The Alt-Right Isn't Even Pretending Anymore: Part 2

[minioch]

Funny that Donald Trump was a beloved celebrity figure until he decided to run for President with an R beside his name. Calling these people Nazis is just ridiculous. Donald Trump didn't ruin your healthcare, he didn't double your debt, he didn't invite cop killers to the White House, he didn't send the IRS after political enemies, he didn't lie about a video getting your ambassador killed, and on and on. To call these people "white supremacists" is stoking a special kind of hate. Clearly public school and colleges teach people what to think, not how to think. But this is apparently what happens when the half the country that pays the bills gets tired of the lazy half's mooching. And sorry, but the US is the only country you can just roll into and have people standing there to sign you up for welfare. I pay 25% of what I make in taxes with nothing to show for it, except some stupid socialist policy, and like many other Americans, I'm sick of it. It's not my job to take care of you. But I guess that's being racist, homophobic and xenophobic.

And let's be clear, Trump NEVER said anything racist. That's an outright lie, because that's all the left can do - running on their so-called great ideas doesn't work, so they have to make it all about how "terrible" things will be if they don't win. That's what happens when you think your feelings are the truth, instead of standing by logic and what makes sense. The world isn't "fair", and it never has been. People who work hard and try are usually the ones who succeed. If you stand there all day with your hand held out, chances are all that ever happens is people will shit in it.

Be realistic in your thinking. Everything will be fine. It's not like he's going to do more damage than the biggest failure in American history, the affirmative action president himself, King Putt. So stop acting like a guy qualified to do nothing that wasn't propped up by taxpayer dollars, and had no personal success on his own is somehow infinitely better than a successful businessman who knows what he's doing. Yes, I know, some of his companies went bankrupt, blah blah. We're talking a few out of a hundred. That makes the other 95 or so successes.

It's almost to the point now where calling someone a racist is laughable and has no effect at all - it's just the common response to the inability to win a common sense debate. If you can't win with intellect, just call them a name no one wants to be called.

I'd be far more ashamed of needing hot chocolate and coloring books because my candidate didn't win than I would ever be of being called something untrue. But, then again, I'm a responsible adult who pays all his own bills, supports his family, and made wise decisions in life, and grew up during a time when the world didn't suck, so what do I know.

[TheGlyphstone]

I get being partisan and happy that your side won, but if you really believe that Donald Trump has never said anything racist, you're either using a definition of 'racist' that won't be found in any English dictionary, or else deluding yourself to a truly superhuman degree...

[Blythe]

Funny that Donald Trump was a beloved celebrity figure until he decided to run for President with an R beside his name. Calling these people Nazis is just ridiculous. Donald Trump didn't ruin your healthcare, he didn't double your debt, he didn't invite cop killers to the White House, he didn't send the IRS after political enemies, he didn't lie about a video getting your ambassador killed, and on and on. To call these people "white supremacists" is stoking a special kind of hate.

Not everyone liked him before he ran for President. I've always disliked the man, frankly. And I would have disliked Donald Trump regardless of what party he decided to run as part of.

One of the people he appointed to his cabinet, Bannon? Yeah, that guy? He's racist. No amount of claiming he's not will make him not be one. Bannon is outright anti-semitic, for one. And he's had some other pretty questionable behavior. Trump's blatantly said some pretty racist things, too.

Just as it's harmful to throw out the word 'racism' when it's not needed, as it poisons discussion, it's just as harmful to refuse to acknowledge it when it is relevant and true.

Whatever problems you have with Obama's presidency, those problems don't excuse Trump's problems. Any issues you have with Obama do not negate Trump's own issues.

To be fair to Donald Trump, he's still probably not the most abominable president we've ever had. Lyndon B. Johnson would literally whip his dick out whenever he got a chance to in public. His infamous moment when asked off the record by reporters why America was in Vietnam was to whip out his dick and say, "This is why!"

Whenever I feel depressed about Trump, I frankly remind myself that once upon a time, Lyndon B. Johnson was president. And the USA survived.  -_-

[TheGlyphstone]

Funny, I think something very similar when pondering a hypothetical Hillary Clinton presidency, only it's a comparison to Richard Nixon, the most infamously crooked president we've had.

[Lucetta]

Ah, the infinite struggle between maintaining the integrity of The Constitution of the United States of America and amending it into something else entirely leads invariably towards a weighing and judging of personal characters. Sometimes I wish I was allowed a seat at the adult table, but I'm just a social minority supporter of an ignored political party that wants a sort of compromise that so few care to even hear much less try to understand.

Honestly, I'm worried about transgender issues and preparing for the worst by rushing my name and gender marker change. But can't we all at least give hoping for the best a try? Trump is historically a supporter of many liberal ideals. It's why the establishment right hated him so much and even demonized him, themselves. By all means, do prepare for the worst with me. But please consider the less stressful path of hoping things work out in the end.

I never trusted G.W. Bush, Obama or the Clintons because they are all associated with George Soros. Hell, G.W. Bush actually has circumstantial connections to the J.F. Kennedy assassination. I'm really hoping and praying to my Goddess that Trump does literally anything but buddy up with that diabolical, nation-toppling, genocidal megalomaniac that is Soros. That G.W. Bush isn't a close friend of his. That he can actually give us the societal and fiscal responsibility we've needed badly from a leader for the past two decades.

[Blythe]

Funny, I think something very similar when pondering a hypothetical Hillary Clinton presidency, only it's a comparison to Richard Nixon, the most infamously crooked president we've had.

The level of public scandal's certainly approaching a similar fervor if one compares the two. *nod*

But can't we all at least give hoping for the best a try?

I generally try to find a balance. That balance is in criticizing and fighting against things that I feel are harmful, but at the same time, I also find that it's important not to succumb to hyperbole or fear. The USA is a nation of activity and change, more often than not, and when things are bad, I can always remind myself that things aren't likely to remain that way. While I myself am feeling a little despondent, I also have to remind myself that I've felt that way since Sanders didn't take the Democratic primary, and I try to remember not to let too much of that overtone sink in to how I view things now.

While I don't like Trump, I also acknowledge my opinion of him may evolve over time depending on how he handles his presidency.

Mostly, his presidency doesn't worry me nearly as much as the Republican-controlled House and Senate. I tend to worry when there's a stark party imbalance of any kind; I feel like it's a harder thing to fix.

I guess in my own rambling way, I'm saying that I'm giving hope a try, although in my case, it's balancing that hope with being able to address things that bother or concern me.

You make pretty good points on the right demonizing Trump as well; I do have to wonder how well he'll work with the current House and Senate after all.

[Skynet]

I never trusted G.W. Bush, Obama or the Clintons because they are all associated with George Soros. Hell, G.W. Bush actually has circumstantial connections to the J.F. Kennedy assassination. I'm really hoping and praying to my Goddess that Trump does literally anything but buddy up with that diabolical, nation-toppling, genocidal megalomaniac that is Soros. That G.W. Bush isn't a close friend of his. That he can actually give us the societal and fiscal responsibility we've needed badly from a leader for the past two decades.

Source for this claim? The most I've seen is a conspiracy theory that Soros collaborated with the Nazis, although those very same sources often come from far-right groups who themselves aren't exactly stellar examples in regards to racial egalitarianism and minority rights.

[Lucetta]

The level of public scandal's certainly approaching a similar fervor if one compares the two. *nod*

People who work against Hillary have a history of dying under mysterious circumstances, and the long list of investigations against her since 1993 seem to be more than a convenient coincidence. The DNC Primaries Scandal was icing on the bitter cake of Hillary doubt. Had she won the primaries more legitimately, things might have been different but with the same justified skeptics still in play.

I guess in my own rambling way, I'm saying that I'm giving hope a try, although in my case, it's balancing that hope with being able to address things that bother or concern me.

You make pretty good points on the right demonizing Trump as well; I do have to wonder how well he'll work with the current House and Senate after all.

Yeah, it's important to the electoral process that we remain skeptical and address concerns. I'm very aware of the possibility of Trump's unstable personal life interfering with his job... And uncertain how he intends to treat the more harmless immigrants who just want freedom and to make a living in a country that isn't as war torn as their homeland.

As for the Senate and House majorities cooperating with him... Begrudgingly at first, to say the least. I really hope he can appeal to the majority of both larger political parties by having good plans to back his better ideas. What we need now is unity after bitter decades of division.

Source for this claim? The most I've seen is a conspiracy theory that Soros collaborated with the Nazis, although those very same sources often come from far-right groups who themselves aren't exactly stellar examples in regards to racial egalitarianism and minority rights.

To say that he was literally a Nazi is a ridiculous notion that points out how incapable of simple math spin doctors expect the general public to be. He would be more likely to have been associated with the Kingdom of Hungary if he had anything to do with the Axis powers of that age. Considering he was born in the Summer of 1930 and Budapest surrendered in early 1945, I sincerely doubt that he was even involved. He could only have been what... Fourteen years old at the most? At worst, he could only have been indoctrinated at such a tender age.

My grandmother and I are moderates but acknowledge convenient circumstances. Soros has been very involved in things that escalate quickly time and time again. He would either have to be very naive or simply evil at this point in his lengthy career. The smear campaigns are out of hand and jump to the wildest conclusions, but I'm wise enough to know that his money and his attentions have been invested in projects that have caused a lot of division, conflict and deaths. He has convinced America's politicians to send brave men and women off to war for his own gain and I'm not overly fond of him for that.

[Blythe]

People who work against Hillary have a history of dying under mysterious circumstances, and the long list of investigations against her since 1993 seem to be more than a convenient coincidence. The DNC Primaries Scandal was icing on the bitter cake of Hillary doubt. Had she won the primaries more legitimately, things might have been different but with the same justified skeptics still in play.

Healthy skepticism is good, but if you're referring to what I think you're referring to from 1993, just as an example here, the theory that the Clintons were involved in foul play regarding Vince Foster's death is generally accepted as a conspiracy theory rather than anything based in fact. I haven't yet seen anything substantive backing that viewpoint up. Mysterious or not, I prefer facts over supposition. I generally am not fond of conspiracy theories; they are all too often used to exacerbate hyperbole and fear.

That being said, the DNC scandal you refer to is definitely a known fact, given the trove of leaked e-mails and Debbie Schultz stepping down. That particular bit of shade-throwing and favoritism was a particularly hard hit to my faith in the USA's political process. But again, I was a Sanders supporter, so that hit particularly hard for me.

Anyways, I've probably talked too much on politics today as-is. I best bow out for a little bit. Thank you (and others!) for chatting with me. Always a pleasure to engage in dialogue and debate! :-)

[Cassandra LeMay]

One problem with the numerous investigations of the Clintons is that some people might believe that they did something wrong, simply because they were investigated. Once you start thinking "there was an investigation, therefore something must have been wrong" the next thought that can easily follow is "But if there was something wrong, lets investigate them some more." Which leads to an investigation that turns up no smoking gun, but again creates the impression "if they have been investigated, there must have been something wrong".  Which in turn leads to...

Investigate people long enough and often enough and the presumption of innocence dies by the wayside - if it ever existed.

[TheGlyphstone]

Just like the presumption that only guilty people want a lawyer when talking to the police, perpetuated by every cop show ever.

[CopperLily]

Just like the presumption that only guilty people want a lawyer when talking to the police, perpetuated by every cop show ever.

Or indeed that if you're arrested at all, odds are you did something.

[Doomblade403xxx]

I am curious...have any of you ever met a white supremist?

[Darkcide]

I am curious...have any of you ever met a white supremist?

Yes, several actually. Especially when I used to live in Vegas.

[Cassandra LeMay]

I am curious...have any of you ever met a white supremist?

How would I know? They don't all run around in jackboots and with shaven heads, shouting "Sieg Heil".  Could be I met none in my life, could be I met dozens and they just didn't spell it out to me.

But I certainly do know a few people who are ready and willing to believe about anything you tell them, as long as it is "anti-establishment", including some who also seem ready to blame foreigners for everything they believe is going wrong in our country. Where that ends and "white supremacy" begins is an open question in my book. The "Alt Right" is certainly more than jackbooted skinheads. To reduce the matter to the latter strikes me as ignoring a large part of the more "intellectual" right extremists.

[Shekinah]

I am curious...have any of you ever met a white supremist?

Let's see does this count as meeting one:

Hidden for offensive language

You filthy yellow skinned whore! The only thing you and your kind are useful for is being living calculators and lying on your back to be used as the filthy whores that you are! Now you only get in our way, steal our jobs, our money and our homes! So why don't you shut up or I'll knock those teeth out of your mouth! Not that you'll need them anyway! After all they do say that whores without teeth give out of this world! So I would make your job even easier for you! Thus you should even thank me if I do that as I would be helping you out Ching Chong!

Cause if that does, I probably can say that at least once a month I come across a white supremacist

[Mithlomwen]

Let's see does this count as meeting one:

Hidden for offensive language

You filthy yellow skinned whore! The only thing you and your kind are useful for is being living calculators and lying on your back to be used as the filthy whores that you are! Now you only get in our way, steal our jobs, our money and our homes! So why don't you shut up or I'll knock those teeth out of your mouth! Not that you'll need them anyway! After all they do say that whores without teeth give out of this world! So I would make your job even easier for you! Thus you should even thank me if I do that as I would be helping you out Ching Chong!

Cause if that does, I probably can say that at least once a month I come across a white supremacist

Ye gods.....that's horrible!  :-\  I'm so sorry you have to deal with that. 

[Cassandra LeMay]

Let's see does this count as meeting one:

Hidden for offensive language

You filthy yellow skinned whore! The only thing you and your kind are useful for is being living calculators and lying on your back to be used as the filthy whores that you are! Now you only get in our way, steal our jobs, our money and our homes! So why don't you shut up or I'll knock those teeth out of your mouth! Not that you'll need them anyway! After all they do say that whores without teeth give out of this world! So I would make your job even easier for you! Thus you should even thank me if I do that as I would be helping you out Ching Chong!

Cause if that does, I probably can say that at least once a month I come across a white supremacist

Words fail me. Offering a hug seems all too inadequate, but the alternative would be offering some actions that might land me in prison, so I guess that's the best I can do.

[Shekinah]

Ye gods.....that's horrible!  :-\  I'm so sorry you have to deal with that. 

Words fail me. Offering a hug seems all too inadequate, but the alternative would be offering some actions that might land me in prison, so I guess that's the best I can do.

Thanks both for your kind words.
And well sad truth is, you learn how to ignore them and not let them get to you. After all they don't know any better and usually are to drunk to even remember what they said the next day.
Though off course like you Cass, I also have had those thoughts but yeah going to prison for them isn't worth it. :)

[HairyHeretic]

Sorry to hear you have to deal with such assholes.

[Lustful Bride]

I am curious...have any of you ever met a white supremist?

In person no (though I did encounter a Latino supremacist that made me want to projectile vomit) but Jesus every time you go online (to a lot of websites) it doesn't take long to find one, it also doesn't take long to find one on the opposite end of whatever racial spectrum there is. I've seen supremacists from Native Americans bashing whites, White Supremacists bashing everybody, black supremacists bashing everyone, and etc etc. and just bleh it knocked my faith in humanity down so bad I ended up feeling almost depressed for a few days. (This was long before I encountered E and was still young. I had no idea people could be so cruel to each other. How I almost miss being so naïve.)

They all tend to spout the same bull and rhetoric just swapping out the words. Some days its fun just watching the extremists from all sides get trapped in a youtube argument, and other days it makes me wish I hadn't made a personal vow never to drink alcohol.

Thankfully E is the most tolerant place I have ever seen. Full of so many intelligent and wonderful people that remind me the species is not doomed...just really messed up :P

Let's see does this count as meeting one:

Hidden for offensive language

You filthy yellow skinned whore! The only thing you and your kind are useful for is being living calculators and lying on your back to be used as the filthy whores that you are! Now you only get in our way, steal our jobs, our money and our homes! So why don't you shut up or I'll knock those teeth out of your mouth! Not that you'll need them anyway! After all they do say that whores without teeth give out of this world! So I would make your job even easier for you! Thus you should even thank me if I do that as I would be helping you out Ching Chong!

Cause if that does, I probably can say that at least once a month I come across a white supremacist

Jesus Christ @_@ The stick up that guy's ass must be the size of the Empire State Building, maybe larger.

Its also more well written/worded than what you usually find among those types. Which does not bode all that well.

*hugs* sorry you have to deal with that. No person on Earth should have to suffer such harshness.

[Doomblade403xxx]

I have a friend who is more a brother to me than my own siblings ever were. We met at a job in my youth and just hit it off. We liked rpgs, guns, and had alot of shared interests. One night we were going to play D&D at his house which is wayyyyy out in the sticks. He's working later than I and was 'go on out and chill, I think everyone is showing up a little later.' I needed to suss out some stuff with my character so i went.

I was sitting there reading a book and his dad walks in. It was tense and this dude lived on the other end of the state so i had never met him, and even though I could tell he hated me from the second he laid eyes on me, I still offered to help him unload some stuff out of his truck. Long story short I was the Mudface mutt his son was hanging around with. {yeah derrogatory for native americans which btw he judged by my brown eyes}

So lemme break this down for you...the guy from Breitbart got alot of hate because brietbart is supposed to be THE news source for white power organizations....well that guy hired milo yiannopoulous to do news....by his own definition a 'gay jew'. if you ever met a bigot or someone from one of these militant white power organizations you would know that is a sin against god and a case of heresy against your own race.

in short maybe folks should stop trying to douse fires that aren't burning.

[Cassandra LeMay]

So lemme break this down for you...the guy from Breitbart got alot of hate because brietbart is supposed to be THE news source for white power organizations....well that guy hired milo yiannopoulous to do news....by his own definition a 'gay jew'. if you ever met a bigot or someone from one of these militant white power organizations you would know that is a sin against god and a case of heresy against your own race.

The "alt right" is a bit more wide spread than just Neo-Nazi Jew-Bashing. The 'movement', if you will call it that, is diverse and some parts of it are perfectly okay with Jews, as long as they have a fairly light skin color. Yes, there is a small gay segment in the Alt-Right, but at least some of them are not just gay, they are also racist/islamophobic, seeing "sharia" as a larger threat than anything else.

At the risk of repeating myself, you do seem to reduce the alt right to openly racist white power groups, and that is not what it is. Neo Nazis and right wing extremists have evolved far beyond jackbooted, shaven-headed, stormtroopers. The matter is a little more complicated than you seem to imply.

What I can't figure out yet is if you are just trying to bait us by posting things that lead up to the "conclusion" you seem to have been aiming for, or if you have just a narrow definition of the "alt right" you are working with here.

EDIT:
SPLC article on the courting of the LGBT community by the far right https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2016/08/18/some-white-nationalists-continue-court-lgbt-community
Rolling Stone article from the time of the Republican convention last year http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/inside-rncs-hottest-ticket-the-big-gay-islamophobia-party-w429967

[Blythe]

So lemme break this down for you...the guy from Breitbart got alot of hate because brietbart is supposed to be THE news source for white power organizations....well that guy hired milo yiannopoulous to do news....by his own definition a 'gay jew'. if you ever met a bigot or someone from one of these militant white power organizations you would know that is a sin against god and a case of heresy against your own race.

in short maybe folks should stop trying to douse fires that aren't burning.

Breitbart isn't 'the' source for white power groups. But it is a source.

Yiannopoulos is a bigot and fairly widely regarded as a scumbag in the LGBT community, and he's not particularly highly regarded by Jewish folks either. He was, frankly, likely hired on specifically because he's a minority willing to throw other minorities, including minorities he is part of, under the bus very publicly.

He's the person the folks at Breitbart like to trot out to try to justify unjustifiable rhetoric, as if something awful said about a minority group becomes acceptable if a member of that minority says it--as if one member of a minority could speak for their entire group.

Yiannopoulos has engaged in the past in Holocaust denial and has vocally stated he thinks gay people should get back in the closet and that their rights hurt humanity.

In short: being a minority does not make Yiannopoulos immune to poor behavior himself, nor does his presence excuse any inexcusable behavior from those that employ him. Breitbart's hiring of him is not particularly a statement of their acceptance of others or their tolerance, and it doesn't say anything particularly telling about the consumers of Breitbart news in any pleasant way.

[Doomblade403xxx]

Bait? I thought this was open discussion?

There literally is zero tolerance for minorities in true hate groups and i think the whole ALT-RIGHT thing is just a sham. Literally the first thing I heard after the results of the election was that women were going to lose the right to vote, gays were going to be reprogrammed, and immigrants sent to camps. Two of those things are obvious...Kellyanne Conway was the first woman to EVER win their candidate a campaign. If she was a democrat we'd never hear the end of it, but since she works for trump it's ignored. This is a very good thing. Second everyone also glosses over the fact that trump has said the supreme court decision on gay marriage will stand. Again No one should have issues with that, i know i dont. I work in health care and have alot of gay friends and co-workers. Under older laws they could not be covered under their partners health plans...now it's changed and they can. There has been progress and the man has openly said he's not going to filibuster the progress made. I think people just need to calm down and not look at every political advisor under a microscope and try to make them into a newer, sleaker version of hitler, and honestly how many of you could name the members of Obama's cabinet? Why so much scrutiny on who Trump picks? Is it because their really is a problem, or is it because the media likes people stirred up about something?

Alot of people are tired of failed policies and cronies ruling over us from on high. is trump going to save us? No. It's gonna take alot of hard work from alot of Americans in this country to save us. It's gonna take rebuilding our infrastructure. It's gonna take people of all color, religion, and sexual orientation coming together instead of ripping one another down. It's gonna take compromise. If we dont get it, I'll be the first one to say I was wrong, but I sincerely think we as americans were given the choice of two evils and the lesser evil won.