Impeachment, Take Two (and Other Trump News)

[Oniya]

The Senate trial for the impeachment of former President Trump is set to start in less than two weeks, this time for the single count of incitement of insurrection

This thread is to provide a place to discuss news related to the upcoming Senate trial.

Unfortunately, Trump's legal team seems to be in flux.  Two of the lead attorneys have left as part of a 'mutual decision'.

[Oniya]

Article is updated - he's lost five attorneys now.

Butch Bowers
Deborah Barbier
Josh Howard
Johnny Gasser
Greg Harris

[Callie Del Noire]

At least three of them stepped away because the wouldn’t push the ‘stolen election’ theory from what I heard.

[PrincessBuggy]

Trump going to stay self-defeatingly narcissistic as always, who didn't see that coming?

Per Politico, Democrats have been signaling that the trial will be quick per statements from folks like Sens. Kaine and Stabenow. They don't seem to have the votes to push it through to the needed 67-vote threshold? And it probably won't even be close if I had to guess. The Republican Party seems to remain by and large firmly hitched to the Trump train.

[Haibane]

Staff - can we discuss the fallout from 6th January and other Trump-related matters here or should a separate Trump - ex-President thread be set up? Thanks.

[Oniya]

The thread title has been updated to bring other Trump issues in as 'topical.'

In impeachment news, however, the House brief to the Senate on the upcoming trial has been released.

NPR has an embedded copy.

[HannibalBarca]

It looks like Trump got lawyers who are going to go with what he wanted--that the election was rigged.  Well, wording it in as careful a way as possible to try to keep themselves from being disbarred.  But it doesn't go towards the article of impeachment at all.  The world of the bizarre just goes on and on with this idiot.

[Haibane]

Perhaps this is an opportunity for the world to finally hear and see what evidence he has.

[Chaeronea]

That seems to be Trump's motivation - have a public spectacle where he convinces everyone that the election was stolen, he's the real President and all should bow down and worship him. The sixty or so lawsuits alleging exactly the same this don't count, especially the ones struck down y the judges and Supreme Court he appointed.

Yeah, I threw up a little in my mouth when I wrote that.

In related news Michigan's Governor, Attorney General and Secretary of State seek to disbar Sidney Powell and other lawyers claiming election fraud.

[Haibane]

Reading that article I was wondering when someone would mention Hitler or Nazis. It took me all the way to the last sentence, but we got there.  ::)

[Beorning]

The sad thing about impeachment is that, ultimately, it all comes down to partisan voting.

So, if the Republicans aren't willing to vote against Trump, he will get away unpunished. Even if he walks into the proceedings and loudly proclaims that, yes, dammit, he absolutely wanted to overthrow the government - and here's his 10-page memo to co-workers on what to do after the Capitol is razed to the ground! He could just that - and still, if the Republicans don't budge, he'll walk away happy. Eh...

[HannibalBarca]

The sad thing about impeachment is that, ultimately, it all comes down to partisan voting.

So, if the Republicans aren't willing to vote against Trump, he will get away unpunished. Even if he walks into the proceedings and loudly proclaims that, yes, dammit, he absolutely wanted to overthrow the government - and here's his 10-page memo to co-workers on what to do after the Capitol is razed to the ground! He could just that - and still, if the Republicans don't budge, he'll walk away happy. Eh...

He'll be unpunished by Congress.  There are multiple criminal cases awaiting prosecution in New York and elsewhere that could and likely will result in Trump being put in prison for the rest of his life.  He's likely to have the company of many of his allies and followers as well.

[Dice]

The sad thing about impeachment is that, ultimately, it all comes down to partisan voting.

So, if the Republicans aren't willing to vote against Trump, he will get away unpunished. Even if he walks into the proceedings and loudly proclaims that, yes, dammit, he absolutely wanted to overthrow the government - and here's his 10-page memo to co-workers on what to do after the Capitol is razed to the ground! He could just that - and still, if the Republicans don't budge, he'll walk away happy. Eh...

I do not think in the future a prez will ever be removed from office regardless of what they do. Unless the Dems want to repeat Al Franken and force someone like Bill out of office next time it happens (Yes, I said next time, because I have that much faith in men not to just be dicks) then yea, this is not happening. The R's are never ever going to vote out one of their own and the D's are just as likely to circle the wagons around their own.

Way it is now.

[PrincessBuggy]

I'd agree with Dice here- until the day that the United States legislature can operate with a multiparty system rather than a duopoly its unlikely you will ever have the numbers to forcibly recall a member of the executive. Neither party has the incentive to budge here.

[gaggedLouise]

I'd agree with Dice here- until the day that the United States legislature can operate with a multiparty system rather than a duopoly its unlikely you will ever have the numbers to forcibly recall a member of the executive. Neither party has the incentive to budge here.

Probably true - I've been saying for some time now that the US has grown too big and diverse for the two-party system to be a good "skin" for the political process anymore. These days, it tends to lead to polarization and Dunning-Kruger effects. Blatantly visible in the GOP over the last few years (not only there but mostly).

I suppose an original motive for the two-party model and FPTP was the notion that it would lead to the very best guy landing in every seat because only the best would be able to survive the election process, like an elimination cup in tennis. :) UNfortunately no, that's not the result....

And if the Republicans can't even take action against a congress member who's propagated quack theories about 9/11, who claims that deadly school shootings were staged and follows everything Trump says about the election, then it's hard to see how they are going to get themselves out of this mess and return to some sort of minimum of rationality and decency.

[Oniya]

Slightly amusing:

https://www.sagaftra.org/sag-aftra-national-board-orders-disciplinary-hearing-donald-trump
(Screen Actors' Guild charges Trump with disciplinary hearing over 1/6 coup attempt, and 'reckless campaign of misinformation aimed at [...] journalists')

Trump's response:  https://www.sagaftra.org/files/SAG-AFTRAResignationLetterfromPresidentDonaldJTrump.pdf
(You can't expel me, I quit!)

And the Screen Actors' Guild response to that:  https://www.sagaftra.org/sag-aftra-statement-donald-j-trump%E2%80%99s-resignation-union
(Byee-eeeee!)

[Beorning]

Heh.

BTW. I noticed that he still signs as "President Donald J. Trump". Is this normal for ex-US Presidents to keep using their title, or is it all Trump's madness?

[Oniya]

I've heard varying takes on that.  I remember back in 2016, there was some humor-posting about how, if Hillary Clinton had been elected, we'd introduce them as 'Presidents Clinton'.  But, I'm actually not sure if the title is retained.

[Haibane]

I'm aware the "ex-President's Club" is a thing.

But, yeah, whether he is entitled to use it or not, you can guarantee he will.

[Beorning]

Also... he was in the actor's union??? I'm not saying he wasn't eligible, but why would someone like him join a *union*?

[Oniya]

I'm betting so that he could get the residuals from The Apprentice and his other (limited) screen roles.  Also perhaps so he could be eligible for the SAG awards, which tend to have an implication towards the Academy Awards.  (Getting a SAG Award tends to mean you are accomplished enough for an Academy Award.)

[Haibane]

If its anything like Equity here in the UK then its a requirement. The performing arts industries are really still a relatively closed shop. In the UK I'm aware that ANY speaking part requires an actor (stage or screen) to be a union member. I have this idea from them though that its more like a medieval guild than a modern union. Yes it protects wages and contracts but its hardly a socialist thing.

[TheGlyphstone]

Yeah, the SAG is very much a guild in the medieval sense. It doesn't exist to protect its members so much as it does to exclude non members from the industry.

[Oniya]

In non-impeachment news, looks like Trump is crazier than the Joker.  He's willing to take on the IRS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G56VgsLfKY4

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-campaign-shifted-money-into-indebted-private-business-forbes-2021-2

(Using campaign money to pay for personal expenses is wire fraud, and carries a 20-year per charge sentence.  And the IRS does prosecute.)

[Beorning]

Wow. I hope they will get him at least for that...