid show up on a big screen in the Xbox 101 demo room. They're all purple.

"Doing all of this computation would require a little over 10 consoles from the last generation," he says. "This is like taking about 10 1/2 Xbox 360s worth of CPU power and cramming it into one elegantly-designed Xbox One. So we are thrilled at what we have been able to do there. Because this type of raw processor horsepower that's mapping the current time and position in space in real time can all be done by a single Xbox One."

He then flips a switch or presses a button or something and about 300,000 more asteroids appear. These are green and all calculated, he says, by the cloud. "What we've done is we've actually invoked CPU resources from the cloud that can instantly be brought online and scaled up and those cloud CPU processes are now feeding about 500,000 updates per second to help us track every single asteroid in real time."

I later ask him if this demo is for real. We're seeing it in the middle of the E3 show, after all, where Internet connections are notoriously dreadful. Yes, it's real, he says, "We are on an Ethernet line with a private line out connected to our data centers." If the plug was pulled, the cloud asteroids would disappear.



In summation: The XBOX One is worth 10.5 XBOX 360's in raw processing power. Cloud computing is capable of making the XBOX One worth 105 XBOX 360's. I realize that they might not be able to achieve that with every game, but even if they only double the processing power, I think that's pretty damn impressive, and with Direct X 11.2 coming out (Which will allow the GPU to use memory from the RAM, which I've been told 8GB is overkill just for running games, leaving plenty for the GPU to take), I think that narrows the specification gap between the two consoles, or perhaps even obliterates it.

Now I'm not trying to put the PS4 down. I think it has a lot of cool features, and even cooler exclusives (especially if The Last of Us 2 ever happens, holy shit!), but I think that the PS4 is unambitious, content with just a hardware upgrade, while Microsoft is really pushing out a lot of nifty console features (and let's face it, stuff like DRM, always online, etc. are things that are going to happen, whether it's this generation or the next. Physical licenses will be going away, I guarantee it). I also am uncomfortable with a lot of the uneducated (not taking any shots at anyone, but can you really argue that the millions of people who went nuts after E3 are wholly coherent on the subject? xbox done more like amirite lmao) hype that's already prepared to bury the XBOX One before it's even out.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2013, 03:35:52 AM by Doomsday »

Offline Chris Brady

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #548 on: July 17, 2013, 06:26:23 AM »
As a Canadian citizen I take exception to any foreign entity having access to my personal information and missives.

But as this article states:  http://business.financialpost.com/2013/07/11/microsoft-nsa-outlook-skype/?__lsa=7dc0-085a

Microsoft (the owner of Skype, which by the way is integrated into every XBox One console) is under legal obligation to forward any and all information using Skype or it's other subsidiary software.

This is illegal, and infringes on my rights.  This is spying.

Offline MoralineTopic starter

Re: Xbox One Vs PS4 - Next Gen gaming
« Reply #549 on: July 17, 2013, 10:38:28 AM »
...

Now I'm not trying to put the PS4 down. I think it has a lot of cool features, and even cooler exclusives (especially if The Last of Us 2 ever happens, holy shit!), but I think that the PS4 is unambitious, content with just a hardware upgrade, while Microsoft is really pushing out a lot of nifty console features (and let's face it, stuff like DRM, always online, etc. are things that are going to happen, whether it's this generation or the next. Physical licenses will be going away, I guarantee it). I also am uncomfortable with a lot of the uneducated (not taking any shots at anyone, but can you really argue that the millions of people who went nuts after E3 are wholly coherent on the subject? xbox done more like amirite lmao) hype that's already prepared to bury the XBOX One before it's even out.
Just going to narrow this down to the final part.

There really isn't much that XBox One is presenting that PS4 hasn't said they are going to do as well. You talked a lot about cloud computing and PS4 has been touting their cloud based resourcing as well. So, I'm not impressed. PS4 has said that their entire old library of games are going to eventually be available online and available to PS4 users for one. There's nothing that Microsoft can do that Sony can't do as well. If MS gets it first, you can guarantee that Sony will have something similar up and running shortly after that (if not before them.)

Now... I'm not that against the "always online" aspect because it doesn't affect me much but it does grate on my nerves a tad. As Inkidu will tell you, it is a big deal to some people. Many of them actually. Will it happen anyways? Sure it will, that doesn't mean people have to like it and it doesn't mean that it has to be accepted in it's current form. If the general public doesn't like it, they'll go with whoever has the model that they like the best. So far, MS is losing in that battle.

Now onto the last part... Apparently you didn't read the posts here. MS is already losing this sales battle. They are losing it badly. Companies like Amazon (the largest online retailer in the world) posts their top sellers. It's easy to look up. For next gen console stuff there is 1 XBox product to every 3-4 Sony ones (depending on the week you check.) Not saying it's going to remain that lopsided but considering that they had the top seller for years now... well it doesn't look good for them.

And last... I can't speak for everyone's coherency on the subject of tech... but that happens to be my line of business. I'm educated in tech, worked in tech, and made a great deal of my money through tech investments. One thing I know is tech. The XBox division made bad decisions, bad presentation, and are headed down a bad path. Even they admit that because they've been changing their mind on a number of those issues already since E3 ended. I don't think making comments about peoples reactions is so wise considering that XBox themselves is admitting that they were wrong. If they can see it then why can't you?

Oh.. and Chris is right. I refuse to have a camera(with mic) in my house that is required to always be connected to my gaming console, required to be online once a day, and always on while I'm gaming. No, thank you. MS can get their jollies by looking at some other girl in her undies. They can stay out of my house. ((Not that I think it'll happen like that.. but if the possibility exists it's a guarantee that someone will use it. *cites recent spying cases*))

I think it boils down to this. What XBox is doing is kinda creepy in it's approach to everything. I don't like creeps. Which is a shame because if you read this thread you'll see that I started as mostly an XBox supporter and was quite excited by the next gen... not so much now.