Superhero Comics!

[Dhi]

What Superman stories are good? I'm familiar with Kingdom Come and Red Son.

[Skynet]

What Superman stories are good? I'm familiar with Kingdom Come and Red Son.

Beyond those two, Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow? is another good one that's meant to serve a sort of canonical "narrative end" to the pre-Crisis Superman mythos.

All-Star Superman is a "What If?" tale of Superman getting infected with a cancer-like degenerative state due to a plot by Lex Luthor, and has but one year to live. Faced with the weakness of mortality, Superman does his part to leave the world in an ideal state as possible so that it could survive without his presence.

I have not read it, but What's So Funny About Truth, Justice, and the American Way? has Superman come to eventual blows with a newer, more popular team known as the Elite who are willing to use lethal measures in crime-fighting. It's meant to be a juxtaposition with the Man of Steel's more moral nature against the grittier and more subversive comics that dominated the genre at the time.

Another one I haven't read but mean to, Man of Steel (1986) is a six-issue series was meant to "revive" the character's origin story post-Crisis. It introduced a few concepts that are now standard-format, such as Lex Luthor being a Corrupt Corporate Executive in addition to being a Mad Scientist.

For the Man Who Has Everything has Superman fall victim to a parasitic alien plant that imposes a false reality over its victims as it feeds on their sustenance. Superman is faced with a world where Krypton was never destroyed, where he grew up with a happy family. In spite of this ideal state he manages to bring himself out of this dream.

Those tend to be the most acclaimed on the various site rankings and polls I've seen, in addition to the two you mentioned. Others that get honorable mentions are Superman: Secret Identity, Superman: Birthright, Superman for All Seasons and The Death of Superman.

[Dhi]

Seeing the covers of Man of Steel, I definitely read those at some point. Not the kind of stories I'm looking for.

Death of Superman, are you sure? Don't recommend something that's going to put me off the character!

It looks like Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow was Superman 423 and Action Comics 583; What's So Funny About Truth, Justice, and the American Way is Action Comics 775; For the Man Who Has Everything is Superman Annual 11, and all are available on DCU.

All-Star Superman comes highly praised and is also on there.

I'll add those to my reading list.

[Kadigan]

For me often Superman's best moments (maybe not stories) have occurred outside of his own comics. A couple that jump out.

Hitman 34 - Superman has a crisis of faith and Tommy helps talk him through a very real problem and makes him feel better (which when you get to the ending is kind of a nice little twist.)

JLA (Morrisons run) 6/7 - Possibly the best use of his electrical powers are showcased here, and the scene with him and Asmodel is a true classic (though would probably be better and more well remembered if it were classic superman.)

Some of his books that I enjoyed the best though are

Superman Grounded    Superman #701-714, where he spends time just walking through towns to try and get a feel for more realistic problems (though of course often encounters more Superman worthy ones too)

Superman: Secret Origin by Geoff Johns. I'm a sucker for all his work and his take on Superman is classic (and the art is phenomenal, you can practically hear Christopher Reeves voice)

And if you read that, it ties in very well with Action Comics #858–863 which is Superman and the Legion. Another Johns piece that was very well done.

[Skynet]

Seeing the covers of Man of Steel, I definitely read those at some point. Not the kind of stories I'm looking for.

Death of Superman, are you sure? Don't recommend something that's going to put me off the character!

It looks like Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow was Superman 423 and Action Comics 583; What's So Funny About Truth, Justice, and the American Way is Action Comics 775; For the Man Who Has Everything is Superman Annual 11, and all are available on DCU.

All-Star Superman comes highly praised and is also on there.

I'll add those to my reading list.

Heh, I put it up more due to its historical value; in addition to being highly controversial due to averting the reversible comic book death trope (Superman stayed dead for 1 IRL year), it was also done at a time when few of Superman's rogues' gallery could take him on in a straight fight.

But overall I'm glad you found my recommendations of use. :)

For me often Superman's best moments (maybe not stories) have occurred outside of his own comics. A couple that jump out.

Hitman 34 - Superman has a crisis of faith and Tommy helps talk him through a very real problem and makes him feel better (which when you get to the ending is kind of a nice little twist.)

JLA (Morrisons run) 6/7 - Possibly the best use of his electrical powers are showcased here, and the scene with him and Asmodel is a true classic (though would probably be better and more well remembered if it were classic superman.)

Some of his books that I enjoyed the best though are

Superman Grounded    Superman #701-714, where he spends time just walking through towns to try and get a feel for more realistic problems (though of course often encounters more Superman worthy ones too)

Superman: Secret Origin by Geoff Johns. I'm a sucker for all his work and his take on Superman is classic (and the art is phenomenal, you can practically hear Christopher Reeves voice)

And if you read that, it ties in very well with Action Comics #858–863 which is Superman and the Legion. Another Johns piece that was very well done.

Geoff Johns does a lot of good work. I got turned on to him via Flashpoint and Shazam. I liked his run on Doomsday Clock, even if it had a haltingly slow release schedule.

[Skynet]

I recently read both Teen Titans: Raven and Teen Titans: Beastboy, both written by Kami Garcia. They serve as origin stories for the respective Titans, and while there's more of an emphasis on school life and drama than traditional superheroing, both of them have their actiony moments. I'd recommend them.

[Dhi]

DC Universe is now DC Universe Infinite, and word is that it will be available internationally by the summer. I don't have any concrete dates on that.

All of the animation and film has gone over to HBO Max, and in exchange DCUI gets much more recent issues, and have tapped into imprints like Milestone, Hill House, Black Label, and Vertigo. The full Vertigo runs of Hellblazer and Preacher were made available at launch. Hopefully series like Sandman will follow, and I'm still waiting for Shade- both the Ditko and Milligan runs. Milligan's Shade is impossible to get otherwise, as only the first ~18 issues were reprinted to trade paperback.

I read most of those Superman stories. All-Star Superman was the high bar and it lost me around halfway, so that was my indication that Superman, even at his best, is just not for me.

I did enjoy Superman: Year One by Frank Miller and John Romita Jr.

The more recent issues on DCUI gave me a chance to read Dark Nights: Death Metal, which AFAIK is the catalyst for the Future State reboot. So I at least understand what's going on, and the ideas are more interesting than I would've predicted given the name and arbitrary covers. Finishing that story as it trickles out is enough, I think- I don't need to go back and read Dark Nights: Metal and Year of the Villain for more of this Batman Who Laughs gimmick.

There's entirely too much Batman as it is.

I started reading the Hill House horror imprint with Basketful of Heads, and what a fantastic story. Plunge, Dollhouse, Daphne Byrne, and Low, Low Woods are going on my reading list for sure.

I'm enjoying the new Amethyst and Bendis' Legion of Superheroes. Neither one is going to emerge on the other side of Future State, unfortunately. It's mostly Batman.

The one interesting thing with all this Future State stuff is the new Wonder Woman, Yara Flor, who is born of a Brazilian river god. Wonder Woman has always generated some appealing ideas, but even in 2021 Diana Prince is mired in themes of domestic servitude and absolute poison. Yara Flor is new and untarnished, she has a bolas of truth, she reminds me of Neil Gaiman's Angela. She's fun. I keep watching for the announcement of an ongoing series, but nothing yet as far out as April. Twelve new Batman titles though.

[Skynet]

I read most of those Superman stories. All-Star Superman was the high bar and it lost me around halfway, so that was my indication that Superman, even at his best, is just not for me.

I did enjoy Superman: Year One by Frank Miller and John Romita Jr.

Least you gave him a fair shot, and I'm glad you found a comic that you enjoyed! :)

[Tribemaster49]

I enjoy reading Super Hero comics intermittently, mostly DC, and my favorites are probably some of the classic Batman Comics like "The Killing Joke" and "Knightfall", but I also enjoy some Marvel comics as well. To be honest, I'm not as big a fan of the "New 52", and prefer more or the older stuff but I still pick up some comics from time to time. Most recently I've been reading the "King in Black" Marvel series. It's been alright, but I have to say it seems like a slightly lazier version of "Marvel Zombies" with a less scary infection. Just me, curious as to what others think :)

[Dhi]

What's King in Black? That was on the cover of a recent Spider-Woman and I didn't get a sense of what was happening.

I've been picking up some of the DC Future State stuff, mostly with the intention of running a cyberpunk Gotham group game here. It didn't get any interest though, so I guess I am just buying these for me!

[Tribemaster49]

King in Black is this onging series (on Part 3 out of 6 I believe), that deals with Knull, who is supposedly god of the venom Symbiotes. He comes to Earth and begins fighting the Avengers,X-men, ect. while surrounding the whole world is symbiote darkness. The kick is that he can infect heros with his Symbiotes and make them do his bidding causing some to fight against other and in turn infect more people. It sounded like fun but I feel like Marvel Zombies or DCeased already kind of did the same idea but better. Guess I might withhold judgment until it ends though. That's probably as in depth as I can go without spoiling anything, but if you'd like to know more feel free to dm me and I can go into further detail, or talk about some other comics lol :).

[Dhi]

Let's talk about comic books here! This is the thread for it, and I think people have an appetite for it. Disney and WB sure seem to think so. It's hard to get into, though. It's hard to know where to jump in and how to navigate these big events.

I found reading orders online for things like Dark Nights: Metal, which also sounds pretty similar to King in Black. The lists are a big help.

[Tribemaster49]

Sure, fine with me. Just don't want to spoil anything for anyone in case they're just looking for suggestions :).

[Dhi]

How about putting it in spoiler tags?

[Tribemaster49]

Good point actually lol, didn't think about that before.

[Dhi]

There's finally word on when Yara Flor will get her own series, in May. March 2nd will see another Yara Flor story in the pages of Infinite Frontier. I found this preview panel, which looks like the Wonder Woman of Brazil is coming to the US.



I read an article on the new direction of Batman which is a master class on generational stories. It shows an understanding of how comic book universes expand and why that gives me faith these stories will be worth reading. A cyberpunk villain by the name of Miracle Molly and recent Future State stories suggest Gotham and Batman are moving in a direction where gadgetry and technology may have ulterior motives, and there may be cause for Batman to trim back some of the ridiculous trust fund billionaire excess and rely on human ingenuity sometimes. I liked the Future State stories, and Miracle Molly sounds interesting, so I plan to check it out.

The new Justice League is going to debut with some unexpected roster changes. Black Adam is in, presumably to draw interest from the upcoming movie. Queen Hippolyta will be replacing her daughter, Wonder Woman. And, thrust to the fore of the team is a relatively unknown new character, Naomi.

For a long time I was down on DC. The company seemed to be consistently a decade behind on trends and atrociously mishandled female characters like Starfire and Harley. For a while during the twenty teens a month did not go by, often a week did not go by without DC attracting negative press for something mortifying. So much bad will has surrounded the company that the movies, even when they're quite good, are met with derision and hostility. There've been times I shared that feeling. The Harley Quinn #0 page 4 controversy was absolutely one of those times for me.

In the last couple of years, things have changed. They have not changed without pushback. It's difficult for me to find comic book discussion or podcasts without running into snide accusations that DC is becoming too woke, cringey, SJW, running itself into the ground. A lot of established comic book readers don't seem to see the value in characters of color or in representing women as anything more than bodies in fridges.

I do see the value in it. Not because my liberal sensibilities are tweaked by token representation, but because I am genuinely interested in following these stories.

And I mean, yes, I'm going to despoil all of it with voracious femslash, but that's because the stories are good, not in spite of them.

[Kadigan]

So, not exactly a superhero comic but I figured someone in this thread might know what this one is. There's a comic I checked out from the library a while back and I can't remember it for the life of me.

The basic plot revolves around reincarnation. As best I can remember, there's something like a reincarnation/afterlife police officer, who tracks one particular individual, through various means abuses/takes advantage the ability to reincarnate to continuously enter one woman's life.(Though it's more presented as romantic then say stalkerish or anything like that.)

If anyone remembers the title of it, I'd enjoy reading it again.

[Dhi]

I wish I could help you there! I looked up some things I read once upon a time, and no, definitely nothing like that.

I'm starting to follow DC news now, kind of keeping an eye out for the things I'm interested in to drop. Here's a look at Miracle Molly from Batman 108, apparently a major player in the upcoming cyberpunk dystopia direction for Gotham I'll be interested in reading.



Also pleasantly surprised to see a return of the Milestone imprint, nice!



Future State's version of Gotham is now slated to continue in an ongoing series aptly titled Future State: Gotham. It seems like those stories were a big success, along with Yara Flor, the clear hit of the Future State line. These may be stories worth checking out, and I can see myself becoming a comic book buyer, a comic book reader, to support more like them.

[Skynet]

I tried reading the 2019 Legion of Super-Heroes: Millennium, and couldn't really get into it. The initial protagonist was too unlikeable, and when the perspective shifted to the Legion proper their major decision that caused a lot of conflict

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

Taking Superboy from the 21st Century into the future, the same person responsible for creating the United Planets, the government that helped usher in a better future

seemed like too much of an Idiot Ball.

The Legion of Super-Heroes overall is a well-rated series, so I'm willing to give it another shot. What volumes and issues would people here recommend?

[Dhi]

The Bendis run is where I got back into comic books, and I only learned of Legion: Millennium afterward. I suppose the purpose of Millennium was to hype the new Legion book and introduce new audiences to the concepts. I'm someone who read a lot of Legion, and I agree with you that Rose is not great. She's pretty much a different person in every vignette, so there is no character to relate to, and that's the opposite of what Legion was about.

It was neat, after reading the Bendis run, to understand who Rose is. But I don't like her, I just understand who she's supposed to be.

If you don't like the lore that you put in spoilers there, Legion may irritate you. That's been a Legion standby since the 60s, I think the only Legion story that doesn't involve that character is Five Years Later. Five Years Later is widely considered a masterpiece, but you cannot possibly jump onto Legion with Five Years Later.

I was listening to this Legion retrospective the other day, where they talk about a number of the eras and stories.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iHRhDOSKwo
Legion's female readership and appeal are mentioned with some good insight to what the series is all about. A good deal of Legion is about interpersonal relationships, including the one you spoilered. Even external foes, as often as not, are familial issues one one Legionnaire or another.
The retrospective focuses a lot on the ancient history of Silver Age Legion and Jim Shooter, which for me is too crude a form. I'm not convinced these guys have picked up Legion since the 90s, but that's fine because that's where I started reading.

The best introduction to Legion is probably Action Comics 858-863 by Geoff Johns and Gary Frank.
https://www.dcuniverseinfinite.com/comics/book/action-comics-1938-858/a584d2f7-2ea6-4a6b-af70-a67531b98b54
It might help to redeem the plot point you've spoilered. If it doesn't, if those seven issues don't do anything for you, it's possible the Legion flavor is not right for you.

From there I'd recommend jumping on one of the modern age runs. Bendis' recent series is not bad. The consensus is that his changes are far from the worst retcons to Legion. Ryan Sook's art is impressive handling dozens of characters at once, I like the new costumes, and the character vignettes in #4 were great. On the down side, it's the same writer as the plot point you didn't care for in Millennium, and he continues to treat it cavalierly, so I wouldn't start there. Give it a read at some point, the when doesn't matter.

The post-Zero Hour The Legion (2001) series by Andy Lanning is a good place to pick up after Action Comics if you don't care for Bendis. This is a more mature take on some of the iconic story arcs, where the characters have fleshed out identities and less silly names.
https://www.dcuniverseinfinite.com/comics/series/the-legion/d18a3ed9-ce87-4962-aad6-506a72d63c0b

Legionnaires (1993) comes right before The Legion, and was my entry point to the universe. I haven't touched it in such a long time that I don't know if it holds up, but it definitely made an impression on me at the time and it's on my reading list for the near future.
https://www.dcuniverseinfinite.com/comics/series/legionnaires/8160ca63-3cca-40bd-a2a7-1cc0c6b68000

Final Crisis: Legion of Three Worlds by Geoff Johns and George Perez combines the timelines of Action Comics and The Legion (2001).
https://www.dcuniverseinfinite.com/comics/series/final-crisis-legion-of-three-worlds/bb06ce8b-33cd-461a-9a8c-e6c750ca2260
In particular if you didn't like Bendis' handling of your spoilered plot point, I think you're going to enjoy the finale.

The success of that event led to a volume 6 Legion of Super-Heroes (2010) which was pretty worthless aside from giving the gay characters (Light Lass and Violet) space to exist.

And if you get through enough of that to find you do enjoy the characters and their arcs, then you're ready to check out Keith Giffen's Five Years Later opus in #1-25 of Legion of Super-Heroes (1989).
https://www.dcuniverseinfinite.com/comics/series/legion-of-super-heroes-1989-2000/9d6169ba-8106-487d-92cd-8a621f45ccfe
And if you like the darker tone, give Future State: Legion of Super-Heroes a read (after the Bendis run). Pros: It's only two issues! Cons: If you're uninitiated you will have no clue what's going on.

Showcasing some of the Legion's most memorable foes, I would recommend

The Great Darkness Saga
Legion of Super-Heroes (1980) 287 (just the backup story), 290-294, Annual #3
https://www.dcuniverseinfinite.com/comics/book/the-legion-of-super-heroes-1980-290/728385a5-2fb6-4b98-a0f7-b7cd72771efb/

The Fatal Five
Legion of Super-Heroes (1989) 120-121
https://www.dcuniverseinfinite.com/comics/book/legion-of-super-heroes-1989-120/96f346d0-79a3-4219-b3aa-52189b083150/
Teen Titans/Legion Special #1
https://www.dcuniverseinfinite.com/comics/book/teen-titans-legion-special-1-2004-1/f8e86ad3-25c9-48b1-8597-487405c09964/

Mordru
Legion of Super-Heroes (1989) 45-48
https://www.dcuniverseinfinite.com/comics/book/legion-of-super-heroes-1989-45/d32a4153-c03c-485b-92fb-28cfd6106999/

Time Trapper
Final Crisis: Legion of Three Worlds 1-5
https://www.dcuniverseinfinite.com/comics/series/final-crisis-legion-of-three-worlds/bb06ce8b-33cd-461a-9a8c-e6c750ca2260

I haven't yet read the "threeboot" Supergirl and the Legion of Super-Heroes (2005) by Mark Waid and Barry Kitson, or Legion Lost (2011) by Fabien Nicieza and Pete Woods, but both are on my list.
https://www.dcuniverseinfinite.com/comics/series/legion-of-super-heroes-2005-2009/04d0897e-5ff7-4e9f-8cdb-50a0d0105c89
https://www.dcuniverseinfinite.com/comics/series/legion-lost-2011-2013/30980c68-2b5d-4aa0-84ce-d5266ec5821c

[Skynet]

A very informative post.

Wow. This is everything I could've asked for. Thank you very much for this!

I currently have a bit of a comic backlog on Kindle, but I'll let you know my thoughts if I pick up the other issues. I had good experience with Geoff Johns so starting with 858 sounds like a plan!

[Dhi]

Something I've wanted to talk about is Mindfuck, from Adam Warren's Empowered.



Mindfuck is a telepath with tragedy in her past. Due in part to the constant psychic noise of her uncontrolled telepathy, she resides on the superteam's orbital station and maintains their surveillance and alien portal networks. Others perceive her as nervous, jittery, and her self-loathing brings her to psychically tailor her personality to become a better person.

Mindfuck and a key superteam member, Sistah Spooky, are in love.



No one else in the world realizes this, because all of it unfolds through telepathic link when the two are together. Mindfuck comes to understand Spooky as a similarly damaged individual, whose insecurity brought her to make a Faustian bargain for magical fabulousness. Mindfuck gives Spooky the reassurance she needs, but Spooky never really confronts her own faults as a result. Spooky antagonizes the book's heroine relentlessly and makes her life pretty miserable.

   

But halfway through the run, Mindfuck sacrifices herself to contain a dangerous villain on the orbital station. She dies.

A psychic emulation of Mindfuck lives on in Sistah Spooky's mind, a remnant of their link which once allowed Spooky to experience Mindfuck even when they were thousands of miles apart. Spooky could erase that emulation at any time, but instead nurtures it, becoming disconnected from reality. The emulation becomes a substitute for Mindfuck, and I love that it elbows into Spooky's traumatic memories to turn them pleasant and rescue her from self-doubt.



But it isn't the same- the woman she loved is gone, and Spooky is forced to grow as a person.

That growth is agonizing, well earned, and by the story's end tremendous. Spooky and the book's heroine bond, and in the conclusion stand together against believably dark threats with the credibility of 11 volumes of personal growth behind them.



Empowered is a great story and I'd recommend it. There is a ton of bondage in every volume, so I feel like it's relevant to Elliquiy.

[Callie Del Noire]

Empowered is an AMAZING comic/webcomic. Emp, the main character, grows so much over the series. We have a heroine who literally loses her powers when she gets her costume shredded/loses her confidence but stands up so many times to the truly big bads of the series.

As for Mindfuck, she’s one of the most noble heroes in the series. Her psychic remnants in Spooky, and later on in Emp, are amazing scenes to read.

[Dhi]

Karla Pacheco is doing a terrible job of writing the current Spider-Woman series. As much as I want to support women creating comic books and support my favorite character, it's clear Pacheco doesn't care and my financial support is sending the wrong message.

Today's issue was the end for me. Pacheco has done the absolute worst thing, which I only broached jokingly, and after a year of ugly narrative farts I feel like I've given her enough chances to do something with the opportunity.

Maybe in another five or six years, when Jessica Drew rises again.

[Dhi]

DC was at ComicsPRO this week affirming their plan to continue print books. That's great!

Some upcoming titles were also announced, including a dark ages DC setting. I like the sound of that, although I have to assume it's something like Batman as the Robin Hood of Gotham Forest, Superman as Lancelot, and Wonder Woman as pretty well unchanged in the last 2500 years.

It might be something worth exploring here on E.

No news on Legion that I could find, but so much Batman.