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Author Topic: Back by Popular Demand (D&D 3.5 Gestalt)  (Read 9738 times)

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Offline Kunoichi

Re: Back by Popular Demand (D&D 3.5 Gestalt)
« Reply #50 on: February 21, 2011, 11:32:46 PM »
Hmm.  Given that the post linked to in the opening post for rules includes the statement that 36 point buy can be used as an alternative to rolling, would I be able to use the following 36 point array for stats: 10, 10, 12, 14, 14, 18?  After succubus racial adjustments, it would come out to:

STR: 12
DEX: 14
CON: 16
INT: 20
WIS: 14
CHA: 34

And the character's going to be pretty much entirely Cha-based, so... ^^;

Offline Keelan

Re: Back by Popular Demand (D&D 3.5 Gestalt)
« Reply #51 on: February 21, 2011, 11:38:50 PM »
And yet so necessary to playing a Fiend of Possession...

If she's reformed, perhaps I could make her an antihero-type who uses evil powers to good ends, or something like that?
That... that might be feasible.  For me it's not so much the level of power, but moreso the fact that having an Evil character in the party may very well cause undue conflict, especially with the Paladin we have so far.  Having a group of several Lawful and/or Good characters with a single Evil character could be a source of inter-party conflict.  I really wouldn't want to have it come to 'everyone slay the evil bitch who was once our ally' after she offs somebody or betrays someone else in the party >.>

If you want to just annoy the pally, go tiefling. Heaven forbid that we have a pally in the party that isn't getting harassed.
I'm all for making party dynamics interesting, but again let's try to make it so the Paladin doesn't have to make our total number of allies smaller via violent action in one form or another

Holy shit that's powerful...
Hmm.  Given that the post linked to in the opening post for rules includes the statement that 36 point buy can be used as an alternative to rolling, would I be able to use the following 36 point array for stats: 10, 10, 12, 14, 14, 18?  After succubus racial adjustments, it would come out to:

STR: 12
DEX: 14
CON: 16
INT: 20
WIS: 14
CHA: 34

And the character's going to be pretty much entirely Cha-based, so... ^^;
Holy shit that's powerful... o.o *makes note to have a VERY high Will Save*

Offline NicciKotor

Re: Back by Popular Demand (D&D 3.5 Gestalt)
« Reply #52 on: February 21, 2011, 11:39:36 PM »
100% true story. I was running a real life gestalt game, and we had a pally/sorcerer in the party. I had them trekking through the underdark and needed to enter a drow city. So the problem of trying to get a pally that stank of good into a drow city, without them either killing or kidnapping him, became quite the issue.

So the only logical solution was to tie him up in a gimp suit and tell the drow that he was a pet.

Before that, I gave the party some loot, and in it was a portable bath tub. The truename mage and that pally got into a half hour argument over who got to get it. The pally argued that he was nobility, so peasant begone! The truename mage countered by being naked and being in the tub already, so home field advantage.

Offline Kunoichi

Re: Back by Popular Demand (D&D 3.5 Gestalt)
« Reply #53 on: February 21, 2011, 11:42:57 PM »
That... that might be feasible.  For me it's not so much the level of power, but moreso the fact that having an Evil character in the party may very well cause undue conflict, especially with the Paladin we have so far.  Having a group of several Lawful and/or Good characters with a single Evil character could be a source of inter-party conflict.  I really wouldn't want to have it come to 'everyone slay the evil bitch who was once our ally' after she offs somebody or betrays someone else in the party >.>

Oh, trust me, even when I stick evil characters into a party of good characters, making sure that they're willing to work with the group is rather important to me.

In this particular case, aside from the antihero angle, one of the other character interpretations I've got involves a succubus who leans more towards the chaotic side of her alignment, rather than the evil side.  She'd basically have decided to go adventuring for the entertainment value, and I'd have her stick with the group because she finds them to be interesting people.

Quote
I'm all for making party dynamics interesting, but again let's try to make it so the Paladin doesn't have to make our total number of allies smaller via violent action in one form or another

Agreed. ^^;

Quote
Holy shit that's powerful... o.o *makes note to have a VERY high Will Save*

Well, Paladins of Freedom are immune to compulsion effects...

Offline Videospirit

Re: Back by Popular Demand (D&D 3.5 Gestalt)
« Reply #54 on: February 21, 2011, 11:44:18 PM »
It's not like I'm completely opposed to falling at some point. It's not like those 2 levels of paladin abilities are really going a long way for me :).

Offline Kunoichi

Re: Back by Popular Demand (D&D 3.5 Gestalt)
« Reply #55 on: February 21, 2011, 11:46:57 PM »
I dunno.  At-will Detect Evil and Cha to saves can be pretty awesome to have.  I'm tempted to take Paladin levels opposite the Fiend of Possession levels, myself, but they'd have to be Paladin of Slaughter levels and I really don't want to deal with that particular code of conduct...

Offline Keelan

Re: Back by Popular Demand (D&D 3.5 Gestalt)
« Reply #56 on: February 21, 2011, 11:53:50 PM »
Oh, trust me, even when I stick evil characters into a party of good characters, making sure that they're willing to work with the group is rather important to me.

In this particular case, aside from the antihero angle, one of the other character interpretations I've got involves a succubus who leans more towards the chaotic side of her alignment, rather than the evil side.  She'd basically have decided to go adventuring for the entertainment value, and I'd have her stick with the group because she finds them to be interesting people.
Again, that could work too.  I'd say that as long as inter-party conflict can be avoided, then my concerns are greatly lessened.  Never been as fond of evil characters regardless, but if you can make it work then go for it.

Quote
Well, Paladins of Freedom are immune to compulsion effects...
True true, though I was thinking of making a LN character instead of CG (what I usually play)

I dunno.  At-will Detect Evil and Cha to saves can be pretty awesome to have.  I'm tempted to take Paladin levels opposite the Fiend of Possession levels, myself, but they'd have to be Paladin of Slaughter levels and I really don't want to deal with that particular code of conduct...
Agreed, for reasons I've given already.  If you found a way to make her a different alignment though there are Paladins of every sort out there because of the Dragon Magazines

Offline Kunoichi

Re: Back by Popular Demand (D&D 3.5 Gestalt)
« Reply #57 on: February 21, 2011, 11:56:33 PM »
Well, going the antihero route does at least give me a mental image of a succubus acting like Batman, which I find absolutely hilarious... xD

If the DM will allow a creature with the Chaotic and Evil subtypes and the Lawful Good alignment, I think I'll go for it.

Offline Keelan

Re: Back by Popular Demand (D&D 3.5 Gestalt)
« Reply #58 on: February 21, 2011, 11:59:47 PM »
Well, going the antihero route does at least give me a mental image of a succubus acting like Batman, which I find absolutely hilarious... xD

If the DM will allow a creature with the Chaotic and Evil subtypes and the Lawful Good alignment, I think I'll go for it.
Hm... Batman always struck me as Chaotic Good instead...

Anyway, if it helps the matter, his is a WotC crafted Succubus Paladin to add credit to the cause!  http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fc/20050824a

Offline Kunoichi

Re: Back by Popular Demand (D&D 3.5 Gestalt)
« Reply #59 on: February 22, 2011, 12:02:34 AM »
Nope, he's definitely lawful.  He has a strict code of ethics and morals which he holds to, no matter what.

I often see him put up as the perfect example of how a Lawful Good Rogue or Paladin/Rogue would act, believe it or not. ^^;

Offline NicciKotor

Re: Back by Popular Demand (D&D 3.5 Gestalt)
« Reply #60 on: February 22, 2011, 12:06:01 AM »
Cleric/rogue is another fun combo for gestalt as well.

Offline Kunoichi

Re: Back by Popular Demand (D&D 3.5 Gestalt)
« Reply #61 on: February 22, 2011, 12:16:22 AM »
Hmm.  +8 racial to Spot and Listen...

Well, the lookout position is now covered. ;D Of course, Telepathy out to 100 ft means I could cover that via Mindsight, as well.

Offline Videospirit

Re: Back by Popular Demand (D&D 3.5 Gestalt)
« Reply #62 on: February 22, 2011, 12:24:38 AM »
Well I'm going to bed, maybe this will have started when I finally wake up.

Offline Kunoichi

Re: Back by Popular Demand (D&D 3.5 Gestalt)
« Reply #63 on: February 22, 2011, 12:36:36 AM »
*is working on a character sheet right now*

And the best part is, the Mask of Lies even fits the character concept perfectly! ^^ Every superhero needs a mask, after all.

Offline DGblitz

Re: Back by Popular Demand (D&D 3.5 Gestalt)
« Reply #64 on: February 22, 2011, 12:38:50 AM »
At another player's suggestion, the fighter/rogue has been redone, much better now.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2011, 12:44:11 AM by DGblitz »

Offline NicciKotor

Re: Back by Popular Demand (D&D 3.5 Gestalt)
« Reply #65 on: February 22, 2011, 12:50:15 AM »
*is working on a character sheet right now*

And the best part is, the Mask of Lies even fits the character concept perfectly! ^^ Every superhero needs a mask, after all.

You could solo the rest of the party and still win. Which is why I am still advocating for savage species progression.

Offline Kunoichi

Re: Back by Popular Demand (D&D 3.5 Gestalt)
« Reply #66 on: February 22, 2011, 01:03:35 AM »
Only under the same conditions that a well-built Wizard or Sorcerer could at these levels.  As far as actual party dynamics go, I imagine I'll slide rather easily into the debuffer/face/lookout roles, but will want to stay far away from the front lines.  And when I level up and add in the abilities from Fiend of Possession, I'll be able to add buffing to the areas where I can contribute, via providing high-powered magic weapons or armor to another party member, or granting said party member a bonus to a stat of their choice.

Ultimately, I don't really expect to steal the show unless circumstances force me to play extremely intelligently, just to survive.

Offline NicciKotor

Re: Back by Popular Demand (D&D 3.5 Gestalt)
« Reply #67 on: February 22, 2011, 01:33:15 AM »
Only under the same conditions that a well-built Wizard or Sorcerer could at these levels.  As far as actual party dynamics go, I imagine I'll slide rather easily into the debuffer/face/lookout roles, but will want to stay far away from the front lines.  And when I level up and add in the abilities from Fiend of Possession, I'll be able to add buffing to the areas where I can contribute, via providing high-powered magic weapons or armor to another party member, or granting said party member a bonus to a stat of their choice.

Ultimately, I don't really expect to steal the show unless circumstances force me to play extremely intelligently, just to survive.

You don't even need to get into a fight in the first place. At will suggestion at DC 25 will save would wreck the entire party before they could even half your hp. With flying and DR 10/cold iron or good, you could still take out the entire party, easy. You don't have to win by beating people up, you can just take them out of combat with suggestion and be done with it.

Having an essential 12th level character does not equate to level 6 gestalt.




Offline Kunoichi

Re: Back by Popular Demand (D&D 3.5 Gestalt)
« Reply #68 on: February 22, 2011, 01:53:59 AM »
That doesn't come from ordinary Succubi being ECL 12, though.  It comes from the +16 to Charisma that Succubi get, and the Savage Species racial progression would still have an absurdly-high +10 to Charisma at ECL 6.

My character would still have a DC 22 Suggestion spell-like ability, 21 Detect Thoughts, 23 Charm Monster...

It wouldn't really solve the problem, you see?  Especially since I'd probably be adding levels of Bard or Sorcerer onto the other side to double-dip on that ridiculous Charisma score.

Additionally, the fact that I'd be capable of beating the entire party in a fight doesn't necessarily mean that there'll be problems.  For starters, I don't think it's very likely that I'll have the entire party trying to kill me in the first place.  I certainly don't plan to act like an abusive jerk towards my fellow players, or anything like that.

Offline Kunoichi

Re: Back by Popular Demand (D&D 3.5 Gestalt)
« Reply #69 on: February 22, 2011, 03:07:42 AM »
So, I've been thinking over my feat choices, and I'm debating going for a fear-based build, in keeping with my general concept.  However, the most useful feat combo for fear-based builds is to combine Imperious Command with this Forgotten Realms regional feat called Dreadful Wrath.

Obviously, I'd need DM approval to be able to take it, and aside from that, there's the question of whether or not I'd be able to trigger the Frightful Presence with a casting of a spell-like ability, as well, but if both of those would be allowed, it would definitely help fit the character concept I've come up with...


Edit: Well, I've got a basic build finished, though the feats chosen will likely change depending on the answer given to the above question.

Flicker
Female Lawful Good Succubus Outsider HD//Succubus LA, Level 6, Init +2, HP 45/45, DR 10/Good or Cold Iron, Speed 30 ft
AC 21, Touch 12, Flat-footed 19, Fort +9, Ref +8, Will +8, Base Attack Bonus 6   
 (+2 Dex, +9 Natural)
Abilities Str 12, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 20, Wis 14, Cha 35
Condition None
« Last Edit: February 22, 2011, 05:36:26 AM by Kunoichi »

Offline ulthakptahTopic starter

Re: Back by Popular Demand (D&D 3.5 Gestalt)
« Reply #70 on: February 22, 2011, 11:28:08 AM »
I would say that Dreadful Wrath can be used with a spell-like ability, but you don't meet the prerequisites for it. Also the feats can't really be combined, because Imperious Command only works when you demoralize a foe. Which is when you make an intimidate check to make them shaken.

I just brushed over your sheet and it looks fine. Touch ac of 12 and 45 hp is easy enough to kill.

Offline Kunoichi

Re: Back by Popular Demand (D&D 3.5 Gestalt)
« Reply #71 on: February 22, 2011, 05:29:37 PM »
I was basically thinking of using Dreadful Wrath one round, and then demoralizing the next.  Since fear effects stack and last the duration of the longest active effect, enemies would either be left cowering for five rounds, or else would cower for one round and then be frightened for four.

The fact that I don't qualify is why I was specifically asking to use it anyway...  But since you say no, I'll just have to look for an alternative.

Edit: ...And now I have the sudden, bizarre urge to take Leadership, in order to get a sidekick.  I'd have to figure out a good sidekick to have though...
« Last Edit: February 22, 2011, 05:36:51 PM by Kunoichi »

Offline ulthakptahTopic starter

Re: Back by Popular Demand (D&D 3.5 Gestalt)
« Reply #72 on: February 22, 2011, 05:35:54 PM »
I'm pretty sure that part about it lasting the duration of the longest active effect is wrong. I think it works like once one of the fear effects wears off it just goes down to the amount of fears caused by the other effects.

Anyway I'm going to be start to write the opening post. It may take a while because I'm lazy, but if you were hoping to get in at the last moment your time is running out.

Offline Kunoichi

Re: Back by Popular Demand (D&D 3.5 Gestalt)
« Reply #73 on: February 22, 2011, 05:42:49 PM »
No, that's definitely how it works.  It's right in the Rules Compendium.  The worst stage of fear lasts until all the effects causing the fear expire.  It's why fear effects can be so powerful when you aren't facing enemies who are immune to it.

*will have her character finished very, very soon*

Offline ulthakptahTopic starter

Re: Back by Popular Demand (D&D 3.5 Gestalt)
« Reply #74 on: February 22, 2011, 05:47:30 PM »
Mwahahaha, that's a good thing to know.