The 2022 U.S. Election

[Callie Del Noire]

Yeah. I don’t like Crist much either, but he’s like Biden. Better than the alternative.

But he’s been proven to be unelectable.

[Clio]

But he’s been proven to be unelectable.

Not disagreeing with you. I’m saying I voted for him against DeSantis, but I didn’t in the primary.

[Callie Del Noire]

Not disagreeing with you. I’m saying I voted for him against DeSantis, but I didn’t in the primary.

Same here. I’m also Prop2 was approved.

[persephone325]

I use isidewith.com to help me figure out which candidates align most with my beliefs and wants. I'm actually really surprised with the results, since (for the upcoming presidential election) my top 5 highest-aligned candidates (70% or higher) consist of two independents, two republicans, and one democrat.

I think it's interesting how my view point has changed over the past couple of years.

[Dashenka]

I think it's interesting how my view point has changed over the past couple of years.

Not saying this is the case but isn't it possible that people in general vote a side because they feel they have to?

Vote Biden because you (think you) are a Democrat. When in reality, how much does the average person know about the plans and ideas of said party or person? I know people who are hated because they voted for the Republican party for the policies but then get blamed for voting Trump or DeSantis.

I don't know exactly how things work in the US (I assume similar to the UK) but don't you vote for a party and a policy rather than a person? I'm sure there are many Republicans who think Trump is an incompetent oaf. As well as there has to be a lot of Democrats who think the same about Biden.

Voting for the Republicans isn't the same, or shouldn't be the same, as voting for Trump.


I'm not saying you can completely see them separate, because you can't but I think, you should first vote to the policies your party has and secondly for the person trying to get them done. When the majority of the people in a State or region experience problems with immigration, they want something done about that. Was building a wall and having the Mexicans pay for it a Republican idea or was it Trump's party piece?

Long story short, I think that a lot of people (I'm not pointing fingers), not just in the US but everywhere, vote a certain side or direction not because they know what said side wants or stands for, but because they feel pressured into voting a certain side. Read up, do research, find out what the different political sides and people want and actually vote like that.

[persephone325]

I'm sure some people feel like they have to vote for a particular side, even if it doesn't align with their views.

When I was younger, I didn't put much thought into politics or do much research on who was running. I voted third party hoping that the rest of the world would wake up and see how horrible both "main" candidates were. But, of course, that didn't happen.

Voting for the Republicans isn't the same, or shouldn't be the same, as voting for Trump.

Personally, I think this should be everyone's viewpoint. If Trump runs again with policies that align with my beliefs, then I'd most likely vote for him. Is he the best person for the job? Some people think so. Others...not so much - to put it nicely. lol Does this mean I respect or like him? No. It's the same reason I watch Tom Cruise in the Mission Impossible movies. I don't care for his Scientology crap and how he acts, but he's a damn good actor and I respect that aspect. Taylor Swift - I can't stand her, but she does have a few bangers.

Just my opinion on the matter.

[gaggedLouise]

My personal suspicion/guess is that many/most of them he doesn't think he's lying, that somewhere in the intersection of age + upbringing + temperament he lost the ability to cleanly distinguish between what is real and what he wants to be real.

Agree. I think that's what John Kelly was quoted as saying too (after having spent two years as Trump's chief of staff), that for Trump Truth doesn't exist as an objective thing independent of what he wants it to be at any given moment.  He has the same perception of truth as an adverts man - and well, he's spent most of his life advertising himself, so that's not a massive surprise. Trump probably thinks it's the given right of celebrities like himself to play fast and loose with the truth and mythologize themselves if they want to.

And almost certainly, he will go ahead today and announce that he's running for the White House again in 2024. Which will be an almost certain failure, becauswe the mere fact that he's the nominee would act as a powerful locomotive to bring many millions of Democrats and middle-ground voters, even worried republicans to the polls to vote against him. (And if he isn't crowned the nominee, then he is going to do anything he can to obstruct the campaign for whoever is the GOP nominee - De Santis?).

This is promising to be political comedy turned reality on a Shakespearean scale.

[Humble Scribe]

If Trump runs again with policies that align with my beliefs, then I'd most likely vote for him.

The trouble is that Trump doesn't have policies, just things he says in order to get his way. If that means demonising Mexicans and Muslims so people vote for him, so be it. If it means pretending he won an election that he didn't, so be it. If it means whipping a crowd up to intimidate the legislature into certifying an election that he didn't win, so be it. That kind of grand scale narcissism is what paves the way to states of emergency, 'temporarily' suspended elections and ultimately dictatorship. Of course there's corruption and cronyism in Democratic politics, as in all politics, but this cult of personality was (and I am sincerely hoping that it is now in the past) genuinely dangerous.

[gaggedLouise]

The trouble is that Trump doesn't have policies, just things he says in order to get his way. If that means demonising Mexicans and Muslims so people vote for him, so be it. If it means pretending he won an election that he didn't, so be it. If it means whipping a crowd up to intimidate the legislature into certifying an election that he didn't win, so be it. That kind of grand scale narcissism is what paves the way to states of emergency, 'temporarily' suspended elections and ultimately dictatorship. Of course there's corruption and cronyism in Democratic politics, as in all politics, but this cult of personality was (and I am sincerely hoping that it is now in the past) genuinely dangerous.

This kind of stuff normally happens in deeply corrupt banana republics with weak legal systems, government control of much of the media and leaders who aspire to appointing themselves to continue for five more years - and who can use instigated violence or bogus elections to have their way - but it's really unusual to see it happening in a modern, supposedly stable western democracy.

[Dashenka]

a modern, western democracy.

Did you just refer to the US as the above?  :o

[gaggedLouise]

Did you just refer to the US as the above?  :o

I was trying to convince myself and others that this is still reasonable, for all its flaws....  :P

[TheGlyphstone]

Not saying this is the case but isn't it possible that people in general vote a side because they feel they have to?

Vote Biden because you (think you) are a Democrat. When in reality, how much does the average person know about the plans and ideas of said party or person? I know people who are hated because they voted for the Republican party for the policies but then get blamed for voting Trump or DeSantis.

I don't know exactly how things work in the US (I assume similar to the UK) but don't you vote for a party and a policy rather than a person? I'm sure there are many Republicans who think Trump is an incompetent oaf. As well as there has to be a lot of Democrats who think the same about Biden.

Voting for the Republicans isn't the same, or shouldn't be the same, as voting for Trump.


I'm not saying you can completely see them separate, because you can't but I think, you should first vote to the policies your party has and secondly for the person trying to get them done. When the majority of the people in a State or region experience problems with immigration, they want something done about that. Was building a wall and having the Mexicans pay for it a Republican idea or was it Trump's party piece?

Long story short, I think that a lot of people (I'm not pointing fingers), not just in the US but everywhere, vote a certain side or direction not because they know what said side wants or stands for, but because they feel pressured into voting a certain side. Read up, do research, find out what the different political sides and people want and actually vote like that.

I'm sure some people feel like they have to vote for a particular side, even if it doesn't align with their views.

When I was younger, I didn't put much thought into politics or do much research on who was running. I voted third party hoping that the rest of the world would wake up and see how horrible both "main" candidates were. But, of course, that didn't happen.

Personally, I think this should be everyone's viewpoint. If Trump runs again with policies that align with my beliefs, then I'd most likely vote for him. Is he the best person for the job? Some people think so. Others...not so much - to put it nicely. lol Does this mean I respect or like him? No. It's the same reason I watch Tom Cruise in the Mission Impossible movies. I don't care for his Scientology crap and how he acts, but he's a damn good actor and I respect that aspect. Taylor Swift - I can't stand her, but she does have a few bangers.

Just my opinion on the matter.

Negative partisanship is also at an all-time high, which ties into this. I'm perfectly happy to admit that I'm not really onboard with everything the Democratic Party is advocating for (also keeping in mind the DP is a massive coalition spanning everyone from Joe Manchin to Alexandria Occasio-Cortez), but the current state and direction of the Republican party is incredibly, deeply concerning to me and not one I'm willing to help advance right now.

[Dashenka]

*starts rant*

Western democracies are not modern.

A modern democracy would have the votes counted and a result, minutes or hours after the election. Not days or weeks.

You can have burgers and sushi delivered to your house at the click of a mouse but in order to vote, you have to leave your house and go somewhere. Do they use computers? Or a pencil (as they do in the Netherlands)... What's modern about that?

The constitution was written when? 1700? When my house is that old, I wouldn't say I have a modern house.


There's nothing modern about politics.


*ends rant*

Negative partisanship is also at an all-time high, which ties into this. I'm perfectly happy to admit that I'm not really onboard with everything the Democratic Party is advocating for (also keeping in mind the DP is a massive coalition spanning everyone from Joe Manchin to Alexandria Occasio-Cortez), but the current state and direction of the Republican party is incredibly, deeply concerning to me and not one I'm willing to help advance right now.

But does that make it right to judge people who vote Republican? My experience is that the extreme sides are the loudest. The extreme side of the Democrats and the extreme sides of the Republicans. Everything in between still exist as well.

In the end everybody has the right to vote for whatever party or person they believe represents them best. Nobody should be bullied or threatened or discriminated because of that. Your vote to the Democrats should be respected as should my imaginary vote to the Republicans. Not because you support Biden or because I support Trump, but because it's our personal believe.

[gaggedLouise]

Avccording to CNN (two hours ago in this live blog) Republicans are one seat short of a majority in the House, but there are thirteen House races that are still uncalled, and some of them might take a full month to decide. Does this actually mean that the House is out of session until shortly before Christmas, or will the old distribution of seats carry on until sometime before Christmas or just after New Year?

[Laughing Hyena]

Speaking of 45 he just announced his run for 2024. Cue the agony of this shit yet again.

[Dashenka]

Or maybe the US voters have finally seen his true colours and will actually vote for a better option.....


Oh wait.. there are none.


Never mind then...


Cue the agony of this shit yet again.

[TheGlyphstone]

Assuming he wins the primary this time. The GOP has pretty much purged its moderate wing, so the 2024 primary will be Trump vs. Trumpian disciples. And in that crowd there are certainly worse options, like Ron DeSantis - every bit as ideologically extreme as Trump, but actually has three brain cells that aren't coated in gold plating. 45's single saving grace was that his ego and squirrel-on-meth attention span kept him ineffectual.

[Vekseid]

Most presidents have endeavored to be honest. Trump, Reagan, and Nixon are three notable exceptions, not the rule.

I don't take any claim that Trump doesn't know he's lying remotely seriously. I've dealt with enough narcissists on this forum to know a textbook when I see one.

Trump states what he wants to be true, and expects those around him to make that reality happen. When they don't, he gets pissy.

There are also lies he simply does not care about. Remember what he said about 'lock her up' just after the election? "Now that we've won we don't care anymore."

Likewise, the wall. Built four miles of it during his tenure.

Not saying this is the case but isn't it possible that people in general vote a side because they feel they have to?

Vote Biden because you (think you) are a Democrat. When in reality, how much does the average person know about the plans and ideas of said party or person? I know people who are hated because they voted for the Republican party for the policies but then get blamed for voting Trump or DeSantis.

Meanwhile we have Republicans murdering people they think are Democrats.

Beyond this, I don't know a single Republican who votes for them on any policy that is respectable. Republicans have never done well by the economy.

You know what would really keep inflation down in the US right now?

Trustbusting, un-fuck what Trump did with border and immigration policy, and if he hadn't disbanded our pandemic response team.

So then they have their genuine policies to run on.

1) Force birth. Even if she's ten. Even if it's ectopic.

2) Make sure everyone has access to guns, and dismantle any social structures to make sure people are in good mental health.

3) Vigilante censorship. Don't like my reply? You can sue me in Texas.

4) Voter suppression.

Polls show voters prefer Democrat policies 70% to 90% of the time. If people became genuinely aware of each party's policies on November 7th and voted purely based on their policy preference, Republicans would no longer be a national party.

So Republicans don't run on policy. They run on lies and demagoguery.

I don't know exactly how things work in the US (I assume similar to the UK) but don't you vote for a party and a policy rather than a person? I'm sure there are many Republicans who think Trump is an incompetent oaf. As well as there has to be a lot of Democrats who think the same about Biden.

Voting for the Republicans isn't the same, or shouldn't be the same, as voting for Trump.

In the US, you vote for people, not parties. Sinema would have been ejected from the Senate under UK rules.

This is in part the fault of our founders. George Washington in particular hated political parties, though he ended up more or less a Federalist by the time his presidency ended.

What is happening now is that we are effectively in a cold civil war. One party runs on "Government doesn't work, elect us and we'll prove it!" and the other party has allowed the first to take near complete control of the narrative.

Or maybe the US voters have finally seen his true colours and will actually vote for a better option.....


Oh wait.. there are none.


Never mind then...


Cue the agony of this shit yet again.

If by 'none' you mean just about everyone.

Personally, there isn't anyone I'd want in the presidency right now besides Biden. No one in the world has his experience.

[greenknight]

Avccording to CNN (two hours ago in this live blog) Republicans are one seat short of a majority in the House, but there are thirteen House races that are still uncalled, and some of them might take a full month to decide. Does this actually mean that the House is out of session until shortly before Christmas, or will the old distribution of seats carry on until sometime before Christmas or just after New Year?

Congressional terms last until January 2nd, as the new term starts on January 3rd, just as presidential terms last until January 19th. Lynn Cheney, for example, is still the Representative from Wyoming until after the New Year. Whether the houses meet in the interim is the business of the houses.

[ElvenKitten]

Personally, there isn't anyone I'd want in the presidency right now besides Biden. No one in the world has his experience.

Yeah no one has sniffed that much hair.
But seriously the only one on earth more corrupt than Biden is Trump.
Not really sure why you'd still want Biden but I've mostly only heard bad things.

[Oniya]

Yeah no one has sniffed that much hair.
But seriously the only one on earth more corrupt than Biden is Trump.
Not really sure why you'd still want Biden but I've mostly only heard bad things.

I'd say the guys from that FTX crypto group are probably right up there.

[Oniya]

Actually, no - I'm not going to leave that with a throwaway quip.  That is such a sweeping statement that I really would like to know what has brought you to the conclusion that 'the only one on earth more corrupt than Biden is Trump'.  Sources, please.

[ElvenKitten]

Was an exaggeration mostly...funny that the FTX crypto guy was a major Dem donor.   ::)

[Vekseid]

Yeah no one has sniffed that much hair.

I'm sure the first image that comes to mind for you is kissing his granddaughter's hair at his son's funeral.

Dude's son died of brain cancer. He's lost three members of his family to tragedy.

I certainly appreciate the level of compassion you show for his grief.

But seriously the only one on earth more corrupt than Biden is Trump.
Not really sure why you'd still want Biden but I've mostly only heard bad things.

Because you are so far into you own media bubble you haven't actually been paying attention, but instead are living in someone else's constructed reality.

[ElvenKitten]

I'm sure the first image that comes to mind for you is kissing his granddaughter's hair at his son's funeral.



I certainly appreciate the level of compassion you show for his grief.

There's been so other many occurances at different times it became a meme. If it happened once fine but if you can make compilation video. Oh I watch news from a number of sources on both sides. None of them are Fox News or InfoWars FYI.