On Nationalism

[Meatboy]

I ask this in all sincerity; are you trolling?

Nope. That's just the way things are around here. It goes to show that just about every country has something the others don't and that we shouldn't dwell on it too much. Although, as you can probably see, people miss this point completely and make a fuss about it.

It's easier to accept that some people might have something that you don't but you might also have something that they don't and that's okay. It's nothing to worry about.

[Meatboy]

Just need to clarify the ff. as I might be gone for a while...

Filipinos tend to put a lot of fuss over so-called "nationalistic issues" that are all too often irrelevant anyway. Take for instance the Manny Pacquiao vs. Floyd Mayweather bout two years (?) ago wherein a large number of my countrymen felt like we were cheated even though in sports like boxing, winning AND losing are only natural consequences. "You win some, you lose some." as the Americans often say.

I think it's better that we accept our respective homelands for what they are and that, while they might not be perfect, we can all agree that it doesn't really need to be.

And to Deamonbane: I meant that as kudos to Brazilians for having such beautiful, beautiful people since if your female convicts are THAT gorgeous, what more the common Brazilian woman? My only beef with the situation described is that so many people in the cafeteria acted out of proportion. I wish they'd just accept that some people might have more stuff or are better at something than themselves.

Going back to the home and family metaphor, I don't think it should be an issue if other homes and families have it better than you. What you should do is find happiness in who you are and what you have and be the best that you can be.

[Skynet]

On the chance that you're being entirely serious, holding up women convicts as a thing to hold proud of is a very superficial thing. Said TV show is likely fetishizing for views rather than a holistic survey of the general population. Even though you say that the people in the cafeteria are "acting out of proportion," phrasing it as a "kudos to Brazilians" comes off as you giving a spiritual high-five to said men.

I am not an expert on the Brazilian criminal justice system, but consider the fact that a lot of said inmates are either a.) genuine criminals with more than a few personality issues living in deplorable conditions, or b.) if Brazil's justice system is corrupt, likely have their fair share of innocents and disproportionately punished convicts. I'd find it rather creepy to sexualize them in this case.

If you have a "women in prison" fetish that's your thing, but don't start confusing a sensationalist TV series for reality.

A similar line of thought I've seen are people's perceptions that Japan is a sexually liberal society for its diverse and extreme pornography. It's not; the porn is often a private fantasy, and much of Japan is still very conservative in regards to gender and LGBT issues.

[Deamonbane]

I mean... Brazilian women are beautiful, but the same can be said of pretty much any place you go :D

As of right now, while I have no shame in being Brazilian, seeing that one of the front-runners for the Brazilian Presidency is an open supporter of torture and military dictatorship, with homophobia, racism and misogyny being his campaign slogans (all wrapped up as being anti-political correctness, just cuz), no I cannot say that I'm proud of the direction that my country has been heading over the past six months or so.

[TheLionKing]

Perhaps I am beating an obvious dead horse, however, from a historical aspect, nationalism can be highly deadly given the wrong group of people. Not to point out the elephant in the room but I feel Germany had the most... I suppose Salman Rushdie has the correct word for this.... Shame when it comes to nationalism. After all, violence is born out of shame. I always have the same argument with myself about Hitler if he was an internationalist or an opportunist, however, I feel that in some cases he was a bit of a vulture with the German sentiment about losing WWI, so what better way than to push for a massive way of nationalism to make everyone feel good about being German again. Let's make Germany great again! Let's take it back to the way it was before the Jews scapegoated us and made us lose the war!  The rhetoric nearly makes me cringe as I see the parallels in America right now. 

[Callie Del Noire]

I’m waiting an watching so many groups are talking about things like using violence to control the vote and such

[RedRose]

A similar line of thought I've seen are people's perceptions that Japan is a sexually liberal society for its diverse and extreme pornography. It's not; the porn is often a private fantasy, and much of Japan is still very conservative in regards to gender and LGBT issues.

I thought this was common knowledge

[Arianna]

I love that Merriam Webster explanation of the differences that Oni posted. I just saw something a minute ago on a group I follow, a random comment regarding the victims of the Pittsburgh shooting. Turns out that one of the victims was a Holocaust survivor and four more were old enough to have been alive during WWII. And the comment was "They survived Hitler, but they didn't survive Trump."
This, in my opinion, is why nationalism will never be a good thing in my book. No nation should be considered better than another, no matter how patriotic we are, and how much we love our countries.

[Skynet]

I thought this was common knowledge

Not among some otaku circles lol

[TheLionKing]

I love that Merriam Webster explanation of the differences that Oni posted. I just saw something a minute ago on a group I follow, a random comment regarding the victims of the Pittsburgh shooting. Turns out that one of the victims was a Holocaust survivor and four more were old enough to have been alive during WWII. And the comment was "They survived Hitler, but they didn't survive Trump."
This, in my opinion, is why nationalism will never be a good thing in my book. No nation should be considered better than another, no matter how patriotic we are, and how much we love our countries.

That comment hit me pretty hard. Wow. That is certainly put some things into perspective.  I fully agree that no nation should be considered better than another or more important. It's one thing to love your country and to be proud of it, but it is another when someone starts shoving it down other's throats. America is having some manner problems right now.

[Vekseid]

Nations are ethnicities - peoples sharing a language and culture. There are many Native American nations, for example, and the United States is categorized as an empire, because there is one state ruling over thousands of ethnic nations. Only a few other countries compete in terms of raw scale - China, Russia, Brazil, Indonesia.

In practice, the American model is closest to the Chinese - absorb and assimilate. So when someone says they are a nationalist, it sounds far more innocuous to most American ears than what Richard Spencer outright stated was the goal of the alt right: the creation of a white ethnostate. The nation to which the likes of Spencer and others on the alt right speak isn't America, or any currently existing state. It's about the nation of whites who think like them, and the creation of a state to serve solely their interests above all others.

[Meatboy]

I love that Merriam Webster explanation of the differences that Oni posted. I just saw something a minute ago on a group I follow, a random comment regarding the victims of the Pittsburgh shooting. Turns out that one of the victims was a Holocaust survivor and four more were old enough to have been alive during WWII. And the comment was "They survived Hitler, but they didn't survive Trump."
This, in my opinion, is why nationalism will never be a good thing in my book. No nation should be considered better than another, no matter how patriotic we are, and how much we love our countries.

That comment hit me pretty hard. Wow. That is certainly put some things into perspective.  I fully agree that no nation should be considered better than another or more important. It's one thing to love your country and to be proud of it, but it is another when someone starts shoving it down other's throats. America is having some manner problems right now.

While I appreciate your sense of equality, I will still say that First World countries will always have an advantage over and have a better society than Third World countries.

BUT that doesn't mean that the lives of third world citizens are expendable. 

[TheLionKing]

While I appreciate your sense of equality, I will still say that First World countries will always have an advantage over and have a better society than Third World countries.

BUT that doesn't mean that the lives of third world citizens are expendable.

Of course first world countries have advantages that's why they're called first world countries. However, they don't need to be snobbish about it. If a third world country gets hit by a hurricane then we should go down and help them.

[Oniya]

Of course first world countries have advantages that's why they're called first world countries.

Fun Fact:  The terms 'first world' and 'third world' (no one talks about 'second world') came about during the Cold War.  First world nations were those aligned with NATO.  'Second world' countries were those aligned with the Communist Bloc - although, as I said, no one ever used that term, because 'Communist Bloc' sold more papers.  'Third world' countries were those who weren't aligned with either, which included prosperous nations like Switzerland.

The usage of the term 'third world' as a synonym for 'developing/undeveloped/impoverished nation' comes from the fact that most of those nations happened to be formerly colonial territories in Africa, Oceania, and Latin America. 

[TheGlyphstone]

Fun Fact:  The terms 'first world' and 'third world' (no one talks about 'second world') came about during the Cold War.  First world nations were those aligned with NATO.  'Second world' countries were those aligned with the Communist Bloc - although, as I said, no one ever used that term, because 'Communist Bloc' sold more papers.  'Third world' countries were those who weren't aligned with either, which included prosperous nations like Switzerland.

The usage of the term 'third world' as a synonym for 'developing/undeveloped/impoverished nation' comes from the fact that most of those nations happened to be formerly colonial territories in Africa, Oceania, and Latin America.

You mean it's not an outgrowth of Native American tribal creation mythology? I'm so disappointed now. ;D

[Oniya]

You mean it's not an outgrowth of Native American tribal creation mythology? I'm so disappointed now. ;D

You're thinking of the Mayans, and by that myth-cycle, we're well beyond the 'Third'.  Currently, we're on the Fifth World, unless you believe the 2012 stuff that went down (or didn't go down) as a transition to the Sixth.  ;D

[TheGlyphstone]

You're thinking of the Mayans, and by that myth-cycle, we're well beyond the 'Third'.  Currently, we're on the Fifth World, unless you believe the 2012 stuff that went down (or didn't go down) as a transition to the Sixth.  ;D

No, I was specifically thinking of the Navajo/Diné creation myth. We live in Fourth World.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Din%C3%A9_Bahane%CA%BC

[Meatboy]

You're thinking of the Mayans, and by that myth-cycle, we're well beyond the 'Third'.  Currently, we're on the Fifth World, unless you believe the 2012 stuff that went down (or didn't go down) as a transition to the Sixth.  ;D

Now we're going into Shadowrun territory!

And yes, I'd rather have a dragon as president.

[Oniya]

Now we're going into Shadowrun territory!

And yes, I'd rather have a dragon as president.

Never Deal With a Dragon.

(Although I wouldn't be surprised to find a minor Horror somewhere in the current government.)

[Meatboy]

Never Deal With a Dragon.

(Although I wouldn't be surprised to find a minor Horror somewhere in the current government.)

I guess that's how it is in America...

In the Philippines, we have Chaos Daemons!

[Oniya]

Sorry - took a stab at making an EarthDawn reference, based on your ShadowRun familiarity.   [/tangent]

[Meatboy]

Sorry - took a stab at making an EarthDawn reference, based on your ShadowRun familiarity.   [/tangent]

I know.

Are horrors and chaos daemons in all the world's governments now?

[Callie Del Noire]

Sorry - took a stab at making an EarthDawn reference, based on your ShadowRun familiarity.   [/tangent]

I miss that game system