To my American Friends.

[summoner2183]

To my American friends, I know what I am about to say might garner some response from you. Some good, some bad. I have watched this election of yours, not closely... but close enough. For the record, I do not support or presume to support any of the candidates during this 18-month hellish election and campaigning. Some of you might or might not unfriend me. If you do, it would be sad but I would be alright. We might have our different opinions, but I understand and will never think less of anything of you even if you unfriend me and all that.


I am just a simple young man from Indonesia, right across the globe and from a different continent altogether and I know I will not be affected by what might happen over there... but while I do not necessarily agree with what your President Elect has said and probably done in the past or during this election... let us not forget that he, like us is human. To err is to be human. No one is perfect. Not even your newly elected President. Granted, he might have said and done things that displeases a lot of people. I get that.


But now the election is over, and what I want to say is... pray. Pray that what he speaks in his acceptance speech is true. Pray that he will indeed help and foster healing among all Americans and that he would indeed offer opportunities for people... all Americans from all walks of life, all ethnic backgrounds and nationalities as well as all faiths as he has spoken of in his acceptance speech. Some of you might disagree with me on this... but this is a time for healing for all of you and not be divided. Be strong and stand together as one people to rebuild for a greater America that you will love more than ever. Give the man a chance... and you might be surprised at what might happen during the 4 years under his tenure as your President.


God bless you all and your families.... and God Bless the United States of America.

[TheSithChicken]

He is a liar, a cheat, and a thief. He is an admitted rapist. He is a bigot and misogynist who has publicly stated that he wants to have sex with his daughter. His first proposed action is to put a man in charge of the Environmental Protection Agency who does not believe in climate change. To err is human. To do all of this is insane. Prayer will not change any of this. Prayer will not make a man who has spent his entire life worsening the lives of those around him into someone worthy of respect or the office he holds. Prayer will not change the fact that this man has bought his way out of prison many time. Prayer will not change the fact that he has a trial starting next month for defrauding Americans out of millions of dollars or that he would have had one starting this month if his followers had not bombarded his rape victim with death threats.

This man has had 70 years to prove that he is not a piece of shit. He has failed spectacularly. He does not deserve a chance. If there was a God Trump would die penny-less and alone in a forgotten back alley. Prayer will not help and coming together will not happen. His followers are too busy jeering and shoving it in our face that they elected a bigot while the KKK is already on the streets telling black people "That all the niggers are going back to Africa!"*. Hatred is now mainstream in this country. Your message - however well intended - does not reflect the reality of our situation.

* And this example? Already happened. I didn't make it up to be shocking.

[Sheoldred]

Is it an unpopular opinion on E to think he is the lesser evil compared to Hillary?

[Gypsy]

Thank you, summoner2183. 

[Florence]

Is it an unpopular opinion on E to think he is the lesser evil compared to Hillary?

I'm not a fan of either, but when you're not straight OR cisgender and have to live in this country, it's hard to view any serious Presidential bid in recent memory as being worse than Trump/Pence.

MABYE Ted Cruz. I mean, if I'm going to take any comfort out of this election, its that Ted Cruz didn't win.

But what we do have is an insecure, petty, wild-tempered, misogynistic xenophobe for President, and an unapologetic homophobe for VP. And they're both climate change deniers. Trump goes so far as to call it a Chinese conspiracy.

I mean, sure, if you believe everything's Trump supporters say about Hillary, she tortures puppies in her spare time and drinks the blood of orphans for breakfast. In reality, though, she's pretty much more of the same. She wouldn't have been particularly great, I don't think, but worse than Trump? Not by a long shot in my book.

Edit: Minor correction. Upon factchecking, I'm finding conflicting answers about Pence's stance on climate change. He may actually have accepted that man-made climate change is real.

[Twisted Crow]

I just wanted to take time to say that I appreciate your sentiment, Summoner2183. 

[summoner2183]

I just wanted to take time to say that I appreciate your sentiment, Summoner2183. 

I know my words cant make everyone happy and I am across the globe where you guys are. You guys are Americans... tough and resilient. You will survive this, I know you guys will.

[summoner2183]

Thank you, summoner2183. 

I know my words cant make everyone happy and I am across the globe where you guys are. You guys are Americans... tough and resilient. You will survive this, I know you guys will.

[Sheoldred]

I'm not a fan of either, but when you're not straight OR cisgender and have to live in this country, it's hard to view any serious Presidential bid in recent memory as being worse than Trump/Pence.

Lots of gay and bi people voted for Trump though, including Milo Yiannopoulos. They don't seem to think he's that bad but some make it seem like the end of the world has come.

[Ryven]

Our soon to be new VP advocates conversion therapy for the LGBT openly.  The organization for marriage is already making a plan with them to overturn all progress that has been made.  Yes, they are human, but they are no humans that I wish to be in any seat of power within my government.

[Oniya]

What we - as Americans - need to do is focus on how we can make things better.  Even just as individuals.  If you're in college, start a GSA chapter, or an anti-bullying club.  Find local organizations and volunteer.  Reach out to people who are hurting.  Write to your reps and local pols and fergodsake, vote for the ones you want in whenever possible.

Am I giving this Presidency a chance?  Not really.  But I think we can give the American people a chance.  There are a lot more people stunned about this election than I think we realize.

[Gypsy]

[Florence]

Lots of gay and bi people voted for Trump though, including Milo Yiannopoulos. They don't seem to think he's that bad but some make it seem like the end of the world has come.

I think "lots" is a pretty big exaggeration here.

And as for Milo... well, he says and does a LOT of things most lgbt people would consider pretty reprehensible.

What we - as Americans - need to do is focus on how we can make things better.  Even just as individuals.  If you're in college, start a GSA chapter, or an anti-bullying club.  Find local organizations and volunteer.  Reach out to people who are hurting.  Write to your reps and local pols and fergodsake, vote for the ones you want in whenever possible.

Am I giving this Presidency a chance?  Not really.  But I think we can give the American people a chance.  There are a lot more people stunned about this election than I think we realize.

You're not WRONG, but I'm just going to need some time to be angry and hate the American people before I can get to the 'okay, now how do we fix this mess' stage.

Though, I suppose to be fair, the American people didn't give us Trump. The electoral college did. Really, I think people who are outraged about this (myself included) need to work on directing our anger that way. The electoral college is something that we've needed to do away with for a long, LONG time, and this election has really highlighted why. The idea that someone can win the popular vote and somehow still lose is absurd.

I mean... I can get the sentiment that's trying to convey, but the way it seems to imply hating someone based on a choice they made that has real consequences for other people (voting) and hating someone based on some arbitrary happenstance of birth (ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation) are effectively the same thing rubs me the wrong way.

Sure, hate might not be the right answer right now; though I think some of us need to let it run its course as part of the grieving process; but hating people because of how they were born and hating someone because of their actions aren't really the same thing. And, of course, not all actions are equal either. Voting for Trump and voting for Hillary are both actions, but one certainly ranks well above the other in my book.

[Trigon]

Many levels of our government desperately need reform after this presidency is over, not just the Electoral College.

#NotMyPresident

Nuff said.

[Whowhatwhere]

#NotMyPresident

That's the same thing that Republicans said when Obama won back in 2008.

[Florence]

That's the same thing that Republicans said when Obama won back in 2008.

That was because he's black.

This is because he's a bigoted, misogynist pig with a god complex.

Not quite the same thing.

[HannibalBarca]

There's a lot to be said about false equivalencies being put up, mainly by the mainstream media over the last several years.

#NotMyPresident over Obama was indeed about racism.

#NotMyPresident over Trump is because of actual, verified, on video behavior and actions that are reprehensible.

I've been lukewarm over Obama, being an extreme lefty, Socialist type.  But at least the man is humane and empathetic.  He's shown he cares for and loves his family and bends over backwards (sometimes unfortunately) to work with those across the aisle.

Trump has shown behavior indicating narcissistic personality disorder and sociopathic tendencies.

But, as I've mentioned before on other threads...Trump isn't the biggest problem.  It's how his election enables the racists, homophobes, and other haters, in Congress and in the nation in general.  He was endorsed by the KKK, for fuck's sake.

[Skynet]

Lots of gay and bi people voted for Trump though, including Milo Yiannopoulos. They don't seem to think he's that bad but some make it seem like the end of the world has come.

I don't think you can use Milo Yiannopoulos as a legitimate example, consdering that although he's gay he's not in favor of LGBT rights, like marriage and anti-discrimination laws.

This is a thing I see often of conservatives and similarly ideological groups who take out an individual or certain groups normally opposed to them and say "we're not bigoted, we've got this guy!" as though that mitigates their own policies and statements

But like with Mike Pence and "gay conversion therapy" mentioned above, they're really just being part of groups which as a whole are against their rights. I'm sure there are many different reasons, but I think quite a few hope to avoid the worst by being seen as "one of the good ones."

[Zakharra]

There's a lot to be said about false equivalencies being put up, mainly by the mainstream media over the last several years.

#NotMyPresident over Obama was indeed about racism.

  I have stayed out of the political stuff for the most part over the last few years, but given the sheer amount of angst, bullshit and crap, from BOTH sides of the aisle and having listened to and read news articles online for the last decade or so, for the bolded part, citation is damned well needed. From what I have seen, a lot of Obama's supporters painted -anyone- who disagreed with President Obama's policies as them being against Obama because he is a black man. That is just false and, pardon my language, is really fucking offensive.

A hell of a lot of people I know, personally or online and in a lot of the media and radio, that I have seen and read, didn't give a damn about President Obama's skin color, what they disliked and were opposed to was his policies. Yet to many, we're tarred as being, automatically racist because we dislike what the first black President is doing. Much the same thing has happened with regards to anyone who opposed Hillary Clinton and/or supported Trump. They are all labeled racist, sexist, misogynists, bigoted, homophobicm islamophobes by a damned large section of the social media and mainstream media, and it's damned offensive when the people labeling us that do it without thinking. As bad as some think the Republicans and right are, the Democrats and left are just as bad (in somewhat different ways) and exactly who is rioting and constantly protesting now, and who didn't riot and constantly protest when Obama was elected, twice? The left... So please spare me the automatic bullshit excuses of racist, sexist, misogynist, bigot and actually provide some damned FACTS of what has been done before that garbage is spewed out like bile.

/rant 

Sorry about that, that wasn't aimed at you HB, but the racist label kind of set me off. I have been hearing about how all Republicans and the right are racist, sexist, misogynists, bigoted, homophobic, islamophobes for a year and a half and it is kind of pissing me off. That hasn't necessarily happened here, E is pretty even handed about that, thankfully. So I do not mean to offend anyone, I just felt I needed to speak my mind about the labeling. I wish people would open up their minds and think before they label entire groups as what I've mentioned.

[NicciKotor]

That's a lot of historical revisionism. McConnell said in 2009 that his primary job was to make Obama a one term president, by unilaterally opposing anything Obama was for, even with policies that republicans supported in the past. The rest of the GOP Congress went along with this, because no matter what, they couldn't allow a black man to succeed. The whole point was to delegitimaize him at every turn.

Thanks to this election, we liberals should finally understand this. Conservatives hate America and want to destroy it, and the sooner we come to grips that we're dealing with literal fascists that want one party rule in america, the sooner we can begin to fight back in earnest. No more being nice, the risks are too high.

[HannibalBarca]

Zakharra, I'd never label you racist, simply because I don't know you well enough.  My points were made from not only experiences I've had personally, but from numerous points of evidence I've seen both online and in media over the last eight years.  I don't deal in superlatives.  Not all Conservatives and Republicans are racists.  My father is both, and he's not racist.  His father was, which was ironic, considering my grandmother was a Blackfoot who grew up on a reservation in North Dakota.  But I digress.  The truth is, there are a lot of racists on the Right.  There are fewer on the Left, though there are some there, too.  But the monkey images of Obama weren't put up to protest monkey rights. You don't get much more racist than those.

We've had liberal and conservative Presidents for generations, and nobody ever mentioned anything like 'Not My President' before Obama.  Obama's socially liberal, but much of his economic choices were moderate or even leaned a bit to the right.  Obamacare was mentioned many times as drawn much from Mitt Romney's plan when he was governor of Massachusetts, but originally it was created by a conservative think tank.  Considering all of this and more, Obama wasn't more liberal than Presidents like Lyndon Johnson, or Jimmy Carter, or Franklin Roosevelt.

Those alt-right people?  Yeah, them.  They aren't liberals.  And they are racist.  The same ones who talked about shooting Hillary or rising up if she was elected.  Now that the shoe is on the other foot...well.  Riots aren't a good thing, but a riot isn't organized.  They aren't planning an armed insurrection against the government.  And if they did, they'd be put down.  But ask yourself, if someone was threatening to take away your rights--or had already done so through voter suppression--you'd at the very least be mad, wouldn't you?  Isn't that what many Trump voters were fearful of if Hillary was elected?  All of nine Congressional investigations into Hillary over Benghazi by a Republican-led Congress found nothing to indict her for.  Compare that to almost daily hateful proclamations by Trump over women, illegals, pretty much anyone who didn't fit his niche market. 

I don't like Hillary.  But I saw what Trump looked like when he met Obama at the White House.  The man looked overwhelmed.  As a born elitist billionaire, he's been surrounded by sycophants and yes-men his entire life.  When the reality of doing the job of running the nation actually hit home, he looked shocked.  He isn't prepared.  Likely his administration, like Bush, will be run by other, more savvy people.  People none of us voted for.  People who are just as establishment as the people Trump said he wanted to drain the swamp over.  Reince Preibus as his chief of staff, really?  That's getting rid of the establishment, naming the head of the RNC as your chief of staff?

[Zakharra]

 I'm not saying you were calling me a racist, I just got fed up about the one part of your post I bolded: #NotMyPresident over Obama was indeed about racism.   you just happened to say what I've seen others say in the internet and news (not here on E cause everyone here is very open minded and not that judgemental. which is nice) and it set me off (dare I say it triggered me? ;P  ) I have seen a lot of liberal, leftists and media pundits saying that pretty much anyone (by implication) who supported/voted for Trump is an intolerant racist, sexist, bigoted, misogynist, islamaphobe, homophobe (or any mixture of those labels), and it is very very irritating that they label everyone who disagrees with them with such a broad brush.

I'd posit there's a good number of racists on the Left too. The current SJW and Safe Space, anti-white (privilege) types don't exactly strike me as being very tolerant of anyone who is not agreeing with them. And I remember seeing a good number political pundits who compared Bush 43 to a monkey and a good number of political cartoonists who drew him as a monkey. so I don't think drawing President Obama as a monkey can be considered racist when the previous president got the same treatment.

  I'll see what President Trump's (it's so weird saying that!) policies actually are before rendering judgement on his term in office.

The problem is, to many leftists/Democrats I have seen on the left, pretty much everyone who supported and voted for Trump is alt-right and therefor a racist. That's the broad brush I was speaking of earlier. Many on the left just seem to automatically label the entire Right/Republican party that. And that disturbs me.

I don't doubt Trump is somewhat overwhelmed. The power and sheer amount of pressure that is on a President 24/7 for their entire term is mind boggling immense. That should be enough to overwhelm anyone.  What I really dislike about Hillary is how she seemed to expect getting the Presidency as her just due, like it was her office, her time to get it no matter what. That kind of condescending smugness irritates the hell out of me.


And on the labeling of the Right as racists....:

That's a lot of historical revisionism. McConnell said in 2009 that his primary job was to make Obama a one term president, by unilaterally opposing anything Obama was for, even with policies that republicans supported in the past. The rest of the GOP Congress went along with this, because no matter what, they couldn't allow a black man to succeed. The whole point was to delegitimaize him at every turn.

Thanks to this election, we liberals should finally understand this. Conservatives hate America and want to destroy it, and the sooner we come to grips that we're dealing with literal fascists that want one party rule in america, the sooner we can begin to fight back in earnest. No more being nice, the risks are too high.

/deep breath

NOT EVERYONE WHO DISAGREED WITH PRESIDENT OBAMA WAS A RACIST FFS!! STOP assuming that any disagreement on the policies of a black man that means those who disagree are racist! Did it ever occur to you that maybe, just maybe, it's his POLICIES that people disagree with and his race is a non-factor? And for goodness sake stop with the; 'Conservatives hate America and want to destroy it, and the sooner we come to grips that we're dealing with literal fascists that want one party rule in america' bullshit. That's not helping the left in any debate. I mean look at what you wrote there. That isn't going t owin you guys any converts on the right or among conservatives (and you call us racist and a danger to democracy...)

[Trigon]

On the contrary, Zakharra, we are in fact well aware of the flaws of the Obama administration. Such as its support for neoliberal economic policies that exacerbate the gulf between the 1% and all the rest, to give an example.

But the fact of the matter is, Trump ran an openly misogynistic, racist, homophobic, paranoid, etc. And yet a rather large portion of American voters chose him anyway. The large majority of those people were in fact people who identified with the conservative or the hard Right, and there is no getting around that.

Essentially, the people who voted for Trump can be categorized into the following:

1) People who are in fact racist, sexist, etc.
2) People who are deeply cynical, or
3) People who were grossly misinformed.

It is certainly the case that some who are conservative are otherwise liberal when it comes to social or cultural issues, and wouldn't have voted for Trump. But other than a few high profile cases, they are otherwise few and far between.

And yes, it is certainly the case that the liberals share some of the blame too. This short article illuminates where the liberals helped make a Trump presidency possible: http://m.truthdig.com/report/page2/its_worse_than_you_think_20161111

But whatever the ultimate causes of a Trump presidency, it is time pull your head out of the sand and face the facts: the primary goals of the Political Right is to preserve patriarchy, reassert white supremacy, create a new aristocracy, and persecute all those they deem inferior. And they are willing and ready to wage total war in order to realize their bigoted goals.

The few conservatives who continue to be against this are laudable and brave, and I look forward to working with them, but we must keep in mind that they totally dropped the ball on this. And in my view, they share a much larger portion of the blame than do the liberals or the "Left"...

[NicciKotor]

NOT EVERYONE WHO DISAGREED WITH PRESIDENT OBAMA WAS A RACIST FFS!! STOP assuming that any disagreement on the policies of a black man that means those who disagree are racist! Did it ever occur to you that maybe, just maybe, it's his POLICIES that people disagree with and his race is a non-factor? And for goodness sake stop with the; 'Conservatives hate America and want to destroy it, and the sooner we come to grips that we're dealing with literal fascists that want one party rule in america' bullshit. That's not helping the left in any debate. I mean look at what you wrote there. That isn't going t owin you guys any converts on the right or among conservatives (and you call us racist and a danger to democracy...)

Again, that's a lot of historical revisionism. The fact of the matter is that, for over 8 years, republicans have flat out refused to work with liberals because of Obama. They hated him so much that they took the government to a shutdown on multiple occasions and refused to work on policies that everyone agreed were good ideas. That sort of pathological inability to actual govern can only come from people that want a fascist one party rule, as they are currently cheerleading about with Trump. They want a autocracy, and you are willfully blind to this.

[Trigon]

Not to mention their promise for doing the exact same thing to Hillary if she had won, such as continuing to refuse to hold hearings on any of her Supreme Court justice picks...