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Author Topic: What is a life truly worth in the world/society we live in?  (Read 2791 times)

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Offline Shjade

Re: What is a life truly worth in the world/society we live in?
« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2011, 01:42:52 PM »
You'd also have to take into account what the relation of the 'asker' is to the person asked to shoot.  You may want to look into the 'Milgram Experiment'  ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment ), known around my college campus as the 'I vass only followink OHR-derz' experiment.  (Tongue firmly planted in cheek.)  Random guy comes up to me and says 'you have to shoot that random guy and I won't tell you why' - um - eff that.  Full-bird colonel comes up to a private and says 'You have to shoot that man over there, that's an order!' - you'll see a completely different dynamic.

Indeed. If a full-bird colonel gives the order it's, "Eff that, SIR."

Offline EliGodwin

Re: What is a life truly worth in the world/society we live in?
« Reply #26 on: December 07, 2011, 12:22:12 PM »
You'd also have to take into account what the relation of the 'asker' is to the person asked to shoot.  You may want to look into the 'Milgram Experiment'  ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment ), known around my college campus as the 'I vass only followink OHR-derz' experiment.  (Tongue firmly planted in cheek.)  Random guy comes up to me and says 'you have to shoot that random guy and I won't tell you why' - um - eff that.  Full-bird colonel comes up to a private and says 'You have to shoot that man over there, that's an order!' - you'll see a completely different dynamic.

 This is interesting on many levels, one of them being that just now I responded to someone that had asked about the Name Godwin and how the Godwin Law states that at some point no matter what in a forum the conversation would have something to do with Hitler or Nazi's. I had told him no I had not heard of that before and found it curious. But now I switch back here and the experiment you speak of also speaks of the holocaust.  And 2. I like learning new things and will read more onto that experiment later tonight after im done studying for my finals which are next week.

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Re: What is a life truly worth in the world/society we live in?
« Reply #27 on: December 07, 2011, 12:29:38 PM »
*smiles*

While Godwin's Law is usually a way of ending an argument where people have restored to extreme name-calling, comparing a relatively minor offender to Hitler or the Nazis, in this case it's actually more relevant.  The bare-bones idea is that people are more likely to do something that they find personally distasteful if there is an authority figure that they can make 'responsible' for the consequences.  (Many of my friends were also quite fond of 'Hogan's Heroes'.)

Offline EliGodwin

Re: What is a life truly worth in the world/society we live in?
« Reply #28 on: December 07, 2011, 12:29:45 PM »
The idea that life is becoming less valuable seems really weird to me, especially in the US, though I'd be surprised if there's more than pockets across the globe where it's not the case.

It's hard for me to think that life is valued less today than it has been in the past, when I consider the falling support for capital punishment, the decreasing cases of capital punishment, the fact that we used to let people buy and sell humans as a commodity (and that we no longer do), etc.

Ok, then let me turn the question a bit... If you hear that your neighbor just lost his job and he can't afford food for his/her family, what would you do?

Now, after you answer that, how many times do you check on your neighbors to see how they are doing.

And finally, how many neighbors do you spend time getting to know instead of learning about the ones your around all the time with at work and/or a bar?

Offline EliGodwin

Re: What is a life truly worth in the world/society we live in?
« Reply #29 on: December 07, 2011, 12:42:56 PM »
It's a little disingenuous to discount sincere answers to a question you asked.  Maybe it was just a rhetorical question?  Personally, I couldn't be bought either, and that's assuming it was a total stranger.  Maybe those who could be are less likely to answer your question, but just based on this thread, it would seem that your assumptions are pretty well off the mark.

~nods~ and I completely understand where you may think that I was being disingenuous to his answer, and meant no disrespect or anything of the sort. I only meant to clarify my original question. And yes I hope my assumption is completely off the mark, but at the same time I see every day the way we treat complete strangers. When you walk down the street, if you see a homeless person, do you wonder how he/she got there? do you assume he/she is there because of bad decisions? or do you give that person as much help as you can offer or find for that person? Case in Point, it is a stigma or stereotype to say a homeless person will use any money given to them to buy beer or something illegal because that is what they all do. But right now Homelessness is on the rise because the banks can't keep from spending money they don't have so they kick people out of their homes for being a month or two past due on their mortgage. And when others gather to protest this the rich look down on them drinking their champagne and laugh. But to bring my point home I'm going to copy/paste a news report (because I can't post links yet) About a guy who did something amazing recently on a new post to this thread and would love to know if any of you would do the same.

Offline EliGodwin

Re: What is a life truly worth in the world/society we live in?
« Reply #30 on: December 07, 2011, 12:45:31 PM »
*smiles*

While Godwin's Law is usually a way of ending an argument where people have restored to extreme name-calling, comparing a relatively minor offender to Hitler or the Nazis, in this case it's actually more relevant.  The bare-bones idea is that people are more likely to do something that they find personally distasteful if there is an authority figure that they can make 'responsible' for the consequences.  (Many of my friends were also quite fond of 'Hogan's Heroes'.)

LMAO Nice analogy with Hogan's Heroes. Loved the show and the movie. I know they where two different story lines but I get your point. And yes I agree with the "responsible party" Thus why I added the person asking you to do the killing was an authority figure.

Offline EliGodwin

Re: What is a life truly worth in the world/society we live in?
« Reply #31 on: December 07, 2011, 12:55:15 PM »
I posted in an earlier reply that I would copy/paste a news story. Here it is.

Quote
Julio Diaz has a daily routine. Every night, the 31-year-old social worker ends his hour-long subway commute to the Bronx one stop early, just so he can eat at his favorite diner.

But one night last month, as Diaz stepped off the No. 6 train and onto a nearly empty platform, his evening took an unexpected turn.

He was walking toward the stairs when a teenage boy approached and pulled out a knife.

"He wants my money, so I just gave him my wallet and told him, 'Here you go,'" Diaz says.

As the teen began to walk away, Diaz told him, "Hey, wait a minute. You forgot something. If you're going to be robbing people for the rest of the night, you might as well take my coat to keep you warm."

The would-be robber looked at his would-be victim, "like what's going on here?" Diaz says. "He asked me, 'Why are you doing this?'"

Diaz replied: "If you're willing to risk your freedom for a few dollars, then I guess you must really need the money. I mean, all I wanted to do was get dinner and if you really want to join me ... hey, you're more than welcome.

"You know, I just felt maybe he really needs help," Diaz says.

Diaz says he and the teen went into the diner and sat in a booth.

"The manager comes by, the dishwashers come by, the waiters come by to say hi," Diaz says. "The kid was like, 'You know everybody here. Do you own this place?'"

"No, I just eat here a lot," Diaz says he told the teen. "He says, 'But you're even nice to the dishwasher.'"

Diaz replied, "Well, haven't you been taught you should be nice to everybody?"

"Yea, but I didn't think people actually behaved that way," the teen said.

Diaz asked him what he wanted out of life. "He just had almost a sad face," Diaz says.

The teen couldn't answer Diaz or he didn't want to.

When the bill arrived, Diaz told the teen, "Look, I guess you're going to have to pay for this bill 'cause you have my money and I can't pay for this. So if you give me my wallet back, I'll gladly treat you."

The teen "didn't even think about it" and returned the wallet, Diaz says. "I gave him $20 ... I figure maybe it'll help him. I don't know."

Diaz says he asked for something in return the teen's knife "and he gave it to me."

Afterward, when Diaz told his mother what happened, she said, "You're the type of kid that if someone asked you for the time, you gave them your watch."

"I figure, you know, if you treat people right, you can only hope that they treat you right. It's as simple as it gets in this complicated world."

Produced for Morning Edition by Michael Garofalo. of NPR News

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Re: What is a life truly worth in the world/society we live in?
« Reply #32 on: December 07, 2011, 01:12:03 PM »
LMAO Nice analogy with Hogan's Heroes. Loved the show and the movie. I know they where two different story lines but I get your point. And yes I agree with the "responsible party" Thus why I added the person asking you to do the killing was an authority figure.

And I'm only now connecting your comment about Godwin to your username.  XD

The thing is, by including that the asker is an authority figure, the results get skewed.  Ideally, both asker and target would be unknown to the subject, in order to eliminate bias based on the target's perceived 'right to live' or the asker's perceived 'right to command'.