The Site itself

[LamentingQuill]

So are we sticking with simple machines? I have to say, I'm not liking it at all. 

Is this a permanent thing or temporary?

[Lyrical]

So are we sticking with simple machines? I have to say, I'm not liking it at all.

Is this a permanent thing or temporary?

It's always been a Simply Machines forum, this is just a newer version than the old one we were using. Veks had the old one heavily modded, this doesn't have all of his mods added to it.

I don't like the look or function of it much myself but I'm pretty sure that he had to update it for lots of background reasons. (Security, database connections, server side stuffs, I think)

Last I heard he was planning on adding back in some of the old mods like multiple columns, bookmarks, and I'm not sure what else.

I thought I saw an update about it somewhere around here recently from one of the Gods/Goddesses

[Vekseid]

I did buy a Xenforo license for E, but it doesn't properly convert pms and the permissions are far less efficient.  I can fix the former but not the latter. There is also the issue of them leaving the editor in a broken state for months. 

On the other hand,  some smf code is going to be 30 soon. It isn't exactly state of the art. Xenforo is much easier to program for. 

I am interested in people's opinions on the matter. 

[midnightblack]

I am interested in people's opinions on the matter.

Speaking only for myself, but really I'm open to put up with just about any inconvenience in a trade-off for a dark theme (my eyes would appreciate it so very much) and a return of the bookmark function.

[RedPhoenix]

Speaking only for myself, but really I'm open to put up with just about any inconvenience in a trade-off for a dark theme (my eyes would appreciate it so very much) and a return of the bookmark function.

Took the words out of my mouth. Whatever brings bookmarks and themes back would be my vote.

[Lain]

I would be thrilled to have bookmarks back. I can deal with the rest of the newness. A dark theme woulld be appreciated, the old themes never worked for me (always reverted back to the default) so I never used them. 

That's just my two bits...

Thanks Vekseid!

[Lilias]

Firefox has the Dark Reader add-on, which applies a dark theme on everything. Pretty sure Chrome has some equivalent too. I can take or leave the column layout, but bookmarks are the single most useful thing around, and I'd be ecstatic to have them back.

[Geraint]

Having bookmarks back would be a blessing. 

But what I find desperately needed is something that will stop the miles and miles of gibberish generated when a post with any significant amount of BBtext is edited (for any reason).  It has pretty much destroyed half of my OOs thread.

Sometimes the gibberish shows on the on the screen after the edit, sometimes not.  But it slows down page loading significantly, often generating a blue screen and a warning from Firefox.  And it gets worse with any subsequent edits.  If I edit out the gibberish, it comes right back.   

[Lexandria]

Having bookmarks back would be a blessing. 

But what I find desperately needed is something that will stop the miles and miles of gibberish generated when a post with any significant amount of BBtext is edited (for any reason).  It has pretty much destroyed half of my OOs thread.

Sometimes the gibberish shows on the on the screen after the edit, sometimes not.  But it slows down page loading significantly, often generating a blue screen and a warning from Firefox.  And it gets worse with any subsequent edits.  If I edit out the gibberish, it comes right back.   

So a lot of times (not always, because I had some very complicated tables completely destroyed in another thread) this is because of the WYSIWYG editor that was automatically re-activated during the switch over.

In [Look and Layout] --> [Posting] there's a check box to remove the WYSIWYG editor which should hopefully help.

There's still some random stuff that will break the formatting, like the HR code, and it will sometimes try to auto-fill ending tags if there's a typo, but turning off the WYSIWYG editor should help a lot.

[Geraint]

Actually, that was the first thing I looked for since it seemed like a WYSIWYG problem. I have the WYSIYWYG editor turned off by default.

[Lexandria]

Actually, that was the first thing I looked for since it seemed like a WYSIWYG problem. I have the WYSIYWYG editor turned off by default.

Maybe it's doing the thing that happened with my tables then. I have noticed a difference between the quick edit option and the modify function. Sometimes one or the other will just...add stuff out of nowhere.

edit: I double checked: the [modify] function is what really tends to bork it up more than the [quick edit] does for me.

[Geraint]

Maybe it's doing the thing that happened with my tables then. I have noticed a difference between the quick edit option and the modify function. Sometimes one or the other will just...add stuff out of nowhere.

edit: I double checked: the [modify] function is what really tends to bork it up more than the [quick edit] does for me.

Thank you! I'll definitely try that then.  I had some early trouble with quick edit, so stopped using it.  I hopefully that will work, because it took me a week to fix the first page of MY OOs and have eighteen more to go, plus my requests.   

[midnightblack]

Firefox has the Dark Reader add-on, which applies a dark theme on everything. Pretty sure Chrome has some equivalent too.

Blessings to you.

[Amaris]

@Vekseid If you do end up going with the Xenforo option, is there a possibility to still get these functions that we're struggling without (like the bookmarks) in the interim while we wait for that possible switch?

[Wistful Dream]

Maybe it's doing the thing that happened with my tables then. I have noticed a difference between the quick edit option and the modify function. Sometimes one or the other will just...add stuff out of nowhere.

edit: I double checked: the [modify] function is what really tends to bork it up more than the [quick edit] does for me.

That's super useful to know, it's been driving me batty to have the formatting messed up with no clear apparent reason. It keeps adding duplicate fonts and sizes and just frustrating as heck.

[Lyrical]

I did buy a Xenforo license for E, but it doesn't properly convert pms and the permissions are far less efficient.  I can fix the former but not the latter. There is also the issue of them leaving the editor in a broken state for months.

On the other hand,  some smf code is going to be 30 soon. It isn't exactly state of the art. Xenforo is much easier to program for.

I am interested in people's opinions on the matter.

I'm not familiar with Xenforo but thank you for the update. And thank you for all the work you do in the background, I'm sure that maintaining such an enormous forum is sometimes a lot of work.

[Lexandria]

That's super useful to know, it's been driving me batty to have the formatting messed up with no clear apparent reason. It keeps adding duplicate fonts and sizes and just frustrating as heck.

It sucks because there's no preview option for the quick-edits, but it seems to not do the extra tags bit quite as badly.

As an example, on the messed up tables (I still haven't managed to fix; the first one took something like 6 hours) if I use the [modify] option, it adds a ton of space to the top of the tables, so many extra tags all over the place, and makes it really difficult to parse the information to edit or fix anything (which is why I ended up building a new one from scratch). But the [quick edit] doesn't add the space, and usually doesn't add too many extra tags.

I have noticed that when doing new posts, sometimes the preview will not show the extra tags that are going to get added until after it's posted (or sent, if it's a PM), and [quick edit] is the only way to edit the tags back off the post, since [modify] will either add them again or break the post worse.

[Wistful Dream]

It sucks because there's no preview option for the quick-edits, but it seems to not do the extra tags bit quite as badly.

As an example, on the messed up tables (I still haven't managed to fix; the first one took something like 6 hours) if I use the [modify] option, it adds a ton of space to the top of the tables, so many extra tags all over the place, and makes it really difficult to parse the information to edit or fix anything (which is why I ended up building a new one from scratch). But the [quick edit] doesn't add the space, and usually doesn't add too many extra tags.

I have noticed that when doing new posts, sometimes the preview will not show the extra tags that are going to get added until after it's posted (or sent, if it's a PM), and [quick edit] is the only way to edit the tags back off the post, since [modify] will either add them again or break the post worse.

That tracks with my experience too, so at least I'm no longer wondering if I'm going crazy. I've just tried to edit as little as possible and strip away the extra coding where I can. Hopefully it's something easy to fix.

[Geraint]

It sucks because there's no preview option for the quick-edits, but it seems to not do the extra tags bit quite as badly.

As an example, on the messed up tables (I still haven't managed to fix; the first one took something like 6 hours) if I use the [modify] option, it adds a ton of space to the top of the tables, so many extra tags all over the place, and makes it really difficult to parse the information to edit or fix anything (which is why I ended up building a new one from scratch). But the [quick edit] doesn't add the space, and usually doesn't add too many extra tags.

I have noticed that when doing new posts, sometimes the preview will not show the extra tags that are going to get added until after it's posted (or sent, if it's a PM), and [quick edit] is the only way to edit the tags back off the post, since [modify] will either add them again or break the post worse.

I can add something to this.  My experience with the modify function and preview suggests that it isn't modify that is adding the garbage, but rather the Preview button ... meaning that if one doesn't preview but rather just post, the trash often doesn't appear.

This let me to a work around to actually get a clean copy of the first post of my OOs.  I copied that post in a PM to myself then cleared out as much trash as I could, and then send it to myself without previewing at all. (saving a draft before posting is extra insurance)  Then I do it again to get garbage I missed the first time and so forth.  It's not a quick fix but it does eventually give me a clean page with a clean draft behind it.  Then I copy it or the draft out of the PM and post it where it belongs (without previewing). 

That has worked for me ... cumbersome but effective. 

 

[Esoterica]

Well my own two cents on the matter for whatever it is worth, is that for first, bookmarks and secondly, a dark theme, I really am willing to put up with whatever for that. Either forum host.

[Unholy]

I did buy a Xenforo license for E, but it doesn't properly convert pms and the permissions are far less efficient.  I can fix the former but not the latter. There is also the issue of them leaving the editor in a broken state for months.

On the other hand,  some smf code is going to be 30 soon. It isn't exactly state of the art. Xenforo is much easier to program for.

I am interested in people's opinions on the matter.

How 'less efficient' are the permissions?

And for their editor being in a broken state for months...how 'broken' is broken?

Xenforo being easier to program for sounds like a major plus though, and I will admit the Xenforo layouts I've been have generally looked pretty slick & have accessible dark modes.

[Miss Nyx]

So, I've just enabled the Super Dark Extension on Google Chrome. Here's what it looks like. And already my eyes feel so much better. 😭🖤 You might need to play with it a bit, I have mine set on Invert... every other site looks wonky but Elliquiy is looking alright so I guess I'll just on/off it as necessary until a dark skin is available on E.

[ObscureObscenities]

Dark Reader on Chrome Extensions might be a slightly better dark alternative, it handles the posting box, and it doesn't do the flat black, but more the dark mode grey black thats a bit easier looking.

[Miss Nyx]

Dark Reader on Chrome Extensions might be a slightly better dark alternative, it handles the posting box, and it doesn't do the flat black, but more the dark mode grey black thats a bit easier looking.

Excellent suggestion, I’ll give it a whirl. 👏

[RedPhoenix]

Dark Reader is on firefox too! ^^

[Lexandria]

The site upgraded in October; it's been a long time without major fixes. I'm for whatever is the most efficient and expedient way to achieve the following:

• Dark mode/skins (preferably with several options, but a basic dark mode to start with would be great) that do not require browser extensions as they are not a viable option for many users.
    º This could be achieved by enabling users to create their own skins, which is a SMF function to my understanding, and would not actually require the time spent on making the skins. Just giving the ability for others to develop them for the site.
    º I understand that the reasoning for not enabling this is because there’s a desire to bring the 3 column format back. However, the dark mode is a quality of life feature whereas the 3 column layout is merely aesthetics. Logical prioritization means aesthetics need to come last, functionality needs to be first.

• Some sort of fix regarding the editor/preview issues many of us have been running into, specifically:
    º [modify] adding junk code or giving out-of-control autocorrect vibes
    º [quick edit] freezing for long periods of time
    º the HR line code breaking formatting

• Bookmarks. Alerts and Watched threads, while great for some, are just not a sufficient workaround for many of us.

I think these are three biggest asks I've seen for restoring quality of life features for E.  Most people seem to agree these are the current priorities. If these three things were fixed, I don't think another major change in forum software is needed, unless there's quality of life elements only Xenforo might sufficiently address. But even if that is the case, what is needed now are the restoration of the three items listed above.

If help is needed for coding, perhaps a banner could be put up to see about finding some volunteers to assist?

[Geraint]

What she said ... 

[steelsmiter]

The site upgraded in October; it's been a long time without major fixes. I'm for whatever is the most efficient and expedient way to achieve the following:

• Dark mode/skins (preferably with several options, but a basic dark mode to start with would be great) that do not require browser extensions as they are not a viable option for many users.
    º This could be achieved by enabling users to create their own skins, which is a SMF function to my understanding, and would not actually require the time spent on making the skins. Just giving the ability for others to develop them for the site.
    º I understand that the reasoning for not enabling this is because there’s a desire to bring the 3 column format back. However, the dark mode is a quality of life feature whereas the 3 column layout is merely aesthetics. Logical prioritization means aesthetics need to come last, functionality needs to be first.

• Some sort of fix regarding the editor/preview issues many of us have been running into, specifically:
    º [modify] adding junk code or giving out-of-control autocorrect vibes
    º [quick edit] freezing for long periods of time
    º the HR line code breaking formatting

• Bookmarks. Alerts and Watched threads, while great for some, are just not a sufficient workaround for many of us.

That would be cool. You brought up something else interesting for me: I would like to be able to make a list and indent entries on it without doing individual manual spaces. Not picky one way or the other whether each level has a different character, but it threw me that you weren't using the li and /li codes that the list button injects.

[Lexandria]

I write everything in the rudimentary word processing application that comes with most computers and manually create the indents and lists I want. I've memorized the hotkeys that give the simple bullet points. Or if I want a fancier one I'll search it up and add it to my list of symbols I've either memorized or have in a reference document to copy and paste. That way I have complete control of how it looks. Then I just copy/paste it over here to post.

[Amaris]

The site upgraded in October; it's been a long time without major fixes. I'm for whatever is the most efficient and expedient way to achieve the following:

• Dark mode/skins (preferably with several options, but a basic dark mode to start with would be great) that do not require browser extensions as they are not a viable option for many users.
    º This could be achieved by enabling users to create their own skins, which is a SMF function to my understanding, and would not actually require the time spent on making the skins. Just giving the ability for others to develop them for the site.
    º I understand that the reasoning for not enabling this is because there’s a desire to bring the 3 column format back. However, the dark mode is a quality of life feature whereas the 3 column layout is merely aesthetics. Logical prioritization means aesthetics need to come last, functionality needs to be first.

• Some sort of fix regarding the editor/preview issues many of us have been running into, specifically:
    º [modify] adding junk code or giving out-of-control autocorrect vibes
    º [quick edit] freezing for long periods of time
    º the HR line code breaking formatting

• Bookmarks. Alerts and Watched threads, while great for some, are just not a sufficient workaround for many of us.

I think these are three biggest asks I've seen for restoring quality of life features for E.  Most people seem to agree these are the current priorities. If these three things were fixed, I don't think another major change in forum software is needed, unless there's quality of life elements only Xenforo might sufficiently address. But even if that is the case, what is needed now are the restoration of the three items listed above.

If help is needed for coding, perhaps a banner could be put up to see about finding some volunteers to assist?

This said most of what I was trying to say as well.

[PeachyPie]

That would be cool. You brought up something else interesting for me: I would like to be able to make a list and indent entries on it without doing individual manual spaces. Not picky one way or the other whether each level has a different character, but it threw me that you weren't using the li and /li codes that the list button injects.

So, I'm not 100% that this is what you were looking for, but I hope it helps if so! Anyway, you can actually indent list entries without doing it manually - you just have to create a parent list, then nest sub-lists inside of it.

• Outer List 1
  
  • Indented List
  • Indented List
• Outer List 2
  
  • Indented List
  • Indented List

Code Select Expand

[list]
[li]Outer List 1
[list]
[li]Indented List[/li]
[li]Indented List[/li]
[/list]
[/li]

[li]Outer List 2
[list]
[li]Indented List[/li]
[li]Indented List[/li]
[/list]
[/li]
[/list]
You can also change the symbol for each li by giving the list a type= attribute. I don't know what the types are, though.

[steelsmiter]

So, I'm not 100% that this is what you were looking for, but I hope it helps if so! Anyway, you can actually indent list entries without doing it manually - you just have to create a parent list, then nest sub-lists inside of it.

• Outer List 1
  
  • Indented List
  • Indented List
• Outer List 2
  
  • Indented List
  • Indented List

Code Select Expand

[list]
[li]Outer List 1[list]
[li]Indented List[/li]
[li]Indented List[/li]
[/list][/li]
[li]Outer List 2[list]
[li]Indented List[/li]
[li]Indented List[/li]
[/list][/li]
[/list]
You can also change the symbol for each li by giving the list a type= attribute. I don't know what the types are, though.

What I'm looking for is a button where you can be completely stupid about code, click the button and indent the list. I could maybe do that on a good brain day. I can click buttons all day long though.

[Unholy]

The site upgraded in October; it's been a long time without major fixes. I'm for whatever is the most efficient and expedient way to achieve the following:

• Dark mode/skins (preferably with several options, but a basic dark mode to start with would be great) that do not require browser extensions as they are not a viable option for many users.
    º This could be achieved by enabling users to create their own skins, which is a SMF function to my understanding, and would not actually require the time spent on making the skins. Just giving the ability for others to develop them for the site.
    º I understand that the reasoning for not enabling this is because there’s a desire to bring the 3 column format back. However, the dark mode is a quality of life feature whereas the 3 column layout is merely aesthetics. Logical prioritization means aesthetics need to come last, functionality needs to be first.

• Some sort of fix regarding the editor/preview issues many of us have been running into, specifically:
    º [modify] adding junk code or giving out-of-control autocorrect vibes
    º [quick edit] freezing for long periods of time
    º the HR line code breaking formatting

• Bookmarks. Alerts and Watched threads, while great for some, are just not a sufficient workaround for many of us.

I think these are three biggest asks I've seen for restoring quality of life features for E.  Most people seem to agree these are the current priorities. If these three things were fixed, I don't think another major change in forum software is needed, unless there's quality of life elements only Xenforo might sufficiently address. But even if that is the case, what is needed now are the restoration of the three items listed above.

If help is needed for coding, perhaps a banner could be put up to see about finding some volunteers to assist?

These are admittedly the three things I would say are also in my 'top three' wishlist. :D

Probably in this actual order. What I would not give for a dark mode without having to deal with an extension! 🙏

[Azy]

I would really love to see the bookmarks come back.  I'm one of those people who  has trouble keeping track of things, and that feature made things so much easier.  The three column format made it easier to find what I'm looking for, but I don't consider it a high priority. 

[Sara Nilsson]

Bookmark.

The rest is gravy, but bookmarks are a must tbh. It is so annoying not having them. The rest, the layout and lack of dark mode is something I can live without.

[Eva]

Bookmark.

The rest is gravy, but bookmarks are a must tbh. It is so annoying not having them. The rest, the layout and lack of dark mode is something I can live without.

I 100% agree.

[Lexandria]

Dark Mode is an accessibility issue that affects equity of experience between users when using the site.

[RedPhoenix]

Completely agree. If I didn't have the ability to make a dark mode with my browser I would probably have stopped using the site. We shouldn't just assume everyone is willing to find their own dark mode, especially new members.

[ChaoticSky]

I would say Xen, even if its not a smooth transition, a clean break is better than an ongoing annoyance.