Boycotting Mass Effect Andromeda?

[Prosak]

Ok so as much as I love bioware..... I can't for the life of me understand how the man above still has his job. His name is Manvere Heir. Now I don't have a problem with him being on the left or anything but, to be honest he is rather racist. Now Becouse of this racism many have called for a boycot of ME Andromeda. My question is should we? The boycotted are afraid his poloitical views will bleed into the game but really he is just a designer I believe, so I don't share that view.

Edit: Not that I want him fired. I don't call for people's livelihoods being taken away over their freedom of speech. I'm just surprised he is not fired. At least for the image it gives ea and bioware.



However on the other hand people are boycotting it Becouse they think the staff in general is letting political opinions effect the game. in Inquisition Bioware did go from having a good diverse cast of characters like in previous games to having well, Token characters like Krem. Who wear their lgbt status on their sleeve rather then it being a part of their character. At first I thought Krem was cool, is he a she? A he? You couldn't tell by just looking or listening to his voice, you had to start actually paying attention to the character and you would know. But then.... "Are you a man?" the second I had that option in the dialogue wheel Bioware lost me. Krem at that point, as I said, wore his lgbt status on his sleeve and was used in another conversation to push in "we must be accepting of lgbt communities." which only further tokenized krem. There never even needed to be a conversation about Krem being transgendered. Never even needed to be mentioned, just let Krem be krem. It is a fantasy action adventure story your gamers don't need patronizing hamfisted lessons on acceptance on something more or less all of them agree to accept already. So with my critique I've always had on krem in mind, yes, they are kind of letting some political stances give way to tokenism rather then diversity. which is sad. But is this a reason to withold money and not purchase the game? I know I'm buying it Becouse I'm a dirty fan boy! (Yaaa.. I'm totally part of the problem am I?). I love the diverse casts of bioware games, the stories, the relationships, the feels! But, I will confess that I am slightly worried that this kind of tokenism will continue, especially with EA breathing down their neck for more quantity over quality. Make it open world even though it doesn't need to be that! Grab more mmo tropes gamers love that even in their single player experience right? Waist manpower and creative energy on multiplayer, there needs to be multiplayer so we can get all those microtransactions. I think ea alone is a good enough reason to boycot, especially as they more then likely drain the creativity out of biowares staff from cutting content over time constraints, forced mechanics and modes, to cutting more content for dlc. And we all know that this is happening, we all know it is also terrible work conditions. Becouse it is Ea after all, hahahaha...ha... Ya ea sucks. But I thought I'd see what everyone else thinks since I just found out about all this today.
Edit; Put it this way for Krem; the only time I want a video game to ask someone if they are a boy or a girl is if I'm playing pokemon. Not to be an option for my character to say, as that is just not right. Really, Who just asks a trans if they are a man? Who just asks a trans you barely know when they knew they were a man? Really? Lol. Sorry I just can't help But critique what they did with krem.

[backlash84]

Meh, for all I know the guy who makes my subway sandwich is a racist homophobic piece of shit... doesn't mean I'm not going to eat subway anymore.

The only way I'd be concerned is if he was involved in the story writing process, which correct me if I'm wrong, I don't believe he is. The people who did write the story, the GOOD people who worked on this game shouldn't be punished because someone on their team is an asshole. Hell, we all have to work with assholes some times, many of them our bosses. Doesn't mean he can't be useful in some situations, I just wouldn't hang out with him at a bar.

I'd say if you want to boycott, your energy would be better spent, and more effective, speaking out against people like this in your own way, be it by writing about it, debating online, or just focus on supporting the people who you believe are fighting the good fight.

[Lustful Bride]

... Well the guy is a racist asshole, but I think its alittle unfair to boycott a game made by hundreds of people. Its punishing them for the actions of one guy among them. There is no law against being a racist so he is free to spout his bigotry all he likes. But should be reminded constantly, that hes a racist, bigot, and wrong :P

I'm with Backlash84. Just point your anger towards the guy saying this stuff rather than the company as a whole. Stand with the people who do good, No need to throw everyone in one box just because they have to associate with someone. That's ironically doing the same kind of one sided bigotry that guy is doing. :P

[Blythe]

However on the other hand people are boycotting it Becouse they think the staff in general is letting political opinions effect the game. in Inquisition Bioware did go from having a good diverse cast of characters like in previous games to having well, Token characters like Krem. Who wear their lgbt status on their sleeve rather then it being a part of their character. At first I thought Krem was cool, is he a she? A he? You couldn't tell by just looking or listening to his voice, you had to start actually paying attention to the character and you would know. But then.... "Are you a man?" the second I had that option in the dialogue wheel Bioware lost me. Krem at that point, as I said, wore his lgbt status on his sleeve and was used in another conversation to push in "we must be accepting of lgbt communities." which only further tokenized krem. There never even needed to be a conversation about Krem being transgendered. Never even needed to be mentioned, just let Krem be krem. It is a fantasy action adventure story your gamers don't need patronizing hamfisted lessons on acceptance on something more or less all of them agree to accept already. So with my critique I've always had on krem in mind, yes, they are kind of letting some political stances give way to tokenism rather then diversity. which is sad.

Really, Who just asks a trans if they are a man? Who just asks a trans you barely know when they knew they were a man? Really? Lol. Sorry I just can't help But critique what they did with krem.

So let's look at the definition of tokenism.

With that definition in mind, I disagree with you. Tokenism means the inclusion is only a symbolic effort. I don't think it was. Krem's connection to Iron Bull, his stance as a merc--good things. He's not just a trans character. Krem's inclusion added lore to the game; it opened up a new facet of Qunari culture regarding gender roles (things that could affect cisgender characters too in a major way, if you read carefully!). Yes, the convo that he's trans gets brought up, but just because that gets mentioned doesn't automatically relegate Krem to being a token trans character. He's trans second, Iron Bull's friend and merc first.

No, Krem's not a major character, but I was okay with that. Krem's inclusion represented diversity. Personally, as someone trans, the question of 'are you a man?' is an actual question transmen are asked frequently in real life, even by our allies. The question made sense in the context of the game and for the context of real life. What I would have wanted was a bit more development in general for Krem, fleshing him out a bit more, but I wasn't unhappy with his inclusion.

Trust me. If they wanted realism, they should have had the Inquisitor ask Krem if he has a penis.

I'm not shitting you. Transmen get asked about their genitals. (Actually, a lot of trans people get asked about their genitals, but I'm focusing on transmen since that's the focus of this convo)

They will get asked this by complete strangers, they will get asked that in public, if a stranger suspects they are transgender. Or even thinks they don't present strongly enough as one gender or another. So no, the question the Inquisitor asked isn't unrealistic. I actually have to put up with those sorts of questions from people. It's happened often enough to where I'm desensitized to it. Kind of messed up, huh? :/

Anyways, that being said? Manveer Heir, with those tweets, is not helping his cause for diversity. Behaving that way will alienate more people than it pulls in (that cup he's drinking from is freakin' crass and tasteless). Many people want to think that tone of argument doesn't matter...but it does. It's not enough to talk about diversity--the tone in which that conversation is had is important. Civility matters (frankly, it's why it's one of E's rules)

Manveer's tone is a crap one, yeah. If you or others opt to not play Andromeda because of him, that's your choice. Personally, I still have yet to beat ME3, so no Andromeda for me until I do that.

I think ea alone is a good enough reason to boycot, especially as they more then likely drain the creativity out of biowares staff from cutting content over time constraints, forced mechanics and modes, to cutting more content for dlc. And we all know that this is happening, we all know it is also terrible work conditions. Becouse it is Ea after all, hahahaha...ha... Ya ea sucks.

Much better reason to boybott. If you're going to boycott, do it because you think the quality is bad, because you don't like their practices, because the work conditions are bad.

[ThePrince]

I don't know what the free speech laws or ideas are like in Canada. But in the USA you are free to speak your mind and if people disagree they may speak their disagreement or vote with their wallet. So boycotting ME: Andromeda is perfectly acceptable if that's what you want to do.

The problem is that he states on his Twitter that he works for Bioware. So when he says these hurtful things it comes off as an opinion from a Bioware representative or at the very least Bioware is tolerant of his views.

It doesn't matter what department he works in, video games are made by a team and he is a part of that team. I probably am going to skip ME: Andromeda now just because that game is going to remind me of this person.

[backlash84]

I don't know what the free speech laws or ideas are like in Canada. But in the USA you are free to speak your mind and if people disagree they may speak their disagreement or vote with their wallet. So boycotting ME: Andromeda is perfectly acceptable if that's what you want to do.

The problem is that he states on his Twitter that he works for Bioware. So when he says these hurtful things it comes off as an opinion from a Bioware representative or at the very least Bioware is tolerant of his views.

It doesn't matter what department he works in, video games are made by a team and he is a part of that team. I probably am going to skip ME: Andromeda now just because that game is going to remind me of this person.

Freedom of speech isn't really being argued here, or freedom of expression. Of course people have the right to boycott the game if they so wish, but the question was whether or not people believe it is the right decision to do so.

Considering the size of a development team on any given big budget game, you are bound to have a racist somewhere in that group, even if they aren't vocal about it on social media like this man was. Firing him for something like stating his opinion online would basically be saying he should be penalized for his right to free speech, which seems to be something you are rather for.

[Oniya]

Staff has split off the derailment of the original topic.  Feel free to civilly discuss whether or not ME:Andromeda should be boycotted here.

[CopperLily]

Meh?

[Suiko]

I'm not buying it because it looks abysmal and after the slap in the face that was 3, it'll take a lot to get me back into the series.

This guy being a racist asshole is just that. I don't think it'll impact the game, but like I said, ME hasn't been good since 2.

[Braioch]

I'm not buying it because it looks abysmal and after the slap in the face that was 3, it'll take a lot to get me back into the series.

This guy being a racist asshole is just that. I don't think it'll impact the game, but like I said, ME hasn't been good since 2.

Agreed on the first part of the second line (I loved 3 :P)

If we let every person with a questionable line of thinking prevent us from buying something, we'd be without a great deal of things.

[NinjaWeazel]

I'm just sad this racist prick is wearing a shirt from one of my favorite groups.

[AmberStarfire]

I'm not going to play it at this time because I still have a prior Mass Effect game to play that's still in cellophane, but I'm not going to boycott a game made by a company because of one idiot who works (or worked) for them.

It's up to the company to fire/discipline him (if they haven't already, and I'd say it's likely they have) for his actions. Computer games are a group effort (a very, VERY large group for games of this scale). I've worked in the industry and I'm not the only person I know who has. Most people are just doing their jobs the same as anywhere else. One person... is just one person.

[Suiko]

Agreed on the first part of the second line (I loved 3 :P)

If we let every person with a questionable line of thinking prevent us from buying something, we'd be without a great deal of things.

I could fight you on point one...

But I like you, so I won't ;)

[CopperLily]

This guy being a racist asshole is just that. I don't think it'll impact the game, but like I said, ME hasn't been good since 2.

I'd change this to "ME hasn't been good since the last 30 minutes of 3", which was up to that point a marvelous game in my eyes. I was playing a little behind everyone and was shocked at the negativity, because I was having a blast.

Then I got it.

But I'm willing to give it another shot.

[Suiko]

The game stuff I've seen so far doesn't look good. The animations are horrible even for Bioware <<;

[Prosak]

 :o Oh dear, been a while since I got on and now I have quite a bit to respond to. Sorry for the text wall!

Backlash/Lustfull: Yes for all you know. Buuuut, if you did know the guy who makes your subway is a racist peice of dirt, would you care enough to say something to some one? I work at Subway part time right now, I know if some one I worked with was openly racist in a way that made the store look bad id tell my boss. It is a persons livelihood, just like EA needs to make a proffit on Andromeda. Which makes this come full circle to: Why is he not fired yet! A company's image is crucial to sales. A company paying no mind to the extreme views of even a single employee is very much wrong and not good for public image. (Just look at the boycotts going on now. Just because he is racist towards white people doesn't mean he is any less wrong. Unless it is people who believe racism is privilege + power in which case, god help them. lol.) No matter how much you say 'meh' to yourself, somewhere deep down the thought actually does urk you away from supporting the game, even at the expense of good honest workers. Know what I mean?

Blyth: Your probably right about the Token part, my main criticism is the fact they hamfisted a scene in their for acceptance and did it all in a unnatural way. It is not only rude but down right ignorant to think it is ok to just walk up to a obviously trans person and ask "Are you a man?" And then proceed later on to ask one you barely even had one drink with "When did you know you were a man?"  I... It's... Just...Ah! Not acceptable! lol.

On every one about 3: In defense of ME 3, it really was a good game. The endings weren't thaaaat bad in the grand scheme of things, even before the free dlc. (No one says Deus Ex was a bad game, and that had pretty much the same drill as ME 3's endings. In fact a lot of people used the original Deus Ex as a reference when complaining.) We only got pissed because we were promised more and didn't get it.


The Prince: Seeing as it is now illegal to get a persons gender pronouns wrong id say free speech has taken a turn for the worse in Canada. Lol, kidding aside my question was not about the free speech of the matter, as that was never put into question really. We all know we have the free speech to be a racist dick, free speech to  boycot, etc. It was wether or not the reasons for Boycotting the game is grounded in any real merit. However, you are exactly right about your second line, and hit my point home:

The problem is that he states on his Twitter that he works for Bioware. So when he says these hurtful things it comes off as an opinion from a Bioware representative or at the very least Bioware is tolerant of his views.

It does give a tolerant impression from both Bioware and EA and as I said a company's image is EVERYTHING, especially in a free market. So why have they not said anything? Unless to at least some degree, people in bioware and EA share in this far far left, white hating bigotry.

If we let every person with a questionable line of thinking prevent us from buying something, we'd be without a great deal of things.

This is partly true: If you dont know some one is racist though, is only when you shouldn't let it bother you. If you don't know, why be concerned with their ideological opinions? But, aye, there's the rub. If you do know; Then deep down you know for a fact, it truly does bother you somewhere, if at least the tiniest bit, that your supporting openly apprehensive behavior. And if only Bioware fired him? If they cared enough about their public image to can him, you wouldn't have to feel any amount of guilt for supporting the product. Which is why company's should concern their selves with public image. He wouldnt be fired for being racist, but rather effecting the Company's image IE ability to produce sales. Does that make sense at all?

AmberStarfire: Unfortunately: The man is still under their employ. lol. But, it is not entirely limited to one person as a further look into Bioware has shown their most recent employer reviews are not to good. Few people being fired or switched to other EA teams due to differences in opinion. Some complain about crudeness towards them at work because of a different ideological view, however for the most part the complaint is being fired for not being yes men at work and actually caring about the quality of the product.

[rekhaiyer]

So, my brother just shared the launch trailer for this game with me. We played all three games together. Like, he used to handle all the action and and chose the dialogue options I told him to choose. Only real game I have 'played', I think. So, yeah I guess I am excited. Here's hoping we play this together sometime too.

[DominantPoet]

I'd be very curious to see how this guy interacts with anyone who is white that he works with. I only heard about this guy earlier today due to an article describing his antics on Twitter and what not, which apparently have been going on for several years now.

I wouldn't boycott the game, were I interested in playing it at all. Which I'm not, I never played the first 3, I won't be playing this one. But for a series I do love playing, like say the Tales of series, a dev doing this very thing from them wouldn't hinder my decision to play the game(s) at all. Especially given he has no involvement in the story.

Having said that, the guy comes off as a complete ass hat and just not someone I'd want to be around in general, even if I weren't white. He clearly has a lot of animosity and anger, and his general personality, at least on Twitter, is that of an internet troll. The concept of people, regardless of their skin color, being human beings is completely lost on him.

It also does not set a good precedence that this stuff is seen as acceptable or fine, or that he's seemingly not being reprimanded for this, at all, by his employers. Excusing hate, for any reason, just causes it to linger, breed, and grow more intense.

[Noisekick]

I will just leave this here. https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2017/03/14/mass-effect-andromeda-review-opening-hours/

[Suiko]

I'm staggered by how awful the animations are - characters walk so strangely and the facialnexpressions are ridiculous.

It's a shame because I enjoyed the first three (ending of the third nonewithstanding)... But Yeah, this doesn't look good.

[rekhaiyer]

Will probably play this when my brother comes home during the Christmas holidays for nostalgia.