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Author Topic: Texas GOP in favor of anti-critical thinking, no kindergarden, more  (Read 3404 times)

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Offline Oniya

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Re: Texas GOP in favor of anti-critical thinking, no kindergarden, more
« Reply #25 on: July 01, 2012, 08:59:05 PM »
As far as I'm concerned, the bar is set at 'thinks this platform is nuts.'

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Texas GOP in favor of anti-critical thinking, no kindergarden, more
« Reply #26 on: July 02, 2012, 12:29:47 PM »
As far as I'm concerned, the bar is set at 'thinks this platform is nuts.'

I haven't read it all the way through..each new atrocity has me screaming at the screen. I can't believe that this fits the values that the OLD GOP would have wanted. Education makes it possible to be successful and well informed. I find it interesting how SOME members of the GOP ignore how their 'saints' did things.

Offline OldSchoolGamer

Re: Texas GOP in favor of anti-critical thinking, no kindergarden, more
« Reply #27 on: July 02, 2012, 08:54:46 PM »
I haven't read it all the way through..each new atrocity has me screaming at the screen. I can't believe that this fits the values that the OLD GOP would have wanted. Education makes it possible to be successful and well informed. I find it interesting how SOME members of the GOP ignore how their 'saints' did things.

Understand that, to the GOP, morality is irrelevant.  There's one, and only one, consideration for the GOP in any public policy question: will it make these people richer: http://www.forbes.com/forbes-400/

All other considerations, including whether people live or die, are irrelevant.

Offline Ironwolf85

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Re: Texas GOP in favor of anti-critical thinking, no kindergarden, more
« Reply #28 on: July 02, 2012, 09:54:25 PM »
Gamer... you are possably the most embittered hater of the Republican party I've ever seen. To be honest I don't hate republicans, my father and grandmother are republicans, and my father is one of the smartest men I've ever met.
By these guy's standard, he's a liberal, by anyone else's he's a moderate.
He's in favor of people being able to choose things for themselves instead of government telling them what to do. He doesn't hate rich people, and believes we should look out for the poor and give them a hand up instead of free money.
We both hate the bush tax cuts, not becauce it gave a tax break to the highest income bracket, but because it was a poorly done one.
Like it or not there are always going to be three classes to any civilization from tribal socities, to dictatorships, republics, communist states, and even democracies.
upper class
middle class
lower class

The key is getting upper, middle, and lower, classes to thrive and work togeather, making class mobility easy. Generally the larger the middle class the better off a country is overall.
All three form gears in a functioning socity, and are not evil in and of themselves.

for example there is actual sound thinking in what regan did with the tax cuts for the wealthy, if most wealthy people want to make more money, thus they invest it, and see returns on that investment, in the process it is good for the country as smaller companies see larger investments. Regan's tax cuts worked because those wealthy americans invested in american companies. When bush just said "here's free money!" and expected it to help the economy.
Those tax cuts paid for a boom in both industry and technology in asia, not in america.

Done properly it should have been along the lines of "okay we need to stimulate the economy, we'll give you rich guys a tax break for the next three years if you invest in american industry and technology. We might even extend it if you guys do a good job." note not four years, thus avoiding making canceling the tax breaks the other guy's problem.

The GOP in texas seemes from the overall article to fear change in all forms, political, religious, scientific, and cultural, and that is a dangerious thing, it also makes a country poorer and more miserable in the long run. they are also the GOP of Texas, the reddest state in the Union.

again I don't hate republicans, I don't hate democrats, I hate arogant bastards for whom their way is the only way that should exist. The Far Right and The Far Left. I also hate people who belive shafting the rest of their fellow man is a way to succeed in the long term.

I don't hate rich people for being rich, I hate rich people who believe they are above the law and arogant enough to believe they are so rich that they have no responsibility to either the government who provided them with the oppertounities, or the employees who they've never met yet who worked hard every day to make and sell those products. it's a team effort from rich to poor and everywhere between, all struggling to succeed togeather by making products, profit, and sales, that's not socialisim, that's actually captialsim straight from Wealth of Nations. Whose author warned against abuses like those of The Duch East India Company (he used them as the example of the time.)

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Texas GOP in favor of anti-critical thinking, no kindergarden, more
« Reply #29 on: July 02, 2012, 10:03:47 PM »
Understand that, to the GOP, morality is irrelevant.  There's one, and only one, consideration for the GOP in any public policy question: will it make these people richer: http://www.forbes.com/forbes-400/

All other considerations, including whether people live or die, are irrelevant.

ah.. but the moral conservatives they use to retain control of the GOP do care. So they have to spin things. That is why commercially unprofitable things like gay marriage and abortion are on the table. You can get the moral conservatives to back you with little or no actual interest in what YOU want the party to do. (And since you're rich.. you can get what you need outside the country when the time comes)

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: Texas GOP in favor of anti-critical thinking, no kindergarden, more
« Reply #30 on: July 02, 2012, 11:01:37 PM »
Gamer... you are possably the most embittered hater of the Republican party I've ever seen. To be honest I don't hate republicans, my father and grandmother are republicans, and my father is one of the smartest men I've ever met.


He's not a embittered Republican-hater, more of a mild conspiracy theorist.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Texas GOP in favor of anti-critical thinking, no kindergarden, more
« Reply #31 on: July 03, 2012, 02:28:28 AM »


for example there is actual sound thinking in what regan did with the tax cuts for the wealthy, if most wealthy people want to make more money, thus they invest it, and see returns on that investment, in the process it is good for the country as smaller companies see larger investments. Regan's tax cuts worked because those wealthy americans invested in american companies. When bush just said "here's free money!" and expected it to help the economy.
Those tax cuts paid for a boom in both industry and technology in asia, not in america.

Done properly it should have been along the lines of "okay we need to stimulate the economy, we'll give you rich guys a tax break for the next three years if you invest in american industry and technology. We might even extend it if you guys do a good job." note not four years, thus avoiding making canceling the tax breaks the other guy's problem.

The GOP in texas seemes from the overall article to fear change in all forms, political, religious, scientific, and cultural, and that is a dangerious thing, it also makes a country poorer and more miserable in the long run. they are also the GOP of Texas, the reddest state in the Union.

FYI.. Reagan increased taxes  (including on capital gains) at least 8 times in the first five years of his time in office. He ushered in an impressive amount of deregulation but he was also for 'right sized' government instead of radically downsizing. While he was a major proponent of 'trickle down' he wasn't afraid of taxing the rich.

I find it ironic that a party that once used to have such standing with the unions is now their arch-enemies and are looking to tear down a century of labor reform. Almost every agency that the more radical republican candidates seem set on shutting down are ones that will either 'build an informed public' or 'protect the worker'.

Doing away/downsizing education, the EPA, Department of Labor, Department of Energy, OSHA and other federal watch dogs in ADDITION to muzzling organized labor make it look like big business is trying to roll back a century of business reform/oversight. It's scary when you codsider that TODAY in Texas if Upton Sinclair had written The Jungle, he'd be sued before it could be published. Anyone who trusts business to 'self regulate' needs to look closely at what they did before the creation of the DoL, the FDA, OSHA and the EPA.

All in all, I look at Texas' GOP as a litmus test for what the less openly authoritarian GOP states will do one or two cycles down the line and what the main party will do around two cycles down as well.

The problem today is that the leadership has cemented their control by allying with the extreme moral conservative right. Authoritarians can (and do) lie and manipulate facts to their benefit. What I find ironic is how these people do things extremely (and diametrically) opposed to their state beliefs. I mean.. best example I can think off right off the bat.. Newt Gingrich has divorced what.. 3 wives? At least one deathly ill while doing so.

I know a LOT of moderate republicans like myself who feel.. cast adrift. I wish SOMEONE would wise up and fix things that need fixxing,, but till we break this exterme 'us vs them' outlook that the GOP and extreme left has.. I don't see it happening.


Offline Ironwolf85

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Re: Texas GOP in favor of anti-critical thinking, no kindergarden, more
« Reply #32 on: July 03, 2012, 10:05:20 AM »
Quote
FYI.. Reagan increased taxes  (including on capital gains) at least 8 times in the first five years of his time in office. He ushered in an impressive amount of deregulation but he was also for 'right sized' government instead of radically downsizing. While he was a major proponent of 'trickle down' he wasn't afraid of taxing the rich.


I know, but when I say he increased taxes quite a lot on a lot of things most people look at me with a big ol WHA? on their face.  Especally diehard republicans for whom the man was some sort of saint.

and I agree that Busnesses do not self regulate, their goal is to make money, always has been, capitalisim as premoted by Wealth of Nations is to turn that desire for wealth, services, and goods into a force for the betterment of mankind and the country.

I'm more of a independent who verges on democrat, but that's mostly because the republican party has drifted so far right in my lifetime they just left me behind. I never moved, the party did.

Offline ReijiTabibito

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Re: Texas GOP in favor of anti-critical thinking, no kindergarden, more
« Reply #33 on: July 03, 2012, 02:51:40 PM »
I find it exceedingly ironic that the first purpose for this new proposal that comes to my mind - keeping students from questioning the authority and morality of their parents and other authority figures (IE Christianity in Texas) in order to preserve that way - might very well have the opposite effect intended.  Yes, your mass of dumbed down people might not be as susceptible to conversion to other ways of thinking as a mass of intelligent and educated people.  But...

They aren't going to be as capable of convincing people of their way of thinking as someone who is better educated.

And considering the general atmosphere and likeability that surrounds Christianity these days in public opinion, I wouldn't be surprised in the least if in 50 years there were far fewer Christians in the US as a whole because - A: people die, B: you need people to replace those people, C: Christians educated under this system are going to suuuuuuuuck at constructing arguments, which is part of what critical thinking is about.

@Ironwolf 85: This might be for another topic, but I agree with your statements on capitalism and Adam Smith.  The problem we have today is that that system doesn't work anymore.  Used to work, back in the days of our grandfathers and great-grandfathers (though they had their own problems, not everything was Sky Cake Land), primarily because people got along and weren't massive dicks to each other.  It was what I like to call the Mighty Ducks mentality: You take on one of us, you take on all of us.

There is no mentality like that anymore.  It is 'what can I do for me today,' 'how do we make the most money,' and general other selfishness.

@Callie: It's funny that you mention The Jungle.  Someone asked me the other day about this whole downsizing, EPA-removal, and all that, and about where it was going.  I told them that if it didn't stop, we were going back into The Jungle territory, only worse, because even in the days of Sinclair and the robber barons, those guys believed in doing good works and in the stuff they teach in the Bible.  Andrew Carnegie once donated $7 billion (in modern day terms, in his time it was $350 million) to various good organizations, including the one that eventually built Carnegie Hall in NYC.

Ask the Mitt Romneys of this age to do that.

Hell, I would bet that if you asked them about Carnegie, that they would all say he's a great guy, a natural capitalist, someone worthy of being extolled and followed.

Then tell them some of the things he said, and watch them run.  Like The Gospel of Wealth.

Offline Chris Brady

Re: Texas GOP in favor of anti-critical thinking, no kindergarden, more
« Reply #34 on: July 03, 2012, 04:51:42 PM »
I think the graphic novel V has it right after all.

Right now the people are afraid of their governments.  The governments should be afraid of the people.

Simply because the people have power, power to change things, either by voting or by other means.

Offline Ironwolf85

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Re: Texas GOP in favor of anti-critical thinking, no kindergarden, more
« Reply #35 on: July 03, 2012, 05:07:22 PM »
agreed chris, I think the modern fear of the government has it's roots in uncertanity, not hatred, fear of potental opression is what is driving a lot of people to vote on the right.

Offline kylie

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Re: Texas GOP in favor of anti-critical thinking, no kindergarden, more
« Reply #36 on: July 03, 2012, 05:34:11 PM »
Quote
I find it exceedingly ironic that the first purpose for this new proposal that comes to my mind - keeping students from questioning the authority and morality of their parents and other authority figures (IE Christianity in Texas) in order to preserve that way - might very well have the opposite effect intended.  Yes, your mass of dumbed down people might not be as susceptible to conversion to other ways of thinking as a mass of intelligent and educated people.  But...

They aren't going to be as capable of convincing people of their way of thinking as someone who is better educated.
     Hrmm.  Maybe.  This is assuming that 1) more schooling at the levels in question would really expose the kids to different ideas about how the world could be run and 2) people those kids would talk to, are really receptive to reason and calculation. 

     Regarding point 1...  The far right also tends to launch campaigns about the content and scope of school curricula where kids are in school (not to mention trying to get things like The Ten Commandments or "Support the Troops!" decorated all over the place).  It becomes that much harder for teachers to actually broach the subject of say, inequality and urban blight that goes with trickle-down economics and globalization.  Or so many other things.  So even those who might be able to argue, don't know all that much about the topics.

     Regarding point 2...  I wouldn't underestimate the capacity for some Christian groups to make themselves emotionally appealing.  I might even say they are rather better at appealing to a party atmosphere, than they are at appealing to logic.  They have designated approved concerts, sponsored community hall events, youth groups, camps, after school programs, what have you.  But what really sticks in my mind...  You can get into arguments and find that people keep repeating the same banal words -- but they are smiling blissfully about how "obvious" and "easy" their approach must be.  They will say oh, "Isn't it hard to have so many questions?" or repeat the "loving God" thing over and over. 

     You can also walk into a Pentacostal church and find an hour of dancing and singing quite joyfully, at least before the fire and brimstone sermon part.  I'm not sure it's all about logical policy here.  These people are getting a community where all they have to do is go through the ritual and step around a few "problem" issues, and presto, major social network with money and acceptance.  And for many of them, every Sunday's a party and everything will be hunky dory and even God says so.  There's some awful happy Kool-Aid there.
     

Offline Will

Re: Texas GOP in favor of anti-critical thinking, no kindergarden, more
« Reply #37 on: July 03, 2012, 05:39:24 PM »
I find it exceedingly ironic that the first purpose for this new proposal that comes to my mind - keeping students from questioning the authority and morality of their parents and other authority figures (IE Christianity in Texas) in order to preserve that way - might very well have the opposite effect intended.  Yes, your mass of dumbed down people might not be as susceptible to conversion to other ways of thinking as a mass of intelligent and educated people.  But...

They aren't going to be as capable of convincing people of their way of thinking as someone who is better educated.

And considering the general atmosphere and likeability that surrounds Christianity these days in public opinion, I wouldn't be surprised in the least if in 50 years there were far fewer Christians in the US as a whole because - A: people die, B: you need people to replace those people, C: Christians educated under this system are going to suuuuuuuuck at constructing arguments, which is part of what critical thinking is about.

The problem I see with that expectation is that those Christians will be having children.  And children don't need well-reasoned arguments to accept what their parents teach them.  I could see there being a decrease, but not some drastic drop-off.

Offline ReijiTabibito

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Re: Texas GOP in favor of anti-critical thinking, no kindergarden, more
« Reply #38 on: July 03, 2012, 05:50:53 PM »
     Regarding point 1...  The far right also tends to launch campaigns about the content and scope of school curricula where kids are in school (not to mention trying to get things like The Ten Commandments or "Support the Troops!" decorated all over the place).  It becomes that much harder for teachers to actually broach the subject of say, inequality and urban blight that goes with trickle-down economics and globalization.  Or so many other things.  So even those who might be able to argue, don't know all that much about the topics.

And the supreme irony of this is that these are supposed to be the things that future Christians are learning about.  How can they demonstrate charity and the positive principles they represent if they don't know about all the things that are wrong with the world?

     Regarding point 2...  I wouldn't underestimate the capacity for some Christian groups to make themselves emotionally appealing.  I might even say they are rather better at appealing to a party atmosphere, than they are at appealing to logic.  They have designated approved concerts, sponsored community hall events, youth groups, camps, after school programs, what have you.  But what really sticks in my mind...  You can get into arguments and find that people keep repeating the same banal words -- but they are smiling blissfully about how "obvious" and "easy" their approach must be.  They will say oh, "Isn't it hard to have so many questions?" or repeat the "loving God" thing over and over. 

Reliance on appeal to emotion is a dangerous tactic.  People who have studied the Bible can tell you that it says in more than one place that the heart of a man is fickle, and prone to inconstancy.  That's why there's a big push in the Christian community not only to remove things like Darwin from the school books, but replace them with something that is more logic based than "God did it."  Reliance on emotion is not the most surefire way to convert people and then hold onto them.  Look at (Sorry folks) 9/11.  Congress was out on the steps singing "God Bless America," but did it last?  No sir, no it did not.  Logic, reason, and evidence are the surest ways.

     You can also walk into a Pentacostal church and find an hour of dancing and singing quite joyfully, at least before the fire and brimstone sermon part.  I'm not sure it's all about logical policy here.  These people are getting a community where all they have to do is go through the ritual and step around a few "problem" issues, and presto, major social network with money and acceptance.  And for many of them, every Sunday's a party and everything will be hunky dory and even God says so.  There's some awful happy Kool-Aid there. 

Emphases added mine. 

Except it's wrong.  Any Christian group anywhere that tells you that bold emphasized part above is drinking the magic Kool-Aid.  Jesus says quite explicitly in the Bible that anyone who chooses to be a Christian is going to have a rough time of it, because the world is run by the Devil, who can't stand Christians.  Christians will have suffering aplenty for their faith, because of the choice they made.

As for the underlined part...anyone who is just going through the motions and looking for the social and financial hookup isn't really an adherent of the belief, since all they're interested in is the benefits.  This goes for any religion, not just Christianity.

Offline kylie

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Re: Texas GOP in favor of anti-critical thinking, no kindergarden, more
« Reply #39 on: July 03, 2012, 06:16:43 PM »
Quote from: ReijiTabibito
And the supreme irony of this is that these are supposed to be the things that future Christians are learning about.  How can they demonstrate charity and the positive principles they represent if they don't know about all the things that are wrong with the world?
     Well, I tend to agree.  But some might say, because the wrongs are mostly due to a society being punished for not being "loyal" or "proper" or "God-fearing" enough on those few issues they want to dig in about.

Quote
Reliance on appeal to emotion is a dangerous tactic.  People who have studied the Bible can tell you that it says in more than one place that the heart of a man is fickle, and prone to inconstancy.  That's why there's a big push in the Christian community not only to remove things like Darwin from the school books, but replace them with something that is more logic based than "God did it."  Reliance on emotion is not the most surefire way to convert people and then hold onto them.
    This is interesting, and maybe true as far as the education/quasi-science approach goes.  I still think it's a significant part of the game.  There is a certain mixing, though.  I often get the impression the Christian right is trying to sell their way as natural - easy - obvious - simple.  Which can have a strange resonance with long-winded lists of examples they prefer from archaeology, social surveys, etc. or just the concept of Occam's razor.  In short, it can also feel very neat and tidy to slash about wildly with some pseudoscience, without checking oneself.  After all, checking/qualifications/disclaimers all could be signs of unnecessary complexity (you know, like creation in how many years instead of seven days -- totally excessive and probably in bad faith to even contemplate).  Feels so much sweeter to go with the easy, or scientifically purely "parsimonious" answer! 

Quote
Jesus says quite explicitly in the Bible that anyone who chooses to be a Christian is going to have a rough time of it, because the world is run by the Devil, who can't stand Christians.  Christians will have suffering aplenty for their faith, because of the choice they made.
     Lots of people in the Bible say lots of different things (each!), depending on the case of the moment.  It's not hard to pick a quote to support one tack or another that way.  Anyway...  If they do stay clear of the "bad things" and follow party line, then they can also argue they are suffering.  Whether it's their "test of faith" or a result of others actually failing to treat them nicely, or simply failing to give them more credit and status in life, it can all be seen as suffering.

Quote
As for the underlined part...anyone who is just going through the motions and looking for the social and financial hookup isn't really an adherent of the belief, since all they're interested in is the benefits.  This goes for any religion, not just Christianity.
     "The belief..."  I have no idea, really.  Were the verses of Moses or David or Solomon any less real to the Jews, to the extent they were historically accurate, than the chats of Jesus or whoever wrote for him during Roman times?  Are contemporary Christians required to pick this verse for one situation and that for another?  Whoever could decide such things? 

     Besides...  It's quite feasible for people to be very interested in both the benefits and the fire and brimstone.  Some people are very good at maintaining a sweet balance between "My community is so wonderful" and "Ohh, and we really shouldn't have those un-Godly things in our society now."  Or, you get people who don't really believe the fire and brimstone but they want/need a supportive community enough, that they'll stick around in the pews anyway. 

Offline ReijiTabibito

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Re: Texas GOP in favor of anti-critical thinking, no kindergarden, more
« Reply #40 on: July 03, 2012, 06:40:29 PM »
     Well, I tend to agree.  But some might say, because the wrongs are mostly due to a society being punished for not being "loyal" or "proper" or "God-fearing" enough on those few issues they want to dig in about.

Even if society were being the things that they wanted, that wouldn't end all suffering and evil everywhere.  America being God-fearing enough for even the most zealous adherent will not negate the evil happening in Africa, or Southeast Asia, or even within the nation itself.  Evil is inherent in the character of man, and therefore as long as our world continues to exist, in which man is separated from God, evil will go on.

Christians shouldn't simply focus upon abortion or homosexual marriage as issues.  They need to focus on more than just the hotbuttons to prove that they're the real deal and not just a bunch of religious egomaniacs.


    This is interesting, and maybe true as far as the education/quasi-science approach goes.  I still think it's a significant part of the game.  There is a certain mixing, though.  I often get the impression the Christian right is trying to sell their way as natural - easy - obvious - simple.  Which can have a strange resonance with long-winded lists of examples they prefer from archaeology, social surveys, etc. or just the concept of Occam's razor.  In short, it can also feel very neat and tidy to slash about wildly with some pseudoscience, without checking oneself.  After all, checking/qualifications/disclaimers all could be signs of unnecessary complexity (you know, like creation in how many years instead of seven days -- totally excessive and probably in bad faith to even contemplate).  Feels so much sweeter to go with the easy, or scientifically purely "parsimonious" answer! 

They are trying to sell their way of life as the simple and obvious way, by doing two things.  One is debunking everything else by making it seem so complicated and unlikely that only an idiot would choose something so crazy.  Two is by doing what everyone else is doing these days - targeting the kids.  You get the kids when they're young, and you have a far better chance of holding onto them for life.

But it doesn't work.  One is almost impossible, since what is more unlikely in today's scientific world than something spontaneously generating everything in the universe?  And studies have shown that kids are leaving the church at a fairly good rate primarily because the church isn't preparing them to answer the tough questions the world poses to them today.

     Lots of people in the Bible say lots of different things (each!), depending on the case of the moment.  It's not hard to pick a quote to support one tack or another that way.  Anyway...  If they do stay clear of the "bad things" and follow party line, then they can also argue they are suffering.  Whether it's their "test of faith" or a result of others actually failing to treat them nicely, or simply failing to give them more credit and status in life, it can all be seen as suffering.

Indeed.  To quote Jon Stewart: "It is air tighter than an otter's anus."

     Besides...  It's quite feasible for people to be very interested in both the benefits and the fire and brimstone.  Some people are very good at maintaining a sweet balance between "My community is so wonderful" and "Ohh, and we really shouldn't have those un-Godly things in our society now."  Or, you get people who don't really believe the fire and brimstone but they want/need a supportive community enough, that they'll stick around in the pews anyway.

It is.  The problem with that is unless the person sitting in the pew goes out and actually does something about it, then they're a couch potato believer.  I don't know of anyone in the Christian community who would disagree with other Christians being wonderful people, and that the source of many of America's troubles is because society has abandoned God.  But for a lot of people I know, that's their limit.  They'll go, sit in church, sing songs, listen to sermons, complain about all the evil that's going on...but when Sunday ends and the work week begins, they aren't out there trying to change things.  In the words of my pastor growing up: "They're shallow, interested only in the fire insurance, and only pay their premiums on Sunday."

Offline Ironwolf85

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Re: Texas GOP in favor of anti-critical thinking, no kindergarden, more
« Reply #41 on: July 03, 2012, 07:13:34 PM »
*raises hand* I'm a christian and

Quote
"They're shallow, interested only in the fire insurance, and only pay their premiums on Sunday."
^
I agree with that.
My church is pretty darn good, and Minister Malcom is also a math and history teacher in grade school, he supports the evoloutionary view and darwinisim, and teaches in church as well as preaches.

There are a lot of good and honest christians who are just trying to make the world a better place, and follow the teachins of christ, which basicly come down to "love & forgive one another, and love god with all your heart" problem is then there's those "God Hates Fags" people like the westburough baptrists *cringe* they are NOT the majority, but they are certanly the loudest and most hypocritical.

Is it just me or every time someone starts spewing hate based on the bible it's always based on a half assed version of the Old Testament, some small quote of scripture while ignoring the rest (kinda how islamic radicals highlight all the conflict stuff, when Jihad actually means "internal struggle" as in "trying to understand" not "holy war, kill infidels, burn, bucher, kill, die"), or some doomsayer trying to interpret revelations with his own skewed views.

Offline Oniya

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Re: Texas GOP in favor of anti-critical thinking, no kindergarden, more
« Reply #42 on: July 03, 2012, 08:57:19 PM »
There are a lot of good and honest christians who are just trying to make the world a better place, and follow the teachins of christ, which basicly come down to "love & forgive one another, and love god with all your heart" problem is then there's those "God Hates Fags" people like the westburough baptrists *cringe* they are NOT the majority, but they are certanly the loudest and most hypocritical.

Is it just me or every time someone starts spewing hate based on the bible it's always based on a half assed version of the Old Testament, some small quote of scripture while ignoring the rest (kinda how islamic radicals highlight all the conflict stuff, when Jihad actually means "internal struggle" as in "trying to understand" not "holy war, kill infidels, burn, bucher, kill, die"), or some doomsayer trying to interpret revelations with his own skewed views.

For the record, while I'm not a Christian, I don't associate the Westboros (in my eyes, they've lost the claim to calling themselves either 'Baptists' or a 'Church') with any genuine expression of Christianity.  And yes, the haters seem to like the OT, probably because it's where most of the hellfire and brimstone comes in (instead of that pesky 'Love thy neighbor as thyself', and 'Love the Lord with all your heart, all your mind, and all your soul) - that and Revelations (End of Days... good times, good times!), and some of the Pauline Epistles (Sorry, the man had some issues - I think he was trying too hard.)

Since you brought up the proper definition of jihad (which I am adding to the StoreHouse), I'm going to drop another interesting etymology:  Satan comes from 'satanus', which means 'adversary', in the sense of 'opposing counsel.'  That's right, the Devil is actually more of a devil's advocate.

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Re: Texas GOP in favor of anti-critical thinking, no kindergarden, more
« Reply #43 on: July 03, 2012, 09:18:29 PM »
I also get pissed as satanists, i'v emet a few, and they are more "cuz it's like cool to be against the establishment." without knowing the theology and ideals behind what they are doing.
to me christ was the ultimate rebel, he preached love, peace, and faith in both your fellow man and a higher power, and the religious authorities of the time had him nailed to a cross for it.

I don't believe that "jews iz evil cuz they killed christ" that stuff's anti-semitic and moronic. it's more a story of authorities striking out of fear at someone who chose to preach non-voilence and love, because they feared that message, even when the son of god himself was espousing it.
not only did they kill him, three days later he got back up, and kinda said to his followers "here is proof of god, and proof of his love for you, me, and mankind." he didn't go on some holy vengence spree, smiting bad people, and tossing them into hell.

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Re: Texas GOP in favor of anti-critical thinking, no kindergarden, more
« Reply #44 on: July 03, 2012, 09:27:45 PM »
I also get pissed as satanists, i'v emet a few, and they are more "cuz it's like cool to be against the establishment." without knowing the theology and ideals behind what they are doing.
to me christ was the ultimate rebel, he preached love, peace, and faith in both your fellow man and a higher power, and the religious authorities of the time had him nailed to a cross for it.

I don't believe that "jews iz evil cuz they killed christ" that stuff's anti-semitic and moronic. it's more a story of authorities striking out of fear at someone who chose to preach non-voilence and love, because they feared that message, even when the son of god himself was espousing it.
not only did they kill him, three days later he got back up, and kinda said to his followers "here is proof of god, and proof of his love for you, me, and mankind." he didn't go on some holy vengence spree, smiting bad people, and tossing them into hell.

So with you on so many of these points. 

Offline Pumpkin Seeds

Re: Texas GOP in favor of anti-critical thinking, no kindergarden, more
« Reply #45 on: July 03, 2012, 09:38:07 PM »

Since you brought up the proper definition of jihad (which I am adding to the StoreHouse), I'm going to drop another interesting etymology:  Satan comes from 'satanus', which means 'adversary', in the sense of 'opposing counsel.'  That's right, the Devil is actually more of a devil's advocate.

It's a loss of translation that equates to alot of misunderstanding about the Devil's role.  The Book of Job, I believe, has one of the best examples of the Devil's role.  He questions if a man can truly be pious when he has his blessings given to him.

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Re: Texas GOP in favor of anti-critical thinking, no kindergarden, more
« Reply #46 on: July 04, 2012, 11:20:02 AM »
So with you on so many of these points.

thanks Oniya, nice to hear that.