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Author Topic: City of Heroes/Villains (Mutant's & Masterminds 2nd Ed)  (Read 6112 times)

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Offline Schwarzepard

Re: City of Heroes/Villains (Mutant's & Masterminds 2nd Ed)
« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2008, 12:53:03 AM »
Sounds good!

Offline JadeCore

Re: City of Heroes/Villains (Mutant's & Masterminds 2nd Ed)
« Reply #26 on: April 24, 2008, 03:54:16 AM »
http://cityofheroes.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page

Here's a little more backstory and setting info based more off what I remember than what's in that link...

The start of the superheroic age basically began back in the early century with 'pulp comic' style vigilantes - basically normal people with gadgets, special training, or what have you. There were few real organizations, hero or villain. Statesman/Marcus Cole was one of the original heroes as was Lord Recluse (or at least, the two were operating back then as adventurers).

The emergence of superpowers was probably tied or at least timed with the opening of Pandora's Box - when Statesman and Lord Recluse opened the box, they received their powers and released... well, lots of stuff! Functionally, this was equal to the Golden and Silver Age of Comics and early organizations were formed or would have its roots here (like the Midnight Club). Likewise, many current heroes or their predecessors (like Manticore) would also begin operation at this time.

The Modern Age begins with the discovery of dimensional portals and Portal Corp. It was the portals that would cause (and allow) the Rikti to attack Earth and destroy most existing superheroes and organizations. The Surviving Eight (Statesman, Manticore, Sister Psyche, Positron, Back Alley Brawler, and a few others) would be the only older generation of heroes to survive. They would also serve as the backbone for the new incarnation of the Freedom Phalanx.

The Rikti War would end (or at least, dwindle) when Omega Team (composed of a handful of very tough heroes lead by Hero1, Great Britains premier hero) carried a nuke through one of the Rikti Portals and detonated such as to destroy the ability of the Rikti to portal in reinforcements. As this was a suicide mission, Alpha Team (composed of most of the remaining superheroic forces, lead by Statesman) provided a distraction while Omega Team did their thing - both teams took heavy losses with Omega Team lost completely (even if they survived, they wouldn't have been able to get back through a portal). In honor of Omega Team's sacrifice, heroes are not allowed to wear capes until they have earned the right.

The aftermath of the war saw the rise of Vanguard, dedicated to the control and security of Rikti and portal technology. Longbow came in to existence a few months after, secretly backed by Manticore to do what he felt the Freedom Phalanx would or could not.

Hero Corps would gain a lot of influence - while existing previously, with the shortage of superheroes and the remains of both Rikti and villains looking to get some in the power vacuum, they became a much needed organization, if a little mercenary.

The War Walls subdivided Paragon City into sections. Between and outside them were either unrecovered ruins of the city or simply the outside world.  They had been erected by the Rikti to cordon off defenders.

Superheroes are required to register with the city in order to operate and generally will work under the auspice of an appropriate department (MAGI for magic-based heroes for instance); this is part of a law (don't remember the name) to allow (rather than restrict) heroes to operate interstate and with less red tape as well as limited ability to work abroad. Revealing of secret identities is not required through such information is required to be given to the supervising heroic organization. This is essentially the only regulation that superheroes have - by registering, they are basically granted federal rights as law enforcers as well as special forces (to deal with things like Hamidon) with the capability to do most anything required within the US (along with receiving benefits like free medical care). They work in tandem with the police (both normal and superpowered police forces). Other major cities and countries may operate differently, but most will probably have at least similar environments (War Walls, etc). Within Paragon, there remains Rikti forces in the sewer system, cavern network, and what have you, along with other villainous groups as well as various sections of the city that are still outright dangerous and designated as Security zones.

Superheroes and police act pretty co-operatively and share an amicable relationship; the police provide manpower that superheroes usually do not have and support or lead superheroes as needed. Police in Paragon are a bit more military than modern day ones mostly because of the still dangerous situation - they provide security at security checkpoints, take on the everyday superpowered situations when heroes aren't around (and help when they are) via training, super suits, robots and superheroes who are actual law enforcement (such as Coyote), and what not.

The Rogue Isles is the polar opposite of Paragon. It's ruled by Lord Recluse and the Arachnos organization. It is a sovereign nation recognized by the UN though as it is composed of entirely villains and criminals, it's a reluctant recognition. Recluse doesn't care what goes on and anyone may come and go freely (which means it's a good place for nations to do... less than legal business, likely one of many factors that allow the Rogue Isles to exist within the UN)... so long as it doesn't interfere with Arachnos business. Though that doesn't mean that Arachnos doesn't in-fight (something Recluse encourages as he believes in survival of the fittest both in Arachnos and on the Isles). The various Isles are 'governed' by high ranking Arachnos leaders - Black Scorpion, Ghost Widow, Captain Mako, Scirrocco, and one other person. Any other rules are enforced only by the person making them though there are many not working for Arachnos that hold considerable power so those that don't respect the pecking order (or aren't powerful enough to defy it) generally don't last too long while those that work within the rules generally are successful.

Since the Isles are recognized by the UN and technically they haven't done anything wrong (Arachnos isn't the one that does most of the illegal stuff on the isles and they do operate a security force to 'police' the place), the Isles is basically at peace (technically speaking) with everyone. However, Arachnos nevertheless has operations in Paragon and elsewhere and likewise, Statesman leads an unofficial 'war' in the Isles along with Longbow.

Lastly, there's also Pocket D (not sure if ZK will include this). It's basically a pocket dimension run by the DJ. Within the boundaries of Pocket D, the DJ is God. What he says, is. Which means it's neutral ground with no fighting as it's first rule - it's common to see say... an Arachnos Widow talking to a Freakshow. The pocket dimension doesn't exist in any one spot - the DJ can link any door in the 'real' world to any entrance in Pocket D and usually changes them as desired or needed. He really has no enemies save for a portal hopping Redcap. It's also home to an alternate dimensional version or the spirit of (it's not clear) of War Witch.

Phew... there's a lot of smaller details too that are worth mentioning but that's another story.

Edit: Oh, one origin specific detail is that all magic-users can do magic from having the blood of the Mu civilization. Thus, all magic users either need to be descended from them, come from somewhere off-Earth, possess a Mu artifact, or gain their innate magical powers via some other event (gift from a god or what not).
« Last Edit: April 24, 2008, 04:28:09 AM by Sagittary »

Offline ZKTopic starter

Re: City of Heroes/Villains (Mutant's & Masterminds 2nd Ed)
« Reply #27 on: April 24, 2008, 11:09:45 AM »
While Pocket D is essential to the MMO for a neutral grounds and so on, it isn't for the game I'm hosting as all players are Heroes.

Offline Dingo

Re: City of Heroes/Villains (Mutant's & Masterminds 2nd Ed)
« Reply #28 on: April 24, 2008, 01:41:55 PM »
I am thinking of doing a fairly typical inventor / "battlesuit" super. But with a twist that you don't see so often. He won't be a tank battlesuit, but a an agility / speed fighter, getting up close and personal with razorsharp lethal claws from his "suit".

Exact details I still need to make up, but one I can mention already, his suit is organic in nature.


Offline WyzardWhately

Re: City of Heroes/Villains (Mutant's & Masterminds 2nd Ed)
« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2008, 02:28:28 PM »
I think I'd be most likely to slightly revise my concept, posted above, for Hellhound.  Would you like us to start tossing character sheets up here, or would you prefer to do some more planning, ZK?

Offline Spider

Re: City of Heroes/Villains (Mutant's & Masterminds 2nd Ed)
« Reply #30 on: April 24, 2008, 02:50:12 PM »
I got a spatial controller/ teleporter put in

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Re: City of Heroes/Villains (Mutant's & Masterminds 2nd Ed)
« Reply #31 on: April 24, 2008, 02:55:44 PM »
ZK, did you get my PM about my character background? There any issues with that?

Offline ZKTopic starter

Re: City of Heroes/Villains (Mutant's & Masterminds 2nd Ed)
« Reply #32 on: April 24, 2008, 03:25:44 PM »
I'll possibly be starting to take character sheets and game start next week on Friday. So you have plenty of time to think about it.

And, people who end up being problem players, tend to get weeded out themselves (aka, non-cooperative characters and purely "should have been a villain" super heroes will be dealt with accordingly)

Offline Dingo

Re: City of Heroes/Villains (Mutant's & Masterminds 2nd Ed)
« Reply #33 on: April 25, 2008, 02:06:51 AM »
Are we supposed to know eachother ? Or are we strangers to eachother ?

and actually I think we may need some rough archetypes covering our bases. So I might change my crazy doc to something else, depending on what is needed. Getting up close and personal is all nice, but when there's already several doing it, it is not required.

I think the rough archetypes for a super games are the same as they are mentioned in the CoH stuff:

Blaster, Tanker, Stalker, Defender, Dominator with the stereotypical roles being:

Blaster: Ranged attacker with usually a glass chin. X-Men reference: Cyclops
Tanker: A character who can take huge ammounts of punishment and is nasty enough not to be ignored. X-Men reference: Collossus
Stalker: Up close and personal damage dealer, often combined with stealth or mobility powers. X-Men reference: Nightcrawler
Defender: Powers which benefit the group as a whole, one way or another. X-Men reference: Beast
Dominator: His powers affect the enemy's ability more than they affect the group. X-Men reference: Storm.

Now my references may not all be correct (as I haven't played CoH), and I have certain preferences for characters. Also things aren't as black and white as described.

Offline JadeCore

Re: City of Heroes/Villains (Mutant's & Masterminds 2nd Ed)
« Reply #34 on: April 25, 2008, 02:53:45 AM »
You're mixing up the villain and hero archtypes but basically you have it right. As far as the MMO is concerned, villains tend to be more generalists/hybrids with greater damage while heroes are more specialized with better defenses - the idea being that villains need/want to do a lot because they can rarely work well with others while heroes are capable of relying on people to help them when needed. Which isn't to say there isn't overlap that the MMO doesn't cover yet. And of course the MMO has to be balanced for gameplay so most comic characters will probably end up a mix of archetypes. Though purely a gameplay mechanic, I've included information on the archetype special powers to give you an small idea of what the COH/COV developers envisioned for the characters.

COH Archetypes

Tanker: Very tough characters who can take a lot of damage and fight close range; these people are known first for their durability and then their other abilities. The Hulk for instance. In the MMO, they have the special archetype ability, Gauntlet, which means their attacks generate more attention, both from their main target and the people around that target.
Scrapper: Close combat specialists; while not as tough as tankers, they're 'better' combatants in that they do more damage. This may mean pure power, disabling abilities and reducing opponents capabilities, or what not. Wolverine or Spider-man. Their special abilities is a greater chance at doing critical damage.
Controller: Manipulators of the battlefield. These are the types that have a little of everything - they can be controllers of elements, masters of the mind, or what not. They usually don't directly attack someone but more often do something which then harms or hinders someone. Storm or Professor X. They have the special archetype ability, Containment, which means they do more damage to someone that been affected by a status ability (dazed, stunned, slept, held, etc).
Defender: Versatile characters focused on a little of everything; they have a little ranged, a little manipulation, and what not. They tend to have more direct manipulation abilities and supportive abilities. The people a team looks to to hold them up. Hawkeye or Ironman. Their special ability is Vigilance which gives a discount on their power cost as their teams health decreases.
Blaster: Ranged combatants. Not the toughest character in the roster but the ones that are best at ranged attacks. Cyclops, Iceman, Human Torch. Their archetype ability is Defiance which increases the damage they do the lower their health is.

COV Archetypes

Brute: The analog to the Tank. Usually less 'tough' (though that's a relative term,), they focus more on destructive brute force. Their special ability is Fury - the longer a fight lasts/the longer a brute is actively fighting something, the more damage they do; their power begins relatively low compared to other melee types, but ramps up over the fight.
Stalker: Stealthy characters that focus on sneak attacks and taking people out quickly. Their special ability are various Assassin Strikes - special critical attacks they can do but only when hidden. Similar to Scrappers though focused more on hit and run.
Dominator: The analog to a controller; like most villains though they focus more on doing damage. Their special ability is Domination; it requires the dominator to build up a charge which, when activated, gives them a temporary boost to their abilities (their powers have double the effect and they regain their endurance when first activated).
Corruptor: A cross between Defenders and Blasters; while they have some supportive abilities, those abilities are mostly means to help themselves beat people up that may sometimes help their allies. Their special ability is Scourge which lets them do more damage as their opponents health drops.
Mastermind: Whereas other archetypes have powers, the Mastermind has minions. They may have powers of their own but usually not as much as others and usually those are designed to assist and support their minions (and their allies). They usually are poor fighters (by comic boot standards) or their fighting ability is secondary to their manipulations and the abilities of their proxies. Their special ability is Hemogamy which grants their minions a bonus to damage and accuracy.

On an aside, I wouldn't worry too too much about overlapping archetypes as the story can be changed to fit the capabilities of the team. The Birds of Prey for instance are basically all melee combatants. Of course, I would worry about having too many similar powers and power archetypes for the sake of giving everyone something to do unless everyone went with that archetype. Having three characters, all of who are gadget-based heroes in supersuits along with three others who have varied powers kinda means someone's redundant unless everyone is gadget-based (and in a super suit). Or two people with darkness-based powers that can do 'anything' or two archers. That sorta stuff.

That and also making sure everyone is roughly within the same power level. The JLA is all well and good but I imagine it's harder to make a game (that is in this case, a story with players) where, on one hand, you have someone that can level a city block and on the other hand, you have someone that can barely break a cinder block, without resorting to sometimes arbitrary devices like everyone having to split up to do their own special thing or special weaknesses or what have you. If everyone is roughly equal in power (whether this means money, superpowers, whatever), it means there's less worry about one character using their special power to negate an obstacle ("An army between us and the Cosmic Dohickey? Okay, I use my Quantum Eraser ability to write them out of existence. Now pucker up, sugar, and let's get to naked time!") or being left out ("Okay, everyone will fly and try to take out one missile salvo each. What where you're shooting your energy blasts or dropping the missiles 'cause we're over a major city. Um... Street Vigilante Man... you... um... stay here and guard the plane from any patrolling guards we didn't knock unconscious or tie up on the way here. And no naked time with the plane's robotic avatar.")
« Last Edit: April 25, 2008, 03:02:45 AM by Sagittary »

Offline Dingo

Re: City of Heroes/Villains (Mutant's & Masterminds 2nd Ed)
« Reply #35 on: April 25, 2008, 03:06:05 AM »
I have decided to go look for a gamecard somewhere in my vacation, as I do not have a credit card or a way to use paypal and I need to pay it cash somewhere.

And of course the game themselves, because I have been looking at the game for a long time and it truly sounds interesting too. I have one question though, and perhaps one of you can anwser, how long are characters saved should I not pay for a few months ?

Offline JadeCore

Re: City of Heroes/Villains (Mutant's & Masterminds 2nd Ed)
« Reply #36 on: April 25, 2008, 04:50:36 AM »
They are saved unless/until otherwise stated - as far as I know, they've only wiped characters once for a handful of months, primarily to free up names on characters that people weren't using (ie characters older than 6 months that hadn't been used, characters under level 2, characters that had never been played, etc). As storage is cheap, there's usually very little problem with a company holding on to them. This is even considering that COH/COV gives you a ridiculously large number of character slots (32 or 36 per server, with various options for more... there are about 12 servers, give or take).

You can probably find a game card at a game store like GameStop or at a general electronic store like Best Buy. Note that NCsoft time cards are non-game specific - though branded as COV/COH, Lineage, etc, you can actually use any of those for any of their games. As for the games themselves, you'll probably be able to find it at a Best Buy (it's probably too old for a specialized store like GameStop to carry outside of a copy or two). Note that a copy of the game comes with 30 days of game time. Oh, and also note that you can download the client from NCsoft directly - to play, you really only need the time card (no CD Key required as it's an online game so it just checks your account).

Alternatively, and this is dependent on a lot of stuff, I know someone that use to work for a COH fansite and still has a bunch of stuff they never got around to giving away before the site changed, among which includes copies of the game. Being the ethical sort, he never ended up doing anything with them afterwords - I could ask him about them to see what he's done with them and if he would give a copy to you.

On a side note, if you've played other MMOs before, it's best to kick habits learned from them as COV/COH tends to draw in different playstyles. Stories and backstories tend to be emphasized much more so taking the time to read or pay attention to stuff is important. There's little in way of 'endgame' and 'raids' as the intent at this point is exploring the journey (it's a rare MMO where the playerbase actually enjoys and plays multiple characters of multiple level ranges). You don't often need a 'perfect' group of characters - while a group of Tankers may not be the most damaging or versatile group around, they are equally effective, abit slower and more durable. Similar, a lot of the systems in the game are designed to appeal more to aesthetics rather than pure gameplay and other systems tend to take a cue from that - most of the various customization systems don't affect anything other than appearance but there are numerous ways to get extra costume goodies - so enjoy the fluff. The developers have also made attempts to reward players in ways other than 'phat loot' - many of the holiday or special events or special missions usually give out badges, costume options, extra costume slots, special inspirations or temporary powers. And the developers also have a sense of humour as well as interest in the community/setting - whether it's Coyote or the badge titled Around the Bendis or some of the special rewards being silly homages like a Rock (Yes, you can get a rock temporary power just like Charlie Brown).

I talk to much. >_>
« Last Edit: April 25, 2008, 05:09:38 AM by Sagittary »

Offline WyzardWhately

Re: City of Heroes/Villains (Mutant's & Masterminds 2nd Ed)
« Reply #37 on: April 26, 2008, 05:22:35 PM »
Thanks for the discussion of character archetypes, it's always good to have a common frame of reference.  I think the most likely translation problem, if we're going to run into any at all, is that Impervious toughness is just too good.  But maybe that won't be an issue.

In any case, I suppose the character I'm most likely going to build will fit vaguely into the stalker/scrapper type of role.

Offline JadeCore

Re: City of Heroes/Villains (Mutant's & Masterminds 2nd Ed)
« Reply #38 on: April 26, 2008, 07:59:24 PM »
Thanks for the discussion of character archetypes, it's always good to have a common frame of reference.  I think the most likely translation problem, if we're going to run into any at all, is that Impervious toughness is just too good.  But maybe that won't be an issue.

In any case, I suppose the character I'm most likely going to build will fit vaguely into the stalker/scrapper type of role.

The MMO balances out tankers toughness by ensuring that every type of tanker (or any other power set for the matter) has a weakness, drawback, or some other sort of cost associated with it along with other particulars and quirks of the set and a special Oh Poop! tier 9 power (tankers and scrappers usually get some sort of Oh Poop! defensive/offensive super-boost ability that fatigues them afterwards while blasters get a Oh Poop! super-attack).

Similarly, the MMO also divides protection into a variety of catagories: positional defense (ability to avoid melee, ranged, or area attacks), damage defense (ability to avoid fire, energy, ice, etc type attacks), and damage resistance (ability to negate damage from fire, ice, etc). Defensive powers that toggle on/off also can be disabled if the character is affected by some status effects (stunned, dazed, slept, etc), cost endurance while toggled on, and (like many powers) usually have a cooldown time before it can be re-activated (anywhere from a few seconds to several minutes for powerful Oh Poop! abilities). Likewise, no set can ever be completely invulnerable to damage even damage it specializes in, not even through the use of multiple powers (personal or from allies).

Example using some of the Tankers powersets

Dark Armor: Not in the game for tankers yet, but based off the scrapper set, DA gives up general protection for utility powers and hindering foes. One of the few sets that offers really good negative energy and good psionic protection but giving up energy and knockback protection. Many of it's powers are based off the number of enemies around them - draining endurance from foes and giving it to themselves, an aura of fear, etc. These guys don't so much as take a lot of damage so much as ensure that their foes never get a good chance to do something powerful. Conversely, the high number of toggle and status powers means that foes resistant to their powers or that are easily capable of toggle dropping are much more difficult for them to deal with.

Fiery Aura: Fire gives up some protection for offensive powers; they have several powers that few (if any) other tankers can not get that boost their offensive capabilities such as draining endurance, a self-revival ability, a buff power that increases fire (and to a lesser extent, other types) attacks, a damaging aura and the ability to set the ground beneath them on fire. If their fiery powers can not quickly take down foes, a Fire Tanker will have greater difficulty in dealing with them.

Invulnerability: Balanced between passive powers and active toggles; it gets good protection to most everything except psionics/psychic damage and status effects; stuff that can disable their toggles or otherwise hinder them will be their bane. Other sets will also tend to have better protection against certain stuff or additional abilities. Likewise, while they are -resistant- to damage, they tend to lack -defense- against damage which other sets usually have. Basically, they're the sort of guy that doesn't really bother to avoid stuff so much as just suck it up. Superman for instance is an extreme example; he doesn't really bother to avoid most attacks since he knows he can mitigate it but when he encounters something that can hurt him... well, he's kinda screwed.

Willpower: Passive power heavy; decent resistance to 'normal' stuff (smashing, lethal, psionic, toxic) with decent defense against 'special' stuff (fire, cold, energy, negative energy). The drawback is that while they have decent protection against everything, they aren't great against anything so they're less capable of taking alpha strikes and such, having to rely upon second wind and enemy-based abilities. Spider-man sorta fits here; they mix up both resistance and avoidance.

As far as the game would go, the main thing would be to consciously design powers that aren't perfect, infallible, and very powerful all at the same time. They wouldn't necessarily have a weakness just that there is some requirement to them - they are tiring to use, they require conscious effort to active, they require the character to be aware of the attack, etc.

Offline WyzardWhately

Re: City of Heroes/Villains (Mutant's & Masterminds 2nd Ed)
« Reply #39 on: April 26, 2008, 10:05:24 PM »
Uhh, yeah, I've played CoH, I have a rudimentary idea of how it works.  That said, M&M is a game of yards, not inches.  Screwing around with really fine details and differentiation is not a strong suit of the game.  I'm not saying by any means that customization is impossible, because it's clearly not, but I think we're probably better off trying to emulate the feel of the world rather than a 1:1 translation of how the game works.  Which is good, because that's an MMO, and this is an RPG.  Different design goals and all that.

Offline JadeCore

Re: City of Heroes/Villains (Mutant's & Masterminds 2nd Ed)
« Reply #40 on: April 27, 2008, 07:25:48 AM »
Just giving an idea to those who haven't. *tickles Mr. Wyzard*

Offline akrasia

Re: City of Heroes/Villains (Mutant's & Masterminds 2nd Ed)
« Reply #41 on: April 27, 2008, 12:13:55 PM »
I'm new here, and interested in playing.  I am pretty familiar with M&M, although not as much with CoX (thanks for the link!).  Being new, however...  how do I get started?  Do I email you a character concept and write up?  Do you email me if you decide you want me in the game?  Basic newbie questions, in other words.

Looking forward to hearing from you!


Offline WyzardWhately

Re: City of Heroes/Villains (Mutant's & Masterminds 2nd Ed)
« Reply #42 on: April 27, 2008, 12:22:28 PM »
Just giving an idea to those who haven't. *tickles Mr. Wyzard*

It's fine, you just seemed to be talking to me, and I didn't want to be giving off an impression that I'm a total noob.

Just as an aside:  How many of the people here are actually into the whole superhero genre?  I've got wide but not deep familiarity with the source material, and so I'm sort of curious if anyone else is actually interested in exploring or playing off of genre tropes.  I mean, being black ops with costumes and eyebeams is totally okay (that's arguably what some of Wildstorm's books were), but that's actually a notably different feel from being just a tightly-focused superhero group.  In other words, there's a distinction there that I think is pretty important, and I'd like to know what side of it we're on.

Also, if anyone wants to babble about comics stuff, I'll probably at least comprehend what they're talking about.

Offline akrasia

Re: City of Heroes/Villains (Mutant's & Masterminds 2nd Ed)
« Reply #43 on: April 27, 2008, 12:31:18 PM »
I'm a huge comics fan, who's played in and run superhero games for decades.  I like making characters that play off of/subvert major genre tropes. 

Offline JadeCore

Re: City of Heroes/Villains (Mutant's & Masterminds 2nd Ed)
« Reply #44 on: April 27, 2008, 04:00:51 PM »
It's fine, you just seemed to be talking to me, and I didn't want to be giving off an impression that I'm a total noob.

I was replying to your statement but speaking to everyone. It's a forum, not a private conversation. ^_^

I enjoy the superhero stuff - I collected for a while, many for the art, some for the stories and characters. And yes, there's certainly a varied difference to both various companies books as well as the different eras each company has developed or how they handle different normal genres (horror, drama, etc) as well as how each company handles little particulars.

Offline WyzardWhately

Re: City of Heroes/Villains (Mutant's & Masterminds 2nd Ed)
« Reply #45 on: April 27, 2008, 07:49:20 PM »
I'm looking forward to the game.  In a forum game we can take the necessary time with the heroes personal lives and how they deal with the dangerous days in Paragon City and the nature of what they do.  I hope ZK puts the heroes in morally ambiguous situations where they have to struggle to find and follow the best path.

Well said.

Offline ZKTopic starter

Re: City of Heroes/Villains (Mutant's & Masterminds 2nd Ed)
« Reply #46 on: April 27, 2008, 09:09:47 PM »
There will be, don't worry, there will be situations from all three primary forms of Comic genres, so it might be kill the remnants of the 5th Column trying to bring back Nazi Germany, beat up the gang of Trolls to that of "Do I save my love interest or this child." >.>

Well, maybe not that harsh, but you get the picture.


ALSO! people, which small group do you to deal with first? Freakshow or Crey Industries?

Offline WyzardWhately

Re: City of Heroes/Villains (Mutant's & Masterminds 2nd Ed)
« Reply #47 on: April 27, 2008, 10:51:38 PM »
Freakshow.

Offline ZKTopic starter

Re: City of Heroes/Villains (Mutant's & Masterminds 2nd Ed)
« Reply #48 on: April 27, 2008, 11:57:34 PM »
I don't know, I do not know of any actual "female demons" aside from the names of a specific few, I don't believe there were any actual "female demons". Most of those were in western religions.

*shrugs*

I know little to nothing about my people's history and such, so, a lot of names are quite lost to me. We don't talk about demons in every-day conversation now. x.x

I'm a third generation Japanese, not first or second, so most of my skills with Japanese are on conversation base level.

Offline JadeCore

Re: City of Heroes/Villains (Mutant's & Masterminds 2nd Ed)
« Reply #49 on: April 28, 2008, 01:45:59 AM »
Same way you would say it in any other language - you'd name the actual type of demon. ;) In most mythos, demon and demoness basically just refer to any sort of evil spirit but there's really no sort of connotation beyond descriptive. Even the word 'oni' really only refers to one type of Japanese demon not them as a whole. It's like the word elf or faerie dark elf or dusky elf - it doesn't actually mean anything other than describing a general category of being. You'd have to name them as a leshy or a kitsune to specify something more.

And unless the word has been taken into common usage as something insulting (the word bitch for instance), it's not really going to be insulting, just descriptive - depending on who is the target and who is saying it, it may not be insulting or it may. Mythos, like language, are always evolving and what was once good or bad may no longer be.

Also, it is important to note that the generation and familiarity of the character with such mythos will color how they perceive any given demon. More than a handful of mythos, Western and Eastern alike, are gray when it comes to whether such things are really evil. While there may be evil demons, not all of them are evil. Some may be good, some may be fickle, some may be both good and bad, some may be neither. And still others may simply be beings with a very specific purpose, bound and living strictly for that purpose, good and bad alike. A character who is aware of this will use the terms differently - taking an English word for instance, the word cunt was originally a term of respect and authority given to a female, long long ago, where as now it's been given a meaning highly different. A character whose culture views death as simply a new stage of life would probably have a more neutral or good view of a death demon/spirit than someone whose culture believes death is an end.

Similarly, a character who has a long generational relationship with that mythos would also have a better understanding of the evolution of those mythos. Many mythos have influenced and been influenced by each other - whether this is Christianity, Norse, Greek, or what have you. On the flip side, someone from a more adversarial background would probably boil things down pretty black-and-white  anyway and misinterpret or ignore such information.

Most important of all is to simply remember that a cultures mythos is simply a way of shaping and exaggerating a belief - and the best way to 'beat' a belief is to create a more powerful one or to integrate that belief in to another one; myths are small truths or cultural desires wrapped up in good story telling. So depending on your character, there may be unknown layers - perhaps you agree that Zeus/Jupiter being so sexually active was a result of Greek/Roman efforts to culturally conquer their neighbors - each female functionally representing a different smaller cultures mother goddess.

Probably would be best to pick some sort of demon that had personal significance or select from a list of demons as appropriate and use them as you think your character would use them to insult someone - a sex-oriented demon to refer to someone being overly promiscuous or a violent or bloodthirsty or vicious demon to refer to someone who are those things. There's really no wrong answer, basically, just better thought upon ones. ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_legendary_creatures_from_Japan - Here's a wiki list to get you started.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2008, 02:22:44 AM by Sagittary »