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Author Topic: Scott Walker, Union Buster  (Read 26825 times)

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Offline Avi

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Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #75 on: February 23, 2011, 10:18:49 AM »
And now, for something completely different!

Fox News Deliberately (or not) Reverses Poll on Collective Bargaining

Seriously, whether this was intentional or not, someone in the fact-checking department effed up.  Under-funding there, perhaps?

Offline ValerianTopic starter

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #76 on: February 23, 2011, 11:38:42 AM »
More on the utilities scheme and the Koch brothers*:

http://prof77.wordpress.com/2011/02/22/the-scam-in-wisconsin/

It's really rather clever, in a way.  First Walker tried to say it was all about the unions refusing to pay their fair share.  Then the majority started to realize that the money wasn't at issue, it was collective bargaining.  So on to the second layer, about the excessive power of the unions** and how they want a stranglehold on government.

Now maybe people will start noticing the energy utilities mess, and then I'm not sure what Walker, Koch, Koch, and Co. will use as a distraction... though the recall stuff is probably useful for that.

Both sides are clamoring for recalls, and bizarrely, it's a group in Utah  (the American Recall Coalition, apparently created for the occasion) that's thrown the first official punch.  (Why they're choosing to mess with Wisconsin politics I don't know, but apparently it's allowable.) They've filed paperwork to recall eight of the 14 Democrats currently hiding to prevent the senate quorum, the other six not yet being eligible for recall.  They have 60 days to get enough signatures to force a recall vote, about 16,000 per senator.

Interestingly, though the man arranging the recall petitions (Dan Baltes) insists he's acting only as a private individual and not because of party affiliations, he's also a known Republican activist and Executive Director of a group called Americans Against Immigration Amnesty (AAIA).  His name also appeared in connection with an attempt to recall Arizona sheriff Clarence Dupnik after the shooting there this past January.

Note that a recall vote only arranges for another popular vote in the appropriate district to determine if the official in question should or should not be removed from office.  (I'm learning things from all this research.  Heh.)  Recall elections, historically, succeed only under specific circumstances.

Quote
In addition, recalls of state legislators are a relative rarity. I've documented only 20 recall elections involving state legislators in the country since the first state adopted the recall for state-level officials in 1908. Of those, 13 resulted in removal.

Most recalls are on the local level, and for a good reason -- there is less partisanship based around municipal offices than around the state legislature.

At the state level, voters are not likely to switch sides so easily.

...

[W]hen a recall effort seems to be nakedly political, as it appears to be in Wisconsin, voters tend to side with the candidate that they first elected.

In 2008, California Democrats tried to recall Republican state Sen. Jeff Denham in order to gain a veto-proof two-thirds majority in the Senate. This recall, which took place on a primary day, faced heavy criticism for being a pure political power play and failed.

So in spite of my jokes about ending up with an entirely new state senate, the odds are actually against that, regardless of whether or not either side's recall efforts actually lead to any recall votes.

**currently being discussed in more detail here.
*currently being discussed in more detail here.



As for Fox News, they've also had other troubles.

http://mediamatters.org/research/201102220006

Quote
Protesters Shout "Fox Lies" During Live Report From WI Capitol. On the February 18 edition of Your World, protesters chanted "Fox lies" during correspondent Jeff Flock's live report on the labor protests from the Wisconsin Capitol building. During the segment, guest host Chris Cotter stated, "Well, I'll tell you, Jeff, those folks protesting Fox -- I'm wondering if they would prefer a state-run television network providing all the coverage." [Fox News, Your World, 2/18/11]

Protesters Interrupt Live Fox Interview With Chants Of "Tell The Truth." On the February 21 edition of Your World, labor protesters in Madison interrupted guest host Stuart Varney's live interview with Brett Healy of the conservative MacIver Institute. Varney later interviewed Healy via telephone while footage of a protester holding a sign saying, "Fox News will lie about this," aired.

Offline Trieste

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Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #77 on: February 23, 2011, 11:43:06 AM »
Both sides are clamoring for recalls, and bizarrely, it's a group in Utah  (the American Recall Coalition, apparently created for the occasion) that's thrown the first official punch.  (Why they're choosing to mess with Wisconsin politics I don't know, but apparently it's allowable.) They've filed paperwork to recall eight of the 14 Democrats currently hiding to prevent the senate quorum, the other six not yet being eligible for recall.  They have 60 days to get enough signatures to force a recall vote, about 16,000 per senator.

Wouldn't happen to be a certain conservative church in Utah that likes to mess with other states' politics, would it? >.>

Offline ValerianTopic starter

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #78 on: February 23, 2011, 12:04:00 PM »
Not that I've found, no.  I've been hunting for some sort of official list of members or at least numbers for either organization, but no such luck there.  He's the only person ever mentioned as a spokesperson for either group, so...

Online Callie Del Noire

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #79 on: February 23, 2011, 01:28:40 PM »
I notice when the Koch's are involved the 'think tanks' tend to be less than transparent and their 'findings' are always questionable as they don't easily (or happily) disclose their methods of research/polling methods/ect.


Offline ValerianTopic starter

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #80 on: February 23, 2011, 01:40:49 PM »
Correction: Apparently it's the American Patriot Recall Coalition, not just the American Recall Coalition, as my first source indicated.  It's still brand-new, however.  Their Facebook page got its first "like" this past Sunday, and they have 45 likes so far.  So business is not exactly booming for them.

Also, I think I have an idea as to how this guy can actually file the paperwork, even though he's a resident of Utah (though so far it's only been submitted electronically, from what I understand, and paper copies are still required).  On that same Facebook page, when someone told him he wasn't welcome in Wisconsin, he mentions going back there regularly to visit family.  The laws for a recall in the state of Wisconsin only require the person filing to have been a resident of the state for 10 days.  So unless there's some other fine-print clause that they also have to be a homeowner, renter, or some such, if he has recently spent at least 10 days there, he's apparently eligible to do the filing.

I don't expect a whole lot to come of this, but it still annoys me that he can legally meddle in this.  :P

Online Callie Del Noire

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #81 on: February 23, 2011, 01:46:53 PM »
One good thing that might come out of this is that the Koch's have finally come out from under a rock so to speak.

Offline ValerianTopic starter

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #82 on: February 23, 2011, 02:33:50 PM »
Yeah, the more scrutiny there is on them, the more they'll behave, hopefully; though I'm not convinced they'll bother to care about public opinion.



I'm kind of sorry I found this story:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/weigel/archive/2011/02/23/urging-violence-on-protesters-still-a-bad-career-move-for-the-most-part.aspx
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41736625/ns/us_news-life/

Quote
On Saturday night, Mother Jones staffers tweeted that a source had told them Wisconsin riot police were preparing to clear out demonstrators from the Wisconsin capitol building something that didn't end up happening.

In response to that post, user JCCentCom tweeted "Use live ammunition." He went on to tweet: "against thugs physically threatening legally-elected state legislators & governor? You're damn right I advocate deadly force."

Weinstein said only later did he find out that JCCentCom was the Twitter user name for [Jeffrey] Cox, one of more than 140 attorneys in the Indiana Attorney General's Office. Weinstein wrote that Cox has expressed similar contempt for political opponents on his personal blog, Pro Cynic, which has since been disabled.

Weinstein said Mother Jones sent an e-mail to Cox's work address, asking if the Twitter and blog comments were his, and if he could provide context for some of them. According to Weinstein, Cox responded from a personal e-mail address: "For 'context?' Or to silence me? All my comments on twitter & my blog are my own and no one else's. And I can defend them all."

He's reportedly been fired, as of about an hour ago.  Gah.

Offline Kuroneko

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #83 on: February 23, 2011, 03:39:20 PM »
Thought you all might find this interesting:

*snip* - AP has been suing websites for copying their material, please link to an article and quote parts of it.
-Vek

« Last Edit: February 23, 2011, 03:43:37 PM by Vekseid »

Offline Revolverman

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #84 on: February 23, 2011, 06:22:53 PM »
Yeah, the more scrutiny there is on them, the more they'll behave, hopefully; though I'm not convinced they'll bother to care about public opinion.



I'm kind of sorry I found this story:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/weigel/archive/2011/02/23/urging-violence-on-protesters-still-a-bad-career-move-for-the-most-part.aspx
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41736625/ns/us_news-life/

He's reportedly been fired, as of about an hour ago.  Gah.

So, hes Wisconsin's Gadhafi.

Offline Kuroneko

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #85 on: February 23, 2011, 06:39:39 PM »
Thought you all might find this interesting:

*snip* - AP has been suing websites for copying their material, please link to an article and quote parts of it.
-Vek


My apoligies, Vek.  It was emailed to me by the teacher's union.  Here's a link - http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20110223/GPG0101/110223066/Walker-takes-prank-call-from-liberal-blogger

Basically, Walker was crank called today by someone pretending to be one of the Koch brothers, who got the governor to admit to some fairly incriminating things.  The call was recorded, and it's all over the news now.  Walker was live on TV trying to defend his words. 
« Last Edit: February 23, 2011, 06:42:22 PM by Kuroneko »

Offline Oniya

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Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #86 on: February 24, 2011, 02:36:55 AM »
Looks like my state is getting into the action, too. 

http://www.fox8.com/news/wjw-local-senators-against-senate-bill-5-txt,0,147558.story

So far, it looks like they've just gone as far as preventing public servants from striking.  (Somebody pointed out that without collective bargaining, state employees would have to resort to suing the state to settle grievances, which could cost the government more than the bill purports to 'save'.)

Offline ValerianTopic starter

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #87 on: February 24, 2011, 08:31:36 AM »
I wish someone around here would think of that suing angle.  Y'know, someone who Walker might actually listen to.  :P


The Democrats in the Assembly, in a further effort to stop the bill from barreling into law as is, have introduced somewhere around 100 possible amendments to the bill over the last 40+ hour session.  All 100 have been summarily shot down by Republican votes.  (In the Assembly, the Republicans have the necessary voting quorum for fiscal bills all by themselves.)  There's talk of a vote by noon today, since I think they want to get it over with before everyone in the Assembly room falls into a coma from lack of sleep.  :P

Thanks to that prank phone call, there's more speculation that the Republicans might try to get part of the bill through the Senate by removing the parts that relate to finance.  A non-finance related bill requires only a quorum of 17, fewer than the 19 Republicans currently there.  Since Walker's been screaming that it all relates to balancing the budget, though, and that's why he won't change any of it, I'm not sure how he'll work that, exactly...

Online Callie Del Noire

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #88 on: February 24, 2011, 02:43:54 PM »
Does Walker have a veto? I know that some states don't give it to the Governor. NC has only had it for a few terms, and the biggest crook in the Governor's house in NC history used it quite effectively. (the right Honorable Mike Easely.. master of Payola and plea bargains)

Offline ValerianTopic starter

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #89 on: February 24, 2011, 02:54:16 PM »
He does have a veto, yes.  Unfortunately, Wisconsin governors (of any party) have had a tradition of abusing their veto power (see Frankenstein veto) by using it to snip out words and phrases they don't like, in some cases completely changing the intent of the bill.  The loophole was tightened up a little a couple of years ago, but it's still an option, sadly.  So theoretically, Walker could actually let them make all sorts of changes, then just veto the bill back into what he originally wanted.  It wouldn't help his image any, but then, he doesn't seem too concerned about that.

Online Callie Del Noire

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #90 on: February 24, 2011, 03:12:57 PM »
He has to realize that with THIS much scrutiny that someone will be looking into his affairs. Someone like a journalist or a federal investigator.

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Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #91 on: February 24, 2011, 03:30:55 PM »
I'm still boggled by the fact that legislators are failing to grasp a very clear aspect of the Constitution:

(Bold for my own emphasis.)
Quote
Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

There's no disclaimer that states, "but not if the government is your boss."


The loss of collective rights is the loss of individual rights.  You can't buy my rights from me, even if you do sign my paychecks.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2011, 03:32:01 PM by Star Safyre »

Offline ValerianTopic starter

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #92 on: February 24, 2011, 03:45:51 PM »
Well, Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW) has asked the Wisconsin Government Accountability Board to start an investigation over whether or not Walker violated state law  by sending troopers after Matt Miller, the Democratic Senate leader.  The state constitution limits the governor's ability to call on state troopers to times of civil unrest, or if there are threats to people on state property or to the state property itself.  In other words, unless he thought Miller was intending to destroy public property, for example, Walker had no business sending state troopers anywhere.

A former Wisconsin attorney general has stated that the "Koch" phone conversation indicated several potential ethics violations that should be looked into.

One Wisconsin Now, which is a liberal activist group, has requested all the available records of meetings between Walker and the Koch brothers' head lobbyist in Wisconsin.

I imagine there are more (or at least will be more), but that's what I found with a quick search.


There's still no response to the police chief's or the mayor's request for more information about the 'infiltrators' plan, by the way.  Both of them have emphasized how proud they are of the way the protesters have conducted themselves.  The mayor even mentioned that the grounds outside the capitol building are actually tidier now than they usually are.

One of the protest signs I've liked best is the one that says. "Sorry, Fox, there's no violence here!"

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Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #93 on: February 24, 2011, 05:14:01 PM »
I'm waiting for someone to show up with

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
Walker gonna give you up.
Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
Walker gonna let you down.
Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
Walker gonna run around and desert you.
Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
Walker gonna make you cry.
Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
Walker gonna say 'Goodbye'.
Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
Walker gonna tell a lie and hurt you.

Offline ValerianTopic starter

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #94 on: February 25, 2011, 08:11:19 AM »
Well, after 60 hours of debate, the bill has passed the Assembly, as of 1:00 am.  There were still 15 Democratic members waiting their turn to speak, and the vote was pushed through so quickly and haphazardly that of the 99 members, 28 of them didn't even get the chance to cast a vote.  Of those 28, 25 were Democrats.  The bill passed 51-17.  Republicans packed up and scurried away while Democrats shouted "Shame!"  An investigation is supposed to happen, to look into whether or not the vote was legal.

If it is, the bill now goes to the Senate, though of course it can't be voted on there at the moment.  It also can't be amended any further at this point, so even if and when a vote happens, it will have to be voted on exactly as it is.

The bright spot (such as it is) is that four Republicans did break ranks and voted against it.


Interestingly, one of the "non-renewal" slips that Walker had sent out to 1,500 public employees this week -- basically early warnings that the recipient might be laid off -- went to Lisa Fitzgerald, a school counselor, who also happens to be the wife of Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald.

Offline Zakharra

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #95 on: February 25, 2011, 09:15:05 AM »
 Gods politicians can be so damned stupid!  /facepalm   It's this sort of tactics that sends the Right into a frothing anger when the Democrats do it.  Idiots.

Offline ValerianTopic starter

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #96 on: February 25, 2011, 09:40:48 AM »
There were only 96 of the 99 members of the Assembly present, which explains the discrepancy I just noticed in the numbers above.  I couldn't discover who those three were, but one of the 28 who didn't get to vote was also the only Independent in the Assembly.  He used to be a Democrat, so there was some speculation that he would have sided with the Democrats in this vote.  Y'know, if he'd gotten the chance to vote.  :P

Offline Avi

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Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #97 on: February 25, 2011, 09:59:02 AM »
Sheesh... with the way Republicans rapid-fired the vote again, like they tried to do several days ago, one would think that they're frightened of Democrats' getting their opinions out there.

@ Zakharra:  Exactly, could you imagine Rush Limbaugh and company's freak outs over Democrats pulling something similar to this?  When Democrats do this, it's slimy and sneaky, but when Republicans do, it's courageous and strong-willed.  *rolls eyes*

Offline Zakharra

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #98 on: February 25, 2011, 02:11:45 PM »
Sheesh... with the way Republicans rapid-fired the vote again, like they tried to do several days ago, one would think that they're frightened of Democrats' getting their opinions out there.

@ Zakharra:  Exactly, could you imagine Rush Limbaugh and company's freak outs over Democrats pulling something similar to this?  When Democrats do this, it's slimy and sneaky, but when Republicans do, it's courageous and strong-willed.  *rolls eyes*

 *nod*  I am for calling both sides out when they pull crap like this. I am mostly conservative in a lot of things, but this crap the supposedly conservative party is pulling definitely sickens me. Both side are acting more like spoiled children or mobsters than civilized and mature people and need to be hit alongside the head with a real big 2x4. THen thrown out of office.  It's idiots like them that make me support term limits.

Offline itsbeenfun2000

Re: Scott Walker, Union Buster
« Reply #99 on: February 27, 2011, 10:10:26 AM »
At least the protesters have been civil in the last two weeks. Hardly any arrests and even when counter protesters came in last week they were cordial to each other. Well as cordial as one could expect. They shook hands and didn't attack.